Pandemic flu virus "accidentally" shipped worldwide - HOW AND WHY???

[Nothing Without Hope]

Previous DU threads on the "accidental" flu virus release - none with more than 1 vote so far:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3477789
Title: "700 labs worldwide are mistakenly shipped lethal flu virus - MIHOP?"
Interesting things like company officers selling off stock in the company that manufactured the virus being posted in the replies to this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1389640
Title: "Labs Urged to Destroy Pandemic Flu Strain"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3472347
Title: WTF? Will Our Own Labs Be The Source Of The Next Flu Pandemic???

BIG STORY TODAY - EVEN FOX NEWS IS COVERING IT:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153408,00.html

Lawmakers Question Biological Security

Thursday, April 14, 2005, By Liza Porteus

NEW YORK — As thousands of scientists around the world destroy a deadly flu (search) strain accidentally sent to thousands of labs for testing, lawmakers on Capitol Hill questioned just how such a potentially disastrous move could have been made and what it means for America's security.

In a letter sent to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff (search), Rep. Edward Markey (search) on Wednesday asked how such a dangerous strain of the flu could have been put in motion and what could be done to prevent the virus from falling into the hands of potential terrorists and how to stop any further security breaches.

Click here to read Markey's letter (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/markey_flu.pdf).

"How did a deadly virus get mailed like a postcard to 3,700 laboratories?" the Massachusetts Democrat asked. "If the H2N2 virus is released and infects even one person, it has the potential to spread like wildfire and wreak havoc across the world. I am extremely concerned about the consequences of sending this virus to thousands of unsuspecting and unprepared laboratories that may not be equipped to recognize or handle such a dangerous virus."

Markey, a member of the House Homeland Security Committee, also planned on asking Chertoff in person how such an incident can be avoided in the future.

(snip)

HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY HAVE HAPPENED "ACCIDENTALLY"? "MISTAKES" LIKE THIS JUST DON'T HAPPEN IN COMMERCIAL LABORATORIES - SOMEONE MUST HAVE DELIBERATELY PRODUCED A BATCH OF THIS PARTICULAR VIRUS FOR INCLUSION IN THE KIT. IT IS NOT WHAT WAS REQUESTED.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=668821

Feds at Loss on How Flu Strain Got to Labs

Opinions Conflict on Whether Flu Strain Purposely Included in Test Kits

By KEVIN FREKING Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON Apr 14, 2005 — Federal officials are still at a loss to explain how a potentially deadly strain of influenza could be sent to more than 4,000 labs around the world.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is operating under the presumption that the H2N2 strain was purposefully included in the panels designed to test the labs' proficiency in identifying viruses.

"I'm sure it was not an inadvertent use," said Dr. Julie Gerberding, CDC director, "because it would be almost impossible to believe that they didn't know they were dealing with H2N2."

The samples were sent, beginning in September, as part of a testing process that measures a laboratory's proficiency in detecting various strains of influenza. The College of American Pathologists directs the testing and contracted with Meridian Bioscience Inc., a company based in Cincinnati, to distribute the test panels.

(snip)

THE STORY IS NOW ALL OVER THE WORLD - HERE IS THE CURRENT LIST AT GOOGLE NEWS:

http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&gl=us&ncl=http://www.krqe.com/expanded.asp%3FID%3D9529

THIS STORY FROM THE GUARDIAN UNLIMITED (UK) SHOWS WHAT A FLUKE IT WAS THAT THESE "ACCIDENTALLY" SHIPPED VIALS OF VIRUS WERE DETECTED AT ALL. These vials containing lethal pandemic flu virus were shipped out LAST OCTOBER and just happened to be discovered by a complete fluke by a young technician in Canada. It was detected because of cross-contamination of samples, which certainly indicates that this person could easily have contaminated himself if his sterile technique was even a bit more sloppy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,11381,1459207,00.html

Scientists hunt thousands of vials of deadly flu virus sent across world

Strain not seen since 1957 could pose danger to laboratory staff
Sarah Boseley, Luke Harding and Suzanne Goldenberg
Thursday April 14, 2005

(snip)

Yesterday, it emerged that the potentially deadly distribution was discovered only through a combination of luck and human error at a laboratory in Vancouver, Canada. The original mistake was made in October last year in Northfield, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, home to the headquarters of the College of American Pathologists.

The college sends out standardised flu testing kits to labs around the world, each containing vials of different strains of flu virus to enable technicians to ensure that their own testing equipment and reagents are working properly. This time included with the modern strains of flu virus was the killer Asian flu known as H2N2.

(snip)

John Oxford, a professor of virology at the Queen Mary School of Medicine in London, said this could pose a problem to the labs that received the testing kits: "You tend to give this kit to the youngest, most unqualified person because it is all very simple," he said. "That young person is the most susceptible. Anyone younger than 36 or 37 would have no immunity."

(snip)

FINALLY, THE STORY WOULDN'T BE COMPLETE WITHOUT A DENIAL OF REASON FOR CONCERN BY A "TOP US HEALTH OFFICIAL":

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1113452645413B221

US downplays risk of lethal flu virus

April 14 2005 at 11:01AM

Washington - A top United States health official has sought to play down the risk of the spread of a lethal flu virus that was accidentally distributed to thousands of laboratories worldwide.

The virus has not been detected in individuals in the US and poses a very low threat of likely transmission, said Julie Gerberding, director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

(snip)

ed:typo

[unhappycamper]

1. Recommended.

I've posted on this issue before, and have nothing new to add.

[whistle]

2. To hear the CDC Director tell it, it was just an "innocent error".....

....Well, I'm leaning toward a "big fuck-up" and heads need to roll starting at the top.

[paineinthearse]

10. Bull*****

I have worked in class 1 (pharmaceutical) & 3 (device) environments and there is not way this could have been an "accident". There are critical process and record controls.

IF (and that is a big if) it happened by accident, the error should have been caught within 24 hours via inventory cycle counting. Drugs at this level are critical and are counted on a daily basis.

[enki23]

3. maybe it wasn't accidental

maybe it was just an ill-advised choice for the latest round robin unknown sample, and they'd rather say it was an accident than admit they just didn't consider the potential consequences.

[Nothing Without Hope]

14. No, it was NOT chosen. The Amer College of Pathologists asked for a

a different strain and that is what the kit documentation said it contained. This was NOT a "bad choice" and in my opinion - and I was in biotech for a decade - it was no accident. It would not have been detected at all but for a total fluke - see the Guardian Unlimited article linked to in the OP for just how unlikely the good luck of the discovery was.

[enki23]

18. ah, dammit. i should have researched this better

that's just weird.

[Nothing Without Hope]

20. Yes, it IS weird. What in the world really happened and why?

Even the lab workers at Meridian say they thought they were working with a different strain. (see the article cited in this reply in the current thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3479632) The company is claiming that they got this virus sample "third hand" and never confirmed its identity before putting it in these kits that were sold and shipped worldwide. If you've been in corporate biotech, you know that's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

[Ladyhawk]

59. Question: if these virus samples were sent for identification...

...in order to test lab equipment, why wouldn't it have been detected the normal way?

(Sorry, I didn't read all the articles.)

[Nothing Without Hope]

65. I recommend that you read this particular article, cited downthread

It's the clearest in terms of the chain of events in Canada and how these samples were tested and used. You'll have a much better grasp on this afterwards:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3482183

DU Post Title (reply # 50): "Canadian article gives more detail on what happened - good piece"

Cited article title: "Vancouver lab mishap alerted world to flu pandemic risk: Potentially deadly strain shipped to 4,000 labs in 18 countries"

[sharonking21]

108. You seem to be knowledgeable re: labs

I am not. However, one of the epidemiologists who used to work for me was a former microbiologist laboratorian. He always snorted when people placed so much faith in the results of any single lab test, because he said most of them are subject to some kind of human error, either in interpretation, handling, labeling, logging, procedures, shipping etc. Not that he thought they were generally incorrect--it is just that he knew from experience all the things that could go wrong.

Why couldn't the Cincinnati lab have accidentally mislabeled it? Would the Meridian lab go through the process of actually checking to see if the strain matched what was on the label before sending it out? Exactly what is the normal procedure in this kind of endeavor--on both ends?

[Nothing Without Hope]

117. Your questions are good ones - we need to get more answers

Why couldn't the Cincinnati lab have accidentally mislabeled it? Would the Meridian lab go through the process of actually checking to see if the strain matched what was on the label before sending it out? Exactly what is the normal procedure in this kind of endeavor--on both ends?

These are all good questions. All we know at this time is that sometime before 2004 sample(s) of the 1957 Asian pandemic H2N2 inluenza strain were mislabeled as H3N2. According to what at least one spokesperson said, Meridian got this sample THIRD HAND; it came from a company, which got it from another company. I find it dificult to believe that the sample would not have been checked to confirm its identity before shipping it all over the world; this is a part of the story that I get stuck on. A friend has commented "Never underestimate how sloppy some individuals can be," and that's true, but this is a human pathogen (even the H3N2) under strict FDA-regulated QA/QC being shipped worldwide as a reference strain.

[not systems]

4. For an interesting listen...

Creating the Next Pandemic. The Avian Flu

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=116623

[Ladyhawk]

61. If Asian Flu and Avian Flu both reached epidemic levels...

...might one person catch both, introducing the two virii to each other and perhaps creating a mutant strain?

Educate me.

[Turn CO Blue]

70. We have always been at war with the Avian Flu...

[not systems]

73. I think it would be a moot point if it came to that...

the interesting thing in the audio program is the idea that
bio-warfare is being prepared as a provocation for
martial law.

[Nothing Without Hope]

75. Yes, that's something I'm very concerned about

These guys have a history of staging things and then using the resulting panic or fear or anger or whatever to get what they want.

[Terran]

5. Kick n/t

[kittenpants]

6. oh crap! I accidentally handled a deadly virus and mailed it out...

500 fucking times! oops, sorry!

[Turn CO Blue]

69. More like, "I accidentally and painstakingly prepared 3700

samples, incorrectly labeled them (with 3700 labels) and then mailed them out! Oops!"

[Avalux]

7. Here'ssome info I've learned -

Meridian Biotech Inc.'s subsidiary Viral Antigens Inc. (VAI) performs contract services for Biodefence and Emerging Infections (BEI) Resources. BEI has a bioterrorism grant from the NIH.

Coincidence?

I would think a company working with the government on bioterrorism would be a bit more careful than "accidentally" allowing H2N2 to be added to a diagnostic kit sent all over the world.

[Frederik]

41. so...

were they going to blame this one on Iran?

[Carolab]

79. That's not all. Take a look at Edwin Meese's company, Hadron.

And its involvement in "bioterror".

Also check out Jerome Hauer's involvement in anthrax/bioterror, and the CIA:

http://www.healingcelebrations.com/The%20CIA%20and%20the%20West%20Nile%20Virus.htm

<snip>

Summary and Conclusions

It is known, in military circles, as the “Russian biological cocktail.” I suppose it’s so named by the Americans who invented it. This method of choice of incapacitating and eliminating excess or targeted populations calls for the delivery of combinations of chemicals and biological agents—so called “co-factors.” This makes diagnosis and treatment of these multiple simultaneous exposures/intoxications/infections difficult, if not impossible. Thus waged, biochemical warfare cannot be traced to its source, and affords the ability to deliver economic and “non-lethal” substitutes for traditional warfare. For instance, creating the West Nile virus outbreak(s) and associated propaganda produces a market for ameliorative products and services—pesticide sprayings and costly pharmaceuticals. The full benefits of this common contemporary military practice are discussed at length elsewhere.9, 10

Given this background, it is absurd to believe, as many foolish Internet surfers apparently do, that pesticide sprayings for the West Nile virus, or “chemtrail” sprayings that suddenly obscure previously blue skies, represent an earnest effort to protect or immunize the masses against biological attacks. Such deceptive reasoning and communications merely serve a Hegelian dialectic—to confuse the issues at hand. Ultimately, such baseless unscientific arguments shield the perpetrators of these ongoing atrocities—largely the global petro-chemical–pharmaceutical cartel.

In short, what is being conducted in the name of “public health” and “national security” is biological and chemical weapons applications reminiscent of Nazi atrocities, and the propaganda mechanisms used to disguise them. These are apparently ongoing to fulfill economic, political, and ideological objectives. Who, in essence, makes more money by waging war and delivering disease and death to Americans than the Rockefeller family? Who, in the US has recognized the urgent need to reduce native and world populations, and has put their money to this task, more than the Rockefellers? Finally, who believes more firmly that “useless eaters,” including “dysgenic” races of humans, should be managed to extinction more than those who initiated the eugenics movement—the world’s first “racial hygiene program”—on American soil. Indeed, no one embraces these concerns more vigorously than the Rockefeller family, the Royal Family of England, and America’s royalty and Nazi collaborators—the Bush family.11

The media heralds the completion of the “Human Genome Project”—the contemporary name substitute for “eugenics.” The movement to establish “racial hygiene” and control over global populations and human evolution almost a century ago, by advancing the overlapping fields of chemistry, genetics, and pharmaceutics, is now fulfilling its mission. Are we experiencing “a kinder and friendlier . . . New World Order,” in the words of Past President George H.W. Bush? Or more importantly and realistically, are we still able to awaken from this nightmare?

<snip>

[elehhhhna]

98. Don't forget Giuliani's bio-terror cleanup company--

what does he know that we don't? Why specialize on Anthrax removal, etc.? Growth industry?

[not systems]

8. "accidentally distributed to thousands of laboratories worldwide"

I don't believe it.

Why did this sit in storage for 49 years only to be replicated
into thousands of samples and cast to the wind.

It doesn't make sense.

[Richard D]

9. Not that I'm paranoid . . .

. . . but it would make sense if some of thei vials "accidently" fell into the hands of "terrorists" who subsequently released them into the biosphere.

[bloom]

11. Ok - here's a tinfoil idea...

Maybe they (US gov't "they") want a clampdown on labs - like an excuse for them to get in there and control stuff. :shrug:

There's got to be something.

:tinfoilhat:

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. Yes, that is EXACTLY what they are asking for now.

I believe this was MIHOP - either they get a dangerous epidemic that no one can trace or the "mistake" is noticed. Both ways the administration can argue that it needs more control - which is fine as long as it doesn't ALSO mean more SECRECY, which with this bunch is a given.

[Turn CO Blue]

72. A whole new meaning to the phrase, "OCTOBER Surprise"!

The sample kits were mailed out in October, after all.

:tinfoilhat: (a tinfoilhat moment, above)

[paineinthearse]

12. Senate Commerce, Science and Technology Committee

Get this to the chair/ranking member. Even better if your state's senator is a member.

http://commerce.senate.gov/

Contact by web - http://commerce.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm
Contact by phone -
[phone] (majority)
[phone] (minority)

MEMBERS:

DEMOCRATS

Daniel K. Inouye - Hawaii
Hart 722 202-224-3934

John D. Rockefeller IV - West Virginia
Hart 531 202-224-6472

John F. Kerry - Massachussetts
Russell 304 202-224-2742

Byron L. Dorgan - North Dakota
Hart 322 202-224-2551

Barbara Boxer - California
Hart 112 202-224-3553

Bill Nelson - Florida
Hart 716 202-224-5274

Maria Cantwell - Washington
Hart 717 202-224-3441

Frank Lautenberg - New Jersey
Hart 324 202-224-3224

E. Benjamin Nelson - Nebraska
Hart 720 202-224-6551

Mark Pryor - Arkansas
Russell 217 202-224-2353

RETHUGS

Ted Stevens - Alaska
Hart 522 202-224-3004

John McCain - Arizona
Russell 241 202-224-2235

Conrad Burns - Montana
Dirksen 187 202-224-2644

Trent Lott - Mississippi
Russell 487 202-224-6253

Kay Bailey Hutchison - Texas
Russell 284 202-224-5922

Olympia Snowe - Maine
Russell 154 202-224-5344

Gordon Smith - Oregon
Russell 404 202-224-3753

John Ensign - Nevada
Russell 364 202-224-6244

George Allen - Virginia
Russel 204 202-224-4024

John Sununu - New Hampshire
Russell 111 202-224-2841

Jim DeMint - South Carolina
Hart 825 202-224-6121

David Vitter - Louisiana
Hart 825A 202-224-4623

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Adding from today's WP (born after '68, completely susceptible)

Flu Strain Samples Remain at Large
Health Officials Race to Tighten Rules

By Rob Stein and Shankar Vedantam
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 14, 2005; Page A03

At least four countries and more than 1,500 U.S. laboratories reported they had destroyed all their samples of a dangerous flu virus that had been shipped around the world, but thousands of others remained unaccounted for yesterday as health authorities in 18 countries intensified efforts to prevent a deadly outbreak.

U.S. officials were investigating the cause of the mishap and racing to tighten restrictions on the handling of particularly dangerous flu strains while international health officials kept close watch for any sign of lab employees coming down with the flu....

***

The same strain of virus killed 1 million to 4 million people, including 70,000 in the United States, in the 1957-58 Asian flu pandemic. The virus has not been seen outside labs since 1968.

"Anyone born after 1968 would not have had any exposure to this and would be completely susceptible," Gerberding said. "We are doing everything we can to make sure this virus does not infect an individual or spread to the public at large."...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50287-2005Apr13.html

[DistressedAmerican]

15. EXCELLENT Update! Nominated!

I Am glad someone has been seroiusly following up on tis story. It is HUGE NEWS. and it got pretty well ignored yesterday. I hope folks are starting to pay attention! Thanks again!

[DistressedAmerican]

29. Kick!

[Nothing Without Hope]

17. Another good article with more technical details from the Boston GLobe:

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/diseases/articles/2005/04/14/flu_error_prompts_promise_of_controls

Flu error spurs pledge on controls

Government moves to reassure public there's no danger

By Stephen Smith, Globe Staff  |  April 14, 2005

(snip - note I've removed the parts about the asking for more controls)

Starting last September, a version of Type A flu called H2N2 was sent to labs, including facilities in Massachusetts, as part of routine quality assurance tests. Labs receive unlabeled material and try to identify it, sending their results to private professional organizations that issue a grade.

The labs assume that the sample will be a strain in recent circulation. Instead, labs received H2N2, a variety not in wide circulation in the United States since 1968.

The College of American Pathologists, a professional organization, is the largest provider of proficiency-testing kits to labs across the nation and certifies those labs. Dr. Jared N. Schwartz, an officer of the pathologists' association, said yesterday that the group had contracted with a Cincinnati company, Meridian Bioscience Inc., to make the kits.

Schwartz said that Meridian was told to include Type A flu virus for testing and that the pathologists assumed the company would use a strain in recent circulation. That's desirable, he said, because most people have immunity to recent strains.

(snip)

[Nothing Without Hope]

19. Company that made the virus is making claims that seem IMPOSSIBLE to me

Speaking as a biotech-experienced PhD cell biologist/cell biologist, I do not believe the explanation cited in the article below. The company lab techs would not have put anything into an official kit that had not been subjected to standard analysis procedures confirming its sequence and identity. From this story, they are saying they got it third hand and never even confirmed its identity before putting it into a very tightly regulated (The QA/QC regulations are very strict) kit sent to thousands of laboratories worldwide.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS EXPLANATION - GIVEN MANDATED QA/QC PROTOCOLS AND STANDARD LAB PRACTICE, THERE'S JUST NO WAY THAT NO ONE CHECKED SOME "THIRD HAND" VIRUS STRAIN BEFORE SENDING IT OUT AS THEY CLAIM.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/236694-9494-010.html

Firm that sent deadly flu had thought it safe

'Germ library' virus distributed for tests was obtained third-hand, pathologist says.

Associated Press, April 14, 2005
 
NEWTOWN, Ohio -- The company at the center of distress over its shipment of samples of a killer flu virus to thousands of labs apparently wasn't even aware it had sent such a deadly strain.

The College of American Pathologists, which helps labs do proficiency testing, had asked Meridian Bioscience in suburban Cincinnati to send test kits of germs to about 4,700 labs -- mostly in the United States, but also in 17 other countries. Meridian makes such kits for labs to verify their testing accuracy.

Dr. Jared Schwartz, an officer with the pathologists college, said Meridian thought it had sent an ordinary flu strain. He said Meridian workers found a virus in their "germ library" from the year 2000 that they'd gotten from another company, which had obtained it from yet another company.

According to Meridian's process and evaluation, the workers thought it was "an innocuous, typical influenza A virus, the kind of virus they've used before in our programs," Schwartz said.

(snip)

[Avalux]

22. Mislabeled?

I agree with you. I do not believe such an error occurred - just doesn't seem possible QA didn't catch it.

For what it's worth, here's info on the company and it's ties to the federal government:

Meridian Biotech Inc.'s subsidiary Viral Antigens Inc. (VAI) performs contract services for Biodefence and Emerging Infections (BEI) Resources.

BEI holds a bioterrorism grant from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).


Thoughts?

[Nothing Without Hope]

23. Bioterrorism grants are very common - it's a major funding source

for academics and companies in related areas. You write grants on topics for which there is funding, ergo there are lots of bioterrorism-related grants. Meridian is a small company and it would be surprising if they DIDN'T apply for this kind of support. That in itself is not a major red flag to me, though it would be interesting to see what they applied for.

I would like to know more about the rumors of company officers selling off their stock - cited in replies in the first of the three earlier DU threads I mention in the OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3477789

I'm going out now until the late afternoon - I'll check for updates then. I hope people keep this kicked and visible. We need to find out what really happened. Not for a minute do I believe this company got a virus sample third-hand and then shipped it out without confirming its identity. Absolutely NO WAY, even moreso for a company with its strict QC and Regulatory requirements than with academics, who are more likely to be careless.

[tavalon]

54. I know you are right

Having said that, I'm left with a conundrum. They put it in there purposely and therefore there was some sort of reason/plan. What the fuck were they trying to accomplish?

[Nothing Without Hope]

62. I think it's too soon to know whether this truly was a deliberate plan

We have to find out how this amazingly careless "accident" happened. The investigation must be expert, thorough, aggressive and transparent. If it was a deliberate, sinister plan, there are lots of possible goals, but I am refusing to go down that dark alley until we know more. The thing now is to be sure the right questions are asked, that they are answered fully and truthfully, and that the truth is made public.

AND - we cannot let the incident be used to justify a widening and solidification of "Homeland Security" and the Patriot Act.

[Kool Kitty]

76. Okay, this is what I think.

I think they sent these samples out to start everyone off on another "be afraid, here comes the boogeyman" bout of hysteria. An excuse to isolate people or communities, perhaps? Stupidity on the part of the ones that sent this stuff out? Perhaps. Some people getting infected with this and then we all have to get a shot of some new "miracle" flu shot? (Making lots of money for the big drug cartel-remember Tommy Thompson and his involvement with the company that makes Cipro and all the hype about anthrax?) And I think a bit of it is what you mentioned in the last line of your post-widening and solidifying the Patriot Act and the seemingly-useless "Homeland Security" department.

[Nothing Without Hope]

77. It's possible, but would people fearful of disease turn to the Bush Cartel

the anti-science meatheads?

I can see it as a pipeline to terrorists and/or an excuse to beef up Homeland Security/Patriot Act provisions. There are so many possibilities and so little data to constrain them yet. Right now, we need to find out how it happened, if possible why it happened, and WHERE ALL THAT WORLDWIDE-DISTRIBUTED PANDEMIC VIRUS IS.

[Henny Penny]

123. Population reduction.

There is an interview with Dr Stephen Mumford in the a Dutch documentary on skull and bones. (linked below)

He had written a book on the effects of over population and got to meet with Poppy Bush in Huston. He presented Bush with a 2 page synopsis of what was in the book. Mainly the idea that overpopulation was the biggest threat to US security in the world.

Bush apparently read the two pages and said "I agree with you and can assure you, so do the CIA."

The documentary is Skull and Bones Part1, this interview is in minute 37.
It can be downloaded from:

http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_elitesecretsocieties.htm

It is interspersed with Dutch commentary, but well worth checking out.

[understandinglife]

21. Recommended. Excellent summary. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (a day to reflect on all the many forms of damage to humanity inflicted by the theocratic neoconsters)

[paineinthearse]

24. Good news

This thread has the attention of Senator Kerry's science and commerce staffer!

[Nothing Without Hope]

26. Thanks! Please give us any feedback. I'll keep updating this thread

with new info that comes in. I am going out now for several hours. When I return, I will check the web for updates.

I have decades of experience as a PhD biochemist/cell biologist. That includes many years in hands-on virology and a decade as a principal scientist in a major biotech firm. For once, I feel my background is suited to the story. I'll try to keep up with it and continue to post updates.

[Avalux]

27. I have a phone number

If you are in contact with John Kerry's staff, please pass it along -

513-271-3700
John A. Kraeutler, President
Meridian Bioscience Inc.

Richard Eberly is the General Manager.

[Daphne08]

30. We also need an honest investigation into the compelling story

of the deaths of so many of the world's top microbiologists.

These deaths could simply be coincidence; however, it is a story which deserves the attention of reputable investigative reporters, etc.

[Nothing Without Hope]

31. First I've heard of this - do you have any documentation, links? n/t

[ReadTomPaine]

32. Here are some DU links discussing this...

There's a lot more info around regarding this topic - these were at the top of the search list. External links included within. Would love to hear your take on all of this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=594709

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1005141

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=508396

RTP

[Nothing Without Hope]

88. I haven't had time to read through these today

but will try to get to them later on. When I do, I'll let you know my opinion on them, for what it's worth.

[Daphne08]

34. I don't have any "reputable" links, no... and that's the problem.

I have no idea if this is a legitimate story or not, but I think it bears scrutiny by a serious, objective investigator. Many of us have been hearing rumors about this for years.

Right now, the story is in the realm of conspiracy theory and perhaps that's where it should remain.

It just seems like an odd coincidence to me, but as I stated originally, perhaps it is just that...coincidence.

Just google for deaths of microbiologists and you'll find plenty of links, but as I stated, care should be taken because most fall into the 'category of the weird.'

[LibertyorDeath]

103. The suspicious deaths of 11 of the world's leading microbiologists

Scientists' deaths are under the microscope

By ALANNA MITCHELL, SIMON COOPER AND CAROLYN ABRAHAM


Scientists' deaths are under the microscope

COMPILED BY ALANNA MITCHELL

Published on Saturday, May 4, 2002 in the Toronto Globe & Mail

It's a tale only the best conspiracy theorist could dream up.

Eleven microbiologists mysteriously dead over the span of just five months. Some of them world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others, experts in the theory of bioterrorism.

The first three died in the space of just over a week in November. Benito Que, 52, was an expert in infectious diseases and cellular biology at the Miami Medical School. Police originally suspected that he had been beaten on Nov. 12 in a carjacking in the medical school's parking lot. Strangely enough, though, his body showed no signs of a beating. Doctors then began to suspect a stroke.

Just four days after Dr. Que fell unconscious came the mysterious disappearance of Don Wiley, 57, one of the foremost microbiologists in the United States. Dr. Wiley, of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at Harvard University, was an expert on how the immune system responds to viral attacks such as the classic doomsday plagues of HIV, ebola and influenza.

more of this incredible tale here

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0504-06.htm

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. We have to get the truth behind this story - we haven't heard it yet n/t

[Avalux]

28. kick n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

33. New story in Forbes plays down potential danger - seems to conflict with

other reports on some significant points. The Forbes article is remarkable in how it makes this incident sound like a very innocent situation - done deliberately by experts and merely an error of judgement - that had almost no potential to harm anyone and broke no rules. Not only does this interpretation NOT convince me, the account of the relevant facts also appears to conflict with other reports on some significant points. For what it's worth, here is the Forbes article:

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/health/feeds/hscout/2005/04/14/hscout525143.html

U.S. Seeks Cause of Flu Virus Mix-Up

By Amanda Gardner, HealthDay Reporter
THURSDAY, April 14 (HealthDay News)

(snip)

According to the AP, Meridian took a sample from the pathology college's stockpile and selected the 1957 virus. Schwartz said the pathology college had received the strain from a "germ library" in 2000.

It's not entirely clear how the mistake happened, Schwartz said, but the virus strain was classified as a Biologic Safety (BS) level 2, meaning it could go to any laboratory performing general laboratory work.

(snip)

Dr. Nancy Cox, head of the CDC's influenza division, confirmed that the agency has drafted recommendations to upgrade this particular virus to level 3.

The organisms that were accidentally distributed to the labs around the world are used widely in research, which could include developing potential new vaccines or anti-viral drugs, Schwartz explained. They are also used in quality control or to verify if a new test actually works.

(snip)

This account appears to conflict with parts of others in a significant way. For example, other reports said that the lab workers at Meridian did not realize they were working with this virus and that the company got the virus from another company which in turn got it from another company. Those other reports did NOT say that this pandemic virus was deliberately chosen for the testing panel - in fact, the opposite was said. One of the unbelievable pieces in all this is that "third-hand" human pathogen virus was supposedly shipped all over the world without any attempt to confirm its identity. Corporate QA/QC does not work that way, and that is an understatement.

For example, compare the Forbes account with these excerpts:
From the Times (UK) article cited in the opening post:
A spokesman for the college (The American College of Pathologists) said that Meridian had been asked to ship a type A flu virus, and its paperwork indicated that the strain it had sent out was not dangerous. For reasons that neither the college nor the company understood, he told the Washington Post, the documentation had been incorrect.

And from the IndyStar article (cited in Reply 19):
Dr. Jared Schwartz, an officer with the pathologists college, said Meridian thought it had sent an ordinary flu strain. He said Meridian workers found a virus in their "germ library" from the year 2000 that they'd gotten from another company, which had obtained it from yet another company.

According to Meridian's process and evaluation, the workers thought it was "an innocuous, typical influenza A virus, the kind of virus they've used before in our programs," Schwartz said.

Clearly, there is still confusion in at least some quarters about what really happened. It's not clear whether this is legitimate confusion or whether some kind of coverup is brewing. It's too soon to tell. I hope the facts are straightened out soon and we get to the truth.

[Nothing Without Hope]

35. Long AP article on how dangerous pathogens are shipped and contained

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=671035

Flu Virus Debacle Sheds Light on Byzantine Shipping Path to Laboratories

By PAUL ELIAS

Apr 14, 2005 — Every day, deadly germs are shipped across the country and around the globe, right alongside the books, gourmet foods and birthday presents sent through FedEx and similar couriers. Often their journeys can be circuitous, too.

Follow, for instance, a single vial of the potentially deadly flu virus causing a world health scare because it was included in test kits sent to more than 4,000 laboratories. It was grown in a Virginia lab, spent time in a Cincinnati freezer and passed through a small medical company on the Mexican border before it finally arrived at a Milwaukee lab.

Health experts, government officials and the couriers insist the transportation of these germs is tightly regulated, and that the samples are heavily packaged and labeled to ensure safety. A catastrophic outbreak has never occurred as a result of such shipments.

"The safety level of the transport of biological material is incredibly high," said Dr. Jared Schwartz, a microbiologist and officer with the College of American Pathologists, which is in charge of the flu testing program. "I have no concerns about the safety of the transport."

(snip)

If you read the rest of this long article (it continues into two additional pages), you will see that not all agree with Dr. Schwarz's optimistic assessment of the safety of current transport protocols and also hear about "hot labs" being set up for research on dangerous pathogens that might be used as bioterror agents.

[LiberalCompassionate]

36. The original mistake was made in October last year

MIHOP> This explains why the Tri-State Area, (NY,NJ,CT) just finished a TOPOFF exercise. (TOPOFF - simulated emergency response by Top Officials to discover weaknesses in contingency plans on dealing with NBC weapons; coincidentally, this simulation had to due with an outbreak of "plague").


MIHOP This is just the cover story for something else in my opinion only, no facts, just on the history of this administration and its spin machine. :tinfoilhat:

[Nothing Without Hope]

39. I agree that it looks suspicious, but it's too soon to know whether

this was merely extravagantly, unimaginably (in fact, seemingly impossibly) careless or something more sinister/planned. If the latter, there are lots of potential scenarios of varying degrees of awfulness. For now, I think:

• We need to avoid speculating on all the possible conspiracy scenarios too much yet, because there are simply too many possibilities and too little data at this early stage. I'm not saying we should rule anything out without disproving evidence, I'm saying we should not assume the worst before we know more. Assuming the worst can make it more difficult to analyze information objectively - as a professional scientist I can tell you that you need to be MOST careful when you are testing your favorite theory.
  
• We should remain calm but determined to get to the TRUTH about what happened and why. The investigation should be thorough, well-designed and interpreted, transparent, and fast.
  
• We should be alert for and blast through any stonewalling that arises but not assume in advance that there IS deliberate stonewalling.

And thank goodness for that sloppy Canadian lab tech who got cross-contamination that was eventually tracked to this pandemic virus sample. If you read that Guardian Unlimited article, you'll be amazed at the sequence of events that led to the unmasking of the dangerous virus in the kit. He, or any of thousands of other people in other labs around the world, could have become accidentally exposed, with deadly consequences.

[Frederik]

42. Wise words

First, let's see what the official investigation will uncover.

[screembloodymurder]

67. Try reckless endangerment.

Why aren't these people being charged.

[Nothing Without Hope]

68. The investigation is just getting under way. That may well happen

but it's too soon to know for sure.

[Generic Other]

86. October was about the time when they ran out of flu shots

My fillings are starting to buzz.

[Nothing Without Hope]

37. RELEVANT WEB SITES: WHO Inflenza sites and home page of Meridian

The main influenza section of the World Health Organization:
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza
This page is full of links for more information over a range of related areas.

April 12 WHO statement on risk from the distributon of the H2N2 flu virus :
http://www.who.int/csr/disease/influenza/h2n2_2005_04_12/en
Statement title: "International response to the distribution of a H2N2 influenza virus for laboratory testing: Risk considered low for laboratory workers and the public"

WHO Fact Sheet on Influenza Virus:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en
General background on influenza virus and its variants. Not a lot of detail, but helpful as a start. If enough people want me to, I can do some digging and write a more informative article on the subject of influenza virus structure/function and history. In the meantime, I'll look around the web and see if I can find a more in-depth background article than the one at the WHO site.

Home page of Meridian Bioscience:
http://www.meridianbioscience.com

[Nothing Without Hope]

89. Also: Centers for Disease Control Flu home page & April 13 Advisory

Here is the CDC home page for influenza. Updates such as statements and news conference transcripts are on the right side: http://www.cdc.gov/flu
This page has links to many kinds of information about flu, such as background information on the biology of the virus as well as treatment, outbreak activity and current news.

Here is the April 13 CDC Health Advisory about the H2N2 flu virus distribution situation - note that it is an ADVISORY rather than an ALERT (see bottom of advisory for the three levels of CDC alert messages).

http://www.phppo.cdc.gov/HAN/ArchiveSys/ViewMsgV.asp?AlertNum=00227
This is an official
CDC HEALTH ADVISORY
Distributed via Health Alert Network
Wednesday, April 13, 2005, 20:50  EDT (8:50  PM EDT)
CDCHAN-00227-2005-04-13-ADV-N

CDC and WHO recommend that sample panels of influenza A/H2N2 be destroyed

CDC, HHS, and the World Health Organization are working with the College of American Pathologists (CAP) and other providers of proficiency testing panels (see below) to ensure that influenza A/H2N2 samples sent to U.S. laboratories and laboratories in 17 other countries are destroyed immediately. Information sent with these proficiency testing panels did not indicate that influenza A/H2N2 samples were included. The A/H2N2 samples sent out are similar to the A/H2N2 viruses that circulated in humans in 1957 at the beginning of the Asian influenza pandemic. Influenza A/H2N2 viruses continued to circulate widely in the human population until they disappeared upon the introduction of influenza A/H3N2 viruses during the 1968 Hong Kong influenza pandemic. Therefore, persons born after 1968 have no or only limited immunity against A/H2N2 strains. To date, no influenza A/H2N2 human cases among laboratory workers have been associated with distribution or handling of these proficiency testing panels. However, because of the potential risk associated with this particular strain, laboratories have been advised to immediately autoclave or incinerate and treat as potentially infectious and hazardous all materials retained or derived from these panels.

CAP, the American Association of Bioanalysts, the American College of Family Physicians and the American College of Physician Services all sent proficiency testing surveys containing one or more samples of A/H2N2 to approximately 6,500 labs in the United States. Proficiency testing panels containing A/H2N2 samples were also sent to laboratories in Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Japan, Lebanon, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan. The World Health Organization has informed the Ministries of Health in these countries.

Although there is low risk of infection of laboratory workers who use proper biosafety precautions, and historic data suggest that it is unlikely that a laboratory worker will have been infected, destruction of the samples is strongly recommended. Instructions for appropriate destruction of the A/H2N2 samples were distributed to the laboratories that received A/H2N2 samples. 

CDC remains in close communication with WHO, as well as the College of American Pathologists and other providers of proficiency testing panels, about the identification and destruction of the H2N2 panels of concern and will provide additional information as it becomes available.

##This Message was distributed to State and Local Health Officers, Public Information Officers, Epidemiologists, Lab Directors, WMD and HAN Coordinators as well as Public Health Associations and Clinician organizations##

Categories of Health Alert Messages:

Health Alert - Conveys the highest level of importance; warrants immediate action or attention.

Health Advisory - Provides important information for a specific incident or situation; may not require immediate action.

Health Update - Provides updated information regarding an incident or situation; unlikely to require immediate action.

[librechik]

38. Vials shipped Oct 2004, Bush "elected" Nov 04, therefore

no bioterror attack!
Good thing Kerry didn't win; we'd all be coughing our lungs up now!

[12345]

40. Yeah, but look at his approval rating.

Do you think they might get desperate?

[Nothing Without Hope]

43. Okay - it needs to asked: HOW ABOUT THE OTHER SAMPLES IN THE KIT?

It was only freakish luck that revealed that one of the supposedly routine, innocuous flu virus samples in the kit was a dangerous pandemic strain. Clearly, standard lab practice of indentifying the strains being worked with did not get done, which is amazing.

This has to raise concerns about the other virus samples in that kit as well as those in other kits sold by this company. And how about other companies' distributed virus samples? All these samples must have valid identification assay data available. Where these identifications have not been done, as at Meridian, the possibility that OTHER dangerous pathogens are hiding under an innocuous label must be ruled out.

It's a long shot that there's anything else dangerous out there, but this disaster has shown that it is possible. The stakes are far too high for any complacency about identification.

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. New article on Meridian Bioscience's history of FDA violations

You'd think, with a such a painful lesson in the importance of careful documentation and all the upgrades in protocols that resulted, this disaster could not have happened.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-meridian-fda,0,1261762.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

FDA Had Slammed Company That Shipped Flu

By Associated Press

April 14, 2005, 6:21 PM EDT

NEWTOWN, Ohio -- A company that shipped samples of a deadly flu virus to thousands of labs in testing kits was criticized by the government in 2001 for alleged lax controls that led to a product recall.

The Food and Drug Administration warned Meridian Bioscience Inc. about "serious regulatory problems" involving in-vitro diagnostic products made and distributed by Meridian.

The FDA said its inspection of Meridian's suburban Cincinnati manufacturing plant in late 2000 and early 2001 found that monitoring and tracking of components of the kits during manufacturing failed to meet federal requirements. There was inadequate documentation for product storage temperatures and product expiration dates, the FDA said in a June 2001 letter.

Meridian recalled 30 products, laid off about 50 employees and lost an estimated $9 million in sales. The company brought in consultants to help it correct the problems.

Company spokeswoman Brenda Hughes declined to comment Thursday.

(snip)

This time it was a LOT worse than "inadequate documentation for product storage temperatures and product expiration dates." And that was a huge hit for a small company in 2000-2001. I wonder how they managed to come back from that? And how, with such a painful lesson in the importance of full, accurate documentation, they managed to send a pandemic influenza virus all over the world? It seems to defy explanation.

[Avalux]

45. Yes it does -

Amazing. Just sent you a PM. :hi:

[deminks]

48. Don't forget the flu vaccine shortage from last year, either.

Not that this strain, H2N2, was in the flu vaccine, it wasn't. But there were many adults and children without any vaccine protection for several months. Sometimes the strain of influenza A in the current vaccine will help a little bit with other strains of influenza A that are circulating, but not in the vaccine. Not always, but sometimes it will help. But with the shortage, there were huge sections of the country without any protection. It could have been very bad, whether MIHOP, LIHOP, or just an accident.

[Avalux]

46. Errors Remain Murky - Commentary

This is one gigantic mess.....

Dr. Julie Gerberding, head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said labs doing proficiency tests generally only identify whether a flu virus is in the sample and whether it is a type A or B - not further sub-typing.

"That's why we didn't learn about this earlier in the process," she said.

So the deadly strain was in many labs for months before one lab discovered that the sample was the deadly H2N2 Asian flu virus from the 1957 pandemic.

The above description indicates that the 1957 H2N2 pandemic virus was mislabeled at some point between 1957 and 2004. This created confusion about the origins of the virus shipped out since last fall as part of a lab proficiency test. The recording error is supported by the paperwork associated with the shipments, which indicated the virus was H3N2. Since H2N2 was virtually eliminated from circulation in humans in 1968, it should not be in a library of viruses from 2000.

more....

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/04140504/H2N2_Murky_Label.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

74. This article is a very interesting technical analysis

(mods - this does obey the four-paragraph rule because the article includes an extensive quote from another article already covered elsehwhere in the thread)

(snip - excerpt from another published article)

The above description indicates that the 1957 H2N2 pandemic virus was mislabeled at some point between 1957 and 2004.  This created confusion about the origins of the virus shipped out since last fall as part of a lab proficiency test.  The recording error is supported by the paperwork associated with the shipments, which indicated the virus was H3N2.  Since H2N2 was virtually eliminated from circulation in humans in 1968, it should not be in a library of viruses from 2000.

Clearly the virus in the proficiency test was the H2N2 pandemic strain and destroying those samples should be relatively easy because they would be part of a well labeled and tracked kit.  However, finding and destroying or relabeling the pandemic strain that was mislabeled originally will be a challenge.  Reclassifying the virus will not help, because it appears to be currently labeled as something else with an H3N2 serotype from 2000.  Viruses in that category are relatively benign.  In contrast the H2N2 pandemic strain is quite transmissible in humans and those born after 1968 would have limited immunity.

There is widespread agreement that the virus in the kits should be destroyed and the mislabeled virus should be destroyed or properly labeled.

This situation has some obvious parallels with the controversy regarding the WSN/33 sequences reported to be in isolates from pigs in Korea in 2004....

(snip - A fascinating discussion of another incident - different but relevant - and the unsatisfactory way it was handled follows.)

[BamaBecky]

47. I saw this in the paper! They want to kill off a few million of us! n/t

[Avalux]

49. Explaining Avian Flu Virus and a Possible Pandemic

Here's a piece I wrote and originally posted in the Science Forum, but thought it might be helpful as part of this thread. Enjoy!

Here’s an unsolicited lesson in viruses and how they survive – particularly the influenza A virus causing the current outbreaks of avian flu. I’ll do my best to write an explanation without being too technical. Let me add a disclaimer here – no one can predict when a pandemic will occur but I do believe it is inevitable; either in a few years or as many as 50. As advanced as we humans are, we can’t stop mother nature - it's that pesky "E" word (evolution).

A virus is a parasite – it is comprised of genetic material enclosed in a protective coat. The genetic material may be DNA or RNA depending on the type of virus. The protective coat is called a capsid. Not only does it protect the genetic material inside, but the capsid also helps the virus infect host cells. Some viruses even have an additional outer envelope of proteins, sugars and lipids stolen from the host cell in which it has been made. The complete virus "particle" – genetic material, capsid and envelope (if it has one) - is called a virion.

We aren’t sure of the origins of viruses, but most virologists agree that each virus got started by copying a few useful genes from their host cells. Viruses are ignorant of any patent or copyright laws. They are brilliant at making copies out of whatever they find useful in the host’s genetic code and move on from there. The ‘useful’ gene that’s stolen is intimately involved in the host cell’s reproduction, food gathering, cell communication or other essential function. Viruses mutate the stolen genes and when a particularly useful mutation comes along, the virus uses it for it’s own survival, usually to the detriment of its host. Over many generations and years, viruses have the ability to switch over the other species, find new genes to copy and then continue evolving in their own selfish way.

The avian flu virus is an orthomyxovirus – it’s genetic material is RNA. When a virus with RNA replicates, the copies tend to have more errors than when a virus with DNA replicates. These extra errors provide mutations upon which natural selection may act. That means RNA viruses have a high mutation rate and can evolve quickly - faster than a DNA virus or any DNA cell. Over time these mutations accumulate and eventually the virus evolves into a new strain. This progressive accumulation of individual mutations is called antigenic drift. The shape of the viral protein (antigen) slowly drifts into a different shape with each generation of virus. Eventually they drift so much that the original antibody can no longer bind to it. That means a host can become infected with this newly evolved virus. All viruses show antigenic drift, but RNA viruses mutate faster so they drift faster. Antigenic drift is responsible for many of the localized outbreaks of different strains of influenza, especially influenza A and B. In practical terms, antigenic drift is the reason we need to develop a new flu vaccine every year for human influenza and why it’s never 100% effective.

Here’s where it get pretty amazing – influenza A. This virus has the ability to undergo a kind of gene swapping or genetic reassortment that other viruses do not have. If a host cell is simultaneously infected by two different strains of influenza A, the copies of the virion may contain mixtures of each parents' genes. This makes it very easy for influenza A to quickly evolve into new combinations of genes. This is called antigenic shift; a newly created virus strain with mixed genetic material that’s different from it’s parents. This phenomenon is different from antigenic drift which occurs slowly and without change in the gene associations. The new combinations are such a unique strain of virus that the immune system has to start all over to make new antibodies to combat it.

Influenza A can infect mammals other than humans including birds (avian flu). It's very unusual for a virus to have such a wide host range, but influenza A somehow manages this trick. It probably has to do with the fact that the virus gains entry to a host cell by using receptors common to many species. That means a strain of influenza A may infect one species for decades and then suddenly jump to a new species. This sudden jump, due to antigenic shift, can produce a very serious epidemic. For example, several years ago many seals washed up on the east coast of the US dying from a strain of influenza A that, until then, had only been found in birds. Horse and swine influenza A have turned up in humans. Influenza A is the nightmare of science fiction - a virus that normally causes only a slight illness, undergoes genetic recombination with other species and comes back as a very deadly virus.

We know that influenza A has been conducting random, unlicensed recombinant genetics "experiments" for centuries and will continue to do so regardless of what any of us try to do about it. We watch and wait. Avian influenza A virus has a very high mortality rate (about 75%) and that’s why the present scenario is so scary. If avian influenza A were to recombine with human influenza A within a host cell, it may give the virus the ability to pass from one human to another quite rapidly. This would cause a worldwide pandemic. We may be getting dangerously close to this reality as there were two documented cases of human to human transmission last year in Asia. Another significant change we’ve seen in bird to human transmission is the large amount of viral particles in respiratory secretions of birds where in the past the virus was only found in bird feces.

And when it comes to vaccines, there are obstacles to the rapid development of a vaccine for a pandemic outbreak. Flu vaccines are normally grown in chicken eggs, but this will not be useful because avian influenza A is deadly to the chicken embryo. The only other option will be to use ‘reverse genetics’, which involves merging selected genetic material from the natural virus with a laboratory virus, with the resulting virus stimulating an immune response, but no disease when injected into humans. This of course, is easier said than done.

I happen to respect viruses a great deal - they are amazing creatures. I ask myself frequently how a one-celled organism dependent on others for survival can be so smart – they always seem to be one step ahead of us.

My advice if an avian flu pandemic happens - stock up on supplies and stay home.

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. This is EXCELLENT - I hope everyone concerned about this event reads it

sparosnare has put an enormous amount of complicated information into a digestible form that emphasizes the points that are most relevant to the current disaster as well as longer-term fears about the inevitable next pandemic, whenever it may come.

[tavalon]

60. Quick question for you

With a little background as to why it's important to me. I have asthma (well controlled but it killed two of my relatives) and have always gotten the flu shot. Three years ago, I found out that the flu vaccine has something very dangerous in it and decided to stop taking the flu shot. Last year I got the flu and followed it up with pneumonia and nearly died. I tried to get the pediatric formulation of the flu shot this year but was unsuccessful. My solution was to use a N95 particulate respirator whenever I was in crowds (especially on airplanes). Is that a reasonable alternative?

[Nothing Without Hope]

63. I don't know - have you researched whether this mask keeps out

tiny droplets as from coughing and sneezing? The virus can be expelled in these droplets during coughing and sneezing, and then it can infect the upper respiratory tract of another person breathing them in.

There's some info on flu transmission and vaccines at the WHO influenza site and its links, cited in another post in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3481337

My recommendation would be to discuss your concerns in detail with your respiratory specialist. It sounds like you've got a choice in which both sides have risks, and he/she should be able to help you decide on the safer one for you.

[Avalux]

64. I am sorry for your illness -

and for your problems with the flu vaccine. To answer your question - the N95 particulate respirator is recommended per WHO guidelines, so it is a reasonable alternative. Remember too - flu virus can get into the body from hand to eye contact - a lot of times that's how children get it. So be careful to keep hands washed and not touch your face.

[Nothing Without Hope]

50. Canadian article gives more detail on what happened - good piece

I recommend reading the entire article to get the full picture of the timing and sequence of events. It gives the most detail and background and is the clearest on what happened after the vial was opened in Canada of any I have seen yet. Amazing: these virus samples were intended for being used TO PRACTICE viral typing. That means that relatively inexperienced, probably young (and thus fully susceptible) lab personnel anywhere in the world could have been exposed, and with today's rapid air transit, I shudder at what might have resulted. At a time before common air travel, "only" up to 5 million people died from this virus back before it disappeared from human populations.

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=77f9ea35-bec7-448d-b99f-9660ce3522e1

Vancouver lab mishap alerted world to flu pandemic risk

Potentially deadly strain shipped to 4,000 labs in 18 countries
Pamela Fayerman, Vancouver Sun
Thursday, April 14, 2005

A chain of events that began in a microbiology laboratory in a Vancouver hospital may have helped avert a global pandemic when it was discovered last month that a potentially deadly flu strain had been shipped to 4,000 labs worldwide.

(snip - most of the long article omitted here)

B.C. public health officials said Wednesday it is not believed any laboratory workers or other citizens in the province -- or indeed anywhere in the world -- have contracted the H2N2 influenza strain, which was contained in vials shipped to labs from the United States. The vials containing live virus were produced by a Cincinnati-based test-kit maker and shipped by the College of American Pathologists in February so that lab workers could gain proficiency at typing viral strains for accreditation purposes.

The H2N2 strain hasn't circulated in the world since 1968, so anyone born after that time would have no immunity to it, raising the spectre that if people suddenly did become exposed to it, a pandemic could result. H2N2 is considered one of five candidates for an influenza pandemic.

Dr. Perry Kendall, B.C.'s top public health official, said when the vials were shipped, they were improperly labelled as A/Shanghai, related to the influenza strain that has been circulating in North America this past winter. Kendall said it was "neither sensible nor wise" to send the H2N2 subtype and it was also "unacceptable to mislabel the vials."

(snip)

Have to appreciate the deadly deliberate understatement in the last paragraph: "neither sensible nor wise" and "unacceptable to mislabel the vials."

[HeeBGBz]

51. So where are the remaining samples?

Who did they go to? How many have they gotten back?

This is creepy. I hope everyone dogs this story down to the ugly truth. Somebody's got some 'splainin to do.

[Nothing Without Hope]

71. Yes, those are the big sleeper questions: WHERE IS IT ALL and

HOW CAN IT BE ASSURED THAT ALL IS DESTROYED?

When you consider it went to something like 4000 labs all over the world that we KNOW OF, this is a troubling and complicated issue. I think it's one reason why the officials have been carrying on about how this virus isn't really all that dangerous because it's been passaged in tissue culture. (I hope that turns out to be true, but for now it's just a reasonable guess.) While some of these samples are still "out there," they don't want potential terrorists or other bad players to get the idea that it's something that might give them power to blackmail or kill.

edit:TC is tissue culture

[Radio_Lady]

115. Air America Radio reported that samples that went to Mexico --

and Lebanon -- were not received. Did anyone else hear that in the afternoon news?

[mmonk]

53. Maybe it was a test

[Nothing Without Hope]

55. Three more reasons why this was truly dangerous, despite the downplaying

by some "experts."

Three things I want to point out about the virus isolate that was "accidentally" shipped all over the world:

• This H2N2 influenza variant killed up to 5 MILLION people before it disappeared in the late 1950's. That virus isolate has not been in the human population since then. This means that there is little if any immunity to it in people born since the late 1950's.
  
  
• Air travel by private citizens was MUCH less common 50 years ago, when this variant was being passed around and killing its victims, than it is now. Given today's rapid global flights and huge numbers of closely-confined passengers, how many might have died?
  
  
• One other thing: some "experts" are saying that this H2N2 isolate isn't really so dangerous because it has been passed in tissue culture for a while and that generally dilutes the pathogenicity of influenza viruses. Well maybe and maybe not - it hasn't been tested yet (thank god) on the current isolate so that argument is at best a reasonable speculation. As such, I believe that it underestimates the potential danger that we seem to have avoided thanks to an amazing chain of events in Vancouver. In effect, it's "happy-talk" since it depends on a reasonable but unproven hypothesis.
  

One more thing, by way of general explanations: As pointed out by sparosnare in the excellent review of avian influenza viruses and pandemics (Reply # 49), it's the recombination, the mix-and-match of different flu strains (antigenic shift), compounded by the antigenic drift that make flu virus so deadly in its ability to quickly produce new strains with unpredictable variations in transmissibility and pathogenicity. And if you were a Sci-Fi/thriller evil genius type who wanted a cheap way of producing lots of potentially deadly new flu variants, you could do something very simple: put lots of pigs, ducks and people together in close proximity - it would be easiest with domesticated animals because that way the three species would contact each other most closely. That way the virus can jump species, incubate, and throw up new variants most efficiently, and the people can then pass it on. Guess what? This "experiment" is going on all the time on the farms of Asia. That is why so many of the variants that we fear originate in that part of the world. Long ago, those farms and their ducks and pigs were fairly isolated, but not any more. This is a global community we are living in, and there is a price for that.

[oblivious]

56. According to my local paper, it was intentional

Queen Mary lab worker unwittingly used killer-flu virus in test

Hong Kong had a close call with a flu virus that killed millions 40 years ago when a laboratory worker opened vials of the virus for use in a lab test days before orders were made on Tuesday to destroy the samples.

The revelation came yesterday as global fallout continued over the blunder that saw samples of the H2N2 flu virus distributed to 6,500 laboratories in 18 countries from October to February. The samples were in test kits by the College of American Pathologists.

"I must say I am not totally happy with the whole thing. My first reaction was I did not think they should have done it," Dr Seto said of reports that the company preparing the test kits knew the virus was H2N2, but did not deem it to be a danger. "They should really be sensitive to the international classification. It is not just an American thing." Hong Kong classifies H2N2 as biosecurity level 3, higher than the level 2 in the US.

http://www.scmp.com/topnews/ZZZ4IWUOY6E.html
costs US$40 to read this article.

[Nothing Without Hope]

80. That appears to be incorrect based on other reports.

The vials were mislableled as H3N2 strain instead of the H2N2 pandemic strain. Some lab people at Meridian Bioscience also said they thought it was an innocuous virus.

For example,

...The above description indicates that the 1957 H2N2 pandemic virus was mislabeled at some point between 1957 and 2004.  This created confusion about the origins of the virus shipped out since last fall as part of a lab proficiency test.  The recording error is supported by the paperwork associated with the shipments, which indicated the virus was H3N2.  Since H2N2 was virtually eliminated from circulation in humans in 1968, it should not be in a library of viruses from 2000....

(This excerpt is from the article cited in this post (reply #46) of this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3481999)

But there is still a great deal of confusion that needs to be worked through to find out the answers about what happened, how it happened, and if possible WHY it happened. And there is also the question of accounting for and destroying ALL the pandemic flu virus that has been distributed or is otherwise vulnerable or dangerous.

[Nothing Without Hope]

87. Here is an article that says it WAS deliberate - inlcuded here to show

that there is confusion about the facts. I find the ones citing the mislabeling of the H3N2 virus in the kits and the belief by Meridian workers that it was an innocuous virus more believable that this one:

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsflu0414,0,573546.story?coll=ny-leadhealthnews-headlines

A vow to block ’57 flu bug

After lethal virus was sent to labs in error, feds move quickly to get all samples destroyed

BY DELTHIA RICKS
STAFF WRITER

April 14, 2005

(snip)

Schwartz (Dr. Jared Schwartz, an officer with the College of American Pathologists) said a variety of laboratories received the strain. He identified them as hospital laboratories, commercial labs and those run by state health departments. The college estimated that 127 clinical laboratories in New York received the strain, including the State Health Department laboratory, North Shore-LIJ Health System in Manhasset, Stony Brook University Hospital and Quest Diagnostics in Syosset. The New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene also issued an alert about the strain, advising labs to destroy it. "There has been a tremendous push to increase the number of laboratories capable of identifying influenza," Schwartz said during a news briefing yesterday.

To that end, he said, the college asked Meridian to include an "A" strain of flu in the round of testing. Lab representatives at Meridian chose the '57 strain for two reasons: It is easy to grow and had been labeled biosafety level-2, which meant that laboratories did not require a high level of security to handle it.

Gerberding said the CDC has plans to upgrade the virus to a biosafety level-3 lab, which means that it must be handled only in facilities equipped with a hood, a device that controls the airflow around the specimen. HIV is handled in BSL-3 labs.

While some countries already have changed the status of the 1957 flu strain, Meridian nevertheless sent it abroad in test kits. Canadian labs should not have received samples because they already have designated the virus as one requiring a high level of security.

(snip)

[Ladyhawk]

57. Question: I was born in '67. Why would I have more immunity than...

...someone born in '70? What if I wasn't exposed to any flu strains during my first year of life? :shrug:

[ReadTomPaine]

66. Quick answer - your infant shots. (n/t)

[Ladyhawk]

58. These people have already had success distributing antrhax...

...through the mail. :tinfoilhat:

[deutsey]

94. Yeah, I also wonder if this has anything to do with all those scientists

with connections to infectius diseases who have been killed.

[Ladyhawk]

105. Who knows?

It's OK to ask questions, but we can't claim knowledge until there's proof. :( However, I am suspicious of anything that happens with this administration. :tinfoilhat:

[deutsey]

112. It just seems odd, don't it?

I try to keep conspiracy theories at a distance, but with the anthrax mailings, the scientists' deaths, and the deadly flu virus, I have to wonder.

[Swamp Rat]

78. recommended

:kick:

[Nothing Without Hope]

81. Day-old Wash Post report on status of pandemic flu sample destruction

There's a long way to go before all samples can be accounted for - and what if they're not? Though the WHO is aiming at a Friday deadline for getting reports of sample destruction from all over the world, it seems probable to me that such a huge task will take longer to complete - if in fact it can ever be completed with certainty.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=6&u=/washpost/20050414/ts_washpost/a50287_2005apr13

Flu Strain Samples Remain at Large

Thu Apr 14,12:48 AM ET
By Rob Stein and Shankar Vedantam, Washington Post Staff Writers

At least four countries and more than 1,500 U.S. laboratories reported they had destroyed all their samples of a dangerous flu virus that had been shipped around the world, but thousands of others remained unaccounted for yesterday as health authorities in 18 countries intensified efforts to prevent a deadly outbreak.

U.S. officials were investigating the cause of the mishap and racing to tighten restrictions on the handling of particularly dangerous flu strains while international health officials kept close watch for any sign of lab employees coming down with the flu.

(snip)

The World Health Organization said Canada, South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore had confirmed destruction of their samples, but it was unclear how quickly other nations would comply.

"Things are now in full swing. We are getting daily updates, and Friday is our target," said Klaus Stohr, the WHO's top flu specialist. "We hope to hear all the samples are destroyed."

(snip)

[Kool Kitty]

82. According to the man that is on

George Noury's "Coast to Coast" show that is on right now, the company that is the source for all the flu samples is called "Meridian Bioscience" and is in Virginia. The reporter's name is Jon Rappaport. I don't know how credible he is, but he has been on Noury's show for the past three nights talking about this.

[Nothing Without Hope]

84. The name of the company is right, but it's in Cincinnati OH.

Here's its contact info:
Worldwide Headquarters
Meridian Bioscience, Inc.
3471 River Hills Drive
Cincinnati, OH 45244
Driving Directions
General Tel: [phone]
Inside Sales: 888-763-6769
Customer Service: 800.543.1980
Technical Support: 800.343.3858

And its home page is here:
http://www.meridianbioscience.com

[Kool Kitty]

97. Sorry. I didn't look it up.

I was just repeating what he was saying.

[NVMojo]

83. Right wingers pushing for an early Armagedon???

[Nothing Without Hope]

85. I wish I knew. There are many possibilities

...ranging from "innocent" but unbelievably extreme carelessness at one end to a full-scale conspiracy plot of some kind at the other. And of course we know who to look to when suspecting a conspiracy plot. Might this have been part of some plot to trigger a disaster that justified declaration of martial law? There really isn't any evidence yet to do more than get very upset speculating.

I'd say it's just too soon to know what really happened, how it happened, and whether it was deliberate in some way. And of course there is also the issue of trying to account for and destroy all those disseminated virus samples worldwide before they fall into the wrong hands.

Early Armageddon? It's not impossible, with the people we're thinking about. If it's deliberate or not, a more immediate concern (besides accounting for the virus samples) is whether the Bush Administration will try to parley this into a solidification and broadening of Homeland Security/Patriot Act powers. We have to come up with a way to prevent this from happening again without further abridgment of our rights.

[Celebration]

90. the Virginia connection

Jon Rappaport reported that this sample was originally from a company called American Type Culture Collection in Virginia. So this this virus was probably sent with the wrong label to labs besides Meridian. He said that they (American Type Culture Collection) were the largest supplier of biowarfare items to Iraq in the 80s, including anthrax.

[Celebration]

91. American Type Culture and past Iraq connection

http://www.why-war.com/news/2002/10/01/recordss.html

Naturally, we originally supplied all the biowarfare items to Iraq. Thank you American Type Culture!!

[Celebration]

96. ATCC

Ok, here is confirmation that ATCC began this debacle--

"The thousands of deadly flu samples that labs were hastily destroying at the urging of global health officials originated at American Type Culture Collection, according to the college of pathologists.

ATCC is a nonprofit lab in Manassas, Va., that was created in 1925 by a group of scientists who wanted a central location for the nation's supply of germs for lab use. It ships 150,000 biological items annually, making revenues of $32 million, according to its latest publicly available tax return.

An ATCC spokeswoman declined comment for this story."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/living/health/11399289.htm

According to Rappaport, the wrong label was on the sample from ATCC.

[Mr_Spock]

92. Absolutely - what on God's green earth were these IDIOTS thinking??

unfuckingbelievable - absolute incompetence!

[Willy Lee]

93. One missing sample sent to LEBANON

Posted this in its own thread but not much response. WHO lists 2 samples that they have not been able to account for- one was sent to Mexico, the other to Lebanon.

:scared:

This is getting a little too freaky.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/4/15/latest/20050415185656&sec=Latest

edited to add link

[Avalux]

95. Mexico and Lebanon claim they never received the kits -

and we don't know that all of the kits will be destroyed as instructed - what if someone decides to 'keep' one? I'm very uneasy about trusting these labs to destroy the kits just because they say they've done so.

[Nothing Without Hope]

99. The Moonie Times on the missing Mexican sample

It's always interesting to see the Wash Times' take on an issue because it is often a propaganda mouthpiece for the Administration. So it is interesting to consider their tone and the choice to print the UPI story about the Mexican sample;

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050415-111530-8083r.htm

Mexico: Deadly flu lost in the mail?

Mexico City, Mexico, Apr. 15 (UPI) -- A potentially deadly strain of the flu virus sent accidentally to Mexico did not reach the lab as intended, Mexico's Televisa reported Friday.

The World Health Organization said the samples mistakenly sent to 18 countries by a U.S. testing firm did not reached their intended destinations in Mexico and Lebanon.

The samples of the Asian flu are the same as those that killed more than 1 million people in 1957, although it had disappeared by the late 1960's.

An outbreak of the Asian flu could prove disastrous, as most people born after 1968 have not been immunized for that particular strain.

(snip)

The article finishes with a brief remark about their being no reports about the samples making anyone sick, but you can almost hear the missing word: YET. This article was not written by a Wash Times reporter but is a UPI piece, but the wording seems perhaps scarier than it had to be.

[Willy Lee]

100. Saudi Arabia and Israel (among others) have not yet verified

that they destroyed their samples.

:scared:

[Nothing Without Hope]

101. And of course, we have to ask HOW IS THE DESTRUCTION VERIFIED???

As far as I know, it's just a polite process of sending emails that say "the sample has been destroyed." What choice is there? So just because a country SAYS their samples are destroyed doesn't mean that they were.

The fact is, this strain of flu is out there now. Let's hope that the "experts" who have been trying to reassure us that the preparation isn't very dangerous because it's been passaged in tissue culture are guessing - and it IS guessing - right.

[Nothing Without Hope]

102. WE NEED TO KNOW HOW WIDELY WAS THIS STRAIN DISTRIBUTED

BEFORE the current disaster

I've seen comments in some articles that suggest it may be fairly widely available because it grows well in tissue culture. Is this true? Was it already in widespread for use in viral research BEFORE this high-profile incident?

• If the answer is NO, then some of the "everything is OK" comments made are quite misleading. But it would also increase the importance of determining why this particular flu strain was the one put into the kits - the chances against it truly being an accident would be much higher.
  
  
• If the answer is YES, it would mean that this whole front-page incident of the finding and destruction of the deadly virus samples is something of a charade - which would itself raise further questions.

[Nothing Without Hope]

106. The answer is at least a qualified YES. Here's a Hong Kong lab using H2N2

in experiments published in a 2002 paper in a good journal.

I did a quick Google Scholar search on "H2N2 influenza" and turned up a range of research articles. (I would probably have turned up even more with PubMed.) Sure enough, I immediately found on the first page an article in which the virus that is causing such a furor is part of a panel used in experiments:

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/40/5/1675
Journal of Clinical Microbiology, May 2002, p. 1675-1680, Vol. 40, No. 5
Evaluation of the Directigen FluA+B Test for Rapid Diagnosis of Influenza Virus Type A and B Infections
K. H. Chan,1 N. Maldeis,2 W. Pope,2 A. Yup,2 A. Ozinskas,2 J. Gill,2 W. H. Seto,1 K. F. Shortridge,1 and J. S. M. Peiris1*
Department of Microbiology, The University of Hong Kong and Queen Mary Hospital, Pokfulam, Hong Kong, Special Administrative Region,1 BD Diagnostic Systems, Sparks, Maryland2

This paper is in a reputable journal, and the experiments were done in Hong Kong to evaluate a commercial test by the longstanding American diagnostics company BD Diagnostic Systems. They used a panel of known viruses as well as the patient samples, and the list of influenza viruses in Table 1 includes "A/Asia/57 - A (H2N2)." That's the one we're so worried about.

Here's what they say about the provenance of the virus strains they used:

Viruses and other microorganisms tested. The influenza type A viruses of human, avian, and porcine origin and human influenza type B viruses used for testing the reactivity profile of the Directigen FluA+B test in this study are listed in Table 1. They were obtained from the repository of viruses at the Department of Microbiology at the University of Hong Kong; David Swayne, Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory, Athens, Ga.; and the American Type Culture Collection, Rockville, Md. In addition to those listed in Table 1, 18 other contemporary human influenza viruses, 6 each of influenza virus A subtypes H1N1 and H3N2 and influenza virus type B isolated in Hong Kong between 1998 and 2000, were also tested.

I checked the list of available influenza viruses at the American Type Culture Collection web site (home page, http://www.atcc.org), and it did NOT include H2N2 (though it is possible it has been removed from this list at some point). They may well have already had it in the Univ of Hong Kong collection. In any case, this lab was working with this virus several years before all the current furore.

I'm betting a wider search would turn up many other labs that also had this strain. So how much of the current drama is misplaced? If this virus isolate was ALREADY widespread, what this furore is doing is alerting terrorists to its presence and terrifying people who read about it, it seems to me. This possibility needs to be looked into.

[Radio_Lady]

116. This must be the story I heard on the radio -- see my other post.

[LibertyorDeath]

104. Kick

:kick::kick::kick:

[ArkDem]

107. This is obviously another attempt by our government to kill

off the poor and minorities.

[Nothing Without Hope]

109. Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if this whole thing may be a CHARADE

See my posts in this thread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3485927
Title: "WE NEED TO KNOW HOW WIDELY WAS THIS STRAIN DISTRIBUTED"

and then here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3479258&mesg_id=3486313&page=
Title: "The answer is at least a qualified YES. Here's a Hong Kong lab using H2N2"

If the current furore IS a charade, a media frenzy over something that is not really all that frightening after all, then this may be deliberate. Fear and distraction have been very useful to this Administration. More research on this point needs to be done, but it looks like that H2N2 strain may be widely distributed in world research and diagnostic labs ALREADY. The article using it in the 2nd post linked to here covers experiments done in Hong Kong several years ago.

So I am now wanting to know:

• HOW widely was this strain distributed before the thousands of Meridian kits went out?
  
• HOW much did this increase the already-existing availability of this strain around the world?

The reporters and concerned legislators need to be talking to influenza specialists in academia and diagnostic medicine and getting answers to questions like these. Just how significant is the Meridian Biosciences kit distribution?

[paineinthearse]

110. Misinformation, disinformation, media manipulation.....

this is getting more Orwellian every day.

[Avalux]

111. Accountability -

I just PMed you NWH.

You're suggesting that H2N2 virus is widely distributed in research and diagnostic labs already, the question of accountability and correct identification needs to be addressed then. Even if this virus is out there being used in research labs and/or diagnostic labs, it would be clearly identified and those working with it would know what it is.
Not true in this case.

H2N2 ,may be in some research labs, perhaps in the back of the freezer - widely distributed, I don't think so - no reason for it. And the most important thing to remember - H2N2 is not circulating in the human population at present.

[Nothing Without Hope]

113. I'm not suggesting, I'm ASKING. There are samples samples out there, but

how widely available was this virus before this incredible and literally unbelievable incident released it all over the world? Even if it was widely distributed, there was not yet the notoriety due to the present media frenzy advertising its significance. Whether or not it was in some (how many?) labs around the world, people didn't think about it as much. Now many people are frightened, we have a media echo chamber, and this has also been a headsup to potential terrorists or others who might want to benefit from this fear.

20 Years ago I would have known who to call for expert opinions in academia and would have been on a colleague basis with them. But I've been out of that world too long to know the players now. Some basic questions still need to be asked.

And none of this explains why that H2N2 virus got into a commercial kit without being typed or analyzed. That does not make any sense and never has.

[pandemic_1918]

114. It's The Mislabel That's The Problem

The media and this board are missing the real problem. It's not the H2N2 in the kits (that problem has been identified and is being tracked and the kits are being destroyed). The real issue is when the mislabeling happened.

The kits are simply for a proficiency test. The H2N2 in the kits doesn't even have a label. It's just a one time test to see if the lab can tell the difference between influenza A and influenza B. No sub-typing required (which is why no one noticed even though some kits went out last year).

Meridian said the A/Japan H2N2 was A/Shanghai H3N2. Its all of the vials labeled A/Shanghai H3N2 that are NOT in the kit that's a problem, because those vials really contain A/Japan H2N2

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/04140504/H2N2_Murky_Label.html

[Nothing Without Hope]

118. I agree in part in that this is an important problem, but I don't see it

as the only one. Yes, that mislabel has not yet been constrained in time/place, so there may be any number of other mislabeled vials of pandemic H2N2 virus out there. This is obviously a MAJOR cause for concern.

I also believe that the kits Meridian sent around the world will NOT all be located and destroyed. Mexico and Lebanon, for example, have already reported that theirs were lost in the mail before receipt. And how is the destruction being certified? If it is only a message saying it was done, there will always be doubt that the entire sample was destroyed. With so many samples, there is bound to be some noncompliance and confusion. For samples that had been reconstituted ( they are shipped lyophilized), the problem of tracking down all traces may be more problematic as well.

The headline news about the flu virus distribution has made a lot of people aware of this potential danger. That will include any terrorists or other bad players who may see this situation as providing an opportunity. At times it seems almost like some kind of crazed advertizing campaign: "see this little bottle? It's filled with mega-killer virus and we can't find it all!"

Human H2N2 virus has not been in people since it disappeared in 1968, but it has not disappeared entirely. It is in some research and reference collections around the world, and I wonder how many of those there are. With a very quick search I found that a Hong Kong lab had published a paper in which the pandemic H2N2 strain had been used as an experimental sample several years ago, long before the Meridian kit distribution. Several articles have commented that the strain is useful because it can be grown so readily in tissue culture, and many research and diagnostic labs around the world study or assay flu virus. I am wondering how common this strain is in collections. How big an impact did this Meridian incident have on the worldwide availability of this virus?

But yes, the question of where and when the initial mislabeling occurred and where else the pandemic H2N2 strain is, hidden behind a false label, is a crucial one. Let's hope very hard that investigators will be able to track the mislabeled strain back and answer this question in a clear and reassuring way.

[Nothing Without Hope]

119. Wash Post reports MOST SAMPLES OF VIRUS HAVE BEEN DESTROYED...BUT

that's not the only issue. There's been encouraging progress in the campaign to find and destroy the Meridian kits, but that last paragrah in the Wash Post article sums up concerns that will be hard to clear away. How many samples of this virus are there around the world? How is it being stored and labeled? How accessible is it? What about the unknown source and distribution of the mislabeled H2N2 stock at Meridian? And how will we find out the answers to these questions?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57529-2005Apr15.html

Most Samples Of Flu Strain Are Destroyed

Action Eases Fears of Pandemic
By Rob Stein, Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 16, 2005; Page A03

(snip)

Bermuda, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Italy, Lebanon, South Korea, Mexico, Singapore and Taiwan confirmed that they had neutralized all their samples, along with a newly identified U.S. military lab in Britain, WHO said. Officials also determined that samples sent to labs in Lebanon, Chile and Mexico that never arrived had either been secured or already destroyed.

Israel, Japan, Saudi Arabia and the United States were the only countries still tracing samples, Stohr said.

The College of American Pathologists, which requested most of the kits and is coordinating their destruction, said written confirmation had been received for 77 percent of all samples, and telephone conversations with recipients of the remaining 23 percent indicated most of those samples had been destroyed as well. The organization set up a 24-hour hotline that will be open over the weekend in the hope of confirming destruction of the remainder as quickly as possible, a spokesman said.

(snip)

But officials remained concerned that there is no comprehensive inventory of exactly how many facilities had the virus and how it was being stored.

[Nothing Without Hope]

120. Kick - perhaps I should start a new thread with the last post tomorrow n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

121. One more kick - then tonight I'll post the latest WaPo in a new thread

because this one is now functionally invisible except as a resource to be linked to. It's sort of a mini-research project that is good background info from which to move forward.

[Nothing Without Hope]

122. THIS THREAD IS CONTINUED WITH UPDATES IN A NEW THREAD

Here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3499616
New thread title; Editorial & updates on the "accidental" pandemic flu virus distribution

Please come join the discussion there, using this thread as an archive of articles, commentary, and information for the ongoing story.