This Newsweek thing smells fishy. Look at this picture.

[Brotherjohn]

http://xrl.us/NewsweekProtesPicture

The signs read: "Newsweek deserves to be banned" and "Bush should apologise for desecration of the Quran".

For starters, the signs look WAY to uniform and manufactured... it's as if some PR firm made them for the protestors.

Now, the signs say "Raza Academy" in small print at the bottom, which a quick Google finds is is an institution in Bombay (Mumbai), India, founded "for the sole purpose giving Islamic Knowledge to children and youngsters as well as old people". (http://www.razaacademy.com/aboutus.html)

I'm sure they are capable of producing the signs if they felt the need to. But the strangest thing is, why would they be calling to Newsweek to be banned?? I'd think their ire would be aimed straight at Bush. But angry at Newsweek for "betraying" their enemy?

THINK about it. If they believed this to be true, why would they be mad at Newsweek for reporting it?! I'd think they'd be happy Newsweek brought it into the open!

[ck4829]

1. Correction: "Bush deserves to be banned"

[bpilgrim]

76. LOOK at the other side of the sign ------------------------> IMAGE

http://news.globalfreepress.com

peace

[Griffy]

145. I promise.. this is to keep the Blair Memo out of the Public Eye!!!

That memo is the smoking gun.. we all know it.. "fixed facts around the policy" ... I wouldn't be suprised if bushco was responsible for making the Afgans AWARE of the newsweek report (though we know these stories of Koran desicration have been out for years). Bonus to the distraction is a stab at newsweek, another notch in the bush idea that any news that reports truth will be shut down!

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MEDIA.. I was at the refom conference... focus on media and we'll win....

.. btw .. good call on the "banned" sign idea, the Afgans would not want to ban Newsweek for reporting it, but I bet they didnt know the people telling them about the report were paid by bush to spread it!

[Pathwalker]

2. Oh, there you go thinking Logically again....

you know how the Chimperor hates that. ;-)

[rndmprsn]

3. agreed....this while episode reeks of a rove plant.

to get and keep the librul media in line...oh my god, its come to this?!

[FreedomAngel82]

15. More then likely

Nothing would surprise me. It definitely smells like that. They seemed to be running with the story and then they so quickly backtracked? :wtf:

[rndmprsn]

18. perhaps newsweek was going to do a story on the memo?

or some one was...it would be like how he went after CBS and then they dropped a story into the missing weapons (or something else can't remember exactly) and the NYTimes dropping their story on bush's listening device during the debates...

[goclark]

115. ROVE fingerprints are all over this IMO nt

[Hobarticus]

4. I don't think they see a difference between our bought-and-paid-for press

and our government.

Come to think of it, they're on to something.

[ET Awful]

5. Ask yourself this question . . .

What other story could Newsweek have been planning on printing in the near future that would prompt the Whitehouse to make attempts to discredit them before it ran?

Was Newsweek planning a story on the memo? Were they planning something else?

What would motivate an obvious attempt to discredit them?

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Maybe

Or maybe there is something else to this story they didn't want out? :shrug: I don't get it either.

[Kurovski]

22. Today, Randi Rhodes read reports of the desecration

occurring in the past, 2001.

Maybe the protests over the desecration of the Koran were known of in advance and this report in Newsweek was a set-up to make it seem as though this form of torture was a new, isolated incident?

[AuntiBush]

45. Hmmm... Does the UK Tony Blair Memo Come to Mind?

It will be on Countdown with Keith Olbermann tonight at 8 pm EST.
Direct attention away from Fillibuster?
Frist?
Delay?
War Lies?

Just a thought... ;)

[ET Awful]

51. That's why I sais "story on the memo" in my post. n/t

[AP]

6. Shifts the blame off Bush and the USA. I wonder if Raza Academy gets NED $

???

[Brotherjohn]

10. "NED"? Defense money from the U.S.?

I don't know the "NED" reference, but that's what I was wondering.

[AP]

26. National Endowment for Democracy -- money used for "building democracies"

which really means money for groups opposing governments the US doesn't like and supporting causes that help US corps make money.

[KittyWampus]

28. The NED Has Done Many Good Things. Just Like The Supreme Court

it all depends on whether the majority party running it is Democratic or Republican.

Your attempt to basically slur the entirety of the NED is on par with those who want to label Edwards a Bilderburger.

It's despicable.

Congratulations.

Too bad you didn't do more research into what the NED is and what it has accomplished (good AND bad).

[AP]

53. What has the N.E.D. done that is good?

Seriously, I'm open to being convinced.

I'm reading Howard Friel's book, The record of the paper : how the New York Times misreports US foreign policy. In the chapter on Venezuela it says that every year or two, the state department issues its budget requirements for the next period of time. They State Department ranks the concerns for each country and then gets money to achieve their goals. When Clinton was president, "promoting democracy" was ranked low because Clinton was happy with the way democracy was working there. And being ranked low meant that no money was going to promoting anyone -- Chavez's party or the RW parties.

Since Bush became president, with no change in leadership or policy and with MORE elections than, (which have been won by Chavez) "promoting democracy" has moved to the top of the list. This has meant that NED money has poured into Venezuela and all of it has gone to groups opposed to the government -- a government which Clinton liked.

(Incidentally, that's the kind of research I did before I posted here -- the kind you accuse me of not doing.)

Also, NED is divided into four groups. Two of which are "democratic" and two of which are "republican." Nonetheless, I've never heard of NED money going to any group that isn't down with neoliberalism.

But if you have evidence that NED supported good causes, rather than call me despicable, or moan my research skills, why don't you take the opportunity to post it here?

[KittyWampus]

68. For Christs Sake- Search BackThru Primary Crap. I Posted A Whole List

and really can't be bothered.

YOU YOURSELF just posted that half is democratic and half republican.

No, I did my research before and no longer have the links.

Anyone who really cares about the Truth will dig deeper than the Leftist sites using the NED as a punching bag.

[AP]

79. You can be bothered to scold me, but you can't be bothered

to post your research which contradicts my research -- which I just showed you that I did (after you accused me of doing none).

Just tell me one thing they've done that's good. Just because they have two of four divisions which claim they care about labor and "democratic" principles doesn't mean they've done anything that is arguably not neoliberal and is, infact, pro-working people, pro-democracy.

[oblivious]

82. Just caught this on whatreally happened

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=7851

The Reporters Without Borders Fraud
...For many years, various critics have denounced the largely political actions of the Parisian entity, particularly with regards to Cuba and Venezuela, whose characteristics that utilizes propaganda is obvious.

...Former U.S. president, Ronald Reagan, created the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) in 1983, during a period in which military violence took the place of traditional diplomacy in order to resolve international matters. Thanks to its powerful ability of financial penetration, the NED’s goal is to weaken governments that would oppose the foreign hegemonic power of Washington. (2) In Latin America, the two targets are Cuba and Venezuela.

For example, the NED financed and continues financing the Venezuelan opposition, responsible for the coup d’état against President Chávez, April 2002.

[AP]

116. For Christ's sake, that's research!!

Still waiting to hear about the good things NED does.

[Frederik]

152. Yes, I would like to see that as well.

[rodeodance]

56. NED $ worked AGAINST chevez and Haiti

[getmeouttahere]

139. Anything that the current administration calls "working for...

democracy" is actually code for "working for unfettered capitalism." If they really believed in democracy, they would leave Venezuela and it's democratically-elected government alone. But instead, one coup has already been attempted and another is surely in the works.

www.handsoffvenezuela.org

[oblivious]

67. "Shifts the blame off Bush and the USA." YES, makes the most sense.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

7. "Our message is confused as hell.."

"And we're not gonna take it any more!"

"No no not take, GIVE yes yes GIVE it anymore, no wait ummm"

"Just what do these signs say anyway?"


:rofl:

[paineinthearse]

8. I smell a big rat

named KKKarl Rove.

[glitch]

20. a big ugly fat pink bald rat

no offense to big ugly fat pink bald people. Or rats.

[blondeatlast]

32. KKKarl's in a class by hinself, as yet unnamed. nt

[atommom]

73. An as-yet-unclassified species of rodent.

[glitch]

150. how about roventia?

short-lived, soon to be extinct.

[dogday]

9. Those guys are thinking when do we get paid

[fooj]

11. Just another power play by Shrub and Co.

They are shameless. What makes this administration the paragon of virtue, anyway? Hell, they have LIED about almost EVERYTHING! I call it CREDIBILITY...of which they have NONE of!

Peace.

[xxqqqzme]

38. Moyers pointed out in his

speech yesterday that one truth was told by CPB's tomlinson @ the close of his interview by o-lielly...tomlinson said "WE really enjoy your show". That WE can be any combination U can imagine.

[johnaries]

12. NPR this a.m. interviewed someone who said they don't see

the difference between Newsweek and Bush.

[Brotherjohn]

17. Now that's simply odd, too.

Why would they think they were the same?! One is a news organization reporting on your enemy, and in none too flattering terms. The other is your enemy.

The fact that NPR is interviewing someone who says he "sees no difference" implies to me that he's a plant sent out there to discredit Newsweek.

It's as though (in both the picture and the interview) someone was told to spread the talking point... "We hate Bush and America! And we hate Newsweek for saying this!!"

[lala_rawraw]

60. Right, because they are that stupid? Come on you guys

this looks bad... who wants to help dig?

[Drewskie]

138. Moron

Whoever said that has to be a moron who has never read a Jonathan Alter article... Alter, especially, and many of the other Newsweek writers have done a good job of uncovering the wrongs of the Bush people. Thus why they are being targeted now...

[kwolf68]

13. Outstanding analysis

If you were to say this to a Republican lackey their head would rotate 360 degrees and blow off their shoulders.

[otohara]

14. Under Activities Link - Last Date is 2000 - WTF???

http://www.razaacademy.com/

This is very fishy!

[blondeatlast]

33. Very interesting. I smell a KKKarl. nt

[notadmblnd]

44. you're right

looks like the last time the site was updated was March 2002.

[ComerPerro]

19. Good point. The messages conflict.

[rodeodance]

55. you would think the WH would want newsweek banned.

....THINK about it. If they believed this to be true, why would they be mad at Newsweek for reporting it?! I'd think they'd be happy Newsweek brought it into the open!

[EvolvedChimp]

21. It almost looks like the signs have been edited

Parts seem off white and artifically blurred but maybe its just me. Though even before I read the post it struck me.

[nashville_brook]

23. see my post! i totally agree!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3667265

this is BUSHSHIT!!!

[Bluebear]

24. I thought EXACTLY the same thing. Smells very fishy. nt

[Turn CO Blue]

25. Those pics look photo-shopped to me.

Am I wrong or missing something?

Look at the way the "Raza Academy" letters are cut off at the top on the pic on the left.

[kikiek]

27. Newsweek story is taking all the attention from the memo story. That is

the real news. I think it is fishy too. Once again they are portrayed as the victims of liberal bias. CBS cleaned house and became RW cheerleaders. Will be interesting to see what Newsweek does.

[Bluebear]

29. EXACTLY and kick

[dogindia]

62. yes, yes kick

[blondeatlast]

30. If it seems "too convenient" look for KKKarl.

The dumb F still thinks of himself as a genius, too.

Even Ed Schultz was kind of hinting at it (that its a Karl Rove setup).

[intheflow]

31. I agree, and thought the same thing when I saw the signs.

What this is, probably, is Rove outsourcing manufactured dissent againt Newsweek to India. Because you know, all those brown people look the same to Murkins.

:puke:

[K8-EEE]

34. THIS WHOLE THING IS PHONY AS HELL!

A whipped up planted "crisis of the media." I get madder and madder at the fools who believe this shit!

[ultraist]

97. I agree, this whole incident has been fucking scripted

[DrRang]

123. As an ex-sign painter . . .

Yeah, that lettering was done by a professional, judging by the spacing and consistent thickness and tilt, even though the painter was using a deliberately casual style.

[paula777]

35. Also, their signs of protest would be in Arabic, not english -

This is STAGED

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. Not necessarily.

I believe it's staged, but not because of the language on the signs.

[donkeyotay]

36. Good point. Why ban Newsweek for reporting it?

Also, look at the language used:

"Newsweek deserves to be banned," not "Ban Newsweek!"
and "Bush should apologize for desecration of the Quran," not "Apologize for desecrating the Quoran!"

Maybe they're just very polite, or maybe something got lost in the translation, but I think you're onto something.

[Festivito]

37. Who first posted these pictures? LINK?

The picture link used here is a redirect. What MSM posted these pics?

Certainly the protesters should not be mad at Newsweek unless they are mad at the bad researching. Which leads to the added question, when were these posted -- as well as by whom.

[Brotherjohn]

41. SELF DELETE.

[Brotherjohn]

Yahoo news... AP Photo. I shortened the link b/c Yahoo news photo...

... URLs are notoriously long, and i wasn't sure if the link would work.

It was the headline pic on Huffington Blog earlier, with a link to the story. Then Newsweek "retracted" (partially) and the headline changed.

[Festivito]

88. I'd still love to see the LINK, long or not. New article title, Old title?

A couple of paragraphs would be nice. The real link, long or not is helpful. Even if the title changes the old one might give a google hit.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. What is the provenance of the photos?

It does seem odd in several ways.

[oxbow]

40. Perhaps AmericaBlog or some other independent reporter

can get to the bottom of this. Any suggestions who to send it to?

[lala_rawraw]

96. Um... what do you think I am doing here?

[oxbow]

140. oh yea

sorry, i'm still fairly new here. Forgot we have our own resident rw story reporter here!

[Bethany Rockafella]

42. I just wrote about that.

I think an invesitgation is in order of those American made signs.

Leftist Bloggers, please investigate this. Get on the job!

[thecrow]

43. I agree with you on the signs

I'm an artist, and these signs look like they are rubber stamped as far as some of the print on them. WAY to uniform and some of the letters look exactly like other letters.
This jumped out at me when I first saw them. I enlarged them just to get a better look.
Signs made by hand, even by the same person. wouldn't look this uniform.
Maybe the Indians have extreme handwriting skills, so I could be wrong, but I would say these signs lean toward the photoshopped.

[Brotherjohn]

46. Oh, that's not really what I'm saying. They have print shops in India.

Mainly what I'm saying is the wording and nature of the signs is suspicious. Given the whole "Mission Accomplished" situation, and the nature of this admin (hiring PR firms to promote it's image, sometimes covertly, around the world), together with the professional appearance of the signs, it just reeked of "a little White House help".

[bpilgrim]

117. these signs were not PRINTED they were hand made, imho

i am no expert but i do work with graphics/fonts daily

look at the E for example they are all different.

it was either a brush or more likely a thick marker.

i think everyone hasn't considered the real possibility that they are rightfully PISSED at NW for folding to the bush crime family.

peace

[jmowreader]

148. I don't think they're rubber stamped

Something tells me that the HP DesignJet and other wide-carriage inkjet printers have made their way to the Middle East. Certainly printing presses have.

I have printed things in a hurry before. These signs aren't that complex. If I wanted to whip up some protest signs and all I had was a conventional printing plant with at least a two-color press in it, it would take me about three hours from the time I walked in the door until I had a thousand protest signs dry, trimmed and ready to pass out. This would be MUCH quicker than printing them on a wide-carriage inkjet! (And if I had a 40-inch press, I could run both signs on the same sheet.)

Americans and Europeans print protest signs--look at any large abortion march, peace protest or general-purpose Bush bash. Why is it so strange to think people in that part of the world wouldn't do it too?

[Junkdrawer]

47. Speaking of signs...

All signs point, to the discerning reader, to a manufactured "you can't believe the media on torture" scandal as phony as the toppling of Saddam's statue.

[notadmblnd]

48. Was watching LouDobbs do this story, I just sent him your

statement in an e-mail.. I hope you don't mind.

[autorank]

50. Brotherjohn, EXCELLENT INSIGHT...REALLY EXCELLENT!

[brettdale]

52. so newsweek is suppose to be liberal huh!

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/index.php?id=3

Never mind that the New York Times has already asserted that all the facts in “Fahrenheit 9/11” check-out (see Philip Shenon’s “ Will Michael Moore’s Facts Check Out?”), Newsweek’s chief investigative reporter Michael Isikoff has made it his mission to discredit the film. After issuing a sharp response to Isikoff’s first swipe at the film (“Under the Hot Lights,” Newsweek, June 28th), Craig Unger, author of “House of Bush, House of Saud,” is back to expose Isikoff’s latest distortions. Here is Unger's point-by-point clarification (The following is also available on his website www.houseofbush.com):

[Cha]

58. I thought of that! That it had to come

to this after all the Ass Kissing issikoff did for the bushits!

Ya just never know who's going to be taken to the woodshed..hell it could be bush one of these days!!

[rodeodance]

63. apologise is the British spelling for aapologize. India was colony of

England (you all know).


"Bush should apologise for desecration of the Quran".

[Cha]

54. I didn't have to think about it..

it screamed "OXYMORON!".. the second I read it!

[Eric J in MN]

57. top link didn't work (nt)

nt

[rodeodance]

59. worked for me--but where did they come from? Link?

[rodeodance]

61. oh, sorry, I see you say it is a newsweek photo.

[lala_rawraw]

64. So where is this IP

So first I get this:

Domain Name: RAZAACADEMY.COM

Registrant:
Rhazes Technologies
Mohammad Azim S Mujawar ([e-mail])
Shop 10, Archies Apartment,
Oak Baug,
Opp Rly Station,
Kalyan
Maharashtra,421301
IN
Tel. [phone]

Creation Date: 18-Sep-2001
Expiration Date: 18-Sep-2005

Domain servers in listed order:
ns6.rhazestech.com
ns7.rhazestech.com


Administrative Contact:
Rhazes Technologies
Mohammad Azim S Mujawar ([e-mail])
Shop 10, Archies Apartment,
Oak Baug,
Opp Rly Station,
Kalyan
Maharashtra,421301
IN
Tel. [phone]

Technical Contact:
Rhazes Technologies
Mohammad Azim S Mujawar ([e-mail])
Shop 10, Archies Apartment,
Oak Baug,
Opp Rly Station,
Kalyan
Maharashtra,421301
IN
Tel. [phone]

Billing Contact:
Rhazes Technologies
Mohammad Azim S Mujawar ([e-mail])
Shop 10, Archies Apartment,
Oak Baug,
Opp Rly Station,
Kalyan
Maharashtra,421301
IN
Tel. [phone]

__________________

then I ran the email: http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/mail.ch?domain=azim%40rhazestech.com

OrgName: Vortech Inc.
OrgID: VTC1
Address: 106 S. Semoran Blvd.
City: Orlando
StateProv: FL
PostalCode: 32807
Country: US

NetRange: 216.157.128.0 - 216.157.159.255
CIDR: 216.157.128.0/19
NetName: VORTECH-BLK-1
NetHandle: NET-216-157-128-0-1
Parent: NET-216-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: DNS.ANONYMOUS-SERVERS.COM
NameServer: DNS2.ANONYMOUS-SERVERS.COM
Comment:
RegDate: 2002-08-09
Updated: 2004-07-12

TechHandle: BAP16-ARIN
TechName: Pugh, Brad Alan
TechPhone: [phone]
TechEmail: *******@vortechhosting.com

OrgTechHandle: BAP16-ARIN
OrgTechName: Pugh, Brad Alan
OrgTechPhone: [phone]
OrgTechEmail: *******@vortechhosting.com

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2005-04-25 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

So someone more tech oritented explain this to me?

[lala_rawraw]

66. and this

http://translate.google.com/translate?pev=/language_tools&u=http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:70cW0sRxEoIJ:de.indymedia.org/2003/03/46597.shtml+%2522vortechhosting.com%2522++%2522bush%2522&hl=en

[lala_rawraw]

70. blast, the link does not work... this had to be google translated

Info. throwing acres: yellowtimes.org again taken by the net

of indexoncensorship - 25,03,2003 10:02

In an earlier report it was announced that the Aktivisten Website was taken yellowtimes.org by the net, because this Website of the US government showed "unwanted" pictures of prisoner of war GIs. After the pictures had been removed, the Website was again activated (see http://www.de.indymedia.org/2003/03/46323.shtml ).

In the meantime the Site operators had replaced the pictures by a left to the pictures on another Site. This regarded the Provider however likewise as offence against patriotic citizen obligations. It took the complete Website again without comment from the net and closed the E-Mail account of the operator.

Who the Provider VORTECH Inc. its opinion to its patriotic censorship airs to communicate would like can this on the following way do:

phone: [phone]
mail: support @ vortechhosting.com





In an earlier report it was announced that the Aktivisten Website was taken yellowtimes.org by the net, because this Website of the US government showed "unwanted" pictures of prisoner of war GIs. After the pictures had been removed, the Website was again activated (see http://www.de.indymedia.org/2003/03/46323.shtml ).

In the meantime the Site operators had replaced the pictures by a left to the pictures on another Site. This regarded the Provider however likewise as offence against patriotic citizen obligations. It took the complete Website again without comment from the net and closed the E-Mail account of the operator.

Who the Provider VORTECH Inc. its opinion to its patriotic censorship airs to communicate would like can this on the following way do:

phone: [phone]
mail: support @ vortechhosting.com

[Daphne08]

65. You're right!!

[GreenPoet64]

69. Very good catch! Good job!! n/t

[lala_rawraw]

71. okay... so what is the answer?

anyone?

[blondeatlast]

75. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the people pictured are Indian, not

Middle Eastern. I'm married to an Indian and we have friends in most Indian ethnic groups.

They appear to be too dark for ME, especially the younger one, and his features are very Punjabi looking, IMHO (hubby is a light skinned Punjab). Note the domain is registered to an Indian company as well.

Lots of religious unrest in India right now between the Hindus and Muslims.

[blondeatlast]

86. Hubby confirms they are definitely Indian, btw. nt

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

72. Brother John saw who the message was intended for: (brilliant!)

Pissed off Muslims WOULD NOT have signs that say "Newsweek should be banned (in English?!!) but pissed off neocons would. And now we're back to the "be very careful what you say" era that is exactly what we had immediately post 911. Better investigation and intuition went into this post than I think Newsweek has done on their own behalf. They are in full-defensive deer-in-the-headlight posture and maybe they ought to think, breathe, collect before they just totally cave.
And circle the wagons and mount the strong defense that CBS did not.

Thank God the Downing Street memo is BRITISH and will bob up and resurface again and again and again and again and again.

[atommom]

74. This isn't one of their biggest crimes, but their manipulation of the

press is really starting to scare me. Why does no one else seem to notice???

[lala_rawraw]

77. What do you think I keep saying when I beg for

People to support the indie press and protect them from this kind of crap? Everytime a journalist is "the target", I am screaming my brains out. An attack on them, is an attack on free speech, which is in turn an attack on Democracy.

(oh, next time I am smeared, can someone do me a favor and defend me?)...lmao:D

We have to shift focus away from lobby groups and provide funds for the alternative press...otherwise, we go buh bye:(

[loudsue]

111. Bingo, lala!!! We desperately need funds for a truly FREE

press! I'm astonished that nobody at Newsweek has called "FOWL" from the rooftops.

They may feel bad that the TRUTH has caused Muslim protests across the globe, directed at the U.S. interrogators in Gitmo. But SOMEBODY should be protesting what's going on at Gitmo...I'm just disappointed that AMERICANS aren't protesting what's going on there! After all, it's OUR TAX DOLLARS that are paying for the torture and human rights abuses there.

Newsweek simply did what REAL JOURNALISTS are supposed to do! They reported what was told to them by someone who was there.

Now, when more terrorist attacks (the new Jihad) occur in the U.S. because of how we treat the Quran in Gitmo, bush and his cronies are going to go bomb some new Muslim country.

Everything the neocon regime does is like a circle jerk: Deface the Quran in a place where Muslim prisoners are being abused. When Muslim protesters declare Jihad, and attack the U.S., the neocons go bomb a Muslim country. Then, they take prisoners, and take them to Gitmo. Then the desecrate the Quran and torture the prisoners. Then, protesters rise up and declare a new Jihad. Then, terrorist attacks occur. Then, the U.S. bombs another Muslim country.

And round and round we go.

Newsweek just phucked up royally by sucking up to bush/rove. And the news media (Newsweek in this instance) is putting themselves in a total no-win position by doing that. Either they report the truth, and let those responsible be held accountable, or they get hung by whatever noose might come after their necks the next time.

Newsweek is trying to take responsibility for what the bush regime is doing, and it's time they said "enough is enough. You broke it, you buy it."

:kick:

[spanone]

78. Great question! This looks totaly, completely staged.

Signs from Wal-Mart.

[kcwayne]

80. When did religion and logic ever occupy the same stage?

One sign says Newsweek should be banned, presumably because they reported a falsehood? And the other says Bush should apologize for descrating the Quran.

So which is it? These two premises are mutally exclusive.

If your religion, whatever it may be, is so weak minded that someone burning some paper with ink on it causes you great emotional grief, you should retool with a smarter religion. And if you are willing to riot and kill people over some perceived "insult", you should commit suicide and improve the gene pool.

[Frederik]

153. The people were killed by Afghani police

and they were not "rioting". This whole thing is extremely suspect. General Myers said that the demonstrations/"riots" were not connected to the Koran desecrations, by the way.

Jeesus, your post reeks of bigotry and ignorance.

[kcwayne]

156. Who is ignorant?

Every day you can read about some religious fanatic doing something horrifically violent to someone. It can be wacked out Christian freaks drowning their children, amputating arms, gouging out eyes, stabbing people, or committing unspeakable torture. It can be wacked out Muslims doing honor killings of their sisters or wives, hanging adolescents that speak back to authority, tracking down authors or journalists that "insult" their faith and murdering them, blow up school busses with children in them because they are Jews, riot, yes I said RIOT, killing hundreds over a beauty pagent that demeans Mohammed, blah, blah, blah. I could spend the rest of my life citing examples of this lunacy.

Deny it if you like, ignorance is bliss.

[teryang]

157. 2 premises mutually exclusive equals muddy the waters

Obscurantism is the totalitarians tool.

What does this mean. It means whatever you think. It means nothing.

It distracts from the main story, prisoner abuse. I can tell you than manipulation of powerful symbols is a well known and tried and true prisoner manipulation technique.

The chances that Koran descecration stories are false are zero.

[HeeBGBz]

81. Have you seen this photo

It was in with the same bunch.

http://www.grobania.com/misc/4real

[lala_rawraw]

84. i cannot get link to work

[HeeBGBz]

85. The link thingie is not working right

http://www.grobania.com/misc/4real

Usually I just post the addy and the image shows up. It wouldn't let me.

[bpilgrim]

89. here is what is on the OTHER SIDE of the sign --------------> IMAGE

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[bleever]

83. Kick.

[Disturbed]

87. "Newsweek should be banned "

I smell a set up. Pewww.

[bpilgrim]

90. they are PISSED at Newsweek for capitulating instead of INVESTIGATING

http://news.globalfreepress.com

peace

[HeeBGBz]

91. Here is yet another one

http://www.grobania.com/misc/nuther1

[lala_rawraw]

93. IMPORTANT: WTF is this???

The guy from my above post...the IP owner, I ran his name:

got this: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.email/browse_thread/thread/897db865eae2a65e/a83e85ca0a848c5a?q=%22321+267-0266%22&rnum=1&hl=en#a83e85ca0a848c5a

then ran his addy and got this:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:IaJ5k-gu3DoJ:www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/lieberman_sub_001.xls++2350+Bal+Harbour+Ter+&hl=en

WTF does this mean?

[Bluebear]

99. It's a FEC government address

[lala_rawraw]

101. okay, but why did i get that when searching for

him? i am hardly a techie, so help?

[Bluebear]

103. I'm no techie either, sorry to say...

but I know others here are. Just have to find em to explain!

[HeeBGBz]

120. What is the second link?

It looks like contributions to Lieberman?

Look what I got when I dropped a bit off the addy.

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/

[drm604]

147. lala,

Your first link looks like you searched on a phone number rather than a name. What were you looking for and what's the source of that number?

Your second link looks like a list of contributors to Lieberman. It looks like a result from a search on the address "2350 Bal Harbour Ter" which you apparently got from your first link. However I don't think that page is relevant to what you're researching. If you search that page for "Bar Harbour" you'll find 2 addresses in Bal Harbour, FL. But it appears to be a municipality rather than a street name, it doesn't end in Ter, and the street addresses don't match what you're searching for. I think that page is a coincedental match that is irrelevant to what you're looking for. Of course, I could be misunderstanding what you're doing with your searches.

[Bluebear]

92. Funny thing, now they are not displaying the "Newsweek must be banned" one

[bpilgrim]

94. wouldn't you be pissed that Newsweek caved-in to the Bush Crime Family?

instead of following up on this story with INTERVIEWS?

i know i am

peace

[lala_rawraw]

95. I cannot see anything n/t

[Bluebear]

98. I'm seeing it here llrr...

It's the main picture accompanying the Yahoo article. They took down the "must be banned" one and now show only one man shouting into a microphone with the other sign behind him.

[lala_rawraw]

100. can you email to me?

I am forwarding everything to source at Newsweek.

[Bluebear]

102. Can you see me now? Good! :)

[lala_rawraw]

105. Yep, thanks blue... you are always so handy:D

[bpilgrim]

104. excuse me

why r u sending this to NW?

peace

[lala_rawraw]

106. Not to NW, but to reporter am friends with...

To help figure out this set up...why do you ask?

[bpilgrim]

107. you think this picture proves it was a set up? why?

also there have been other reports of desecration of the Quran

Repeatedly desecrating the Quran in the presence of Plaintiff Arkan M.
Ali and other detainees to demean and degrade them, including having a
military dog pick up the Quran in its mouth

...

Desecrating the Quran in the presence of Plaintiff Sabbar and other
detainees to demean and degrade then, including throwing the book to the
floor and stepping on it.

source...
http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=17573

so why do you think THIS ONE was a set up and not the bush crime family simply trying to scapegoat someone for THEIR problems, as usual, after the shit hit the fan?

peace

[lala_rawraw]

108. I cannot possibly tell you exactly what this is...

But I can tell you that given my knowledge of the torture info thus far and my knowledge of how this article was written (as we all know by now, not denied-confirmation... sometimes), I can only speculate that this was a set up (my gut, but still gathering much info). In any case, I am sending things I am finding both here and via my own digging to a journalist I know at NW and let him put the pieces together.

Not sure why you are seemingly angry at me over the torture information, as I am the one defending its validity and screaming bloody hound dogs for this shameless distraction and smear.

[bpilgrim]

113. what do you think about them being angry at Newsweek capitulating

i see that as a valid interpretation until i see something from the source it is just speculation but that was my initial reaction.

i certainly think it is a real possibility that this was a set-up but i don't see the connection with this picture since other logical interpretations are possible since this MSG is coming from Muslims.

and i am sorry to give you the impression i am 'angry' at you i am certainly not. i am just point out that this story is most likely TRUE and that NW has probably upset folks for backing down, i know it has upset me... but i am not upset with you, why would i be?

i am just trying to discuss this important topic with the DU players.

:hi:

peace

[Frederik]

155. General Myers saying the demonstrations/"riots"

were not linked to the Newsweek story or the Koran desecration is certainly curious. Maybe he didn't get the memo?

[lala_rawraw]

109. hmmm... in reading this, i am getting a sense

That you have some issue with me???

[bpilgrim]

110. what ever gave you that idea?

i certainly didn't mean to give THAT impression though i know how communication can be on line.

please don't take it personal, i am simply curious and i see another interpretation of that sign, as i posted numerous times with no replies so i thought i ask you directly.

peace

[lala_rawraw]

112. The sign has issues that make it

Not credible given the context. Many of those have been mentioned here. The sign is not credible and if the sign is not credible, why are news sources using it as the photo for the story? Where and how did they get this? So the sign is a clear problem because it is not credible, but it is being used by news sources for some reason.

That is what I am discussing with friend. Why, how, where, etc.

[bpilgrim]

114. you don't think Muslims would be ANGRY with NW for backing down

from their responsibility?

i haven't read the whole thread but i haven't seen anything not credible with the sign. can you elaborate or paste a link.

thanks in advance :toast:

peace

[HeeBGBz]

118. The signs look phoney as hell

I don't buy it myself. All the various images of the people with signs look too staged. The print is too precise and tidy.

Reminds me of "Assad the American" or whoever that was with the taped message a few months back.

[bpilgrim]

128. the signs look HANDMADE to me, the chars are different, look at the E

each one is different.

[Bluebear]

119. The pictures came out BEFORE the retraction

Read the original post. It looks like the protestors are angry with Newsweek for publishing the allegations to begin with; but as the OP suggested, wouldn't they be happy that Newsweek revealed the disrespect towards their holy book?

[bpilgrim]

129. but NOT before they started BACK-TRACKING

Muslims skeptical over Newsweek back-track on Koran

16 May 2005 10:12:49 GMT
Source: Reuters
more

like i said it looks like they are angry at NW capitulating to me.

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[lala_rawraw]

124. Well read the thread... then responde n/t

[bpilgrim]

130. i did and the signs look handmade with brush strokes or marker

look at the chars they are different i.e. the E

peace

[ariellyn]

121. Those signs look Photoshopped. n/t

[HeeBGBz]

122. More for your collection

The bottom one seems to be cropped to instill anxiety in the masses. "America Watch Out!" Oogeddy Boogeddy.

These reek of manufactured propaganda.

[Frederik]

154. I agree that this looks very suspect

Also, General Myers said the original demonstrations/"riots" were not linked to the Koran desecration story and the people who were killed appear to have been shot by the police, at least most of them.

[Brotherjohn]

125. Okay. A follow-up dealing with an above possible alternative explanation.

bpilgrim above asks the question: "what do you think about them being angry at Newsweek capitulating"? (to the White House).

I admit that this is a possibility. It is at least a reason for the protestors being upset at Newsweek. But it still doesn't seem logical.

One important aspect of this possibility is the timeline: DID the pictures come out before the retraction? Well, yes and no.

Although the first Newsweek story admitting some fault does not list the date (that I could find) on the page, this Google search sets it as May 14th, 2005 (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=How+a+fire+broke+out&btnG=Search+News)(see "How a Fire Broke Out" from the upcoming May 23 issue).
At least one story showing the pictures saying "Newsweek deserves to be banned" says the pictures were taken "during a protest against US magazine Newsweek, in Mumbai, May 16, 2005" (http://story.news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/051605newsweekquran/im:/050517/photos_wl_afp/050517125756_r2zh16hi_photo0?sp=-1&lsp=6000)(see slideshow).

The actual retraction came too late to have affected the protest (yesterday afternoon here, which was probably already May 17th in India). Still, the first story on May 14th leaves plenty of time for protestors to get angry and stage a protest against Newsweek if they were so inclined.

Nevertheless, the original disconnect remains: WHY would they protest a story in a publication which they believe to be true, that implicates their "enemy" (Bush), and simultaneously protest the publication that implicated him? Backtracking by Newsweek aside, the evidence that they believe the story to be true is sitting right there next to the "Newsweek deserves to be banned" sign. It says right there that "Bush should apologise for desecration of the Quran".

They clearly believe the Newsweek story to be true. I find it hard to believe they would be as equally upset at Newsweek as they are at Bush (or even moreso, to the point where the protest would be defined as one "against US magazine Newsweek").

Are liberals and Bush critics here in the blogosphere protesting Newsweek, or are we protesting what we see as heavy-handed Bush tactics in the war on terror, and intimidation of the media? We may be a little upset at Newsweek for giving in so easily, but the target of our ire is clearly the Bush administration.

Yet are we to believe that these protestors are as incensed (if nor moreso) at issues of jounalistic integrity and political intimidation here in the U.S. as they are with desecration of their holiest book? Desecration which allegedly occurred as part and parcel of the torture of their brothers in the name of a worldwide war on terror, a war which many of them see as a war on Islam?

An analogy:
Let's say, for arguments sake, that Russia invades the United States and occupies it (I know it's not likely, but again, for argument's sake... like the movie "Red Dawn"). Pravda then publishes a story describing the torture and humiliation of American P.O.W.s in their camp in Siberia, up to and including using pages from the Bible as toilet paper. American expatriate protestors would be up in arms, protesting the Russian government, NOT Pravda.

Taking the above possibility into account, let's say the Kremlin leans heavily on Pravda and gets them to backtrack on part of their story. Would American protestors then hold protests aimed equally at the Kremlin AND at Pravda (if not aimed MORE strongly at Pravda)? I doubt it.

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem that "Newsweek deserves to be banned (for abandoning its jounalistic principles)" would invoke quite the same fire that "Bush should apologise for desecration of the Quran" would.

[sabra]

126. I think you are right on!

This is a set up!

[bpilgrim]

132. if you believe something to be TRUE and then the ORG backtracks u would be

PISSED because now they are saying it is all in your HEADS after everything that happened, deaths, injuries, now you are being painted as a ignorant extremist fools.

i know i am PISSED with our media and it's lies and many on this board are pissed with Newsweek capitulating.


http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[geckosfeet]

127. bushco rep put those signs in their hands.

This whole Newsweek thing smells like media manipulation. They set up Rather and now Newsweek.

The press better wise up that bushco and its cronies are out to discredit them.

Do your research, make sure you have something on your "unarmed sources" if you use them.

[starroute]

131. Raza Academy seems to protest at the drop of a hat

Here's a story from 2002 which seems very similar to the current one:

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1922/stories/20021108004508700.htm

WHO would imagine that a hysterical statement made by an evangelist in the United States would lead to a round of riots, arson and killing in India, so far away. Welcome to the globalisation of fundamentalism.

When an insulting and preposterous remark by the right-wing American baptist Rev. Jerry Falwell against the Prophet Mohammed was reported in the local press, riots broke out at Solapur in Maharashtra and Modasa in Gujarat. In an interview on the CBS channel's `60 Minutes' programme, Falwell had said that the Prophet was a "terrorist''. This made front-page headlines in Gujarat Samachar, the most widely read newspaper in Gujarat, drawing attention to the wild charge and provoking strong reactions to it. Later, Falwell apologised for his irresponsible statement, and Gujarat Samachar seemed to regret having highlighted the story in the first place as it had done.

<snip>

A Muslim group called the Raza Academy called for a bandh by Muslim businesses to protest against Falwell's remark. No other Muslim organisation supported the bandh. In fact, most of them spoke out against it.

Nevertheless, riots broke out in Solapur on October 11 when a rally turned violent after some youth insisted that all shopkeepers down their shutters. One of the shops apparently belonged to a Shiv Sainik. The police fired into the crowd, killing five persons. Another four persons were killed in the violence. Around 170 people were injured and 1,000 were arrested during two days of violence. However, trouble had been brewing in Solapur even before Falwell's statement. Tension had flared up when some Hindu youth teased a young Muslim woman. The bandh gave trouble-makers an excuse to spread havoc.

On edit: From a little further down the page, "The police said that the Raza Academy is a fringe group whose leaders have questionable records."

[Brotherjohn]

135. Read what Hamid Karzai says about "outside elements".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3667679&mesg_id=3667679

I suppose it's possible they could have had a little encouragement.

[starroute]

136. Anti-war demonstration led by Raza in 2003 with similar signs

I don't want to post the picture directly, but look at the sign in the photo saying: America "Mother of Terrorism." The writing looks essentially identical to the current ones.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/News/2003-03/07/article07.shtml

NEW DELHI, March 7 (IslamOnline.net) - During the last two days, Muslims of Mumbai and Delhi came out forcefully against the U.S. plans to attack Iraq. On Friday, March 7, a mammoth demonstration came out the historical Jama Masjid in Delhi while another similar demonstration was held in Mumbai where prayers were held for the Muslims of Iraq and raised slogans against the new Crusade.

On Thursday, Mumbai witnessed a unique demonstration: a protest was held in Azad Maidan, the city's largest square for public meetings. Muslim organizations, led by Raza Academy, called for this protest against the U.S. plans to attack Iraq.

<snip>

Raza Academy secretary Saeed Noori appealed to Muslims to let the Crusader and Zionist forces know that Muslims will not allow their gangster policies.

<snip>

Raza Academy said in a statement, "the sheer arrogance of the U.S. and its total disregard of the mechanisms of the international community, particularly the United Nations, and its unilateral threat to (invade) Iraq and in fact to the entire region is unprecedented since the totalitarian regimes of Hitler and his allies."

[Brotherjohn]

133. Followup II: It is racist to say that b/c these signs look professional...

... they could not have been produced by the Indian Muslims shown carrying them.

I tried to make it clear in my original post that this is NOT what I was implying. Yet I have read several posts here that seem to have taken my post to mean that these signs could NOT have been produced by the same people carrying them.

Newsflash: India is an advanced, technological country. They HAVE printers there (and doctors, and engineers, and scientists, etc. etc. etc.). The Raza Academy easily could have signs printed, yes, just like we do over here.

What caught my eye was not the mere fact that they appeared printed (they may not be), but the general "PR" appearance of them, and the specific messages, and the conflict between those messages. The only group I can imagine being so upset at Newsweek as to stage a protest would be certain elements in our own country (it is in fact what the White House did all day yesterday).

But please DO NOT mis-interpret my post as implying that the Indian people are incapable of using printing presses, or any other such racist claptrap. They are an ancient, traditional, elegant culture which is making great leaps to embrace the future as well (some would say beating us at our own game).

[bpilgrim]

137. they are NOT printed, they are hand made

look at the E for example EACH ONE is DIFFERENT.

BTW: why do you not respond to me DIRECTLY?

peace

[Brotherjohn]

142. Hey, I DID respond to you... but to everyone as well. I was trying to...

... bring up your point to the whole thread. Since I felt it was a valid alternative explanation, I wanted to post it as a "followup" to my original post. I meant to give it more validity than putting it as a response in a long side thread that seemed to have turned into a tit-for-tat between you and another poster.

I think your idea is a valid one I hadn't thought of. However, I still don't think it's very likely. I just find it very hard to believe that the protestors would be so incensed at Newsweek. As I said above, I just don't think Newsweek backtracking on a story they belieived would inspire nearly the same kind of fire as America desecrating the Quran and torturing and mistreating their brothers-in-arms. I think the messages even directly conflict in the ways I have explained above.

Could they see it as a sort of betrayal? Yes. Would this betrayal inspire them to riot and give up their lives? I doubt it.

As for the signs being printed or hand-written, as I also post above, it's not so much the way they were printed, it's the "P.R." taste they seem to give me, and the conflicting messages. I, too, see that the letters are not all the same (the "E's", for instance), although I'd guess there is software that can easily do this.

So I see your point as a valid possible alternative. It just doesn't seem to wash for me... I can't see them being so mad at the source.

[bpilgrim]

144. they were rioting BEFORE the capitulation

and then to have them capitulate would certainly make them upset, it has me, as well.

it's not just the differences it is the brush stroke quality of the chars.

anyways, thats my take on it and thank you for responding :hi:

peace

[getmeouttahere]

143. Despite the "E's" looking different...

I still think the signs look printed. I don't think we should assume that because each letter isn't uniform, that it can't be printed in that manner.

[bpilgrim]

146. not just the irregular chars & spacing, it is the brush strokes, as well

anyways, thats just my take.

peace

[VOX]

149. Silkscreen process would pick up brush strokes, and have a painted look...

Regardless, the signs do have a kind of "by the numbers" look about them, whether hand-done or not.

But who knows? :shrug:

[Julius Civitatus]

134. I thought the same thing when I read the article yesterday

Psy-ops, maybe?

:tinfoilhat:

[Sequoia]

141. I said, "That's wasn't done by the protestors"

yesterday. I thought the sign was way too slick, just like when the statue of Saddam was pulled off and the guys were kicking his head down the street, WEARING NEW T-SHIRTS WITH DARE ON THEM. Yes, those angry Iranians went into their closet and said, "Bless Allah, I'm going to wear my brand spanking new anti-drug t-shirt those kind Americans gave me. Think I"ll go kick some heads around, what fun!"

Ah, propaganda.

[progressivebydesign]

151. I was wondering why those look professionally printed...

.. could they be that obvious?