Impeach now

[FreedomAngel82]

Here is a great flash that shows why we should impeach him now.

http://www.bushflash.com/occupied.html

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Where is the outrage?

I just watched a documentary about the life of Howard Zinn on the Sundance Channel, and so much of the sixties and seventies, the protests on American college campuses, the marches, the teach-ins, the outrage, the outrage, the outrage from back then stood in such sharp and painful contrast to the silence emanating from these United States in the face of the current lies and murders, filth and corruption.

If there were a draft, I bet we'd see a lot more action amongst our young people.

[FreedomAngel82]

2. I wonder too

:shrug: So strange. Well back then the media was more free to report the truth and not under a dictator ruling. If the draft does come back I personally think it will be in some sort of secrecy. It wouldn't be nationally announced since Bush made a campaign promise.

[Cleita]

9. We were all in our twenties and thirties back then.

But today, it seems that the twenty and thirty year olds think we made this mess and we should be out there protesting. They don't seem to appreciate what we did accomplish, and think the privileges they take for granted today were always there. They don't seem to want to pick up where we left off. We do our best to try to be activists, but let's face it, most of us are too old.

I think the problem is, how do we convince the younger people to become more active in what is happening to their world and to make a better future instead of looking at their parent's and grandparent's generations to do the cleaning up as usual?

[nittygritty]

13. many are spoiled and brainwashed and preoccupied:

the cable tv generation, the video game generation, inheritors of wealth amassed from the 90's economy and stock boom...

they just arn't suffering enough yet.......the key word: YET.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. They're so isolated and safe

If there were a draft - I am convinced of this, but it's hardly a solution - the protests on campuses would be just as vociferous and persistent as were ours.

[kwolf68]

3. Wow

I'm anti-war as much as the next guy and I hate Bush about as bad as you can hate, but this ain't going to go over pretty with the "support our troops" crowd.

It seems to paint the troops as a marauding band of thugs and psychos...We can debate the tactical merits of a lot of what those kids are doing, but we won't win the battle this way in my view.

[FreedomAngel82]

4. The thing to point out

is that the troops weren't sent over there by themselves. It was W and gang who sent them there. The higher officials are the one's to blame. Especially Bush and gang. And I'd rather have the truth to what's going on then paint a nice picture for the "support our troops" gang. It's war. It's never pretty.

[ElectroPrincess]

5. We must be patient ... that's a must -

The Military Industrial Machine is already losing it's numbers. Within two years MAX it will be necessary to do a Rumfeldian Draft: "Suck a bunch of young men an women into the intake and blow em' out over to the Middle East."

IMO, this will play out like it did in Vietnam. After we lose, say 15,000 (because we'll have many more living maimed veterans who spread the bad news back home), this (mal)Administration will begin to lack cannon fodder for these wars much less tangle with Iran.

Presently, the American people are nearly numbed-out with fear (and goofy color threat level gyrations of the past). I believe that we will be able to see a genuine anti-war moment within 3-4 years, with or without a (heaven forbid) a terrorist attack on American soil.

BushCo. have completely used up all their 9-11 points by then. And again, future attacks can not *spin up* more Americans into action, only further shock the populace into a dull sense of depression (vice motivation to serve).

It's ugly but we have no choice to wait and watch this figurative slow train wreak play it's way out over the course of a decade (or two). :(

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. Patient?

Then Vietnam was wasted on us.

Patience?

Maybe you can live with the guilt that accompanies sitting by and doing nothing while people are murdered, but I can't.

[ElectroPrincess]

10. You will be eaten alive emotionally if you don't do good works HERE

and now. We (you and I average American) have NO , ZILCH, ZERO, NADA *voice* regarding the Military Industrial Complex.

Even some of my fellow DUer's who's hero is DEAN ... well, even DEAN thinks we should stay in Iraq. That's just sick because he clearly sold out.

Kerry? He's forgotten his duty to the American people and has failed to show the bravery he demonstrated during Vietnam.

Hey, if I could fathom protesting could have ANY chance of influencing public opinion now, I'd join your efforts. But we don't have a hope ... not a prayer ATT.

Remember that millions of people across the world protested against this invasion and occupation BEFORE it happened? REMEMBER that Bush referred to those millions as "a focus group."

Please tell me something I do not know and I promise to join you in a heartbeat? However, until then, I'm going to take care of the people in my community, and give of myself here to the best of my ability.

We have NO voice now. Yes, we must "be understated" at this time or we will *burn out* from frustration.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

16. It's good you're taking care of those close to you

I'm writing checks to organizations that are doing what they can to clean up behind what America has done in Iraq and Afghanistan - but most of them are British charities. I'm making sure these people have forums in which to speak when they visit the United States. I'm doing everything I can to stay connected with people who are actively working to bring down these illegal squatters in the White House.

There is a demonstration at a local courthouse, protesting our invasion in Iraq, to which I go every Sunday morning, and have done since we invaded in March, 2003.

Howard Zinn puts it well when he says, and I paraphrase, that a movement does not spring up fully-grown, but, rather, starts with individuals and small groups.

We've always been active in our community. I do not see it, as you do, as a choice - you can do both.

[ElectroPrincess]

18. No, not for those "close to me" but the area and world community ...

If you trust these British agencies to donate to, I commend you. I trust no middle entity. If you lived the the area I do ... where people still fly "stars and bars" from their flagpoles and sport "lawn jockeys" at the end of their driveways ... well, let's just say there's no anti-war protests nearby.

The handful of Local Democrats are a loyal but rag tag bunch of kind hearted folks but we haven't a prayer of even winning a local election.

Yes, it is a choice for me because the one or two liberals in my area are not but instead true elite opinion "true SNOBS" because they display their wealth within their homes so ostentatiously it makes me sick. The last so called liberal Christmas party I went to, I kept thinking things like, "I wonder what could be done for others with the cost of that original painting, that harp, those Persian rugs, that statue?" I've been to General Officer's houses that had a less in-your-face look at MY WEALTH on display than this pseudo-local liberal.

New flash, many of our wealthy Democratic representatives don't give a shit about the future of either working OR middle class Americans when push comes to shove.

Nope, I'm using my time and skills to help the poor and disenfranchised of our community ... most likely those who clean the upper middle class and wealthy homes in our area.

I sent care packages to my Brother in Vietnam in the late 60s and we presently contribute to legitimate Veterans' and Disabled Veterans' organizations. That's our choice. My father (Retired WWII US Army Major) is dying in a State Veterans' Hospital.

But no, I don't limit my assistance to just those close to me, neither in relationship or geographic area of residence.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. Just this

It is not inconsistent with liberal beliefs to have nice things, and it is no one else's business how I or any other liberals who have accumulated wealth display it, just as it is not inconsistent to be as angry as you sound about the fact that you are living somewhere that does not seem to be good for you.

In fact, as an attorney, I was fortunate enough to be able to vet the charities to which we contribute, so I thank you for your concern, but it is ill-founded. It's unfortunate, I think, that trust has become such a rare and begrudging commodity in our world. I prefer to err on the side of belief, but that's just me.

In the sixties, I waited for my friends to come home, and almost all of them did. The name of the one who didn't still makes me cry when I visit the Vietnam Wall late some nights.

For someone who started this interesting exchange stating that patience was where we would find surcease, you do seem to be impatient with those who might live differently than you. That is approximately the same stance our government has taken with other countries, most recently Iraq.

If we are going to try to bring peace back into our world, it must begin with each one of us. I wish you peace.

[ElectroPrincess]

20. You're welcome to your opinion ...

I'm going to support the troops by functioning as a PTSD counselor and by providing guidance in surviving in our local economy.

I despise lavish liberals almost as much as racists republicans because they're not only pompous posturing a**holes with regard to personality, they are also hypocrites to their feigned causes.

Just MY opinion - but it is genuine.

It's still America and I have the right to resent those cliques of people who I consider are stealing from the poor, as well as living a lie.

On edit, if you live in a gated community, then you already have your troopers to give you peace. If not, then perhaps we can find common ground.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. What a strange thing you wrote

If I lived in a gated community, what on earth would that have to do with how I live my life, give my time, or support certain causes?

I believe in acceptance, not resenting people for what they have, and in hoping that I'm doing my best.

If I'm affluent, that's my business, and if you resent the affluent, that's your problem.

I do wish you peace and I hope your father is comfortable. I hope things go well for you. Good luck.

[ElectroPrincess]

23. I guess we just don't understand each other. Different classes?

I still have cousins in South Dakota working on the farm lands. If it wasn't for my Father's battlefield commission in WWII, I'd most likely still be back there getting up at 4 AM to milk the cows.

No, I'm not a socialist but I see very little need for excessive demonstrations of wealth. We could afford to drive a Mercedes SUV or Sedan like many of our neighbors, however, we prefer to pay off our mortgage at an earlier date than those who show off.

Forgive me for I don't mean to take my ire out on you in particular. However, I never forgot what it is like for my cousins in South Dakota. I don't feel comfortable showing off my wealth even if I have savings in the bank.

With so many people struggling to survive in this Country, I cringe every time our neighborhood holds a yard sale. Nobody is struggling here, but they're so selfish they must bleed out every penny instead of donating their "good quality" used items to their Church Outreach program or even to Goodwill.

I am so blessed to have been born into a middle class family where I eventually earned a Masters degree. I have traveled the world and discovered that too much emphasis on acquiring "nice things" will be the downfall of our nation.

We disagree. Yes, I know it's wrong and I do try my best to NOT flatly and openly resent people who "show off" their wealth. Even when I can control my ire, and regardless of their economic class, people who shamelessly display their baubles are not my kind of people.

Sincere closing = Best Regards and May Peace Be With You.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Classes

Your assumptions blind you and cause you hardship.

While nothing of your history is especially relevant to the topic at hand, I must assure you that your upbringing, compared to mine, was luxuriant and like nothing that I could ever have imagined. You have no idea how fortunate you were.

And are.

You do seem to be quite concerned about money, yours and others'. Why on earth you think it's relevant here to post about your mortgage payments is beyond me.

You might consider the homeless, sell your house, and give them the money, hmmmm?

Your assumptions cause you to miss much. We don't disagree. Not at all. We just take different paths, and I have no reason to condemn yours, but you find fault with what you assume is how I live.

That's extraneous, wasteful, and sadly divisive.

[ElectroPrincess]

28. I rest my case.

"While nothing of your history is especially relevant to the topic at hand, I must assure you that your upbringing, compared to mine, was luxuriant and like nothing that I could ever have imagined. You have no idea how fortunate you were."

Too arrogant for me to even begin to respond to. I don't wish to start a flame war.

Therefore, I'll just "Rest my Case."

Enjoy your seemingly impenetrable cocoon of superiority. You demonstrate the attitude of "exactly why" many of my working class relatives resent the hell out of wealthy liberals. It's something I just can't explain to you ... something you will not permit yourself to understand.

Later - my fellow DU member. ;)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. Sorry

You refer to your upbringing, and it's valid (for you).

I refer to mine, and it's "arrogant."

You think I'm a "wealthy liberal." And how do you know that?

Your anger blinds you.

If you think I'm superior to you, then, yes, I am, because you've given that away.

I am sorry for you. I hope things get better.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. The troops,

for the most part, are kids who've been lied to and who are assured and reassured every day that they're going to be heroes.

They're children. And not terribly sophisticated children, at that.

As far as "support the troops" goes, I'm having none of it. They're pawns and I don't support pawns. They're also doing things they know - unless they're sociopaths - are wrong, but, once again, they've been brainwashed and lied to.

My godson is in Iraq, and 19-year-old who, in a fit of hormonal independence, believed what a Marine recruiter told him. He's doing things he never imagined, and he is ashamed of himself. But, he's a child, and he's scared. I hope he'll be able to forgive himself as he grows up.

It's not about the troops - it's about the people who've sent those troops to Iraq and Afghanistan. It's about holding them accountable.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Exactly

Every last one of them should be in jail.

[thecai]

12. And Prosecuted....

...to the fullest extent of the law.

[tavalon]

27. Too bad, so sad

It is what it is and it's high time we stopped kowtowing to the right on this issue or frankly, any other issue that they crawl out from under their rock to spew.

[Raksha]

29. That, in itself, is just another replay of the Vietnam situation.

American troops committed atrocities in Vietnam too, and John Kerry is STILL being called a "traitor" in some quarters for telling the world about it. But we (the anti-war people) didn't spit on returning American soldiers any more than he did. He blamed the so-called leaders who sent them into an intolerable no-win situation, not the troops themselves.

Telling the truth NEVER goes over big with the "support our troops" crowd, no matter how much documentation you have or how much time passes.

[thecai]

11. IMPEACH NOW

... before it's too late...

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. I'm sure that the GOP-controlled House will get right on that

[nittygritty]

17. kick.

[MsConduct]

21. Join the Spring Offensive to Impeach.....

www.votetoimpeach.org

[progressoid]

25. Sorry folks but it ain't gonna happen.

Who in congress will begin the articles of impeachment? These are the same people that shirked their own constitutional duties and wrote the shrub a blank check to invade in the first place.

And it certainly won't happen just because of some violations of the Geneva convention.

Reprehensible, inhumane, immoral, shameful, disgraceful? Yes.

Impeachable....?

[lonestarnot]

26. I don't even need to see the flash... It will just piss me off more!

I KNOW all the reasons. But is it gona happen? Hell no!

[katinmn]

31. I hear you. I'm already so outraged that I'm worried I'll blow a

gasket.
:nuke: