Need help with a Freeper smack-down

[Kingshakabobo]

Here's what was sent. My reply is below. It's a work in progress. I am at work and trying to pen my response while pissed off. I have smacked this guy down several times but he comes back for more......

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner.
The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we
pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men-the poorest-would pay nothing;
The fifth would pay $1:
The sixth would pay $3;
The seventh $7;
The eighth $12;
The ninth $18.
The tenth man-the richest-would pay $59.
That's what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant
every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement-until one day, the
owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce
the cost of your daily meal by $20."

So now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay
their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.
But what about the other six-the paying customers?

How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his
"fair share?"

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth
man would end up being *paid* to eat their meal.

So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the
amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing,
the sixth pitched in $2,
the seventh paid $5,
the eighth paid $9,
the ninth paid $12,
leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59.

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man.

He pointed to the tenth. "But he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too.
It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man.
"Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the
breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and
ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered
something important. They were $52 short!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how
the tax system works.

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax
reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not
show up at the table anymore.

Unfortunately, Liberals cannot grasp this straight-forward logic!


My response (in progress):

Real simple isn't it. Simple scenarios for simple minds. Too bad our economy and our tax system isn't that simple.

So you are saying that this scenario is OK with you? What are you a communist? Why should the poor person get a break at all? Screw him. Why do you hate America?

I must have missed the part where the restaurant owner came out with the twenty dollar bill. Last time I checked we are running record deficits during a time of war. Last time I checked we have a crumbling infrastructure and crumbling schools. Last time I checked homeland security is underfunded and most of the containers that enter this country go un-inspected. Last time I checked a significant number of our armed services are on food stamps. Last time I checked Bush cut VA benefits.

Here's the real scenario:

The 8th, 9th, and 10th guy pulled the restaurant owner aside while the other seven suckers weren't looking and told him: Hey you give us a $20 dollar break on the bill but don't worry about it cause we are going to put it on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7's credit card (deficit)and they will be too stupid to figure it out. Besides, we'll throw a small amount to 5, 6 and seven and lie to the that it is a higher amount. Don't worry, they are pretty dim witted and believe what they are told(see above scenario). Anyway you'll make it up from them in other ways in service cuts and higher fees.

[Warpy]

1. "FICA, fuckhead!"

That's the only thing you need to say. 40% of every poor and middle class worker's FICA payment gets sucked into the general fund and gets used just like income taxes. If your witless freeper friend ever added this into his numbers, he'd see that the poor and the middle class are shouldering most of the burden of government, while the rich (who reap the most benefit) pay relatively little.

They are never honest about this stuff because they never admit what happens to FICA contributions and how much those overpayments have masked the true cost of tax cuts to the obscenely rich and the corporate.

[dcfirefighter]

2. Don't forget this angle

though your cause is probably hopeless:

Ten men are to eat dinner at a buffet restauraunt.
The two first to arrive claim put their coats and jackets and other stuff all over the chairs in the restaraunt, claiming them as their own (ownership of land). They then stand at the beginning of the buffet line, and charge an entrance fee. (ownership of natural resources).

When the bill comes, they pay it like taxes, with the first four eating free....

[Kota]

3. Great response.

[seabeyond]

4. why can freepers never, nevah use their own words

they always has to argue with someone else's format emails. i have never heard a single freeper actually discuss a subject just send out all this dribble

[trekbiker]

5. where's the 10th man gonna go??

the 10th man gets fed up and decides not to show up. He decides the USA is unfair and moves to another country like Russia where his share (tax) is much much lower. Then he decides to force the restaurant owner out of business, take it over and eat for free. But then the Russian president beats the shit out of him, takes away ALL his money and locks him up forever.

the end

or....

the 10th man gets pissed at how "unfair" the system is and buys a company that builds electronic voting machines that elect his hand picked stooge for president who then changes the laws so that the 10th man can eat for less. But the restaurant owner who is forced to feed the 10th man for less passes his costs onto the form of a loan (deficits). When the loan comes due the first four men's families hit the streets homeless and starving. They march down to the 10th man's mansion and kill him.

the end

[liberal43110]

6. Bad analogy

The real problem with that scenario is that civilized society is more complex than simply divvying up a restaurant bill. Taxes are the price we pay for a civil society.

We often think of the "benefits" of taxes in overly simplistic terms: especially entitlement programs like cash assistance, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security.

But think of all the vast things that taxes do to create a civil society, including:

create the most sophisticated financial and capital markets in the world,
subsidize vast international transporation and trade industries,
regulate food and drug industries to keep our food and medicine safe,
protect us all with police and fire protection
regulate a vast global insurance industry

These are things that we all, as a society, benefit from. Indeed, the wealthiest benefit from these MORE than the poor.

[Kingshakabobo]

8. Oooh good one. n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

9. My response.

Too bad our economy isn’t that simple.

Oh how I miss working with my favorite right wing nut-job. I DO wish you would come up with something on your own instead of this crappy simplistic spam.

I must have missed the part where the restaurant owner came out with the twenty dollar bill because THERE IS NO TWENTY DOLLAR BILL. Last time I checked, we are running record deficits during a time of war. Last time I checked, we have a crumbling infrastructure (bridges and roads) and public schools are in shambles. Last time I checked, homeland security is under funded and most of the containers that enter this country go un-inspected. Last time I checked, we don’t have the resources to protect chemical plants and nuclear plants. Last time I checked, the transportation security administration was under funded and laying off inspectors. Last time I checked, a significant number of our armed services were on food stamps. Last time I checked, Bush cut VA benefits for veterans due to budget constraints (hey, but at least they have their “support the troops magnets” to fall back on).

Here's the real scenario:

The 8th, 9th, and 10th guy pulled the restaurant owner aside while the other seven suckers weren't looking and told him (while stuffing a “tip” in his pocket):

Hey you give us a $20 dollar break on the bill but don't worry about it cause we are going to put that same $20 dollars on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7's credit card (national deficit)and they will be too stupid to figure it out. Besides, we'll throw a small amount to 5, 6 and 7 and lie to them that it is a higher amount. You see, all you have to do is tell a little fib. We’ll “average” the refund over 10 people and tell them that they are all getting “an average” of 2 dollars back per person when in fact I’ll be the one getting most of the money and they’ll get peanuts. That’s how we get them to vote for this plan. Don't worry, they are pretty dim witted and believe what they are told and won’t use any critical thinking of their own. They’ll mostly get their info from spam emails, Rush and Fox News.

Don’t worry about 1 through 4. They won’t get off unscathed because we always hit them with a FICA tax. It’s a beautiful thing because I only pay this tax on a small portion of my income while they pay it on 100% of their income. It’s called a regressive tax but don’t worry, “regressive” is a big word and most people won’t figure it out. My favorite part is, we’ll take money (about 40%) out of this FICA trust fund and use it for the general fund thereby paying my tab with it. Only in America. Later, we’ll tell them the trust fund is gone- So sorry Charlie.

Anyway, you'll make it up from them in other ways in the form of service cuts and higher fees (higher interest rates, state taxes, local taxes property taxes, fees etc.) because, after all, we know it takes a certain amount of money to run your ‘restaurant’ every month.

Don’t worry, if anyone starts complaining about the cost of running our “restaurant” every month because we’ll blame it on “big government”. Now, if needed, we’ll call up some images of “lazy black welfare queens” and blame “big government” on them.

Don’t worry, they won’t equate “big government” with civilized society. Most of them will have forgotten all that they benefited from “big government”. You know, like public schools, roads, health/hospitals and the things that taxes and “big government” do to create a civil society, including:

1.Create and regulate the most sophisticated financial and capital markets in the world.
2. Subsidize vast international transportation and trade industries.
3. Regulate food and drug industries to keep our food and medicine safe
4. Protect us all with police/FBI Homeland security and fire protection
5. Regulate a vast global insurance industry
6. Bridges and roads
7. Hospitals.
8. Schools and universities.
9. Fannie Mae
10. Student loans
11. Military defense
12. Social security so old people don’t eat cat food
13. Medicare so old people can get medical care

Don’t worry they wont realize these are things that we all, as a society, benefit from. Indeed, the wealthiest benefit from these MORE than the poor.

Don’t worry. We’ll boil it down to quick little sound-bites and easy to read allegories as most people tend to not analyze public policy and/or use critical thinking.

It’s all good.

[EVDebs]

7. Just have the freeper read one book Perfectly Legal

Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich - and Cheat Everybody Else
by David Cay Johnston.

He'll find chapters 7 and 8 especially enlightening...may even meltdown and become a Democrat !