It's ok to speak out.

[mmonk]

I'm Catholic (albeit an agnostic one). Let me give you a perspective our parish priest gave on Palm sunday during his homily. He mentioned the spiritual, "were you there when they crucified my Lord?". Then he went on to explain that in attendance at Jesus's cruxificion, the people were there, his followers were there, the religious authorities were there, the puppet government was there, the overseer from the empire was there (Roman pro-consul). Yet out of the whole group, no one stopped the execution or exclaimed it was wrong. He then likened it to things going on today (in reference to the American citizens today, the religious right including some catholic hierarchy, the government (perpetrating wrong doing), and no one is speaking out that things are wrong. He then said it was our duty to speak out against discrimination (including GLBT and also other religious), war, poverty and the like. Then he concluded, "where were you when they crucufied my Lord?". While some comments do bother me since the passing of the Holy father, silence is complicity to any wrongs.

[rodeodance]

1. back then, you would crucified, now you are demonized. One physical

pain, the other (now) psychological, economic pain.

[Warpy]

2. Thanks, but out of respect for Catholics who post here

I'll hold my fire during the two week period of mourning.

They've suffered a loss, and I respect their feelings.

It's still open season on the living, though.

[SheilaT]

3. I'm with you.

While I know the rule about not speaking unkindly of the dead, it's simply wrong to paint JPII as some kind of saint who did nothing but wonderful things as Pope.

Au contraire. He actively opposed birth control. Refused to give women any kind of larger role in the church. Never backed the priests in South and Central America who stood up against those fascists dictatorships. It's like only his personal struggle against Communism ever mattered, never mind anyone else, or any other down-trodden people.

I was raised Catholic myself, although long ago left the church. And yes, I can criticize the man's clear failings. The truly sad thing about his passing, in my opinion, is that because the man had 25 years to stack the College of Cardinals, there's absolutely no hope of a less conservative pope next time around.

[Tansy_Gold]

6. Thank you, Sheila, for looking to the future

as well as the past.

I'm not and never have been Roman Catholic, but my collapsed Catholic friends have said the same thing you have: JP2 didn't change anything and set the stage to make sure nothing changes in the future either.

[H2O Man]

4. "NIgger"

In his autobiography (Nigger) Dick Gregory quotes from one of his most beautiful and moving speeches, which dealt with "where were you when they crucified the Lord?"

Dick had been in jail in Selma, and then when he was bailed out, he preached the message at a local church.

"It's amazing how we come to this church every Sunday and cry over the crucifiction of Christ, and we cry over these things that are going on around and among us. If He was here now, and saw these things, He would cry. And He would take those nails again. For us, for this problem. ....

"So it's coming down to this. You have to commit. You're going through the same thing today that folks went through when the Lord was crucified. 'Who else is with this Christ,' the Romans asked. And everyone just stood there. And prayed silently. And they went back and said, 'I prayed.' No, sister, I didn't even see your lips moving.

"Were you there when they crucified the Lord? It's a nice song to sing. But this time, you have an opportunity to be there. Sure would be a heck of a thing, twenty, thirty years from now, when they're singing a song about these days, and your grandkids and great grandkids can stand up and say, 'Yeah, baby, he was there, my grandfather was there!' And you can nod your head and say, 'Yeah, I was there.'

"I'd like to tell you a story before I leave. I talked to the father of one of those kids who died in that church in Birmingham. He said to me, "You know, Gregory, my daughter begged me to let her demonstyrate, and I told her no. I told her she was too young. And she looked me in the eye, and she said, "Then you do it, Daddy." '...
These kids in Selma aren't doing anything just for themselves. There's nothing selfish about what they're doing here. .... (They're) not saying, 'Let's stand on rooftops and throw bricks .... (or) Let's get some butcher knives and some guns and make them pay for what they've done.' (They're saying,)"We want what you said belongs to us. You have a constitution ... that hasn't worked for anyone but you.' .... For some reason God has put in your hands the salvation of not just America -- this thing is bigger than just this country -- but the salvation of the whole world ... Freddom will run all over this town. But you have to get behind (these kids). Get behind your kids in this town. " (pages 199-205)

[fooj]

5. The Pope told the people of Poland to speak out...

and they are no longer under communist rule! It takes courage. Can you imagine telling the Russians that if they rolled tanks into your homeland you would stand shoulder to shoulder with your countrymen? Now, that's a TRUE LEADER! What an example!

Peace!

[mattclearing]

7. Fear of a vengeful government can silence a lot of people.

Think of those purged CIA analysts. What do you think could keep them from talking?