Boy suspended from school for wearing makeup and lipstick

[question everything]

Inland Valley Daily Bulletin

Boy suspended from school for wearing makeup and lipstick
By Irma Lemus
Staff Writer

Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - SAN BERNARDINO - In what is shaping as a battle between conformity and self-expression, Pacific High School has suspended a ninth-grade boy for wearing lipstick and eye makeup. Officials are calling it a violation of school policy, which they seemed unable to find in writing.

(snip)

The youth said the makeup expresses religious beliefs he shares with his mother, a Wiccan priestess in the neopagan religion based on northern European beliefs in the supernatural.

(snip)

The ACLU's Sun had a different take: "High school is the time where many students are expressing themselves and really finding themselves and so to suspend the student is such a severe punishment it's wrong. It's wrong not only as a legal matter, but it's not good policy."

http://www.dailybulletin.com/Stories/0,1413,203~21481~2813559,00.html#

[Maple]

1. Are they afraid

it makes him look...er...feminine?

The hair can stay, but the make-up has to go?

[Maraya1969]

2. He needs to tone down on the pink a bit

and the black lipstick just isn't going to cut it. Another type of pink would be OK.

Other than that - let him be!


P.S. What would happen if he had his makeup tattooed on?

[tubbacheez]

5. I thought the pink was fine, but the pure black lipstick

didn't match the faded black clothing he wore, so...

CLASH!

:)

[DrDebug]

15. He looks better in blue lipstick with red make up

And a mohawk is so 80s.

I agree with the school, the whole ensemble is just not done.

[in_cog_ni_to]

135. He's color coordinated!

I think he looks silly, but that's just me. I know when I was in high school and wore bell bottoms, hippie tops, had long frizzy WILD hair, people thought I looked silly too. To each his own and they just need to leave him the hell alone!

[jmowreader]

269. Then they'd make him wear makeup to cover the tattooed makeup

It's the Mohawk they're really pissed off about.

I don't normally object to makeup use, but this guy's makeup looks like shit.

[unhappycamper]

3. don't knock it. this could be a i-don't-wanna-get-drafted show stopper n/t

[question everything]

6. From the book of Maxwell Klinger? n/t

[tjwmason]

4. If the school genuinely had a policy it would be different

My school (as is common, even usual in England) had a full uniform (for which I see a number of arguments); but to invoke an unwritten 'policy' is simply partiality.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Right

My alma mater we had a basic simple dress code. You couldn't have anything dirty (like in language and stuff) on your clothes, certain length (to your knees) on skirts for girls and no shorts etc. It's your basic thing. If he goes to a private school it might be different. I don't see anything offensive though. It's just because of his gender. If he was a female there wouldn't be any problem.

[tjwmason]

18. No sure that it's JUST that he's a guy

I went to a boys' school (all make-up and piercings totally banned), but I'd guess that vast pink eye-makeup would have got pupils sent home from the girls' school opposite.

Oh, and a big pink fin of hair would certainly have got me sent home - guys with mustaches were threatened (as in 'shave that by tomorrow or you'll be sent home').

I still have a couple of different school ties around (one of them is really short from when I was a nipper), and possible my blazer badge too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. They have a policy against

dressing in a manner that distracts or disrupts the learning environment. I believe this meets that criteria. I know if he sat in front of me I would have a hard time concentrating in class.

[Chovexani]

214. That's your problem, not his

I find these sorts of policies utterly ridiculous for that very reason, but I suppose if that is the policy then they were within rights to send him home (full disclosure: I'm a goth and have been dressing that way since age 14).

[WI_DEM]

7. oh for crying out loud, let him wear it

he's not hurting anybody else.

[KittyWampus]

8. Is He A Cardinals Fan?

[FreedomAngel82]

9. Oh good grief

I remember people dressing like that before. Once when I was in high school I was going to the bathroom or something during class and I remember seeing a guy wearing a skirt (or a kilt I guess? :shrug:) and he was talking to the assistant principles about his outfit. I'm not sure what happened to him after that. :eyes:

[Technowitch]

11. Wiccan? Hardly.

Self-expression, yes, but to use Wicca as an excuse is a bit of an insult to those of us who follow the faith.

For one thing, 'traditional' Wiccans never had access to Max Factor cosmetics, or that particular shade of livid pink... ;)

For what it's worth, I agree he should have the right to wear whatever the hell he wants. But to claim it's a Wiccan thing? Uh, no.

[tubbacheez]

13. Maybe he and his mom are part of a very eclectic branch.

I never know how narrowly or loosely someone is using the word "Wiccan", so I give folks a huge benefit of the doubt.

[yella_dawg]

172. You didn't know?

You're just so out of touch. The Wiccan Pope decreed a new Universal Dress Code for all Wiccans. You'd better get with it or be excommunicated.


Sorry. I couldn't help it. The idea of a Wiccan "form of dress" is just too weird. Anyone that "eclectic" wouldn't dress the same three days running anyway.

I'm not Wiccan and I'm insulted by the claim. I wonder if this kid even knows what he's talking about.

[Chovexani]

212. I'm Wiccan and I'm not "insulted" by this kid

I'm far more insulted by the notion of Wiccans telling other Wiccans how and how not to practice, and what is and is not "true" Wicca. I thought we left these self-appointed Grand High Poohbahs behind in the '90s (unless Z. Budapest is still around? :evilgrin:).

Who knows, maybe this is part of the trad he and his mom practice. Unusual makeup & dress are not that unheard of. Laurie Cabot used to walk around Salem in goth makeup, dressed like a stereotypical witch to make a political statement (it was also for magickal reasons, too. IIRC she discussed it in Power of the Witch). Hell, anyone who's ever done a spell with a candle has tapped into color magick. Many people dress in specific colors to achieve a particular result or to express a particular idea.

I guess I'm failing to see the outrage here. Maybe I missed the memo that declared makeup & dress style off-limits as a form of spiritual expression. I don't think anyone is trying to claim this or that practice as inherent to the Craft as a whole; this is just something they do. It's not what I do (I save my chitons and sandals for ritual), but I fully support them.

Then again, I dress like a Japanese transvestite most of the time, on purpose even, so I might be a bit biased (it's not for religious reasons though, he's just fabulous!).

[kimchi]

265. There is no Wiccan tenet that says you should have pink hair.

Or wear makeup, so I agree with you.

To all:
And while most Neo-Pagans are very tolerant of just about anything, most of the traditional branches of Wicca are organized and, believe it or not, hierarchical. Of course you could start your own coven and call it Pink Haired Wiccans for Jesus if you wanted. Fundamentally speaking, it wouldn't be Wicca. That is why I call myself a Pagan. Even Wicca has too many rules for me; and I won't be disrespectful to the faith by calling myself Wiccan.

He could be hiding under the "An it harm none, do as thou will" concept. But that really is stretching to make a point. Unless it is one of those occult "secrets" I've never been privy to...

on edit: congrats for being picked for the Mod Squad!

[proud patriot]

12. I take this kids side

if he can't wear make-up than neither can
the girls and female teachers .

Fair is Fair . This is Gender discrimination .

[The Magistrate]

16. A Good Suggestion, Ma'am

It is good to know the high school is operating so well there is nothing else to take up its administration's time than this. The grade-point average must be "B" at least for the school, there must be no assaults, no pregnancies, among the students, no drug use....

[proud patriot]

36. Indeed Sir

:hi:

[yardwork]

238. A model school, no doubt!

:evilgrin:

[JohnLocke]

272. An excellent point...

As usual. :hi: By the way, welcome back to the moderator ranks!

[captain crunch]

14. If he wants to look like an idiot

let him.

[WindRavenX]

17. I think he looks beautiful

JM2C.
No reason why he shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup- I mean, he's not hurting anyone..

[TommyO]

215. Individual, not idiot!

It took me forty years before I started to be comfortable dressing the way I wanted to, not the way society thought I should. Sure, I still wear khakis and a polo-type shirt to work, but outside of work you'll find me in anything from jeans and a tall pair of Wesco engineer boots, to a kilt, to leather.

The kid should be commended, not suspended!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. A poster boy for the need for school uniforms?

A concept that I totally agree with. Schools should be for education rather than narcissism.

[Berserker]

20. Do I like it?

NO but I'm not the one doing it. If he wants to look like that then so be it. Who are we to judge a person because of the way he or she wants to look. I remember growing up in the 60s and how long hair was so fucking bad. When I see people like him I reflect back to my youth and I understand.
School Uniforms?
How about Military Uniforms so we can get them ready for more war. Lets make our kids ALL look alike! Ya thats it. Fuck individuality.
CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM CONFORM

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Bullshit.

Most of the rest of the world requires school uniforms. From Japan to France to South Africa.

I remember the '60s too. I remember being too goddam poor to keep up with the latest fashion requirements of my wealthier peers. There's nothing more conformist than having to look "cool" in High School. All that "expression" is nothing but a happy hunting ground for the merchandisers that make $200 shoes essential to fitting in.

There's nothing to prevent this idiot from dazzling the public for the 20 hours, or so, that he isn't in school.

[Berserker]

39. well Tierra_y_Libertad

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect). Mark Twain
you know him The guy in your avatar.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. And, your point is?

[tjwmason]

204. As a formerly uniformed person

I couldn't agree more.

Cliques, bitchiness, and fashion are far too prevalent; if these can be lessened by uniforms (which I do believe) then what argument is there against them.

[mondo joe]

220. Yes, we wouldn't want to teach kids to DEAL with peer pressure

Better to pretend it doesn't exist, and then send then out into the world.

Best of all, we can later complain about people who can't think for themselves.

[tjwmason]

249. Have you attended a school which has a uniform?

With all due respect, the evidence is very clear that they can be a helpful tool improve discipline &c., and they simply take one concern (which is totally irrelevant to educating children) out of the school.

Spouting fatuous drivel suggesting that this is ignoring peer pressure simply undermines your entire 'argument'.

[mondo joe]

254. Yes, I have. I attended one w/ uniforms, and one w/out

And I think arguments can be made in their favor.

At the same time, I'd prefer to teach my kids to DEAL with peer pressure and the other issues cited rather than simply surrender and resort to uniforms.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

282. The argument is

If you want uniforms then YOU buy them for my child to wear. You want my child that attends PUBLIC school that is funded with the taxes that I PAY to wear a uniform and be like the private schools then I expect you will be providing my child with the other benefits that go along with private school such as a low student to teacher ratio. This school uniform bit is complete bullshit. It's a group of administrators with nothing better to do than to dream up ways to make themselves feel superior. It is not promoting education it is distracting from it. You end up with teachers becoming fashion police and spending their days booting kids out of school instead of focusing on teaching them. If you have students that are blatantly dressing inappropriate then deal with them and leave my kid alone.

[question everything]

I agree

I don't know if baggy pants are still the norm but I remember a few years ago, in a strip mall and there were many young boys with their baggy pants with backpacks and.. really, I felt uneasy. I think that they were high school kids but they could have just as well be gang members.

I think that uniforms, any kind of uniforms, forces one to behave in a certain way. This is why we want nurses to wear their uniforms, and clergy and police officers and fire fighters. And I think that when one wears uniform one posture changes.. there is some responsibility wearing uniforms.

And I agree with you, this eliminates the "peer pressure" to conform, yes, to conform to the most recent fashion fad.

And it should be easier on parents, too, to rebuff requests for more clothes.

And once they are not at school they can wear whatever they want.

[nolabels]

248. Schools are set up to attain multiple goals

Education is just an after thought now-a-days. I would say that control of the population and obedience to authority is now the main goal there.

Of course I may have a skewed perspective, but I would like to point out that there is net result that should be observed.

Btw when the last time you heard someone tell bush or anybody else On High with the government that it's policies SUCK

[jukes]

253. it is NOT narcissistic

to want to express individuality. quashing self-expression in teens is not educating them, it's indoctrination. and that's a major fault of the conservative mindset.

[Snivi Yllom]

260. I agree 100%. Focus on education instead of fashion

nt

[myrna minx]

22. I'm glad I didn't attend High School with some Duer's.

Sheesh. I was a goth girl with pink hair and a nose ring who attended HS in a small a Wisconsin town in the 1980's. Gawd, to some Duer's you would think that I should be banished for looking like an idiot. Geez, the kid is just trying to express himself. I suppose he should just join the Old Navy brigade and conform. :eyes:

[theboss]

26. I just don't think school should be a fashion show

I'm going out on a limb and saying that this guy spends more time getting dressed in the morning than any of the preppy (is that word still used?) kids in their....whatever is in...(Hilfigger? I'm so old) ... clothes.

[mondo joe]

242. What difference does it make how long it takes him to dress ?

Seriously - what difference does it make?

What's his GPA?

Is he fair and decent?

[VAMom]

251. Kid - n- makeup

GPA? The article mentions that he is repeating his freshman year and is now 16 years old.

My guess is that this guy has more to worry with than his hair and makeup. The working world can be tough on folks with no high school diploma.

I taught an 8th grader this year with a purple mohawk and black lipstick. Didn't bother me, just part of the scenary.

[mondo joe]

255. Good opoint about his GPA - but I don't think we can attribute it to how

long it takes him to do hair or makeup. Or is anyone really suggesting if he skipped that he'd be doing schoolwork instead?

[UdoKier]

30. Just until the bell rings.

Then he can do whatever he wants.

I grew up in the 80s too. There were a few kids pushing the envelope with those tired fashions then, and it did nothing to improve the education we got. kids were wasting valuable time, energy and money trying to outdo each other fashion-wise. I personally favor uniforms in schools. They blur class boundaries, save parents money and save kids time.

[theboss]

23. School is not a Cure concert (did I just reveal my age?)

Sorry...couldn't think of a modern band.

Anyway, schools have a right to set dress codes and keep kids from being distractions. If he wants to dress like the bastard son of Freddy Mercury and Sid Vicious, he can do it on the weekends.

[Goldmund]

24. Schools have the right to be oppressive fortresses, sure.

As long as they're not public schools.

In public schools, nobody can set an absolute standard of what's appropriate and what's not.

[theboss]

28. Actually, they can

Case law is very clear on this matter that students do not have absolute First Amendment rights in school. Schools have tremendous leeway to set speech codes, dress codes, censor school papers, and even search lockers.

This has been the trend for at least 35 years with judges both liberal and conservative.

[Goldmund]

31. Then that law sucks.

[theboss]

35. It's more of a line of cases than law

No one has mounted any formidable challenge in years.

[kath]

271. These days, students seem to have virtually NO rights.

Teachers/administrators treat students like absolute shit (or like prisoners), with NO rights, and then say that public education raises people to be good citizens of a democracy. Absolute BULLSHIT.

[Straight Shooter]

25. Well, he certainly strikes a defiant pose for the photograph.

Some people might find his "cosmetics" extremely distracting for a while in class, but then I guess they would adjust.

I agree that pink is not this boy's color. I suggest purple.

[livinginphotographs]

27. Eh, I wouldn't do it

But that's why I don't. I say leave the kid alone and let him wear whatever the hell he wants, or at least have uniforms and punish everyone equally.

I'd rather go to a high school full of clothes like that than the cookie-cutter Abercrombie & Fitch crowd.

[UdoKier]

29. Fine with me. He needs to conform in school.

School is not about self-expression, it's about learning, and kids dressing like that is disruptive.

He can do what he wants on his own time, but should conform to the school's dress code.

By the way, there is nothing "Wiccan" about the way that kid is dressed. Crock o'crap.

[Runcible Spoon]

74. So I guess next time kids are force-fed Creationism

they should just keep their mouths shut, since schol is "not about self-expression"...I hope you never EVER become a creative writing teacher! "kids dressing like that is disruptive" more disruptive than the little Teen Bible thumpers telling "different" kids that they're going to hell? And how dare you question his right to express his religion how he sees fit? as if pink eye shadow was any more ridiculous than believing wafers and wine turn into blood and flesh!

[UdoKier]

77. I don't believe in any religious expression at school.

And punk hair and makeup are not religion.

Kids are there to learn, not to spew their ill-informed opinions on others. That goes for silly goths just as much as it goes for Fundie nutjobs.

So you would allow this kid's tacky ensemble AND a communion ceremony at school?

Talk about ridiculous...

[mondo joe]

79. So no yarmulkes for Jewish boys? No head coverings for Muslim girls?

No crucifix necklaces?

[UdoKier]

81. No, no, and no.

I think they are inappropriate in a public school, but that's just me.


And even if they are allowed, that kid's getup is not remotely religious. Not only is he disruptive, he is a liar.

[mondo joe]

85. I don't know how you're qualified to say it's not a part of his religion

and I can hardly see how forcing children to violate their religious beliefs is expected to result in improved education.

[UdoKier]

87. Because it's not. I'm familiar enough with Wicca to know that...

... there is no Wiccan tradition of wearing tired 80's punk gear.

There is an argument for allowing kids to wear religious junk to school. I just personally don't favor it.

[mondo joe]

91. Maybe he has different Wiccan beliefs than you - or are you the Wicca Pope

?

Besides - I would still like to know how telling a young Jewish teen he has to violate his religion is supposed to improve education.

[Swamp Rat]

154. LOL!

:spray: ... "Wicca Pope!" :D

[maddiejoan]

270. 80's Wicca??

Maybe he belongs to the Church of the Poison Mind.

[UdoKier]

95. Children don't have religious beliefs.

They just act out what's been imposed on them by their parents.

[Runcible Spoon]

100. ummm right.

this keeps getting better and better. Ever talked to the rebellious child of a fundie? Oh, I forgot, children, even highschoolers, are supposed to just be ideological sponges. Banish free thinking, right? This is some scary shit!

[mondo joe]

106. I don't know - I had pretty firm beliefs when I was a teenager

And they weren't even shared with my family.

[Bouncy Ball]

115. WHAT?

I wouldn't bet money on that. We've always raised our daughter (now 10) to use her conscience as a guide and decide what SHE believes and she has. In fact, she outlined her whole belief system for me the other day and it was quite interesting. We attend a UU church where she learns about all different belief systems.

Hers is different from mine and it's different from my husband's and mine is differnet from my husband's. All three of us have slightly different belief systems.

What you said is bunk. And my parents allowed me the same freedom as we are allowing our daughter.

[Withywindle]

147. That's a ridiculous statement

First off, a teenager isn't the same thing as a child.


Second, my parents are atheists, but I definitely had religious beliefs even as a fairly young child (They turned out to align fairly closely with Wiccan ones, in fact, but I had never heard of Wicca at the time I first felt them and explored them for myself). This is not uncommon at all.

[Swamp Rat]

156. I disagree with that statement

I had myself baptized Episcopalian (not the religion of my parents) when I was a child. I also adopted other religions/rituals and cultural beliefs as I grew up: Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, Hedonism, Shamanism, Native American Spiritualism, Neo-Bacchus/Dionysus-ism... and many more that I invented, at will. :D

[JohnLocke]

274. Bull-fucking-shit.

Nonsense.

[JohnLocke]

273. That's offensive.

I do not wear a kippah, but I know many others among my Jewish friends that do. To deny them the right to practice their religion in public schools is discriminatory.

They are not "inappropriate in a public school." Bullshit.

[Runcible Spoon]

92. who the hell are you to say what is and isn't religious expression?

I used the communion example to show how arbitrary religious practices can be, NOT to advocate school-wide communion ceremonies. Nice straw man. Altho if a kid wants to wear a yarmulke or a cross or purple makeup, I don't give a shit. Some of us were mature enough to see past surface detail and not get our panties in a bunch. The problem is with the little shits who freak out over something different and the culture their parents brought them up in, NOT with the kids who are expressing themselves.

[UdoKier]

94. The kid is NOT engaging in religious expression

YOu know damn well he's lying, so why pretend that he's not just because of what you see as a matter of principle?

It's clearly just the typical youthful rebelliousness. He's free to do it on his own time, but why should everyone else in the class be subjected to it?

[Runcible Spoon]

99. no we DON'T know he's lying.

there are many, many Wiccans and goths who dress like this. Just because it isn't a mainstream tradition doesn't mean the practices and beliefs which you expressed ignorance about should be ridiculed or questioned without foundation. And this is what you are explicitly doing. I suggest you examine your own biases before you expect others to respect your opinion. On edit: why should I have to be subjected to ugly ass Abercrombie and Fitch wearing clones? That bothered me in school to no end. I was actually instrumental in getting my school's dress code 8 years ago amended to be fair. This took a lot of hard work but we did it. Now cheerleaders can't hooch around while punks get busted for wearing short kilts.

[Withywindle]

148. It looks like pretty straight-up punk fashion to me...

...and the punk style is about THIRTY YEARS OLD now. People still find it shocking and "distracting"? Daaaamn, way to be behind the cultural curve!

If it has religious significance to him, fine, a lot of people do. But there are people with a punk look who don't, as well.

Half my college class looked like this 15 years ago. It's a wonder I managed to graduate with all the "distraction"! I couldn't sleep at night! They were so STRANGE, so DISTURBING....I'd NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Runcible Spoon]

153. this ISN'T classic punk.

At any rate, this is more "goth" than it is punk. The punks I knew in high school, in the late 90's, would have beaten this kid up. And if this way of dressing has religious significance, so be it. It's no more outlandish than the Pope's funny hat.
edited to be less inflammatory***

[Withywindle]

155. Yeah, I was gonna say...

what the hell?...I'm not passing judgement on anything. I think the kid looks fine, I got no problem with it.

The goth style I'm more familiar with is more black and dark colors and white accents, Victorian and vampirey. No goth I knew back in the day would go near hot pink anything. But of course these things change. That's hair-splitting, though: the points I was TRYING to make are:

(1) Variations on this style have been around so long that I'm shocked that anyone is still shocked.

and

(2) People determine for themselves what meaning their hair and makeup and clothes and etc. have, if any. It's not anyone else's place to say that.

[UdoKier]

160. I'm not shocked. I just dont think school is the place...

for a fashion show.

[mondo joe]

169. It's funny because you argue that teens should have no rights in

the precise place they are REQUIRED to be. The precise place where their rights should be most safeguarded because they don't have the option to leave.

Fortunately the courts have established that teens DO have rights.

[UdoKier]

173. They have certain unalienable civil rights as human beings.

They don't have the same rights as adults, nor do they have the same legal responsibilities.

[mondo joe]

195. They don't have to have THE SAME rights as adults - they DO have rights

[UdoKier]

159. College isn't public high school.

I don't care what anyone wears in college. K-12 is different. They're not adults with rights or responsibilities yet.

[Withywindle]

162. I only said that because I went to a very rural high school

...so there weren't a lot of kids into this style yet this far, though some of the girls did do pink and green hair streaks and the like. It was pretty common in suburban and urban high schools then, though (mid-80s). Plenty of the kids in my college I was talking about had dressed that way for years.


"Rights and responsibilities" don't have anything to do with it. It's just clothes and hair and makeup. It's trivial. And adults who overreact are playing very predictably right into teen "rebels" hands, and I don't understand the reaction at all, never have. School has always been a fashion show. Kids are still getting beat up for wearing the "wrong" kind of sneakers (that are indistinguishable from the "right" kind to people who don't pay minute attention to these things). It's just absurd. Who the hell cares what people of any age wear? :shrug:

[UdoKier]

164. If it's so trivial, then why balk at uniforms?

That is the best solution, IMO.

[Withywindle]

170. I'm not.

I just don't really care. Uniforms make sense, because it's the same for everyone, and you don't get into ridiculous, divisive judgements about "Now, what YOU're wearing is fine, but YOU look like a freak!". I'm all for taking these value judgements out of the hands of school officials as well: either the kid's wearing the uniform or not, very simple.

[UdoKier]

158. Uniforms are a better solution to that than anything goes.

I don't favor designer duds in school either.

[mondo joe]

166. Why? What's the problem with people expressing themselves?

Oh I forgot - you think teens have no SELF.

[UdoKier]

167. Not authentic ones. They mimic adults and they mimic other teens.

It takes more than 15 years to make a full rounded person. But that's not the point.

School is not about "expressing yourself". There are 16 other hours of the day when they can do that, as well as vacations. School is a place to learn academic subjects, not put on fashion shows. I don't care if it's the Gap or a cheesy mohawk.

My kid went to schools with uniforms and it was great. No pressure to have the latest thing, nobody put down for uncool clothes, less cliquishness.

[mondo joe]

168. And wearing a shirt you choose impairs your ability to learn in what

way?

There are some arguments to be made in favor of uniforms, but I fail to see one in your posts.

And the idea that you must be a "full rounded person" before you express yourself is almost as embarassing as your notion that teens are incapable of holding a religious view of their own.

[UdoKier]

171. You don't need to be a full rounded person to express yourself.

You just need to be one before I give a damn what you have to say. I'm more interested in the views of people who have some life experience under their belt, more than just "Dude, my folks got divorced and now I have to share a room with my brother" and "Omigod, he TOTALLY tried to feel me up!"

People have to wair hairnets when working with food. Doctors have to wear uniforms. There is nothing wrong with having kids wear uniforms too. Expression via clothing is shallow, superficial, and meaningless anyway. Why not develop kids who are unique on the inside? We have a whole generation of kids with nose and eyebrow rings, and they are no more interesting or nonconformist than their counterparts were in the stodgy 1950s.

[mondo joe]

178. So it has to pass YOUR muster before a person can express themselves?

Why not develop kids who are unique on the inside? By telling them they have to be "full rounded persons" before they merit interest?

By telling them they are incapable of having religious views of their own while teens?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good luck! And good luck to your poor kids.

And if you didn't notice, adults CHOOSE to work with food, to be physicians and so on - they willingly choose the uniform. Kids don't choose school - we force it on them. And thank goodness we do.

So why oppose them the freedom to wear what they like or the haircut they like? They're people, not slaves.

[UdoKier]

182. They can do whatever they want on their time.

School is NOT their time.

And my kids are doing just fine, thanks.

[mondo joe]

184. School is not their time? Whose is it - yours?

And I'm glad you think your kids are doing fine.

[UdoKier]

185. They will certainly know better than to think that individuality...

... has anything to do with things as superficial as lipstick and mohawks.

School is communal learning time, not individual expression time. That's called AFTER school. He can put safety pins through his nose, smoke pot, whatever for all I care on his time, but during school he should be clean, sober, and dressed to learn.

[mondo joe]

186. Oh boo hoo those superficial appearance issues -

Let's scoff at art too - it's just superficial appearance crap.

But I do agree at school one should be clean, sober, and dressed to learn. Now you just have to demonstrate how pink hair or make up impairs anyones ability to learn.

And that you can not do.

[UdoKier]

193. And yet, most schools have dress codes that don't allow this. Go figure.

I guess I'm not the only one that thinks this tedious "individuality" disingenuously labeling itself as "religious expression" is a distraction.
I live in San Francisco, and even the public schools have some rules in this department.

[mondo joe]

194. I'm sorry your experience with kids is that they are so distracted they

can't function if someone in the room has pink hair.

The kids I know are more sturdy than that, which might be a result of having a little more free expression of their own.

[Radical Activist]

109. Subjected to what?

Subjected to someone who doesn't conform in every way? The only distraction is the one caused by the school itself when it decided to make this an issue and expel the student.

The fact that someone dressing in an untraditional way is considered distracting just reveals the close minded and anal mode of thinking of the school administrators. I feel sorry for the kids who have to go to school there. I'm sure they're taught to question nothing, conform and be good little hitler youth.

[Withywindle]

150. Huh WHAAAAAT??

Wicca is not a religion with a strict dogma. Practitioners decide for themselves what does and does not have religious meaning for them. So no, I don't know that he's lying. In fact, I would tend to take him at his word. It's HIS business what his beliefs are, not mine. (That's one principle we do try to stick to: respect what other people say is meaningful to them, even if it's not to you. You don't get to dictate what other people's symbolism should be based on your own aesthetic taste.)

It's MAKEUP and HAIR DYE. That's all it is. It is not especially significant. It is not poisonous, noisy, dangerous, profane, or otherwise disruptive in any way. We all play Fashion Cop in our own heads. Personally, I think khaki pants are hideous: it's a revolting non-color, kind of an anti-color. It's a sort of aggressive, in-my-face blandness that reminds me of the way Starbuckses and Gaps are taking over every city and rendering them repulsively featureless. An otherwise attractive person in a pair of those things is like the Mona Lisa with a mustache drawn on it.

However, I realize this is my problem more than that of the khaki-wearer, and that it's polite to simply ignore that which offends my taste.

[RedCappedBandit]

208. It doesn't matter what you believe

Kids are there partially to learn, yes. Of course, they are also there because they are forced to spend the majority of their time spent awake in this place. They should be permitted to dress however they see fit, as their school could be considered a home away from home due to the sheer amount of time and energy spent there. Who are you to tell anybody how they may or may not dress? If you don't want to show your individuality, then you don't have to. As long as they are not forcing their beliefs on others, there is absolutely no problem.

What YOU believe about expression has no bearing, as you are not the person spending time in this prison like environment.

[Bouncy Ball]

84. How are learning and self-expression mutually exclusive, as you

just framed it?

It's not disruptive unless people make a big freaking deal out of it. As they are.

When you don't make a big deal out of it, it isn't a big deal.

His makeup and hair aren't harming a soul. Where's the harm?

Leave him be. Let kids dress how they want, as long as their bits are covered up appropriately.

[Runcible Spoon]

103. don't bother.

apparently kids are unable to think for themselves or even have a religious belief. Seeems they are merely ideological sponges and mirrors of their parents. :sarcasm:

[UdoKier]

161. Yes, they generally are.

And this kid proves the rule.

[MsTryska]

32. what a fabulous shade of pink his hair is.

personally i'm not sure what the problem is. I went to public high school, and he wouldn't have got kicked out of mine. Hereminds of a kid i used to ride the bus with. he sported a blue mohawk for a while. and wore a kilt when he wanted to too. and he was big as hell.

[Goldmund]

33. I'd rather expel little tie-wearing conformist shits.

[theboss]

37. That was me!

I like wearing a tie.

[Goldmund]

40. LOL take no offense

It's not those silly pieces of cloth I have anything against.

It is that as long as we can choose what to wear, whatever we wear is invariably self-expression -- even if it only expresses "I'm too <insert adjective> to care about what I'm wearing". My main gripe with punishing this kid (and many others) is that it's the NON-CONFORMIST expression that always gets punished, not the conformist. And that's a message that is contrary to my idea of what liberal education should be.

[UdoKier]

96. Nothing could be more nonconformist than ties in school.

Now if you wanna talk about the Old Navy-Gap brigade, you might have a point.

[Goldmund]

142. Depends where you go to school

but ties weren't my point; conformism was.

[Mizmoon]

34. He looks like a beautiful art project

go, kid, go! You even have former 60s hippie-types worked up and offended!

:yourock:

[Chovexani]

218. Yeah, LOL

A lot of people seem to forget what it's like to be young when they get a certain age. I hope I don't end up like that...

[gollygee]

38. Well he looks like a fool, but who the hell cares

Let him wear the makeup if he likes it. And get a life, principal of Pacific High School.

[renaissanceguy]

41. The interesting thing is that the fundies bitch and moan about

religious freedoms and expression...but of course it only applies when you are a Christian.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/479727

[theboss]

42. I'm the only non-hypocrite on this issue

I think that if you want to read your Bible at lunch, fine. And if you want to read....Spin...Blender...(what music mags do kids read these days? I'm old!) at lunch, that's fine too. But the classroom is for learning and should be as free as distractions as possible.

[Goldmund]

44. Well is there such a thing as a "distraction" in an absolute sense?

Somebody's red tie and gelled hair sure can distract me, for example.

[theboss]

47. Socrates would like you

However, I would say that in a school classroom, a nerd in a white shirt (me!) is not a distraction while some dude who looks like an extra from Mad Max is.

[Goldmund]

52. Well, you can say that all you want,

but what about those like me who are allergic to nerds in white shirts? :)

One of the most important things that education should give you is tolerance for difference and diversity, in all of its many forms. If this guy is a distraction to you, then schoolin' needs to teach you to get over it.

[theboss]

59. I think math, biology, history, and literature are more important

My parents and all my dad's siblings were/are teachers so I grew up surrounded by these types of problems.

One of my mentors was my high school principal who was also my neighbor. I still get drunk with him at Christmas. Anyway, he had the best approach when it came to these problems. He would have pulled the kid in and said, "Look, I like your style. You know who you are. I like who you are. But I can't have you running around school looking this. Dress this way at home. Dress this way at school dances. Dress this way at football and basketball games. And I am going to put you in charge of costume and make-up for all school plays and musicals. You can keep the mohawk. You can even keep the clothes. But tomorrow, no make up and no pink hair. Thanks, buddy."

[Goldmund]

60. I think that it's all tied together.

Advances in math, biology, history and literature are made by those who dare to break barriers of conformism.

[mondo joe]

68. I'd like to see someone tell a Christian kid to not wear their big old

crucifix to school on the same basis and see where it gets them.

We've already established a right for even teens in school to dress as their religion guides them. There's no reason that shouldn't apply here as well.

[Goldmund]

69. Oh, but don't you know....

RELIGION is valid grounds for invoking civil rights! PERSONAL PHILOSOPHY is not!

In other words, as long as you're CONFORMING to something, you're cool... What we don't dig is them individualist wackos.

[theboss]

73. You really see no difference between dressing like Ronald McDonald....

...and wearing a piece of jewelry?

On the public street, I would agree that the distinction is meaningless.

In a school, it is meaningful.

[Goldmund]

75. Yes, I really don't see the difference.

If you do, let me know what it is. Speaking from the high horse of conformity as if it were some self-evident truth don't cut it.

[mondo joe]

78. Different religions are different. Some call for elaborate head and body

coverings.

But that's the problem with our laws - they are set up in such a way that Christians benefit from being the norm, thus having the most normative behavior and dress.

It's like the Moment of Silence in schools - if Christian kids want to pray it works for them, but there are religions in which prayer doesn't work that way.

[UdoKier]

188. Why should kids bring religious knicknacks to school?

What about people who are in phallic religions? Anything goes?

I say uniforms, and NO religious crap of any kind in public schools. You want religious junk, go to parochial school, or keep it at home where it belongs.

[mondo joe]

196. Well that's fine if you want a system that favors Christians

THey don't need to have their religious "kicknacks". They won't suffer as a result of such a ban.

But Jewish boys do, as a tenet of their religion.

So do Muslim girls.

So do some others.

Tell me how forcing them to violate their religion will enhance their education.

[UdoKier]

197. How does it favor Christians? Ban crosses, WWJD shirts, whatever.

They are not necessary in school.

[mondo joe]

198. I just explained how: Christians don't need to wear anything

special, so a rule that disallows any religious clothing doesn't impact them.

It only impacts those in some minoroty religions - like Jews who would be prohibited from wearing yarmulkes or muslims who would be prohibited from wearing headcoverings.

What exactly is it about forcing them to violate their religion that makes you think it will improve education?

[MADem]

276. I used to live near a Muslim school

If you want religion in the school, send your kid to a school that is religious. I'm with those who think we need to skip the touchy feely crap, and get back to educating kids. There are too many overpaid school administrators, and not enough teachers teaching the basics.

And I like uniforms. It may be easy for a wealthy parent to buy the kid a fancy car and fancy sneakers, but it is a hellluva thing for the less prosperous parent, who may have several kids, who has to tell their little ones "no" when they want the expensive stuff their friends are wearing. They can "self express" on the weekends, and when they come home, AFTER they've hung up their school outfit. polished their little shoes, and put the dirty stuff in the hamper!

The school in this kid's case is wrong, though, I will grant that. If they don't have well established written rules, they are just jerking his chain because they don't like the way he looks.

And he does look like a dweeb!

[mondo joe]

280. I'm an atheist and adamant about separation of church and state BUT I see

NO reason to demand that Jews and Muslims violate THEIR religion because someone else doesn't want them to wear those articles of clothing.

And I don't know where all these "overpaid" administrators are.

[MADem]

289. Neither do the teachers, apparently

Most of them make a bundle, more than twice what the teachers make, and they have assistants, and assistants to assistants....over the years, if you look at most school budgets, more and more of the salary end is going to people who never set foot in a classroom. I think that's a bad idea.

As for religion, when and where do you draw the line? Never? Sure, Billy, go ahead and burn that effigy of Christ as required by your particular Satanic sect....

It's a conundrum. The courts would probably waffle away from the whole issue with some sort of 'community standard' ruling.

[mondo joe]

290. I don't know who all the "OVERPAID" administrators are.

The administrator at my kids' school does an amazing job and whatever she's paid isn't enough.

I don't know why you have to be IN the classroom to be worth paying.

As to where you draw the line, I don't support any ACTIVITY that stops the school process. But wearing a veil or yarmulke or a hair color doesn't hinder that process in any way at all.

[MADem]

300. We agree to disagree, then n/t

[SheepyMcSheepster]

57. maybe it was just me

but as a heterosexual male, i found girls to be more distracting than a guy with day-glow make up.

i am just saying, as long as we are talking about distractions.

:shrug:


edit: meant to reply to post 42, sorry, i must have gotten distracted somehow.

[Goldmund]

58. hmmm.... Maybe we should separate them girls and boys?

Or just castrate all kids?

Or no, wait... Make them wear blindfolds?

[mondo joe]

65. I always found those muscular jocks distracting! And some hot geek boys

too!

We need special classes for the gay kids too, unless we get distracted by each other. Then we need individual non hottie tutors.

[mondo joe]

46. Problem there is who is determining what is distracting?

And how long is something distracting because it's a distraction?

If the guy had pink hair how long would it take before everyone would be OVER it?

[Bouncy Ball]

88. It becomes a distraction when we MAKE IT A DISTRACTION.

Why don't other adults see what I am saying?

We MAKE it into a big huge federal case and THEN it's a distraction. Because we put all that SIGNIFICANCE on it.

If we didn't bat an eye at pink mohawks and the like, the kids wouldn't, either. I've seen a school like that (with a VERY lax dress code). The kids were happy, no one was distracted, they were learning, and they were allowed to dress in whatever funky way they pleased, as long as privates weren't showing.

That's what convinced me that we CAUSE these things to be a big distraction because we hyperventilate over them so damn much.

[Withywindle]

152. Exactly, thank you!

And sure, a lot of kids do it to get a reaction, because it does. The adult freakout is even more pathetic than the rather cliched "rebellion" - it's like Pavlov's dog.

[Still_Loves_John]

43. This headline is deceptive

This isnt makeup so much as it is clown makeup. At my school they had a clause in the dress code that you couldnt have any unnatural hair color, eye color, etc, because its distracting. And honestly, it would be distracting to sit next to this guy in class. I think schools really should have some authority over the way we act, at least to a superficial degree. I would have a problem if they were shutting down a paper or something, but this is just some guy with bad hair. If I went to that school, I would want them to do something about him.

[mondo joe]

72. Oh for goodness sakes, how distracting would it be after the first half

hour?

Are you saying every day of school you just wouldn't be able to function because you'd spend the entire time focused on his hair?

[Still_Loves_John]

129. No, butd it be annoying and I'd rather not

Do you think he wouldn't be able to function just because he has to dress courteously?

[mondo joe]

133. His manner of dress is not discourteous. It has nothing to do with

anyone but himself.

Why would you be so annoyed with how another person chooses to color his hair or wear make up?

I'm being totally serious - I just can't imagine being ANNOYED by what someone else wears in that way, provided it's not an offensive message (like GAYS SUCK or I HATE JEWS).

[Still_Loves_John]

149. Dress can be distracting

It just can. And when you're dealing with other people who don't necessarily share your tastes, it is a courteous thing to dress in a neutral manner. I understand the argument that he has a right to freedom of expression, but I don't think that that really applies in schools. This kid isn't gonna be able to get a good job if he dresses like this for an interview; at some point in his life he's going to have to dress properly anyways, so why not start now? Just at school, when he leaves he can dress however he wants.

Now, I'm going to admit that I'm biased here because I don't see why someone would like to dress like that. I think that there are so many more ways to express yourself than dressing weird, and I think that dressing the way he does only serves to marginalize yourself. So, no question, my comments are colored to some degree.

[mondo joe]

165. Dress can be distracting if you choose to be distracted.

If the kid is not issuing offensive messages with his t shirts, he's not being discourteous.

In a pluralistic society we need to be able to get a long and appreciate differences.

IF and when he has to dress "properly" he will. There's no need to force him to do so now.

It's funny that you say "there are so many more ways to express yourself than dressing weird" because you're talking about imposing on HIS self expression YOUR ideas of self expression. And that kind of takes the "self" out of it.

Hey would you want a Jewish boy to stop wearing a yarmulke because it'd distracting? Or how about a Muslim girl who wants to wear a head covering?

[tammywammy]

287. I'm agree with your points here

At my high school, we had a lot of different groups (there was 4000 students).

I had male friends that wore makeup. Not as, um, colorful as this young man, but more like eyeliner, etc. I also had friends (of both sexes) with various colors of dyed hair, pink, blue, midnight black, etc.

At our school, we also had Muslims girls that wore the head scarf. (We had enough Muslim students, that they had their own club.)

I can see how this student could be considered distracting. But, really, after a day he's old news. The adults are making this way more distracting than it would have been, if he was allowed to continue to dress like this.

I do think there should be some dress code standards. I don't think guys should be wearing pants half way down their butt, girls thongs shouldn't be showing, shorts/skirts of an appropriate length, etc.

I think that this whole situation with this boy is overblown.

[RedCappedBandit]

299. Black people attending the same school as me

distracts me. I don't want them there.

/sarcasm
:eyes:

[mondo joe]

45. If he was a fundy pharmacist he could do anything he wants.

Funny.

[gollygee]

48. HAHAHA

:thumbsup:

[theboss]

49. He would also be an adult in that case

There's a big big difference.

[gollygee]

53. Yeah he'd be two years older

No decisions for yourself at all, then BAM you turn 18 and make every decision for yourself. That's the way to teach kids to be self-sufficient thinking adults. :sarcasm:

[theboss]

55. Well, that's how the courts view it

It's rather silly at times, but them's the rules.

[gollygee]

56. Yeah

it just seems so silly. I mean, it's his hair and his face. Oh well.

[mondo joe]

62. Why is that the big difference? If pharmacists can refuse to carry out

the jobs they CHOOSE to have based on moral grounds, even when it impacts others negatively, why can't this young person dress in a manner he chooses in a school system he's FORCED to be in?

[theboss]

66. Because he's a minor and does not have the same rights as an adult

That's simply a cornerstone of Constitutional law. Minor students check a very large number of their rights at the schoolhouse door.

It's actually rather a lot like prisoner rights to be honest.

[mondo joe]

67. Adults didn't used to have the right to refuse to do their jobs - that's a

new invention.

What I'm trying to point out is that legislators are creating rights to protect SOME people from reprecussions resulting from carrying out their "moralilty" but strangely others are still unprotected.

[Runcible Spoon]

83. GOOD ONE!

snarf! :spray:

[OldCurmudgeon]

51. lipstick, eye shadow BAD...but the hair is okay!

congrats to the kid, he provoked admin jerks into showing their true colors and doing something intensely stupid by suspending him.

Had they just ignored it, why the result would have been...nothing.

[WLKjr]

54. But the drama prevailed

That schools new motto should be:

"Like haircolor and black lipstick on students, so are the days of our bigited lives."

[donheld]

61. Absolutely insane

:crazy: let the kid be.

[elehhhhna]

63. When this was a free country it was okay to look like Bozo...

[B Calm]

64. When I was a kid the schools had a day where students dressed

as the opposite sex.. It was a fun day, with a lot of laughs..

[Dark]

70. I'd have to agree with the school on this.

ALL religions should be kept out of the school. And, whether or not he is trying to, that look IS disrupting to a classroom. Therefore, it's not justified.

[mondo joe]

71. But some religious expression is already permitted in schools

so that's a moot point. You can wear a crucifix or a yarmulke or a head covering.

Besides - you don't need pink hair to be distracting, and if he wears it all the time how long will it be distracting ANYWAY?

[quinnox]

76. Maybe he should just drop school and go join a Circus

It looks like he would enjoy that career, Holy shit!

[Bouncy Ball]

80. I taught high school for some years.

And I've worked with teenagers for even longer.

When you make a BIG deal out of stuff like this, it BECOMES a big deal. I've seen schools where they don't care about dress or makeup or whatever, as long as all your bits are covered, and the kids don't even bat an eye at stuff like this, because it's ALLOWED.

But when a big federal case is made out of it, SHOCK! GASP! DRAMA!

He's doing nothing wrong. He really isn't. What does his makeup and lipstick hurt? It hurts no one and nothing, including him.

Leave the kids alone. If they want to paint their fingernails black or get a mohawk, those are temporary things. Where's the harm?

[mondo joe]

82. Indeed. One way gay kids are forced into the closet in schools is

the claim that being out causes a DISTRACTION.

As if being gay or having pink hair could make teenagers any more distracted than they already are.

People who want to REALLY keep teens from being distracted should neuter them.

[Bouncy Ball]

90. Exactly.

Anything and everything can distract a teenager. A tiny sound only they can hear can distract them.

A shift in the wind can distract them.

Adults are really stupid sometimes, I'm sad to say.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. He was suspended for looking like a freak

They need to be honest here.

[Bouncy Ball]

89. A freak?

Whose opinion is that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

98. Click on the link and read the entire article

The school district's code of conduct says that kids cannot dress in a manner that is distracting to the learning environment. We have the same rule in our district. I would imagine that most districts have similar policies. And I do believe you can call this kid's makeup and haircut 'distracting'.

I think he looks like a freak. And I am surprised that they have allowed him to come to school like this for nearly two years before they suspended him.

[Bouncy Ball]

102. It's distracting because they make such a big deal out of it.

ANYTHING can be distracting to a teenager.

When I was in high school a kid wore a shirt advertising beer. They made him wear duct tape over the words and that was FAR more humorous and distracting to us than the shirt would have been, because it was so damn odd-looking and everyone wanted to know WHAT HE GOT IN TROUBLE FOR! OOOOOO!!!!! DRAMA!!!!

The administrators made a bigger deal out of it than they had to.

The distraction argument is just illogical. ANYTHING and everything distracts kids.

And in schools where they allow this kind of thing, the kids don't bat an eye at it. Why? It's not made into a big federal case.

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. As I said in an earlier post

I would have trouble paying attention in class if I sat behind this kid.

I understand your point. I teach special ed. I have definitely learned to pick my battles with kids. But I think this kid's outfit is 'distracting' and if you read the rules, he CAN be suspended for this.

I also know that no way would I have ever let either of my boys go to school looking like this. And if any of my students came to school in this outfit, I am certain that my principal would send them home.

[mondo joe]

110. Honestly, how long would his hair keep you from learning?

What if a Jewish kid sat in front of you - would his yarmulke keep you from learning?

[proud2BlibKansan]

No a yarmulke would not keep me from learning

but sitting behind a freak like this WOULD be distracting to me.

[Bouncy Ball]

120. Hey.

He's not a FREAK, he's someone's CHILD.

You teach? Special education? I'm a bit surprised you would call a child a freak.

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. And I am surprised others don't think

he looks like a freak. I am not calling HIM a freak, but he sure dresses like one.

[mondo joe]

127. If a teacher at my kids' school was saying kids were OR looked

like "freaks" there'd be a real issue.

Honestly, how can his hair color or make up harm anyone?

What poor boundaries you must have.

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. My boundaries are just fine thank you

And I am not AT school right now so I believe I can say he looks like a freak if I think he looks like a freak.

[mondo joe]

146. I don't think your boundaries are fine at all. For some reason you think

how someone wears their hair is your business.

You are unable to stop staring at their hair if it's something you consider inappropriate.

I don't think that's good boundaries.

And I really wonder about a teacher calling kids freaks.

[proud2BlibKansan]

176. When did I say it was my business?

And if it makes you feel any better, if this kid was my student, I would not tell him he looks like a freak. This is DU, not my classroom. You can wonder all you want, but unless and until you are in my class and personally witness how I treat my students, you have no basis for judging me. You can disagree with me when I say he looks like a freak, but that certainly isn't enough for you to judge me as a professional.

[mondo joe]

183. Well at least you keep your true feelings hidden from your students,

That's a plus, I suppose.

As for myself, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a teacher who thinks my kids might be FREAKS because of their hair or make up.
Even if he knows better than to SAY it in school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

189. So I take it you're a mind reader?

Or do you just assume what teachers think?

[mondo joe]

192. Nope - I don't know what anyone thinks until they say so.

But that's beside the point - I'd never want such a person teaching my kids. It might happen, but I hope it doesn't.

[livinginphotographs]

191. It's not a matter of professionalism.

Just because you're not at school doesn't make it any more right to call this kid a "freak." Honestly, for those of us that went through phases like this in high school, that word is almost as offensive as "fag."

And even though you're not currently at school, I would think that as a teacher you'd be a bit more sensitive than to call some kid a freak just because you don't like his hair color.

Jesus fucking christ, show some class.

[Bouncy Ball]

128. Actually you did call him a freak.

Here's the quote:

"...but sitting behind a freak like this WOULD be distracting to me."

That breaks my heart. You can't look past his hair and makeup to see a kid in there? I can. He's not a freak.

I don't think he looks like a "freak" either. What's a freak? He looks to me like a teenage boy with makeup on and a pink mohawk.

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

203. Okay

I did call him a freak. I should have said he looks like a freak. Didn't mean to break your heart. :shrug:

[theboss]

207. He's a freak child then

People dress this way for attention.

[mondo joe]

121. Again, how long would you be focused on his hair to the distraction

of education?

Seriously - would you spend entire days looking at his hair and thinking of nothing else?

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. Probably would

How many times are you going to ask me this question?

[mondo joe]

130. I was asking until I got an answer. I have to confess I don't see

how you or anyone could be so fascinated by his hair to the distraction of all else. After a few hours pink hair is as boring as any other hair.

I also don't understand why THAT would distract you but a yarmulke wouldn't. Some yarmulkes have intricate designs. For that matter so do some hair barettes. Why wouldn't those distract you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. Pink hair is never boring to me

Saw a kid at the mall last year with lavender hair. Had a hard time not staring at him.

[mondo joe]

141. Kind of like a crow and shiny objects? Seriously - it sounds like you

have a real impairment if you are so unable to engage in the world as long as there's something pink or lavender nearby.

[proud2BlibKansan]

177. And I think you

are obssessed with hounding me about this. I must be a distraction to YOU.

[mondo joe]

181. I am a little obsessed with fascism, it's true.

But I'm not complaining that you are preventing me from doing other things - I recognize my own self control. :-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

190. Bye

I don't converse with anyone who calls me a fascist.

[Bouncy Ball]

144. Kids deal with all kinds of distractions in the classroom all the time.

The nice weather outside, the bad weather outside, their hormones, how the kid next to them smells, the sound of someone's pencil tapping on a desk, the teacher's annoying voice, some home life concern, upset over their boyfriend or girlfriend breaking up with them.

All those things are things I have seen distract kids MUCH more than pink hair. We had a student who kept coming to school with safety pins through his nose and ears. He would do it at the bus stop each morning. His mom had no idea, she was wondering why all the tiny scabs on his face, but was apparently kind of clueless.

*I* noticed safety pin kid, but apparently the other kids thought it was a big shoulder shrugger. That was when I first realized that what adults think kids find distracting isn't necessarily what they find distracting.

Their attitude was mostly "Oh yeah, he does that at the bus stop." Then they'd roll their eyes and go on to something else.

These were eighth graders.

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. All the more reason

to have them all wear uniforms, I guess.

I was opposed to them at first. But our kids have been wearing them for two years now and it is nice not worrying about what they wear.

As for the kid in this story, I want to know why the school let him look like this for so long before they suspended him. I think you are right, that the adults are more bothered than the kids. And I wonder again if a parent complained. I mean, what happened to all of a sudden cause this suspension?

[Withywindle]

151. Good Lord!

As I said in upthread, the punk style has been around for 30 YEARS. If punk style were a person, it would be old enough to be this kid's parent. I'm just amazed that anyone can still find it shocking. :shrug:

I found people who looked like this distracting for about 10 minutes in 1983. Then I got really really used to it, wore it myself for a while until it got boring, still see it almost every day somewhere. Where on earth do you live that you see this so rarely?

[GodHelpUsAll2]

285. What is killing me

here is everyone that says they would be distracted by this kid. I'll give them that, he is a distraction. A very temporary distraction. If I encountered this kid I have to admit that he would get a second look from me. However, after that I would just chuckle and move on. What I am wondering is what is the real issue at hand here that people see something that is different from them and suddenly they are so distracted that they can think of nothing else and cease to function properly? My bigger concern is the lack of faith people seem to have in their own kids. To the point the feel they have to mold them and put blinders on them because they do not believe their kids can function any other way. These kids are our future. And there is no more faith in them than this? And the statements such as " you have to have experience under your belt and be a well rounded person before I I give a damn". And we wonder why the kids of this country are spinning out of control.

[Bouncy Ball]

114. Eh.

I'd let my child go to school looking like that, if she just insisted on it. Nothing he did to himself is permanent (we draw the line at permanent things like piercings or tattoos).

I would let her know ahead of time she would probably be sent home, but if she chose to suffer those consequences, well, she made that choice.

I highly doubt she ever would do that, so this is all moot, but I do think kids are quite entertained by how worked up the adults get over stuff like this.

And I still say if you ever get a chance to, go visit a school that doesn't bat an eye at this stuff. It's very interesting--the amount of kids who look like this guy actually go DOWN over time, because they know it gets no attention (I'm not saying that's why this kid is doing it, but it IS why a lot of kids do it--it's a surefire, immediate adult attention grabber).

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. My kid had dreadlocks

Blonde hair and matted up dreadlocks. We insisted he keep his hair clean and figured he's eventually outgrow the phase. And he did. But he never wore makeup or dyed his hair pink. I imagine we would have tried hard to talk him out of that.

[Bouncy Ball]

136. Those dreadlocks sure must have been distracting for his fellow

students.

And imagine if a teacher called him a freak.

Why would you have tried hard to talk him out of pink hair and makeup? My mother in law always had good advice when it came to kids, she said always ask yourself "where's the harm?" If there truly is no harm (and there truly isn't in this case, and the kid is old enough to understand what the consequences will be, dress code wise), then what's the problem? Is it that it would embarrass you?

[proud2BlibKansan]

174. Don't you get it?

It is embarrassing to the KID. Why let himself set himself up like this?

I am sure you also realize that a this age - high school - kids are beginning to join the work force. How many employers do you suppose would hire this kid?

[Bouncy Ball]

205. Uh, seriously, if it were embarrassing to the KID he wouldn't DO IT.

Who does things to deliberately embarrass themselves? Humans are funny creatures, we'll deal with all kinds of discomfort, but embarrassment is one humans of ALL ages actively work to avoid.

No, it MIGHT embarrass his parents or other family members, it MIGHT embarrass him to look at a picture of himself like this someday when he's OLDER, but I highly doubt it embarrasses him TODAY.

Also, he doesn't look like he's too terribly concerned about what he looks like to an employer. And I'm sure there's plenty of time for that.

[mondo joe]

143. What a freak! ;-)

What a funny double standard - dreds are okay but coloring isn't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

175. He did look stupid

but not as bad as this kid looks.

I tell you what, if you really see nothing wrong with this kid's looks, then why don't you do the same thing to your hair and makeup? I mean, if it's really not that bad to you, then go for it. And post pictures here. :)

[mondo joe]

180. Why should I wear the same look? I support the right of the individual

to choose their OWN look. You've confused me with yourself - you're the one who wants to require conformity of appearance.

But I have to say, I really pity the kids you raise and teach if you're so busy thinking they look stupid or are "freaks" because of their hair.

[proud2BlibKansan]

187. I never said anything about conformity

of appearance.

And insulting me and my professional capabilities (which I will remind you - you have no knowledge of) takes this conversation in the wrong direction. Would you rather discuss the issue at hand or attack me? I suspect it's the latter. :mad:

[mondo joe]

199. Of course you have - those who don't conform are "freaks".

And you even suggest if I think the way they student dresses I should as well. Another indication that you are missing the point: individual choice.

[Bouncy Ball]

206. You called him a freak because he doesn't look "normal" to YOU.

That's conformity.

[July]

246. So right. Somebody just doesn't like the look and created an issue.

My son's high school has similar rules, but when I visit, I see that just about anything goes. Despite the "no midriff" rule, I see lots of teenaged girls' bellies. And cleavage, and bra straps, and thong tops. Despite the "no controversial message T-shirts" rule, I see plenty of those, too. Along with unusually colored hair, every sort of hair style, flip-flops in January, piercings all over, five inches of boxer shorts sticking out of low, low pants, and Sharpie-written messages on hands, arms, and faces.

As far as I'm concerned, it's part of adolescence. They want attention, they want to distinguish themselves within their group, they want to freak out or piss off adults. Etc. Nothing wrong with any of it.

But there's always a teacher or administrator who's willing to take the bait.

[mondo joe]

107. How distracting is it after the first 10 minutes?

Some sexy young thing is probably a lot more distracting for a lot longer.

[Bouncy Ball]

111. If I could count the amount of class time I lost being

distracted by some guy's broad shoulders, sharp jawline, kissable lips, or beautiful eyes.......sigh.........

It was neverending.

The guy in the OP, I'd notice for a couple of minutes and then move on to my other fantasies.

[mondo joe]

116. Dig out your yearbook and scan some photos! I want to be

distracted too!

[Bouncy Ball]

123. Oh gosh, one guy I dated was like a cross between

a VERY young, hot Marlon Brando and James Dean. Seriously.

Whew. Is it hot in here?

I have no scanner, unfortunately.

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. I am wondering if maybe another parent

complained. I think it's distracting. I think no one is doing this kid any favors by letting him dress like this. The other kids are bound to tease him. But then I teach elementary school. High school is a different world. Judging from this picture, it's a lot more diferent than I ever imagined :)

[Bouncy Ball]

117. LOL. Yeah, it's VERY different.

I've seen some schools where kids like this would be quite popular and admired.

Why?

For pushing the buttons of the adults. ;-)

[mondo joe]

118. Again, please tell me for how many minutes would his hair prevent

you from learning?

[proud2BlibKansan]

122. Indefinitely

happy now?

[mondo joe]

140. Thanks for the answer. What other hair styles would keep you from

learning? Cornrow braids? An afro? Dreadlocks? Shaved?

I'm really impressed that you could focus on his hair INDEFINITELY to the exclusion of anything else going on, but you couldn't use that same focus on education. That's some powerful but twitchy focus you've got there.

[Bouncy Ball]

93. I had a student once who insisted on painting his fingernails

black and growing them long.

His dad was so upset, he would call me and beg me to "turn him in" to the office for it.

I looked in our dress code and, while it dealt with piercings and tattoos and the like, it didn't address fingernails. And certainly the girls had crazier fingernails, with their two inch long fake nails with little jewels, neon colors, and tiny earrings set on them.

So I explained to the dad that it's not against the rules.

He came up for a conference. Said he had already grounded his son for SIX WEEKS for the fingernails. The dad was so distressed. And I asked him what harm the fingernails were causing his son. The dad just said "they look stupid!" Then he said he was afraid his teachers would "look down on him" for them. All his teachers were there, in the conference and two of them admitted they hadn't even noticed.

The principal assured him it was no big deal to us.

He was still upset. Then I gently suggested that maybe his son was continuing to do this BECAUSE it was getting such a rise out of him. He acknowledged that might be the case and said he'd TRY to ignore it.

Well, the dad did ignore it. The kid got tired of painting his nails black and after a few more weeks of it, stopped.

What this guy is doing (the makeup and hair) isn't hurting him or anyone else. And the distraction issue is such a fallacy: it's only a distraction if we make it a big deal. And kids can be and are distracted by anything and everything. It doesn't matter. In schools where this isn't a big deal, the kids hardly notice.

[Radical Activist]

104. Exactly. The School is causing a distraction.

The makeup and dress by itself doesn't harm anyone and the other kids probably don't care.

[Bouncy Ball]

105. Kids are QUITE entertained by the adults freaking out, I can

assure you. They LOVE it.

[mondo joe]

112. I can't believe this whole scene from the movie Hairspray being acted out

even here on DU.

"Tracy Turnblad, your hair is preventing other children from learning!"

[Bouncy Ball]

119. LMAO!!!!

Oh my gosh that is so true!

[mondo joe]

124. It's FEATHERED not RATTED!

Geometry Teacher: Tracy Turnblad, once again your ratted hair is preventing another student's geometry education.

Tracy Turnblad: It's feathered, not ratted.

Geometry Teacher: Whatever you call it, it's a hair-don't.

[Bouncy Ball]

132. This calls for a picture.

[mondo joe]

137. That notorious Hair Hopper! Honestly - some things never change.

The fact that in 2005 we have special ed teachers calling people freaks and saying they would prevent others from learning with their hair is beyond sad.

[Bouncy Ball]

138. AND HER HAIR WAS TWO DIFFERENT COLORS!!!

And she was crossing racial lines, too!

THE NERVE!

;-)

[Swamp Rat]

157. LOL! n/t

:rofl:

[Radical Activist]

97. I was always distracted by the GIRLS who wore lipstick and makeup

in high school. I bet they aren't' cracking down on that.

[Dervill Crow]

145. He doesn't look particularly Wiccan to me.

I wouldn't be thrilled if my son wanted to go out dressed like that, but it's really no worse than the saggy jeans and boxers showing that are common in these parts. There are some battles that just aren't worth fighting. If he's not a behavior problem, I'd say leave the kid alone and be happy he wants to be in school!

At least if he's neopagan he probably isn't wearing makeup that was tested on animals. I agree with the other posters who pointed out that the adults freaking out is more distracting than the pink hair and weird makeup.

[Fescue4u]

163. lol

Going through life looking that way should be punishment enough.

[Generic Other]

200. I'm more interested in his GPA than his coiffure

In my experience, the bright and articulate ones dress like this.

The dullards dress accordingly.

[mondo joe]

201. This was all predicted by John Waters

in the movie Hairpray:


PRINCIPAL: Miss Turnblad? Have a seat.

TRACY: Yes, sir.

PRINCIPAL: Once again, your hairdo is getting you in hot water. Didn't two weeks in hairdo detention have any effect?

TRACY: I happen to be the height of teen fashion.

PRINCIPAL: You're on a one-way ticket to reform school. Well, I'm afraid we're just going to have to change your homeroom. Starting today, you report to class 10-D, room 108.

TRACY: Special ed?

PRINCIPAL: Yes, Miss Turnblad, special education.

TRACY: But that's for retards ... and the black kids you try to hold back.

PRINCIPAL: Here, you will be taught by specialists trained to deal with hairdo scofflaws in high school society.

TRACY: Mr. Davidson!

PRINCIPAL: That will be all, Miss Turnblad.

[imaginary girl]

202. Oh, oh, he's wearing black ...

... better find a reason to suspend him before he blows or shoots up the school.

[theboss]

209. True story...

My cousin is about 5 years older than me. He graduated high school in 1987. He goes to the beach in 1986 with some of his friends and gets his ear pierced. He comes home exhausted and falls asleep on the couch. He wakes up to find his ear bleeding.

His dad - a cop - came home, saw the earring and yanked it out in his sleep.

I can't imagine how he would respond to this.

Anyway, my dad actually asked me a few times if I wanted an earring and I always declined. Never liked them on guys.

[Bouncy Ball]

213. Great, good for you.

So are you saying boys should never get an earring for fear of their sadistic dad yanking it out while they slept? What odd reasoning.

How did he not wake up from his dad yanking out his earring? And making it BLEED?

So you graduated high school in 1992? What was all that above where you mentioned you were OLD about five times? I graduated high school around the time your cousin did, and I don't think of myself as old, I'm only in my mid-30s.

There's nothing wrong with self-expression. You do it every time you buy clothing. You just probably buy stuff that people don't notice.

[ashmanonar]

257. if my dad tore out my eyebrow ring (a bar, actually)

i would punch him right back. and he knows it. (i'm 20 tho, so i don't feel any hold from them)

incidentally, i think your cousin was stupid to get an earring from anywhere but a reputable piercist (if in fact he did), but that's just my opinion. your cousin's dad had no call to just tear the thing out. bullshit. i would have punched him even then.

it's self-expression. nothing wrong with it, especially in the ear (where it heals fast and is invisible after it's healed). when he would have needed to take it out, he could have. bloody sadistic of the dad to tear it out.

[theboss]

279. I think he was pissed because he had set a very firm rule

"No earrings." They had been having the argument for years. So, my cousin challenged him. And lost some skin.

Anyway, it all worked out fine. He got an earring in college without incident. Our families believe in a little tough love once in a while. The odd thing was his dad was the most mellow one in the family. His mom was a tyrant. For some reason, he chose the ear as the place to take a stand.

[ashmanonar]

294. well, i can see that he might not be happy with your

cousin having an earring. but seriously: tearing it out? :wow:

[theboss]

296. Eh, it was West Virginia

It's in the State Constitution. Article VI, I believe: "We don't raise pussies. Rub some dirt on it, son."

[ashmanonar]

297. lol

hell, i grew up south of chicago: "you're not sick, you should go to school anyways".

[New Dealer]

210. Going to school like that shouldn't be tolerated

School is a place to learn, not to dress like a freak. I think suspending him was a bit much, especially considering that there was nothing in the dress code preventing him from wearing that, but people should use common sense when dressing for school. If not, schools will be forced to solve the problem by instituting mandatory uniforms.

[mondo joe]

211. What about his clothing prevents anyone from learning?

Please explain.

[Bouncy Ball]

216. Have you read all the posts in this thread?

I've been in education for years and I've seen schools which DO allow things like this. The kids don't bat an eye at it. It's not much of a distraction, I can tell you that.

What kids DO love and are really entertained by are adults freaking out over stuff like this. I'm not saying that's why THIS kid does it, but I can gaurantee you some of his peers are enjoying the show. Adults are so predictable--someone looks different and they freak out.

There's nothing wrong with how he looks. It's not permanent, he's not hurting himself and he's not hurting others.

Common sense? Maybe it's common sense to him to look like that. Maybe it's common sense to you to wear a suit and tie or dress or whatever (don't know your gender).

Conformity---he's got the rest of his life to conform. Who cares what he looks like? You can focus on things that really matter when you let go of caring what other people look like. That goes for school administrations, too.

(The kids really do love watching adults react and freak out--it's practically a spectator sport for them. And we fall for it every damn time.)

[mondo joe]

219. What kind of precious hot house flowers do people want kids to be

if they think they can't function in the same room with someone with an odd hair color?

And for goodness sakes, if people start to think they can color their hair as they choose what other crazy ideas will they start to have about what they can do with their own bodies?

[Bouncy Ball]

226. OMG!!!

LOL. Seriously, I wish adults would take a giant chill pill when it comes to teenagers. Worry about the stuff that REALLY matters when it comes to kids. Hair color? Makeup? This kid isn't still going to be doing this when he's 40, and even if he DOES, so what? He'll deal with the consequences of not working for a Fortune 500 company.

I believe in letting kids make their own informed decisions, as long as parents watch out for the kids SAFETY. Also, things that aren't permanent really shouldn't be worried about too much. If my daughter wanted to dye her hair blue, we'd talk to make sure she was FULLY aware that society tends to frown on blue hair (unless you are over 80) and that she was fully aware of all the consequences. If she was and was still wanting to do it, I'd say go right ahead. Dye can be removed, hair grows out.

But if she wanted to pierce her tongue or get a tattoo, we'd say "when you are 18, and with your own money, fine." Those things are more permanent (though the tongue thing isn't AS permanent as a tattoo, but you know what I mean).

This is a less dramatic example, but a couple of months ago, she wanted her long blond hair cut off to the length of a boy's haircut. I asked her if she was sure, if she was ABSOLUTELY sure and she kept insisting she was (she's 10).

So she got it cut off SHORT. She loved it. We loved it. At school some boys started to tease her, calling her a boy. One even threw rocks at her. She ended up going to a trusted teacher and confiding, then the rock throwing stopped.

Her hair is still super short and now no one says anything. No one even notices and she still loves her haircut. She knew people might react, but she was being true to what SHE wanted, not what she thought she SHOULD look like. She hated long hair.

She begged me for a pair of shoelaces that have pink skull and crossbones on them. She had her own money to buy them with, too, so I said ok. She put them on her hot pink Converse and her teacher had a fit, because skulls and crossbones were "a symbol of death." I explained to the teacher she just thinks they're cool looking, and the bigger deal the teacher made out of it, the bigger deal it would be. The funny thing is, the other kids didn't even NOTICE what was on her shoelaces until the teacher had a fit over them! How crazy is that??? So she's allowed to wear them to school. :eyes:

Big deal. People should take a deep breath and relax. The kids really are ok.

[New Dealer]

247. School should be taken seriously

When students are allowed to dress like this, what's to stop someone from attending in a thong or something? It's not asking much of students to dress in a somewhat normal manner. If students continue to dress in rediculous ways, school will be seen as more of a joke (although it already is). When students don't take school seriously, they don't do well. Many other countries have strict dress codes, often mandatory uniforms, which is why they continue to produce better-educated citizens.

[Bouncy Ball]

250. So you are saying anyone who dresses this way doesn't take school

seriously? That's a scream, really. I have taught kids that looked scarier than shit who had 4.0 GPAs and were in the National Honor Society and college bound.

How you dress in school is not necessarily a reflection on how you FEEL about school and you shouldn't automatically interpret it as such. It is often more about how the child feels about themselves or how they felt about how they wanted to look that day!

And what's to stop them from attending in a thong? Dress code rules that address nudity or near-nudity. That's what school do that have very lax dress codes---they simply address having all your bits covered and that "covers it!" LOL!

This is truly not a big issue unless adults MAKE it into one. And your assumption that dress=how seriously a person takes anything is just wrong.

[mondo joe]

284. How do you think GW Bush looked in school?

It's so funny - with all the mainstream looking IDIOTS in schools that people assume pink hair means you're not serious about education.

[mondo joe]

283. That's just stupid. When I was 16 I had a white mohawk. I got mostly A's

went to a fine private college, hold a professional position and have 2 children who are each the highest acheivers in their respective classes.

So don't tell me having unusual hair reflects on how seriously one takes school, because you don't know what you're talking about.

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BearClaws]

221. IF...

Let's say you made an appointment with a new doctor for a very personal examination because you were suffering health problems.
You arrive at his office and open the door and he looks like this kid.
What would you think????
In our society there needs to be rules, regulation and conformity of some sort.
The kid may be a great kid, and I wouldn't call him a freak, but in my opinion the classroom is not the place for unlimited self expression.
A kid must learn this somewhere.

Would you wear that outfit to work?

[mondo joe]

222. If you don't like a doctor who looks like that YOU can choose to

go elsewhere.

What precisely about how he dresses do you think prevents him from learning?

[BearClaws]

223. Learning

That you cannot always dress provocatively and be successful is part of his education.

[mondo joe]

225. Then what you want him to learn is your subjective standard, not

facts.

[Bouncy Ball]

227. Tell me why unlimited self-expression, that doesn't hurt

the person expressing or anyone else, is a bad thing?

Tell me why?

And someone who works in a record store or in a band might very well wear that outfit to work. There's a store called Hot Topic in the mall where the employees have more facial piercings than I've ever seen. So what?

If the doctor is not a judgemental person, he will see the PATIENT, the PERSON, not the hair. Hair is nothing. Makeup is nothing. There's a person in there, and maybe, just maybe, this kid is challenging everyone who looks at him to SEE HIM.

Can YOU see past it? I can.

[mondo joe]

229. If we let people think their hair is their choice who knows what they'll

want to think is up to them next?

They might think their bodies are their own.

They might even want to make up their own minds about political issues rather than doing what they're told!

[Bouncy Ball]

230. Is THAT what this is about?

Geez. Aren't we all liberals here? I thought I was on DU....(looking around). Yes, I seem to be.

Although to be fair, I know a lot of people who are politically liberal, but who just haven't moved a lot of their political liberal thinking into other areas of life.

:shrug:

[mondo joe]

232. Funny how we want people to NOT conform to authority on political

issues like the war, like social security and the rest - but some want to teach them nothing BUT conformity when they're young.

[Bouncy Ball]

234. And that's SUCH a mixed message isn't it?

Hey you have two kids? I think I knew that, but I forgot. We seem to agree on a lot.

If I want my daughter (she's our only) to think for herself and question things, well that applies to everything. Although we do have parental authority, she can certainly ask any question she wants. Doesn't mean we have to answer it, LOL!

[mondo joe]

236. My kids are always encouraged take their own stand and to support it.

Sometimes family dinner is like a court room.

But it works for us. :-)

[Bouncy Ball]

239. I think it's the only way to raise kids.

I was raised to shut up and not ask questions (by my mom). But my liberal hippie stepdad sort of ruined that. He put the notion in my head that I should "question everything."

So I went to college, got away from my authoritarian mom, and started questioning everything. What a great experience that was. And is.

But because I was taught to always keep my mouth shut as a kid, never make waves, I was susceptible to abuse by others. I NEVER want that to happen to my daughter. So I've taught her to open her mouth and SPEAK UP.

It is actually really dangerous to put too much conformity into kids, I think. Too much doing and too little questioning. It makes them so vulnerable to abuses of power, plain old abuse, etc.

On edit, for anyone reading this, gasping, and thinking my daughter has no manners, etc. You can teach a kid to question things AND teach them normal social conventions, too. She's one of the most polite kids I've ever seen. She even says "how do you do?" and puts out her hand when introduced to people. It's a fine line, but it can be done.

[mondo joe]

231. One of my 9 year old's best friends had pink hair for a week

It didn't prevent anyone from learning.

And my daughter, who sits right next to her, remained a straight A student throughout the ordeal.

[Bouncy Ball]

233. HOW DID SHE MANAGE?????

Somehow the kids at my daughter's school have managed to not let their grades slip, despite her gender-busting haircut, skull and crossbones shoelaces and sometimes.....eccentric style of dress. (One day she looks like summer in New York, all cute and pink and khaki blazer and preppy, and another day she looks like some kind of deranged track star.....it's kind of odd, but I like that she has her own style, even in fourth grade...)

Once my daughter asked me what I would say if she wanted a mohawk. I said "fine as long as you were willing to deal with people freaking out over it."

She smiled and walked away. Never asked for a mohawk. She asked her dad and he said the same thing: "fine."

[mondo joe]

235. Since my daughter has gay parents she's no doubt a source of trouble

herself.

Maybe we should be made to not reveal ourselves at school since our existence might be distracting at the Future Worker Production Plant.

[Bouncy Ball]

237. Have you ever watched the Comedy Central show "Strangers with

Candy?" There was one episode where they were all covertly encouraged to work at the local plastic flower plant plant. LOL.

Gay parents, too? Whew. Subversives!

Well, our daughter has a mom who takes her and picks her up in a car with an HRC sticker (not that anyone around here knows what that is), a big ol "BUSH LIES, PEOPLE DIE! HOW MANY LIES CAN YOU TAKE?" sticker, one that says "HATRED is not a family value!" and a DU sticker.

I am well known, let's just say that (suburb of Dallas, Texas).

But I don't care, it's how I feel. And I've discovered a lot of teachers and parents who whisper to me that they feel the same way.

But why whisper, is my point. Say it out loud.

I'm rambling now, sorry. You sound like a fantastic dad. Are you raising them with your partner?

[mondo joe]

240. My kids are the most unfortunate of all: 4 parents,

Two moms, two dads, two houses on the same block.

When I think how I barely survived the burden of 2 parents I feel for my children.

[BearClaws]

241. It isn't wrong!

I do believe in personal freedoms.
I would be upset if my kid dressed like that in school, not because it is "wrong", but because the TRUTH is that in the society that we live in, you are judged by your appearance and you actions.
This judgement will have a definite bearing on your success in life.
LIKE IT OR NOT.
I want my kid to know that there are places and times where you can dress like that, raise as much hell as you want and not suffer the consequences.
In MY opinion school is just not one of those places.

[mondo joe]

244. And when this kid goes to work he can dress the part

You say "In MY opinion school is just not one of those places" where you can not suffer consequences but that's only because you want to CREATE the consequences.

In our society recial and sexual minorities don't get a fair shake - maybe we should start penalizing them in school for being minorities so they'll get used to it.

[EFerrari]

224. He looks like a tropical fish in drag as a teenager : )

WTF, these people don't have anything better to do than become faux fashion critics? He's a KID!

[Bouncy Ball]

228. HEAR HEAR.

:applause:

Bravo. He's a KID, exactly.

But don't you know we've got to BREAK THEM DOWN and MAKE THEM CONFORM YOUNG!!! LOL

To be honest, I love seeing people who look different. I get tired of seeing the same old, same old. Uniforms? Hell, almost all of us already wear uniforms every single day. We wear what we're "supposed" to wear, what's in style or what gets the least amount of attention. I understand that--I don't exactly dress in a way that would garner any attention.

Which maybe is why I enjoy seeing people who break out of that, who do look different. Who dare to say "I don't really give a shit what YOU think I should look like!"

Bravo to people like that.

[EFerrari]

243. Second that.

It's great to see kids with a PULSE, unWal-Marted up, and definitely using the wrong shade of pink.

:)

[Bouncy Ball]

245. I salute the "freaks" of the world!

LOL! And everyone who wears white shoes before Memorial Day and after Labor Day! Rock on Breakers of Silly Rules!

:D

[gulliver]

252. He's expressing himself. He's saying "I'm a demented asshole."

School dress and makeup standards are absolutely fine with me. Suppose he decided to wear yesterday's underwear inside-out on his head. Come to think of it, he would look better. This guy is why parents need to keep the ugly stick under lock and key.

[ashmanonar]

256. nice.

do you react that way to everyone you meet? judge them on their appearances instead of their personality or their intelligence or their spirit?

well, if you do, enjoy a very lonely and hated existence. :eyes::banghead:

[BearClaws]

264. Are you serious?

The context of your reply seems to insinuate that this guy had a shirt that didn't match his pants or that he wore the wrong color of socks.
Making yourself up like this (to this extreme)is supposed to cause a distraction, and was most certainly his intent.
He would be pissed if you didn't pay undue attention to him.
It's not fascism to identify an intentional disruptive act and remove the perpetrator.
Am I a freeper for thinking like this?

[mondo joe]

266. Identify and remove disruptive acts? Sounds like a Bush town hall.

Which other disruptors should be removed? Gays?

People who don't want to play along?

[BearClaws]

267. Apples and Oranges

[mondo joe]

268. Nope - apples and apples. The kid's pink hair isn't harming ANYONE

and it's as legitimately self expression as anything else. Ifyou want him removed just because you don't like it it's pretty sad, IMO.

[ashmanonar]

275. i don't know. are you a freeper?

you're the only one who can say.

as to the "perpetrator": did he violate any laws or rules by making his hair into a mohawk and making up his face? (the school can't seem to prove that he did, there's nothing on the books) is there a "no makeup" rule in force at the school? pretty hypocritical of them to call him on his makeup when female students and teachers can wear any they want.

we aren't mother bloody russia, and we don't remove "perpetrators" for being different. unless bushco's takeover is complete, this was america the last time i looked. we revel in our differences and our individuality, or at least we used to. i'd be more inclined to respect someone who didn't feel at all embarassed about looking different from everyone else, this kid has BALLS. i'm sorry you feel that he's a lawbreaker for being nonconformist.

maybe instead of vilifying the kid for having a mohawk, looking for attention as it were: why not find out why he's looking for attention? is he unhappy? wouldn't it be better to see if he wants a friend than the administration just kicking him out or suspending him because he's different?

[Bouncy Ball]

261. I'm so glad I don't look at other people the way you do.

So thankful, really.

[theboss]

281. I once didn't hire someone because of their shoes

For the record, don't interview with me with buddy shoes on a sunny day. It's a called a shoe-shine kit. Buy one.

So, yea, we all judge people on their appearance all the time.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

286. No we don't

ALL judge people on their appearance all the time. You may, but we ALL don't.

Thank God it wasn't you working at the hospital when I drove in there like a mad woman and jumped out of the car with a combination of blood and dirt on my stained to the hilt shirt and my worn out shorts and tennis shoes on that had seen their better days the day I was digging in the yard and the neighbors dog jumped the fence and bit my 7 year old in the face because I am quite convinced by your statements that you would have rushed to judgment based on my appearance and probably called the police as well as CPS because of of the way I looked. Because after all, we should judge based on appearance right?

[mondo joe]

291. Hire as you see fit. But this kid isn't being hired - he's FORCED to

attend school. That's all the more reason to protect his rights while he's in that setting.

[theboss]

292. Oh, the poor dear

Being made to attend school.

Well, I am sure he will be onto his career as a gas station attendent very soon and can then dress as he see fits.

[mondo joe]

293. Since he's made to attend school its important his RIGHTS are protected

there. Or are you one of those people who doesn't much care about civil rights?

[theboss]

295. I care very much about civil rights....

For a while, I thought I would end up working for the ACLU. But as I have stated repeatedly, minors don't have the same rights as adults. And those rights are even further limited in school.

I don't see this as a true civil rights issue. It's a dress code issue.

[mondo joe]

298. Minors don't have to have the SAME rights as adults - they do have rights

In Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District , the Supreme Court said that students "do not shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." The court ruled that Iowa public school officials violated the First Amendment rights of several students by suspending them for wearing black armbands to school.

[ashmanonar]

258. self-expression is a marvelous thing.

unless there was a WRITTEN rule against this very practice in the rulebook of the school, then they can't do shit. even if there was, the religious angle could make it legit anyways.

i think he's much like people i knew AND know now. he just enjoys being different. bloody let him.

[TXlib]

259. my $0.02

From the article:

School officials were unable to cite any reference to makeup in school regulations or the California Education Code. They pointed to a section of the school's Student and Parent Handbook on dress code tying the suspension to a paragraph saying that if clothing "creates a safety hazard ... or when the dress constitutes a serious and unnecessary distraction to the learning process or tends to disrupt campus order,' the student is in violation.

My guess is if he wore black lipstick only, he wouldn't face this problem. However, they should just send him home, rather than suspend him.

But the pink mohawk and excessive eye makeup really are distracting. He looks a bit like an evil clown.

When I was in HS, a girl in my class was sent home for having the Tammy Fae Bakker look. Really excessive blue eye makeup. She really looked like a clown, and it was distracting. I thought the decision was appropriate then, and I think the school has a right to make 'judgement' decisions about what crosses the line. It's not merely wearing makeup; it's wearing it in a manner calculated to draw undue attention to oneself.

I am reminded of an incident shortly after i began grad school. I was on the bus, and this young girl got on a stop after mine. She had her hair cut very short, and dyed fluorescent lime green. She looked like a tennis ball. She also had an incredible amount of steel in her face.. many, many piercings.

Her look was a lot of information to take in, so naturally, my eyes lingered, counting the piercings, etc. Suddenly, I realised she was glaring at me. As my eyes met hers, she said, "What the hell are you staring at?!" My reply? "Somebody who obviously wants the attention."

[Bouncy Ball]

262. ...

Why does it always have to be about attention? Yeah, for a younger kid they may enjoy the knee-jerk reaction they get from adults (and it never fails to get one, believe me), but from someone in graduate school, it couldn't just be that she LIKED that look, could it?

It's expression. People do it in a lot of different ways, but it seems if they dare to do it in a non-traditional way, they get called "freak" (not by you but by others on this thread), get ostracized (literally in this student's case), made fun of, marginalized.

And for what? It's HAIR and MAKEUP. Big deal.

And as I've said a million times on this thread, in schools in which this is allowed, the kids hardly bat an eye. In fact, "crazy" looks actually taper off in schools like that.

[yorgatron]

263. hey kid!

right the fuck on!!! :yourock:

[MADem]

278. "Somebody who obviously wants the attention."

You got that right!

I have to laugh at people who get "mad" when they are way off the bell curve and someone has the audacity to NOTICE!

Individuality is nice, but when it is so contrived to border on the absurd, there's something else going on, and it smells like a need for attention to me!

[haggard]

288. wow!!!!

this kid has a right to do as he wishes, the school has no right to do this.

[name not needed]

277. Who fucking cares?

Hey, if he wants to look like the bastard child of David Bowie and Glenn Danzig, more power to him. Cause I really don't give a shit.