DU this poll "Do you believe US Interrogators desecrated Koran?"

[UdoKier]

http://www.sfgate.com/

Even SF folks are buying intro the corporate media spin on this.

[Darkhawk32]

1. Done and done. n/t

[jaxx]

2. this from the Kos

http://dailykos.com/story/2005/5/15/211444/985

Seems the Newsweek article wasn't the only reference to the toilet stuffing.

[Tinoire]

8. Terrific- reposting those (some examples) here

That's about the 3rd set of information backing up these incidentS. When I get home tonight, I'm going to compile them all because what Newsweek reported has already been reported before, many times, and we MUST not allow those perverts to get away with this.

Until the day they can retract their ACTIONS, it's futile to ask Newsweek to retract its reporting. No one who's been paying any attention (and that would be most of the rest of the world) is going to buy a White-House forced retraction.


A. From The Philadelphia Inquirer, Jan. 20, 2005:

Lawyers allege abuse of 12 at Guantanamo
By Frank Davies
Inquirer Washington Bureau

<.......................>

Some detainees complained of religious humiliation, saying guards had defaced their copies of the Koran and, in one case, had thrown it in a toilet, said Kristine Huskey , who interviewed clients late last month. Others said that pills were hidden in their food and that people came to their cells claiming to be their attorneys, to gain information.

"All have been physically abused, and, however you define the term, the treatment of these men crossed the line," (attorney Tom) Wilner said. "There was torture, make no mistake about it." ...

B. From the Center for Constitutional Rights, New York City, NY and linked as a footnote in a Human Rights Watch report:

72.They were never given prayer mats and initially they didn't get a Koran. When the Korans were provided, they were kicked and thrown about by the guards and on occasion thrown in the buckets used for the toilets. This kept happening. When it happened it was always said to be an accident but it was a recurrent theme.

C. From the Center for Constitutional Rights, New York City, NY and linked as a footnote in a Human Rights Watch report:

74. Asif says that `it was impossible to pray because initially we did not know the direction to pray, but also given that we couldn't move and the harassment from the guards, it was simply not feasible. The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it. It is clear to me that the conditions in our cells and our general treatment were designed by the officers in charge of the interrogation process to "soften us up"'.

D. From the Center for Constitutional Rights, New York City, NY and linked as a footnote in a Human Rights Watch report:

Statement of Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmed, "Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay," released publicly on August 4, 2004, para. 72, 74, available online at:
http://www.ccr- ny.org/v2/reports/docs/
Gitmo=compositestatementFINAL23july04.pdf,
accessed on August 19, 2004.

The disrespect of the Koran by guards at Camp X-Ray was one of the factors prompting a hunger strike. Ibid., para. 111-117.

http://dailykos.com/story/2005/5/15/211444/985

===

On August 18, 2004, ANSA, the Italian news agency, wrote of the families of detainees from Bahrain at Guantanamo:


"The families' anxiety grew after the publication of a report by the Bahrain Centre for Human Rights (BCHR), which contained information about tortures and maltreatment of prisoners. The report, based on testimony by three former Guantanamo prisoners,
Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Rhuhel Ahmad, defines as brutal the methods of the U.S. jailers. According to the report, prisoners were brutally beaten and compelled to watch other prisoners sodomising each other by force. The 150-page document says reptiles were taken to the cells in an attempt to force prisoner confessions, while the Koran was thrown into the toilets before the eyes of the detained."

http://www.juancole.com/2005/05/guantanamo-controversies-bible-and.html

[IChing]

3. It will not let me vote

I cannot get it to let me in on 'vote here'

41 yes
47 no

[UdoKier]

7. If you're a mac user, you need to use IE not Safari.

NT

[otohara]

4. They Did Everything Else But

flush Korans down the toilet...

voted..

[Jo March]

5. done

It was 41% - yes
47% - no
13% - need an investigation

[cruadin]

6. Done--yes 41% -no 46% right now.

[illflem]

9. Better than CNN's current poll which asks,

Do you rate "Everybody Loves Raymond" as one of TV's best sitcoms?

[lies and propaganda]

11. cant stand it,

though I do enjoy it more than any given moment on CNN.

[Mist]

10. As of now: Yes: 44% and No: 45%

12% think there should be an investigation to find out what happened. Actually, the poll's a bit off; 44 + 45 + 12 = 101.

[Catrina]

16. I couldn't vote either

This is what I got but I don't have AOL ~ I did not try to vote before. I will email them.


Sorry, your vote has not been recorded.

We're using safeguards to prevent people from voting multiple times.
If you're using AOL or a corporate network, you may have received this message because other people using your network are voting at this time. Please try again in a little while. If you still receive this message please send us an email. Thank You.

[PsychoDad]

12. Too bad you can't pick 1 and 3

Open hearings on the abuse at gitmo and elsewhere are a must!

[Nite Owl]

13. It's even now

44/44

[nittygritty]

14. done.

[FSogol]

15. Voted: 45% yes 44% no

[kansasblue]

17. 944 responses 45% yes

[Blue_In_AK]

18. I voted. It's now at 46 (yes), 43 (no), 11 (investigation)

[Jack_DeLeon]

19. Where is the yes, but I dont care option?

I voted yes, but I hardly thinking flushing a Koran or any book down the toilet is an "abuse" to anything other than the plumbing.

[lala_rawraw]

20. If Newsweek goes down over this...

I will fucking lose it man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Catchawave]

26. CBS didn't go down, and survived Rathergate....

So will Newsweek :) But I totally understand your angst, this is really MSM rock bottom caving in. It's also a time to reveal their sources, though I know this would hurt further investigative reporting, I'm getting sick of the "unreliable sources say" too!

Keith Olbermann's the one to watch now, 8pm/MSNBC/weeknights. He doesn't swallow the Rove feeds :evilgrin:

[lala_rawraw]

29. in a secretive government...

sometimes you only get one source... if they are credible, you have no choice because how else will you get info? however, prior to running the story, you provide the other side with the option on denying, commenting, etc. Not denying is equal to confirmation...

Sources will not come forward if they have to be named, because they risk a great deal. I used "unnamed" sources a great deal, but I vet them, and I have worked with them enough to trust them... but, if they suddenly handed me bad info, which on the surface checked out... i would be in the same situation... you see?

Sources are the life-blood of investigative reporting. They have to be protected as do the journos covering them.

[Catchawave]

31. Thanks lala....

...I forgot about Deep Throat :) And we need one of those desperately in today's MSM for this administration.

I think my frustration is with news reported from our government, when a simple "White House source sez" or a "Pentagon source sez"....I want that name!!!

Like who was Newsweek's source? I don't believe they ran the Koran story without some gov't input.

Thanks again for the info
:hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Done

It looks like yes is winning with 46%.

[Tinoire]

22. Voted yes - US Interrogators are TRAINED to do such things

"I'm a former US military officer, and had the 'pleasure' of attending SERE school--Search, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape.

The course I attended . . . had a mock POW camp, where we had a chance to be prisoners for 2-3 days. The camp is also used as a training tool for CI (counter-intelligence), interrogators, etc for those running the camp.

One of the most memorable parts of the camp experience was when one of the camp leaders trashed a Bible on the ground, kicking it around, etc. It was a crushing blow, even though this was just a school.

I have no doubt the stories about trashing the Koran are true.

(reluctant snip)

3. This incident with the bible trashing. Camp was (in the late 1990s). It was towards the end of the camp experience, which was 2-3 days of captivity. We were penned in concrete cell blocks about 4' x 4' x 4'--told to kneel, but allowed to squat or sit. There was no door, just a flap that could be let down if it was too cold outside (which it was--actually light snow fell). Each trainee was interrogated to some extent, all experienced some physical interrogation such as pushing, shoving, getting slammed against a wall (usually a large metal sheet set up so that it would not seriously injure trainees) with some actually water-boarded (not me).

The bible trashing was done by one of the top-ranked leaders of the camp, who was always giving us speeches--sort of 'making it real' so to speak, because it is a pretty contrived environment. But by the end it almost seemed real. Guards spoke English with a Russian accent, wore Russian-looking uniforms. So the bible trashing happened when this guy had us all in the courtyard sitting for one of his speeches. They were tempting us with a big pot of soup that was boiling--we were all starving from a few days of chow deprivation. He brought out the bible and started going off on it verbally--how it was worthless, we were forsaken by this God, etc. Then he threw it on the ground and kicked it around. It was definitely the climax of his speech. Then he kicked over the soup pot, and threw us back in the cells. Big climax. And psychologically it was crushing and heartbreaking, and then we were left isolated to contemplate this.

And all of these moods and thoughts were created in this fake camp--just imagine how it is for these guys at Gitmo.

So many have tried to commit suicide....by now they all must have some serious psychological problems. This is without a doubt torture. Premeditated, planned....a fine lot of criminals we have in charge of the USA these days. Gitmo is so Orwellian--so Room 101. They are playing on the deepest feelings and fears."

http://www.juancole.com/2005/05/guantanamo-controversies-bible-and.html

[booley]

23. in a way it doesn't matter if they did

First it's weird how while the MSM admits that there have been other people saying that this happened... it's all being laid on one guy who is being called a lier. what about thos eother peopel who said the same thing?

and Newsweek's apology seems more to try to calm things down since this seems to have blown up into full riots. They might consider the truth secondary to stopping more deaths. And even I can see that point.

BUT what really bothers me is the way the MSM and the Shrubbery are talking as if this was the only beef the Muslim world had against US foriegn policy. as if if Newsweek hadn't printed this story then the Muslim world would be loving Shrub's actions right now.

Guess they never heard that saying about straws and camel backs.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

24. done

48% yes
41% no
11% need investigation

:kick:

[AFSCME girl]

25. done n/t

[GreenPoet64]

27. done n/t kick

[applegrove]

28. People also desecrate the Koran when they become terrorists in

its name.

How come that doesn't get the attention? Why is it time to attack the press but not go deeper into the desecration of the Koran?

[lakeguy]

30. 50% yes...

and you know they did.

[patricia92243]

32. Can't find place to vote on the website.

[RebelOne]

33. It on left of page under News and Features.

Click on Polls.

[KansDem]

34. HA! I like the "your vote is being processed" message that pops up...

right after you vote; has a certain ominous sound to it, like I expect the message to read, "Wait while we activate the vote-switching software."

[0007]

35. Nothing like hiding the voting privilege - How many potential

voters got discouraged and left without voting. This poll won't even give ya the total vote count.

It sucks.