Bankruptcy bill passes... IT IS BEYOND TIME FOR REVOLUTION

[In Truth We Trust]

CLASS WARFARE NOW!

[rockymountaindem]

1. Whatever

[renaissanceguy]

7. You don't care?

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

[rockymountaindem]

11. No, I just don't subscribe to the philosophy

that some crazy civil war is going to make things better.

[mhr]

43. So Tell Us What Will Make Things Better - We Are All Waiting

To hear these lofty thoughts!

[Mr. Flibble]

58. I second your comment.

As there is (yet) no response, it shows how empty his previous words were.

[Patiod]

85. OK, I really hate that argument

No answer = empty words. I see that all the time on DU -- people assuming that if someone doesn't reply, they've somehow "won" the argument.

It's a fecking BULLETIN BOARD, people.

You leave messages, you go away, you come back when there is a lull in your life. Sometimes the boss calls you into a conference, the baby gets sick, the phone rings, or you realize you need to leave RIGHT NOW to get to the gym in time to get your workout in before it closes. You post your thoughts, and then you GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE and come back later to see what others have contributed.

/sorry for the rant, but the "no response - I win!" argument gets my blood boiling.

[Telly Savalas]

95. I can't answer that...

however if you can't get enough people interested in taking an active enough role in the electoral process to make a difference, I don't see how you'll get them on board for a full-tilt revolution.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Democrats_win]

2. I'm there.

[shadowknows69]

56. I'm giving it until 2006 or Iran

then all bets are off.

[cheezus]

3. um, they've been waging it on us forever now

sheesh, get with the program

[still_one]

4. many of the people who will be affected by this voted * in

Texas and Ohio have the most forclosures, along with the south in general

if people vote against their own interest who is to blame?

[MARALE]

77. My brother and Sister-in-law

the only repubs in the family, want to file for bankrupcy. I told them to hurry if they want to do it, but they are still hem-hawing around. They want to open a business some day and think the banrupcy will hurt them. I feel sorry for them, but not too bad because they still beleive in the WMDs and gloated when * was reselected. I hope they won't try and open a business because they aren't the best with money and I am afraid they will not make it.

[still_one]

130. they have six months after the bill is signed

[fertilizeonarbusto]

5. "Avanti, popolo/Avanti, popolo

Alla vittoria/
Alla vittoria"

[gordianot]

76. Salus populi suprema lex esto.

Problem is there is no longer "will of the people".

[sidwill]

6. What is wrong with having to pay what you owe?

I agree that the bankruptcy bill is simply a gift to Republican contributors but in principal it seems absolutely fair that people have to pay what they owe to creditors.

Am I somehow sick and twisted by thinking this?

[renaissanceguy]

8. Look at it this way

Say you get really sick, and your doctor bills are astronomical. There's no way in hell you could pay your bills, but you needed that doctor/hospital to stay alive. The only way for you to keep on going is to file for bankruptcy, since you can't pay that bill.

Bankruptcy was a crutch for those who simply did not have any other option. It is a humiliating process to go through, and your credit is ruined for 10 years. Some stores won't even accept your personal checks.

Now, you don't have that crutch. Everything can be taken away from you, and you could be put in jail, while STILL owing that money. And if you die, your kids owe it.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

[sidwill]

15. If I'm not mistaken

The bill says nothing about jail time, it simply makes it harder for people to skip out on unsecured debt by filing bankruptcy.

[Hugin]

22. Hmm... Let's see...

You work for... Chase? MBNA? Providian?

Tell me.

Hmmm?

[corker]

67. credit card companies

figure in to their interest rates(profits) bankruptcies, so this is a windfall for them.

[HeeBGBz]

69. No kidding. They just hit me.

I missed several monthly payments during the winter on my maxed out card. When I checked to see what I owed, it was double the amount of my credit limit.

They called me yesterday to set up a payment plan. If I stick with it, the extra late fees will be suspended. If I miss payment, they will add more on.


Agreed that it's my fault that I didn't pay on it for a while, but geez, they've got an artery pegged on this turnip.

[Hugin]

71. Great phrase!

Thanks HeeBGBz!

"geez, they've got an artery pegged on this turnip."

Mind if I use it in my signature line?

This "Bankruptcy Bill" is the most anti-family, anti-women,
anti-children, anti-worker, anti-senior, anti-middle class,
anti-everything (Except the special interest) legislation
I've seen passed in my lifetime.

I only know one person who's ever privately filed for
bankruptcy protection. She did it in order to divorce
an abusive husband. I did everything I could to help
her recover her financial status. To her credit she
has been extremely responsible with her meager finances.

She's right side up again... But, it was a painful and
difficult time in her life. After witnessing those events
I can't see how anyone can think filing is a shortcut or
loophole to be abused. (Although, I'm sure there are dumbos
out there who try. But, they're pretty stupid.)

It was a good litmus test for identifying out-of-touch
or on-the-take legislators. I've got a grudge now and like
a badger... I never let go.

Have a good day... And thanks again for the quote.

:)

[4_TN_TITANS]

92. "I only know one person

who's ever privately filed for
bankruptcy protection..."

So do I. She maxed out every card she could get her hands getting cash and buying crystal meth or the ingredients to make it. Finally her and her husband had to file.

I sort of agree with the previous poster who thought it was only fair to pay back what you borrow. However, if you can really prove a needy situation with no solution but debt, I say tough shit to the credit card companies.

[HeeBGBz]

97. Your welcome

Feel free to use the phrase.

[elehhhhna]

82. My advice:

Call them back. Cancel the deal. Tell them you're considering filing bankruptcy before ethe new law goes nto effect. Make them a low settlement offer. If they say no, ignore their calls and monthly statements for a few billing cycles. I promise you there's a point where they'll make a deal just to recoup the principle. GOOD LUCK !

[susu369]

48. I hope you are wrong with this

"And if you die, your kids owe it"

I thought once you kicked the bucket a death certificate would be sent to creditors and the account would be closed? No?

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. no, not accordingto the current bill

[susu369]

53. Oh dear

thank you for the information...but not glad to hear the news.

[raccoon]

75. And yet the power elite want to get rid of the estate tax

Just another day in the Empire. <sigh>

[Terre]

96. Do you have a link

to an article on that, or know where I can find the portion of the bill itself that states children would be responsible for repayment under Chap. 13 if their parents die?

[Generic Other]

109. Must mean any inheritable property the companies have first dibs

So in a sense children are penalized.

I am more concerned about the fact that identity theft is also now a legal debt the victim will not be able to escape. Now that seems totally unfair.

[tx_dem41]

127. I believe that has always been the case. It didn't originate with this..

..bill.

[The Gigmeister]

108. Oh bullshit!

No one's CHILDREN are liable for their actions.

How about sticking to the facts?

[In Truth We Trust]

9. No you are not sick and frankly I agree with your sentiment. My problem

with this bill is it is completely unjust in it's target and implementation. It leaves loopholes for the rich you could drive a truck through and does not take into account legitimate cases of hardship while it rewards the financial sector for their greed. The financial sector posted $18,000,000,000 in profit last year.

[Mr. Flibble]

61. Bingo. As usual, a two-faced system that fools those into supporting it.

Fooling those with false morals and no convictions to stand on.

[Mandate My Ass]

10. No, you're just uninformed

The bill lumps everyone into the deadbeat category and eliminates all protections to people whose debt is due to sudden illness and extended periods of unemployment.

And oh, the rich can get out of it much more easily than the working poor and middle class. None of the amendments which would have made this egregiously one-sided bill remotely equitable in how they treat debtors was voted down.

[mongo]

12. I've just started the bankruptcy process

Because we have over 10K in MEDICAL bills, and our business can't afford health insur for us.

The hospital bills me 3 times more than they would bill me for the same services if I had health insur.

But hey, I'm just trying to get out of having to pay my creditors, right?

But we are filing chapt 13 anyway because we would lose our modest house and our business otherwise. And the business is just getting to the point where maybe we could afford some insur.

[Fovea]

74. bills me 3 times more

Yeah, I am a stroke survivor, diabetic, with high blood pressure that is not very well controlled. I live on a fixed income and cannot afford what they would charge me for insurance.

I have to see a doc every other month, and the perscriptions are very costly.

I see a future where I die broke and disabled on a street corner somewhere.

Before I do, I promise myself that I will take a rich person with me.

[In Truth We Trust]

93. Exactly, we the lower classes are in a class war with an unfair playing

field. Make sure you take out a rich Republicanor dino when you go.
Hang tough.

[The Gigmeister]

110. You're filing over 10 K??

That is assanine.

10 K is NOT that much. There is no need to file. Just slowly pay it back.

[atreides1]

14. Nothing

Except that when an elderly couple loses everything because of a health care emergency, but are not allowed to write it off like Halliburton will be able to write off debt.

The bill would have been fair if some allowances were made for those who go into debt, not because of wild spending, but because of health care issues, or losing your job in this free trade world.

So while that nice elderly couple next door have to sell all of their assets to pay for emergency medical expenditures, and at the same time Qwest, because it's a corporation has loop holes and safety nets, can file for bankruptcy and get court protection.

And no you're not sick or twisted, you're just not completely informed on what this bill is about.

[The Gigmeister]

111. Yes you are able to "Write it off".

Any personal medical expenses that reach $4500.00 in any given year qualify to be "Written off" on your taxes.

[Hugin]

17. Talking point.

The fees and interest penalties on most credit card accounts
are way out of line.

If the banks are borrowing their money from the Fed at 1.4% why are
they charging 25%? Why can't I borrow from the Fed?

The "fiscal responsibility argument" is total B.S.

[Democrats_win]

23. That's the important thing, they charge huge rates to cover bankruptcy

but now they have this bill. So I expect that the rates will go down?

[Hugin]

26. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's a good one..

<slapping knee>

Did you hear the one about a snow ball in hell?

Has the same ending. ;)

[CrispyQ]

115. Our government touting "fiscal responsibility" to the masses

while they put generations of children not yet born into endless debt. What a fucking joke.

And you are so right about the interest rates. Someone on DU recently said they were charged 29% because they missed some payments & went over their limit. These guys are no better than Luigi the Leg Breaker.

[tx_dem41]

131. "If the banks are borrowing their money from the Fed at 1.4%

why are they charging 25%?"

Because they are charging that to people with credit problems. I don't know anyone with good credit that is paying anything close to that interest rate.

[thethinker]

19. There is much wrong with this bill.

The major problem is credit card companies are charging people 30% and up interest. That is juice. The mafia used to go to jail for charging these kinds of rates! They lure people in by offering low rates and then they increase them.

No one can pay off credit cards if the interest rate is running 30%. If they are paying their minimum amount each month it would take them years to pay them off. This should be illegal.

If congress was looking out for the people, they would be passing bills against what the credit card companies are doing. They aren't passing laws against exorbitant interest rates because they are indebted to the credit card companies and banks because of campaign contributions. The banks own them. The banks paid for those votes. This is no longer a democracy.

I do not owe a dime to a credit card company. Never have. But this bill makes me madder than anything next to the stolen election. It is pure evil. And anyone that voted for it is pure evil.

I am keeping a list of the members of the house and senate that voted for this one. I don't care if they are calling themselves a democrat or a republican, I will vote against them no matter what they run for. I would rather vote for a republican than a rat calling themselves a democrat and not acting like one. At least I wouldn't be disappointed later.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Ok it is worst than that

We built a little debt since my hubby is going to school. We needed to buy some things, we are not talking anything extravagant. I was paying well beyond the mimimum and making no dent. The tax refund came in, guess what that puppy is paid for... but it took the whole tax refund... and I was paying well above the mimium but due to this usurious interests....

It used to be that they calculated it woudl take 20 yaers to pay it off at mimimum payments, these days I am sure it is up to forty.

And the attitude of the companies tells all... they call those like me who pay theiir bills every month, dead beets, while the others are called revolvers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. What is wrong in asking companies to assume some risk

when they lend money?

They charge outrageous interest, and now it is at very low risk?

Do you invest in debt securities at all? Do you get the statement that says "You may lose some or all of your initial investment?" I do. If I buy low-rated debt, fully aware of the risks, isn't part of the responsibility on me?

And yet the credit card companies continue to extend massive amounts of credit to obvious high risk borrowers, and expect there to be no risk at all? Aren't they a bit irresponsible in their lending practices? Do they have no responsibility at all?

How does a person get $100,000 in credit card debt? By being an irresponsible borrower, to be sure. But what lender continued to pour money into the black hole? What lender would do that? You'd have to be crazy - or you'd have to set up safeguards (such as the bankrupcy "law"), and be a vicious, neo-slaver motherfucker. But they are simply "responding to the market," right?

A wonder that I don't have the same recourse if I pour ridiculous amounts into junk bonds! An absolute wonder, I say.

Get real.

[EC]

29. The original bankruptcy law, did protect your home and car

so you had a roof over your head and a means to get to work, although you had to sell everything else. It also allowed write-offs of a certain amount of credit cards and medical bills, not all, you were still responsible for the payoffs, but without additional interest charges. Now, interest still accrues and you can lose your home and car. But if your property is worth over $350,000, you can keep it, including a summer residence. So it is skewed to protect the interest of the very rich, and screw the rest of us. I don't believe they throw you in jail, but they will haul you into court, add fines and charges and garnish your wages and take everything you own, no matter if you got into debt because of illness, disability or frivolous spending sprees, doesn't matter.

[CrispyQ]

116. This blows me away!

"But if your property is worth over $350,000, you can keep it, including a summer residence." :wtf: This makes me want to :nuke:

It should be exactly the opposite -- if your property is less than 350 you keep it (even 350 seems high!), otherwise you have to sell it & perhaps you can keep 150 to buy another house. They are going to create so many homeless people it will be mind boggeling. What are all these rich fucks going to do when the masses are living on the street & they can't even walk from their Hummer to the restaurant without being accosted by masses of homeless people pandering for a couple of quarters?

I can't tell you how angry this makes me & that my sleezeball senator (Salazar), who I gave money to last year for his campaign & put his stupid yard sign in my yard, voted for it. I've written 3 letters to the jerk & haven't gotten even a standard reply.

[Jacobin]

39. Okay, where to begin

45 million americans, most employed have no health insurance.

You have a bad medical problem or even a relatively minor one and you owe tens of thousands of dollars.

You and your wife and kids are doing okay, making ends meet. Your employer lays you off after outsourcing and it takes you two years to find another job. You fall behind in your bills and creditors sue to seize your assets.

You borrow $500,000 to start a small business. Things are going well and you are making money and paying your bills. A business reversal happens (pick one, there are dozens) and you no longer have customers or the widget is no longer needed. The business closes. You owe $500,000 and can't pay it back with your new $25,000 a year job.

The list goes on and on and on.

Bankruptcy is provided for in the constitution because in England there were debtor's prisons for people who couldn't pay.

This safety net is needed and the whackos in congress have just punched a big hole in it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

65. To discourage entrepreneurs?

Sounds like they're putting a cap on competition...that might compete against them... Here comes The Company Store.

[DinahMoeHum]

83. Yep, that's an unintended consequence of this bill. Or not.

It will discourage entrepreneurship and setting up small businesses, at a time when this is badly needed for our economy.

:evilfrown:

[Fire Walk With Me]

117. Widens up the gap between the rich and poor

Reinforces a society of those who need, who must then work for others, and those who profit from those who need. Repubs love cheap labor. How to create more?

[Lars39]

44. About half of all bankruptcies are due to medical bills.

Are you going to be able to pay back about $200,000?

[lateo]

47. Nothing...but...

It is funny that this bill has "asset protection" for super-wealthy people but NOT for us.

[Mr. Flibble]

60. I work my ass off. If I lose my good health or job, what do I do then, eh?

And how come this bill doesn't affect the rich, the same way the 1995 Klinton welfare "reform" didn't stop gross corporate subsidies to the wealthiest of corporations? Even McDonalds got half a billion for peddling McNuggets in Turkey. How the fuck is that more important than people suffering in our streets than trying to make the citizens in a foreign country fat with clogged arteries, huh?

You're hot on the ideas. So please defend them. Sorry to sound confrontational, but I am tired of people waving their spurious morals around without an iota of justification.

May you get into the same boat as the rest of us then. What else can I say? Suffer the ill of thy neighbor. It'd make better neighbors out of ALL of us.

[verdalaven]

91. My brother's wife died of a hereditary heart defect

last year. She was 29. In the year before her death she had a valve replacement that was supposed to extend her life to a normal expectancy. It didn't work.

They didn't have insurance, made about $1000 a month (my brother is a trucker and they traveled together). Upon her death my brother is left with $100,000 debt on top of a broken life. At the moment he is trying to pay off the debt, but at a couple hundred of dollars a month it is going to take years and years. He has nothing, lives with my parents. He is 34 years old.

In this case I don't see declaring bankruptcy as avoiding personal responsibility. I see it as an equalizer for the working poor, those who make too much(or are too proud) to get gov-assistance, do not have insurance and is hit with sudden reversals of fortune, such as an illness they didn't count on. Otherwise, we are telling people in his income bracket that they might as well forgo possibly lifesaving health care for fear of leaving surviving family members in debt for a lifetime of lifetimes.

I hate to add this, but my brother supported **ack** bush.

[The Gigmeister]

112. Your brother is what bankruptcy is FOR!!

He SHOULD file. It was created for situations like his.

May God bless your brother.

[Selatius]

13. They declared class warfare on you since before you were born

Only now do you realize that they are inflicting economic Pearl Harbors on ordinary Americans trying to put food on the table and pay the bills?

[In Truth We Trust]

34. I know that oh too well my friend. Guess what- I'm fighting back and I

suggest you consider you doing so to. Pickets, boycotts, civil disobedience, WHATEVER it takes to restore justice and democracy, if not for yourself then for the millions of children who will suffer from this greed and corrution.

Paper ballots NOW!
Hand counts NOW!

[Melynn]

64. Another thing that you can do is pay off your credit cards

If you can. I realize not everyone can do that. Hit the banks in their pocket book. They understand that.

[Hugin]

72. Also...

If you can't pay off all your card debt make sure all of
your "unsecured" debt is covered by "secured" debt.

In other words... Keep your balance at or below the real
value of your assets.

I know that doesn't hurt the banks... But, at least you
won't be owing them ad infinitum should you find it
necessary to default in the future.

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. What happens if you don't pay/comply ? Do they put you in

federal prison? I don't really understand what they gain by this, if you don't have any money it doesn't matter how many god damn laws they write, you still don't have any money.

[Hugin]

18. Yeah... What happened to our national pride in...

... eliminating debtor's prisons.

Oh, yeah... Forgot the fascists won.

Nevermind.

[catmandu57]

20. No, they're going to shave your head and send you to war

Or something like that. I suppose they could take whatever assets you may have, house, car, etc..
Then you'll just be another homeless soul living and dying in the street.

[The_Casual_Observer]

21. A full blown underground economy may emerge from shitty

laws like this. My guess is that it's already happened somewhat.

[Democrats_win]

27. Republicans already have underground economy to avoid taxes

They barter, cheat, and scam.

[Hugin]

30. They have them thair undisclosed benefactors to bail...

... them out of the crap they've wandered into, also.

Then there's always the draft dodging...

But, we won't talk about that. (Especially in the CRM)

Might get Ratherized.

[Democrats_win]

24. They'll get judgements from activist judges---the circle is complete

But from space it looks like a swastika.

[Q3JR4]

28. It seems as if

they'd just garnish whatever meager wages from any future job until the bill is paid or you die (in which case you're kids get to deal with it).

[Zorra]

36. I think now banks can take basically away everything you own, garnish

most or all of your wages, and make you pay for credit counseling if you file for bankruptcy.

What will happen is that hundreds of thousands if not millions or American families will be forced into homelessness, they will no longer be able to afford to go to even go to work.

[Hugin]

37. It won't get that far...

Believe me. ;)

[natrat]

99. friggin grapes of wrath

[Zorra]

124. Exactly. Perfect analogy.

Republicans are taking us back to the glory days of Herbert Hoover, conservative hero and father of the Great Depression.

[realFedUp]

31. my Congressman fortunately voted no on it.

they practically don't want to tell
you how he voted in case you disagree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. here is the roll call

Mods this is a public record and protected for free distribution under title XVII

Aderholt
Akin
Alexander
Andrews
Baca
Bachus
Baird
Baker
Barrett (SC)
Bartlett (MD)
Barton (TX)
Bass
Bean
Beauprez
Berry
Biggert
Bilirakis
Bishop (GA)
Bishop (UT)
Blackburn
Blunt
Boehlert
Boehner
Bonilla
Bonner
Bono
Boozman
Boren
Boswell
Boucher
Boustany
Boyd
Bradley (NH)
Brady (TX)
Brown (SC)
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Burgess
Burton (IN)
Buyer
Calvert
Camp
Cannon
Cantor
Capito
Cardoza
Carter
Case
Castle
Chabot
Chandler
Chocola
Cleaver
Coble
Cole (OK)
Conaway
Cooper
Costa
Cox
Cramer
Crenshaw
Crowley
Cubin
Cuellar
Culberson
Cunningham
Davis (AL)
Davis (FL)
Davis (KY)
Davis (TN)
Davis, Jo Ann
Davis, Tom
Deal (GA)
DeLay
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Doolittle
Drake
Dreier
Duncan
Edwards
Ehlers
Emerson
English (PA)
Etheridge
Everett
Feeney
Ferguson
Fitzpatrick (PA)
Flake
Foley
Forbes
Ford
Fortenberry
Fossella
Foxx
Franks (AZ)
Frelinghuysen
Gallegly
Garrett (NJ)
Gerlach
Gibbons
Gilchrest
Gingrey
Gohmert
Gonzalez
Goode
Goodlatte
Gordon
Granger
Graves
Green (WI)
Green, Al
Gutknecht
Hall
Harman
Harris
Hart
Hastert
Hastings (WA)
Hayes
Hayworth
Hefley
Hensarling
Herger
Herseth
Higgins
Hinojosa
Hobson
Hoekstra
Holden
Hooley
Hostettler
Hoyer
Hulshof
Hunter
Hyde
Inglis (SC)
Israel
Issa
Istook
Jefferson
Jenkins
Jindal
Johnson (CT)
Johnson (IL)
Johnson, Sam
Jones (NC)
Keller
Kelly
Kennedy (MN)
Kind
King (IA)
King (NY)
Kingston
Kirk
Kline
Knollenberg
Kolbe
Kuhl (NY)
Larsen (WA)
Latham
LaTourette
Leach
Lewis (CA)
Lewis (KY)
Linder
LoBiondo
Lucas
Lungren, Daniel E.
Mack
Manzullo
Marchant
Matheson
McCarthy
McCaul (TX)
McCotter
McCrery
McHenry
McHugh
McIntyre
McKeon
McMorris
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Melancon
Menendez
Mica
Michaud
Miller (FL)
Miller (MI)
Miller, Gary
Mollohan
Moore (KS)
Moran (KS)
Moran (VA)
Murphy
Murtha
Musgrave
Myrick
Neugebauer
Ney
Northup
Norwood
Nunes
Nussle
Ortiz
Osborne
Otter
Oxley
Pastor
Paul
Pearce
Pence
Peterson (MN)
Peterson (PA)
Petri
Pickering
Pitts
Platts
Poe
Pombo
Pomeroy
Porter
Portman
Price (GA)
Price (NC)
Pryce (OH)
Putnam
Radanovich
Rahall
Ramstad
Regula
Rehberg
Reichert
Renzi
Reyes
Reynolds
Rogers (AL)
Rogers (KY)
Rogers (MI)
Rohrabacher
Ros-Lehtinen
Ross
Rothman
Royce
Ruppersberger
Ryan (WI)
Ryun (KS)
Salazar
Saxton
Schwartz (PA)
Schwarz (MI)
Scott (GA)
Sensenbrenner
Sessions
Shadegg
Shaw
Shays
Sherwood
Shimkus
Shuster
Simmons
Simpson
Skelton
Smith (NJ)
Smith (TX)
Sodrel
Souder
Spratt
Stearns
Strickland
Sullivan
Sweeney
Tancredo
Tanner
Tauscher
Taylor (MS)
Taylor (NC)
Terry
Thomas
Thompson (CA)
Thornberry
Tiahrt
Tiberi
Turner
Upton
Walden (OR)
Walsh
Wamp
Weldon (PA)
Weller
Westmoreland
Whitfield
Wicker
Wilson (NM)
Wilson (SC)
Wolf
Wu
Wynn
Young (AK)
Young (FL)



---- NAYS 126 ---

Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Baldwin
Barrow
Becerra
Berman
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Brady (PA)
Brown (OH)
Brown, Corrine
Butterfield
Capps
Capuano
Cardin
Carnahan
Carson
Clay
Clyburn
Conyers
Costello
Cummings
Davis (CA)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
DeGette
Delahunt
DeLauro
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Doyle
Emanuel
Engel
Eshoo
Evans
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank (MA)
Green, Gene
Grijalva
Hastings (FL)
Hinchey
Holt
Honda
Inslee
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Jones (OH)
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kucinich
Langevin
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lynch
Maloney
Markey
Marshall
Matsui
McCollum (MN)
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
McNulty
Meehan
Millender-McDonald
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moore (WI)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pascrell
Payne
Pelosi
Rangel
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Sabo
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sanders
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Sherman
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Snyder
Stark
Stupak
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (CO)
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velázquez
Visclosky
Wasserman Schultz
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Wexler
Woolsey

[proud patriot]

32. link

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll108.xml

[Zorra]

33. Mass boycotts and a nationwide general strike are in order.

DU Economic Activism Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

[In Truth We Trust]

35. April 15th National Sick-out: CLASS WARFARE CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE ACTION!

Take tomorrow off- fuck the greedy bastards

[murdoch]

40. momentum and critical mass

I think these things need organization, momentum and to reach a critical mass.

I will give you an example - I went on an anti-war march on March 19th, and one to two dozen people laid down on the street in civil disobedience and were arrested. I myself believe things like the war and being screwed economically will never come out of Washington DC, it has to be done on the streets, in a rank-and-file grassroots level.

Anyhow, I didn't want to get arrested so I stood near the people getting arrested (who were sitting on the street), but since I was there I still felt I was helping, somewhat. If there were a multiple of the number of people there I might have risked getting arrested though. Even then I have to calculate the odds of being arrested - the NYPD had no problem arresting thousands of people during the RNC protest. The only way to keep the war and so forth and the war machine humming and running along is to keep it running along, which is why thousands were arrested then.

Anyhow, I think the key is to just have a mass movement which keeps increasing in size. There's safety in numbers. And if things change in this country, that helps the whole world. And only the working people will do that.

[Doctor_J]

38. I think we all knew that

Sadly, this nation will not start its climb back to greatness until bombs fall on our soil. Looks like China, Russia, and India are going to form the next axis of world power, and I fear there is going to be hell to pay for setting * loose on the world. The upside is it's going to happen soon, so we can get back to the rebuilding right after that.

[Kevin Spidel]

41. Who Voted How....

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll108.xml

[Kevin Spidel]

42. Bankruptcy Bill Battle is Just the Beginning...

Bankruptcy Bill Opponents Thank Congress Members Who Voted No, Promise to Hold Accountable Those Who Voted Yea, and Prepare for Upcoming Battles

Following Senate passage of the bankruptcy bill on March 10, Democrats.com and Progressive Democrats of America created a coalition at www.DebtSlavery.org to work against passage in the House. On April 14, 2005, that effort fell short by a vote of 302-126. But compared to the 90 Democrats who voted for a nearly identical bill in 2003, only 73 Democrats voted Yes this time. Of the 22 Democrats who campaigned for the bill and whom DebtSlavery.org targeted to change their votes, three reversed their positions and voted No - John Larson (D-CT), Jay Inslee (D-WA) and Adam Smith (D-WA) - while a fourth, Shelley Berkley (D-NV), did not vote.

Read a statement on the vote and future plans by the leaders of Democrats.com and PDA:
http://elandslide.org/elandslide/issues2.cfm?id=1348&type=news

On Thursday evening, April 14, 2005, at 7:45 p.m. ET, catch David Swanson of DebtSlavery.org on KPFK Pacifica Radio: http://www.kpfk.org/. On Friday morning, April 15, 2005, catch Swanson talking about the bankruptcy bill at around 8 a.m. ET on Democracy Now: http://www.democracynow.org/ and then at about 10:20 a.m. ET on KRTS St. Louis: http://www.ktrs.com/ , as well as on the many stations that air CounterSpin: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=5#, all three of which programs can be heard on the internet. In the evening of Friday from 7:15 to 8:15 p.m., catch Swanson on the Bev Smith Show at http://www.aurn.com which can be heard on its New York affiliate over the internet at http://www.wwrl1600.com

At a press conference in Washington, D.C., on April 13, 2005, Congressman and Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee John Conyers and Congresswoman and Member of the House Financial Services Committee and Co-Chair of the Progressive Caucus Barbara Lee joined representatives of labor, women, consumers, children, seniors, veterans, activists, and academics, united in opposition to one of the most destructive bills we've all seen in years: S. 256, the bankruptcy bill.

See the press release.

Here's an MSNBC story.

Here's a CNN story quoting Travis Plunkett of the Consumer Federation of America, who MC'd the press conference.

Here's a Salon.com article

Here's a Philadelphia Inquirer Article

Here's an NPR Story

Here's a press release from the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

Here's a statement by David Swanson of DebtSlavery.org.

Here's a statement by Joan Entmacher of the National Women's Law Center.

Here's a release from MoveOn.org.

Here's a statement from Olga Vives, Vice President of the National Organization for Women.

Here's a statement from 23 national labor unions and the AFL-CIO.

Here's a release from the Drum Major Institute.

Here's a statement from Demos President Miles Rapoport.

Here's a statement from the United Auto Workers.

Here are statements from the National Consumer Law Center.

Here is a letter from US PIRG.

Here's a release from Public Campaign Action Fund.



Click "Write Your Rep" to Email and phone your congress member to thank them for voting No or upbraid them for voting Yes. Here's how they voted. Click "Links" for information on the bill.

Then please take the following actions:

Deluge every talk show, including conservative ones -- lots of conservatives declare bankruptcy too!
Deluge every tv and radio station’s news room with encouragement to cover both how truly awful this bill is and the surging public campaign to hold accountable those who voted for it.


The "Debt Slavery" Bankruptcy Bill was written by credit card companies, which made $30 billion in profits in 2004 - but are blinded by greed.

The bill will change current law to prevent you from declaring bankruptcy under Chapter 7, which pays off your debts by liquidating your assets, giving you a fresh start financially. Instead, it will force you into Chapter 13 with a rigid 5-year repayment plan. You will no longer be able to protect your car and home, and you will have to pay greater legal fees.

Simply put, you will become a debt slave to the credit card companies.

When the Senate passed this bill, it rejected a dozen crucial changes to make the bill humane- such as exemptions for serious medical problems, exemptions for those in the military, an interest rate limit of 30%, protecting the homes of the elderly, and comparably strict treatment of those who are rich.

Help us create a grassroots firestorm around the outrageous passage of this bill by putting our Blogad (on the right) on your Web site with a link to http://debtslavery.org, and by making a contribution if you can.

[Hugin]

45. Kick for Kevin... (Required reading) n/t

[Hugin]

46. On second thought...

You should start a thread with this post.

Really.

;)

[Mojorabbit]

55. The link for the statement

gets me to an error message....

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. They shall sow winds, and they shall reap

a windstorm....

This is the seed of their own destruction yet they don't realize it. This is part of the problem... what we are seeing now is just the begiing.... of something they will not be able to control

Watch for the misery index, as more and more Murcians realize that they have nothing more to loose....

[Jack Rabbit]

54. Man the barricades!!

Liberty Leading the People (1830) by Eugene Delacroix from the website of the University of Southern California

[Th1onein]

57. WHEN DOES THE LAW GO INTO EFFECT?

Inquiring minds want to know....

[Zorra]

59. Pretty sure it goes into effect 6 months from enactment. n/t

[Th1onein]

63. ARE YOU SURE?

I'm about to contact an attorney and start the process.

[PassingFair]

70. To my knowledge...

it's 180 days from the time the chimperor signs it...

[In Truth We Trust]

66. This sounds crazy but let's put enormous pressure on the chimp to veto

this bill. I realize this is ridiculous however if there is ENORMOUS public pressure then we can hope for a miracle.If as expected he doesn't veto at least we bring a spotlight on the lack of popular representation from Bush**, the repubklicans and the DINO sellouts.

[Mr. Flibble]

62. I recommended the post.

The threads that spawned from it are relevant; even those ignorantly supporting the bill. Especially those who do.

[ObaMania]

68. Believe me...

.. for the next six months or so until it is enacted, creditors are going to get fucked big time.

People will be running to get their bankruptcy in while they still can.

'Course our corrupt gov't will put in some retroactive provisions to nab these people.

Honestly, I hope those who were ever thinking of bankruptcy do it, and tell the creditors to blow their restructured payment plan out their ass. It's partially the creditor's fault that folks can't pay their bills in the first place!

JMO FWIW

[cyberpj]

73. If this travesty could just be explained to ALL THE PEOPLE and then used

as a campaign to completely overhaul CONGRESS --- now THAT would be a People's Revolution.

Slogans?

"They protected big business but sold you out: auto, home and future..... it's time for an ALL NEW CONGRESS!"

[In Truth We Trust]

78. Of course then we'd be at the mercy of the cmsm as to whether they would

air such an ad over the PUBLIC airwaves. I agree that this would be a highly effective meme to the masses and would effect positive change. The powers that be however wouldn't allow such popular dissent to spread before we got another distraction ala terra tera terra or schiavo schiavo schiavo.

I'm afraid the only solution is massive strikes and shutdowns ala Kiev etc.

[Zynx]

79. Ummm, how about you don't run up credit card debt?

[cyberpj]

80. Ummmm, how about if YOU get laid off for over a year?

And unemployment benefits run out at 6mos.

And congress won't extend them.

And you have an unexpected major illness while without insurance?


Would you just go ahead and die so as to not run up credit card debt?

[Zynx]

86. Credit cards are not free money or unemployment comp

I know people do this, but that doesn't mean they don't have to pay it back.

When you are already having financial troubles, taking on extremely high interest debt does not make it better. :eyes:

[cyberpj]

88. --- and what would you propose if/when they simply can not? eom.

[Zynx]

122. If you have no income you can still file Chapter 7

So I don't see what you are talking about. You have to be over the median income for your state to be forced into Chapter 13 under the law.

[Hugin]

89. I'm sure they fully intend to pay it back...

However, what they *aren't* expecting is all of the
"churning" which is done by the CC companies to "punish"
the card holders.

The imaginary fees they pull out of their assess plus
the unregulated usury associated with punitive interest
rates.

They put Al Capone away for doing this stuff.

[cyberpj]

101. Exactly. Just callit what it is. Loan sharking and extortion. eom.

[natrat]

100. exactly , if you cant give them money what good are you?

[Divameow77]

84. It's not only about credit card debt

doesn't it include medical bills as well?

[cyberpj]

102. Well, medical bills you put on credit cards and then ANY bills you have

on top of those IF you try to claim after the bill is in effect.

[Occulus]

87. I've been "paying off" my CC for OVER TEN years.

A decade, paying every. God. Damned. Month. The only time of my life I wasn't in debt was before I graduated high school. Since that time, I've paid off the remainder of my student loan, never ever been threatened with eviction due to nonpayment, and paid off two vehicles. The CC debt doesn't really drop.

I'm making some headway after making a big old stink and taking advantage of the CC co's woefully inept understanding of both law and common sense to get them to put me on their 'hardship program'- whatever that is; there was never any written documentation that I'm in any such special repayment program. I suspect I'm getting scammed here, but wtf am I supposed to do?

This is the only CC I've ever had, and yes, I did let it get out of hand for a time, if you count groceries and household items "getting out of hand". I don't really have anything material to show for it; all the material posessions I have were paid for in cash.

The problem is, now that I'm willing to pay it off and trying to do so as quickly as possible, I('m getting screwed with all over again. I cannot negotiate a lower rate than 6.5% with them, and although the card has been inactive for over a year (more like two), I'm still getting hit with whatever charges they care to add onto the bill.

I have vowed that once I'm done with this CC, I'm done with them all for good. I will get a debit card, simply because that's cash in the bank, but I will never again keep a charge card once I'm done with this one.

[Divameow77]

81. What will happen to people that can't pay?

Will they garnish wages? I can't get child support from my sons father (for 7 years) but a credit card company could garnish my wages to get paid? F-that!

[Lone Pawn]

90. OH NO ATTACK OF THE CAPITAL LETTERS!

BUT WHAT IF THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES CAN AFFORD EVEN BIGGER LETTERS THAN YOU CAN?

HOW WILL YOU EVER WIN?

[In Truth We Trust]

94. LOL- That is funny. The credit card industry will provide access to

large letters for a nominal fee of 0% for six months and then fixed at 9% after that, unless of course you miss a payment due to downsizing or medical problems and you decided to pay you mortgage first. But they still don't care, in fact hey'll let you forgo payment on those big letters for a period of time which is so kind however it will come at a price of course. There will be late fees over the limit fees and naturally your interest rate on those big letter purchases will jump to 25-30%

[earth mom]

98. This is so damned wrong!

The sad part is some people won't know they've been shafted until they go to file. All I can think of is KARMA for all those in congress who voted for it. Payback is a bitch after all. :grr:

[natrat]

104. what's up with scumbag hillary

lobbied her husband then president clinton against it but
voted for this---and a big crew of other dems---whole thing is so weird

[oc2002]

103. How Many DEMOCRATS Voted for this too?

We need to know.

[The Gigmeister]

105. Hit the streets, Sizzlechest.

Of course you'll be met by avearage citizens looking at you as if you're a Loon. Then, if you ***Really*** go forward with this "Revolution" idea, you'll be met by average citizens with weapons. Then you'll die.

But hey...Go for it.




Or maybe work to elect public official who won't pass laws that you don't agree with??

[The Gigmeister]

107. I'll make a bet with any of the "Revolutionaries" right now...

...And I'll give you 10-1 odds.

Not a SINGLE one of you will back up your words on this thread...EVER!

Any takers??




Now...How about we get back to realistic topics? How about we get back to working with Chairman Dean towards winning in 2008. You know? He had a GREAT idea the other day. He's setting-up PERMANENT Democratic offices, and action committees in every state! Instead of just setting them up just before Presidental elections as we've done in the past.

Oh FUCK IT! Let's just rant about killing someone's Republican grandmaw some more...

[Generic Other]

113. If someone steals your identity and runs up your credit

you, the victim will have to pay. The can legally garnish your wages, your assets, etc. You have no recourse but to pay a bill you didn't even incur under the new law.

Who is going to go to work to pay bills they aren't responsible for? I'd quit my job and disappear into an underground economy before I'd agree to that!

Make it unfair enough and painful enough and I will do just about anything to retaliate.

[The Gigmeister]

114. Are you taking my bet?

No, of course not.

[Generic Other]

118. You want to bet your security against my anti-social tendencies?

That's a dumb bet.

I have been a revolutionary all my life.

A vandal, a petty saboteur, a scofflaw, a menace to society on so many levels. Every single day.

If I am marginalized to a point where I no longer have anything to lose, I will turn on those responsible. It is no harder to be a revolutionary than it is to be a common criminal. In fact, my victims probably won't be able to tell the difference.

[ArkDem]

121. WOW, your mother must be proud.

[Generic Other]

123. I was speaking rhetorically

As for being my mother's pride, she lives with me and I support her. She's been forced to give up her pride since Bush took office.

[The Gigmeister]

125. Oh that's cute.

"A vandal"??

LOL!


And really...

It's been my experience that anyone who has to brag about it, has never done it, and will never do it.

If any of this fantasy ever came true, you'd be the first to hide behind the couch.

[In Truth We Trust]

132. I find your comments to be personal attacks upon people you know

nothing about. What's up with that? Shall I return the favor and disparage you without even knowing you? Perhaps because we disagree I should resort to personal attacks too. Maybe because you seem to be a modern day Tory I should refer to you as such.

That would be so lame though. We are all on the same side it seems to me so please don't disrupt the thread into personal attacks and keep it on subject.

Thanks for your support of Governor Dean and his efforts. Remember this as well:

Paper ballots NOW!
Hand counts NOW!

[natrat]

119. you got to pay until the court deems you not responsible

i guess the answer in part is to shred all your important papers before discarding, get frequent credit reports etc etc

the door does seem like its opening to more fraud though

[In Truth We Trust]

126. Yeah agent Mike I am going to wager in a public forum stating my

intention to break the law and then I'm going try and collect on my bet by proving my act of defiance to an unknown poster on DU. Smart bet bud. Sizzlechest my ass. Thats a foolish challenge on your part in so many ways. FYI I am involved in The good Governors efforts on the ground and I have done so much more than the average citizen to demand we restore democracy in this country.

There is a time when the entrenched regime has monopolized any and all avenues of recourse the public has. If you are a student of history then you will realize that revolution is the last resort. Our country was born from revolution as were so many.

We don't even have the recourse of the ballot box anymore. So please do not tell me how I should react to totalitarianism and class warfare. I want justice and I want a democratic future for my children and their children too.

[The Gigmeister]

129. Hyperbole, anyone??

[In Truth We Trust]

133. Reality Jizz meister?

[solinvictus]

120. Here's the tragedy of it all..

Bankruptcy is no longer a viable option to protect assets. More people are losing health insurance and jobs every day. Once this sets in with large numbers of desperate people, I fear there will be many who are pushed over the edge. Watch for crime rates to skyrocket, especially these multiple shootings in public and private buildings. The country's turning into a pressure cooker and our "public servants" are making it worse.

[barb162]

128. You know what? I knew this thing would pass, no question. But

what really gets me is the 73 Democrats that voted for it. We all knew the GOP would vote as they did. But We vote for these Democrats not to do stuff that will hurt the voters, the average citizens of this country who are hurting economically or who will be soon. Sometimes I wonder why I bother voting. Dem/GOP: what is the FUCKING diff? I don't know how to solve the problem of voting Democrat and then the Democrats get bought off in Congress and vote with the GOP.

If 5 or so Democrats voted with the GOP it wouldn't have bothered me. But over 70 Democrats voted for this bill.

[Moderator]

134. Locking

The bankruptcy bill mentioned in the original post is clearly a concern for all of us here, but DU does not support encouraging class warfare or revolution, as is implied.

Thanks for your consideration.
DU Mod