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OMG! Please help! Repub in my office just told me......

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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:05 PM
Original message
OMG! Please help! Repub in my office just told me......
She and her husband are planning on seeing a movie this week that parallels Nazi Germany and the US right now (she can't remember the name)! This is incredible! This is the woman who has been a staunch defender of * for as long as I've known her, and her husband is even more Repug. If they are finally starting to wonder what the Hell is going on in this country, then we really do have a shot at turning this all around BEFORE WWIII.

I need quick links that will not scare her too much, maybe the 14 rules of Facism. I'm at work, so I shouldn't even be posting! Shhhh! don't tell the boss!

Please help, I know I can count on you guys!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. here
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Wow Great Site
thanks for posting
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powergirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. AWESOME WEB REFERENCE - THANK YOU!
I have already sent it to my friends. It really does hurt my stomach to read this. Can't these sheep see what is happening to this country???:banghead:
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. That's a keeper site!
Something's happening here..no it's not hyperbole..it's awareness instead of denial.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Too late.
WWIII is already underway.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Looks like it
I'm surprised really. How can we see this film?
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would wait until after they see it
You can gauge your response to her/their response to the movie. If she's totally disgusted by it, your work could backfire.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. The tide is turning folks.
Every day more and more people are finding out the truth.

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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I wish I shared your optimism
I've been on DU since late 2003 and just about every day, people start "the tide is turning" threads.

I remember starting one myself last year about how a conservative Republican co-worker started telling everybody he talked to to "Vote for Kerry" because he hated Bush so much. And, this guy is no shrinking violet, either. This was the summer of 2004.

However, when it came down to it, he voted Bush because Kerry had been so effectively demonized that Bush was the lesser of two evils. Heck, I know folks who felt the same in 2000 and held their noses & voted Bush over Gore & Kerry.

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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I know, but one once of truth is worth a ton of manure
It takes time but we can't up. Send your co-worker a link to www.downingstreetmemo.com

Prooving Bush lied is a great first step. Also see if he is willing to watch Fahrenheit 9/11, I've found that a lot more republicans are willing to watch it now that the election is over and they are starting to feel buyer's remorse.
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. I agree
Gentle support at this point will work better than bludgeoning. Not that you were going to do that.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. agreed
gentle support might work with her -- those kinds of people are frightened, remember. Fear is a big motivator for red state folk.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Can you find out what movie that is?
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. It involves the descent of a republic into an empire...
...you know which one it is even if you don't connect the name right now. Think of the one movie you practically can't avoid this week.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Monster-in-law?
I don't get it.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. I'm thinking this movie is "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith"
'cause the early reviews have already pointed out some parallels, and it is about the descent of the Republic to Empire.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
45. Found it!

Downfall (Der Untergang)

see #43 below for the link.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. 14 characteristics of fascism, Dr. Lawrence Britt
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. here's another
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. That's the best one
I like that one because of the images that go along with it. Sometimes with some people you have to see it to believe it. That's the one I'd show.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. from secularhumanism.org
Edited on Mon May-16-05 12:10 PM by FLDem5
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe
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Stanchetalarooni Donating Member (838 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Newspeak = Newsweek
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Before you get too excited, find out what movie they are going to see. It
will probably be something that twists the truth and makes "all those Liberals to blame."

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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Yeah, might be something that says "Murka is NOTHING like...
...Nazi Germany, so kill any dirty Liberals who try to tell you it is. It's OK, Jeebus wants you to..."
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe you shouldn't pile it on -- might have the opposite effect. n/t
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. you must understand, to US the parallels are scary, to THEM, the
parallels are inspiring.

They apparently WANT a nazification of amerika.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. no, I don't see it that way
To them, those radical activist judges in the Terri Schiavo case are taking pages from Hitler's playbook (umm, never mind that most of them were Republican appointed!) . Same with anybody that is pro - environment (they're eco-terrorists now, remember, even though 80% of Americans are pro-environment), anybody that is pro-choice is part of the culture of death, etc, etc.

To them, it is the left that is Nazifying America.



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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. that's just doublespeak, though...
they WANT the nazification of america, they just don't want to use the words "Nazi" or "hitler" in regards to themselves.

I didn't make myself clear enough.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. They don't think of it as fascism, though
To them,
huge corporations making billions in profits to them is capitalism in its purest form...

To them,
drug & insurance companies lobbying against health care reform is freedom of speech...

To them,
campaign finance reform restricts free speech...

To them,
rolling back anti-pollution laws allows our corporations to compete against those evil commies in China and those socialists in Europe...

To them,
allowing the government to monitor you is fine because they say they have nothing to hide and only the guilty would object...

To them,
the minimum wage hurts the competiveness of American business...
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. right. like I said: doublespeak...
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe they should watch the extras on Chaplain's "The Great Dictator"
to see if any of their relatives were in the Madison Square Garden meeting of the American branch of the Nazi party before we got into the war . . .
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. wonderful... perhaps before fascism 101
Edited on Mon May-16-05 12:17 PM by faithnotgreed
im not clear how you found this out or what she is like so
if you havent already you could understand where theyre coming from and why. was there some conversation you got into when she revealed they are seeing this movie or what were the circumstances
this may reveal all you need to know at this early point since this sounds like it could be an amazing transformation coming on
and in such situations its great to have someone listen with support and understanding with no agenda except caring intellect

rock on friend... slowly but surely
and lets continue to show our colleagues and family who we really are: people who care about each other and this country
the contrast to what bush is doing will continue to be astounding to those who have any part of their mind and heart open

thanks for sharing and let us know

eta: i like the idea too of talking with them more after they have seen this movie and then perhaps the talk can really begin! very intriguing
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. 14 points of Fascism..
Edited on Mon May-16-05 12:19 PM by sam sarrha
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Mike Malloy did a segment on this, too
scroll down until you come to it:

http://www.whiterosesociety.org/Malloy.html

Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism- added 5/27/04
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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Segment not there? Or am I missing something?
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Scroll all the way down to
"A Trip Down Memory Lane"
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ihaveaquestion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Got it, thanks!
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Rainbowreflect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. Very interesting!
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. What movie?
I want a copy of it.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
34. I don't think they think of it as fascism
Edited on Mon May-16-05 01:18 PM by NewJeffCT




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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Downfall?
Deep six the moustache and dub it into English and it would be impossible to tell which country it's about.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Ding, ding, ding..... we have a winner!
:-) see #43 below.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here's a good overview...
http://austinuu.org/sermons/2004/2004-11-07-LivingUnderFascism.html



First UU Church of Austin - Sermons
Living Under Fascism
Davidson Loehr
SERMON: Living Under Fascism

You may wonder why anyone would try to use the word "fascism" in a serious discussion of where America is today. It sounds like cheap name-calling, or melodramatic allusion to a slew of old war movies. But I am serious. I don't mean it as name-calling at all. I mean to persuade you that the style of governing into which America has slid is most accurately described as fascism, and that the necessary implications of this fact are rightly regarded as terrifying....

<<snip>>

...Still, fascism is a word that is completely foreign to most of us. We need to know what it is, and how we can know it when we see it.

In an essay coyly titled "Fascism Anyone?," Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, identifies social and political agendas common to fascist regimes. His comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet yielded this list of 14 "identifying characteristics of fascism." (The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 23, Number 2. Read it at http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm) See how familiar they sound.
<<snip>>

The Perfect Storm
Our current descent into fascism came about through a kind of "Perfect Storm," a confluence of three unrelated but mutually supportive schools of thought.

The first stream of thought was the imperialistic dream of the Project for the New American Century. http://www.newamericancentury.org/ I don't believe anyone can understand the past four years without reading the Project for the New American Century, published in September 2000 and authored by many who have been prominent players in the Bush administrations, including Cheney, Rumsfleid, Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Donald Kagan, to name only a few...
<<snip>>

A second powerful stream must be credited to Pat Robertson and his Christian Reconstructionists, or Dominionists....

<<snip>>

3. The third major component of this Perfect Storm has been the desire of very wealthy Americans and corporate CEOs for a plutocracy that will favor profits by the very rich and disempowerment of the vast majority of American workers, the destruction of worker's unions, and the alliance of government to help achieve these greedy goals...

<<snip>>

What's coming
When all fascisms exhibit the same social and political agendas (the 14 points listed by Britt), then it is not hard to predict where a new fascist uprising will lead....

<<snip>>

Those who want to live in a reality-based story rather than as serfs in an ideology designed to transfer power, possibility and hope to a small ruling elite have much long and hard work to do, individually and collectively....
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. I know this isn't the list you are looking for....
but Tom Hartman wrote this commentary a while back, and I thought it might be appropriate.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-05 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
43. Thanks Everyone! btw... the movie is...
Great links and info! I will take the advise of a lot of you and wait until after they see it, gauge their reactions and inform them accordingly. I was just SO shocked to hear this coming out of her mouth!

The movie they are talking about seeing is called Downfall (Der Untergang)2004

Late in the controversial German film Downfall (Der Untergang), Magda Goebbels (Corinna Harfouch), wife of Hitler's notorious henchman, methodically inserts cyanide capsules into the mouths of her sleeping children. They are too good to live in a world without National Socialism, she says. The film's searing portrayal of an utterly pathetic fanaticism is its most enduring effect.

Oliver Hirschbiegel's visually stunning account of the Third Reich's final days opens with Hitler, brilliantly acted by Bruno Ganz, interviewing Traudl Junge (Alexandra Maria Lara) to be his secretary. The sight of the Fuhrer sweetly caressing his dog Blondie and displaying affection for the nervous Traudl scarcely jibes with familiar images of a fulminating, wildly gesticulating mass-murderer. Where is the "monster" we've come to know? Downfall's effort to humanize the Nazis have incited on controversy, as critics claim it engenders sympathy for Hitler and his murderous cohorts.

The appearance of sympathy is due, in part, to the fact that we see the coda of the Nazi empire through the eyes of an unwitting young secretary holed up in Hitler's famous bunker. To Traudl, the subject of the 2002 documentary Blind Spot: Hitler's Secretary, Hitler is a caring old man who has been betrayed by Nazi generals in his moment of need. At one point, swept up by her emotions, she tells Hitler and his inner circle that she'd rather commit suicide than abandon him before the imminent Soviet capture of Berlin. But later, when in the confidence of her colleague, a bewildered Traudl rues offering up her life so cavalierly. Though she never turns decidedly against him, Traudl's image of a benign Hitler is complicated by his apoplectic fits of anti-Semitism and disdain for German soldiers and civilians.

lots more here> http://www.popmatters.com/film/reviews/d/downfall-2005.shtml

I've put it in my Netflix queue - release date unknown :-(
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-05 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. I don't know if it will be to scary for her but LaRouche has many stories
and photos on his web site concerning nazis and facism, etc.

:kick:
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