I would like to start an addiction/recovery group on DU

[KitchenWitch]

Please reply here if there is any interest! (Skinner thinks it would be a good idea!)

[NoSheep]

1. dupe

[bobthedrummer]

2. Are we talking about AODA?

Or other addictions?

[KitchenWitch]

4. AODA??? whazzat?

I am thinking an all encompassing addiction group.

[bobthedrummer]

6. Alcohol and Other Drug Addiction/AODA

Good luck!

[NoSheep]

3. I think it's a great idea as well. Smokers, drinkers, people addicted

to people. When someone's ready to talk about their issue, a group like that would be invaluable. :smoke: :beer: :grouphug: I'm serious!

[Longgrain]

5. I responded to your thread last night,

I have relatives who have been through Alcohol rehab, and could probably take a good long look at some of my own habits myself.

Consider me a supporter. :thumbsup:

[KitchenWitch]

8. Cool

I just wanted to post an official thread, since Skinner gave the OK.

[medeak]

7. great idea!

and can understand Skinner's support.. ;-)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. How about for people who are addicted to....

their ~cough~ computers ~cough~?

[KitchenWitch]

10. LOL

cough cough!

[entanglement]

27. Oh, a couple of 1000 post flame-wars in Lounge/GD would easily cure them

:evilgrin:

[48pan]

11. I'm addicted to...

Pulled pork sandwiches. Help me! I wonder if the 12 step program includes ribs? Hmm...

[Steven_S]

12. Good idea...

I may have some experience in this area. :)

[jeanarrett]

13. I'm interested. . . but for those who are truly

addicted to alcohol or drugs, it's not that funny. I think it should be kinda specific. Not co-dependency or pulled pork sandwiches. Or maybe a general addiction forum with offshoots for the other things. It would get kind of messy and confusing if it were all lumped together.

[Longgrain]

14. Maybe you should ask the OP to have this moved this to GD

where it's bound to get some more serious answers.

[jeanarrett]

17. Good idea! n/t

[ralps]

15. I would be interested in joining you all

:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[KitchenWitch]

16. I have requested that this be moved to GD

Good suggestion Long Grain.

And I agree, addiction is a serious issue, whether it be gambling, drinking, emotional outbursts etc.

[JimmyJazz]

18. I'm glad skinner is on board.

He's a good man.

[KitchenWitch]

19. Anyone who is interested in participating in this group

Please PM me.
I need ideas for the group's mission statement.

[Taxloss]

20. I would support this.

Curiously, I had a similar idea but didn;t think to act on it.

However, I think it needs careful consideration and careful/thorough modding. I would hate to see it cluttered by well-meaning but thoughtless people posting "I'M ADDICTED TO CHOCOLATE/DU/AMERICAN IDOL!" or whatever. Plus, this stuff is very personal, and we must be aware of the potential for it to be exploited off-site.

[KitchenWitch]

21. I agree about having it well modded

Any super sensitive issues could be taken offline via PM or the various chat proggies, to protect from the exploitation risk.

[Just Me]

39. I believe it's success may be poor precisely due to your points.

You know as well as I that such a forum would be a great big target.

Unfortunately, I sincerely believe that this is not the place for such a support group because it's simply too open.

Any support group would be better served in a highly protected environment.

[KitchenWitch]

22. BTW, I requested for this to be put in GD, not GDP

I hope the admins/mods will fix this, since it is not necessarily a political issue!

[Longgrain]

23. Alert the Mods,

I agree this is not a political thing...

It belongs in GD.

[KitchenWitch]

24. I did alert the mods

LOL

[Longgrain]

25. Kick!

Since this finally found it's way to the proper forum.

[KitchenWitch]

26. Keep this kicked please!

[Longgrain]

33. All right then...

:kick:

[KitchenWitch]

28. kick

[Longgrain]

29. Here's a few ideas for wording of your mission statement...

You might want to point out that...

"This is a Support group for people dealing with addictions that interfere with day to day living--family, jobs, and so on--such as alcohol, drugs, medication, gambling, and so forth..."

I don't think smoking should be included because, while it's addictive, it usually doesn't cause the alterations of personally, or danger to other relationships that certain other addictions do. While it is unhealthy, many smokers don't hurt others that much by their habit.

Am I making sense?

[RetroLounge]

42. There is already a Smoking Cessation Group

FYI

RL

[Hawkeye-X]

30. I'm all for it.

:)

[Mrs_Beastman]

31. great idea

need a place to talk and hear other's stories

[Longgrain]

32. It looks like you have your ten (serious) people...

Now you just need the mission statement.

[Steven_S]

34. Kick for the night crew...

Mission Statement:

For people who might be interested in reading or sharing in an addiction/recovery group.


(saves on bandwidth)

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. I'm a compulsive overeater and food addict and would like to join

[Bouncy Ball]

36. Just a caveat: everyone needs to be SUPER careful

about posting ANY identifying information and this includes if you post in the addiction DU group and the Lounge--if you post identifying information in the lounge then that still counts.

There are people who would love nothing more than to trash some DUers on the basis of recovering from/struggling with addiction. Yeah, that would be a super nasty thing to do, but I put nothing past reichwing bush asskissers.

So just be careful.

[BeHereNow]

37. Not to mention the Bush plan for MANDATORY

mental health screening.
Personally, I am done with cults, such as 12 stepping.
No offense intended- but I can not support anything remotely
connected to FranK Buchannon and the Oxford group.
"Group think" extremism is how we got to where we are today as a
country...
BHN

[Bouncy Ball]

38. I didn't mean my post to be an intro to bashing 12 step groups.

Tons of people have recovered from addictions of all kinds using the 12 steps. Hell, if you've read them you can see there is nothing emotionally unhealthy about them, in fact they are all ABOUT standing up, taking responsibility, making amends to those you have harmed (including yourself), looking at your OWN culpability in your problems and not blaming other people and things, etc etc.

If you don't like them, fine, but to call 12 step groups "group think" tells me you haven't researched group think very well:

Illusion of Invulnerability: Members ignore obvious danger, take extreme risk, and are overly optimistic.

(Nope, you won't find that in any 12 step group. In fact, they are quick to POINT OUT danger to others in the group, because of their reliance on honesty.)

Collective Rationalization: Members discredit and explain away warning contrary to group thinking.

(Um, that directly violates the 12 steps. No rationalizations or explaning away things, you have to FACE things.)

Illusion of Morality: Members believe their decisions are morally correct, ignoring the ethical consequences of their decisions.

(I can't imagine what ethical consequences there would be to owning up to your own mistakes and making amends to others. In fact, one step says you must make amends, UNLESS TO DO SO WOULD CAUSE HARM.)

Excessive Stereotyping:The group constructs negative sterotypes of rivals outside the group.

(What rivals? 12 Step groups don't really have any parallel....and bashing other groups is verboten.)

Pressure for Conformity: Members pressure any in the group who express arguments against the group's stereotypes, illusions, or commitments, viewing such opposition as disloyalty.

(People are free to feel however they wish about the 12 steps. I knew a guy who went to NA meetings for years and talked about how he didn't want to do the steps. They still listened to him, hugged him, and welcomed him.)

Self-Censorship: Members withhold their dissenting views and counter-arguments.

(Nope. Honesty is the word of the day, every day.)

Illusion of Unanimity: Members perceive falsely that everyone agrees with the group's decision; silence is seen as consent.

(If you have something to say you are always free to say it, when it's your turn, in a 12 step meeting. Period.)

Mindguards: Some members appoint themselves to the role of protecting the group from adverse information that might threaten group complacency.

(I don't even see how this would apply to a 12 step group.)

[Name removed]

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[RetroLounge]

43. Here is the main reason I am not interested

The group isn't even formed yet, and already one portion of potential parties to the group have been insulted and the one thing that saved my life has been called a cult based on a 70 year old connection to a defunct group.

"No offense intended- but..." is a passive agressive bullshit way of making attacks. Well, offense taken...

Good luck with your group...

RL

[Name removed]

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[Bouncy Ball]

53. Don't you also believe that the trails of condensation in the sky

from jets are harmful chemicals and once caused something to lodge in your jaw or something?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[KitchenWitch]

47. RL - it saved my life too!

12 step groups that is. I do know there are other methods, and am open to hearing about them as well, but the 12 steps are what I base my recovery upon.

I am sorry others feel the need to insult a program that has had over 50 years of success.

[BeHereNow]

48. Do you know of which you speak? Statistic wise?

BHN

[KitchenWitch]

50. You know what

I am not here to get into a pissing contest with you. It has been successful for me, for members of my family, for many of my friends.

My intent was to offer a group to support those in the DU community that are dealing with various addictions, not to get into "my brand of recovery is better than your brand of recovery" pissing wars.

If you do not want to participate, fine, but do not shit on something that has worked for myself, and I am certain at least several other DUers who have expressed interest in this group.

[Name removed]

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[KitchenWitch]

80. FYI - I do not believe in sponsorship

it is a fake authority relationship which I never had the time nor the patience for.

I have been sober over 20 years, and have several family members and friends who have also been sober between 15 and 30 years (continuously) using the 12 steps.

You have shown that you are EQUALLY judgemental against the 12 steps...again, if you do not wish to participate in the group, please leave this thread alone.

[Name removed]

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[KitchenWitch]

87. Actually you have free will

You can leave this thread alone, if you CHOOSE to.

[RetroLounge]

59. See, recovery is about getting better.

Not needing to be right about Statistics.

I know your type well. Sad...

RL

[KitchenWitch]

61. ^5 to RL

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

64. LOL

:rofl:

:hug:

RL

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[KitchenWitch]

81. If your idea of being "well" includes bashing other's methods for getting

well, then let me stay sick thank you very much.

The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement....you might want to practice some of the tolerance you seemed to seek from this thread.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[KitchenWitch]

86. You know what

I am hip to the SCIENCE thing, and have always recommended to people in meetings who were having problems with depression, etc. that they seek medical attention. I am not one of those AA people who attempt to practice medicine from the podium. Do NOT lump me in with them. I also happen to be pagan, so my choice in spirituality does not always jive with a lot of the JudeoChristian stuff that is prevalent in meetings.

However, I resent the fact that because 12 steps did not work for you, for whatever reason, you feel the need to proseletyze to the rest of us about it. I am all about folks finding their own path to recovery, whatever that is. If it is church, fine, if it is science, fine, if it is twiddling your thumbs, fine, just as long as you find recovery.

If you do not want to participate in the group, that is up to you, but know that there are others that do, and that does not make them any less enlightened than you are.

[BeHereNow]

90. And just WHAT is it that you recommend?

What exactly are you "hip to?"
Regarding the science/medical research in addiction?
Curious to know...
BHN

[KitchenWitch]

95. I need to apologize for the things I said in the above thread

BHN, it is very clear to me that the 12 step programs are a source of a lot of pain for you. I am sorry about that. However, I am not going to apologize for getting my recovery there. I AM open minded enough to realize that not everyone can recover using the 12 steps. That is why I worded the mission statement to be inclusive of other methods.

I would also like to say that this thread (and the new group) will not be a forum for bashing others' paths to recovery, as bashing others' experiences is self-defeating and unproductive. I believe we ALL can learn from each other.

I am truly sorry for adding to your pain, that was not the intent. Please accept my apology.

[SoCalDem]

89. and remember that what goes on the web..STAYS on the web..

imagine someone searching for, and finding things about you that you might not want the world knowing about..

There's nothing wrong with sharing and seeking help from kindred spirits..just remember that there are people "out here" in cyberville who have mischief and malice in their hearts:(

[jeanarrett]

94. What if we were able to establish a different user name

for that particular forum? It would make it more anonymous, as it should be.

[mourningdove92]

40. I'm in!

With 11 years sobriety, maybe I can be of help to someone.

And, btw, I would really approve of nicotine addiction being part of this forum. I will participate either way, but I haven't found a way to kick the cigs yet, and maybe I could get a boost.

[mourningdove92]

41. Gee, my star is gone. Guess I had better re-donate!

[RetroLounge]

60. There is a smoking cessation group already

Good people in there...

RL

[KitchenWitch]

44. Mission Statement draft

This group is intended to be a supportive resource for people recovering from addictions (drugs, alcohol, overeading, gambling, etc) which negatively affect all areas of their lives. Although this group is not intended to be a 12 step group, members can feel free to discuss the 12 steps, and any other methods for finding abstinence from their addictions. This group is not intended to substitute for real life support groups, etc. but is intended to be an online resource here at DU for such members that find it useful.

[ralps]

56. Your statement looks good to me. Although you might consider adding

something about including Al-Anon people (in other words, relatives spouses etc. of people with addictions.) :hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[KitchenWitch]

62. Very good idea

We can tweak the mission statement when the group is formed. I want to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

57. Just a thought

You may want to add something that says no bashing another persons chosen path to recovery. Just a thought after seeing some of the post above. If not, it could turn into a flame fest from hell. Not what a person in recovery needs, IMO.

[KitchenWitch]

58. Good idea

I submitted the first draft to Skinner. We can tweak it when the group is officially formed.

[Orangepeel]

65. Just a suggestion...

but you might want to add an explicit warning about keeping private information private in the mission statement. Some people forget when they get comfortable.

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. Huzzah! There's no longer a need.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/05/17/kudzu.drinking.ap/index.html ;-)

[KitchenWitch]

49. Thanks for playing

but this is a serious discussion. Not to be snarky, but I think your post was in poor taste.

[Longgrain]

54. You've done good work KitchenWitch.

I suggest you make a final draft of you mission statement now, and bring it to Skinner. (be sure to include a link to this thread), and let those that have bugged you, bother you no further.

You have all you need to get the group started.

I have experience with DU groups. They are slower moving, but far more serious, and less backbiting than other forums.

Good Luck!

[Fire Walk With Me]

63. No disrespect intended, there are addicts in my family

and a "miracle cure" is always welcome, even if it's from the ubiquitous Kudzu! Especially, even.

[KitchenWitch]

66. OK, no offense taken then

I just had my hackles up, because, frankly, I do not know you, and had no idea whether you meant it as a joke or were serious.

A lot of people with addictions seek miracle cures, rather than facing their addictions head on, I guess it is a hallmark of addiction.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

67. "Science may one day accomplish this,

but it hasn't done so yet."

[KitchenWitch]

68. Indeed

Not to threadjack my own thread but how is Oscar doing?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

70. He's sober but still very odd

one day at a time.

[Fire Walk With Me]

69. "Here dear, Kudzu lotion. It cures addiction."

It would be so bizarre that it HAS to be true. "All this time..."

[Fire Walk With Me]

71. Cool, I sure hope that you didn't think that I was making fun of addicts

How broken, how tiny, how completely unable to exist would someone have to be, to consider making fun of addicts? Wow.

My best to you and yours and I hope that everyone's okay, who is facing such a destructive disease.

[KitchenWitch]

72. at first I was not sure

but since you clarified yourself, I know you were not making fun of addicts and addiction.

Thanks for the clarification.

[noel711]

51. Does this request include...

spouses of addicts? Can we play too?

[KitchenWitch]

52. I do not see why not

Unless others have a issue with this, I personally do not have an issue! :D

[Lone_Star_Dem]

73. I hope it ends up being OK with everyone

We family and loved ones of addicts are people, too. :pals:

[Skittles]

78. constantly battling nicotine here

I was lucky to escape the alcoholic gene which has killed a lot of my family - including a brother. My demon will always be nicotine.

[Name removed]

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[KitchenWitch]

83. Nicotine is a bear to kick

I gave up smoking about 15 years ago, it was tough.

[ultraist]

88. Yes, it's extremely difficult to stop smoking

It took me numerous tries. I finally tried nicorette gum and it worked. It didn't take away all of the cravings, but took the edge off. I found, by waiting out the cravings, the cravings became less frequent and further apart. I would drink a glass of water and distract myself. I still drink tons of water!

The first month was a bear though. I slept 12 hours the first few days, had night sweats, nightmares and major withdrawals but it was more than worth it.

If you can forgo one smoke, you can quit. It's just a matter of walking through each craving until the cravings subside. Each person has to come up with a way to ride out the cravings. I had a friend who would do jumping jacks each time she got a craving. I think the endorphin kick helped. I have read that exercise is a good replacement for the nicotine kick.

[Skittles]

91. the first time I tried I stopped for two and a half years

but then a series of events pushed me over the edge - a job layoff, the reselection of that incompetent bastard in the White House, the death of a beloved brother. I'm back on the wagon but it seems so much tougher this time around.

[KitchenWitch]

92. Not to be all rah rah but

try and stay with it. I know that my tolerance for BS is totally out the door, which can make it harder to put the energy into my recovery (including the smoking thing). It is important to have an outlet to blow off steam once in awhile. :D

And thank you for not kicking my ass :silly:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

93. I'm sorry, BeHereNow.

I don't want to start anything up again, but I want to apologize to you for what I said in this thread yesterday. I don't think you're ever going to get a fair hearing when you are as aggressive as you were in this thread, but I believe that you are truly hurting because of your experiences and I am sorry for what I said. I hope you find healing and peace of mind, by whatever means possible.

-Richard

[BeHereNow]

96. Thank you-

I know there are GOOD people following the
twelve steps- there are also people as sick as the day
they walked through "the doors."
My problem with that is due to the rigid and often misinformed
"direction" given those people, they remain untreated or
misdiagnosed, and that is dangerous in any organization.
There are medical conditions, most frequently in women,
that result from years of substance abuse that are
completely reversable with NATURAL compounds-
had I not found out about them I would most likely
be dead- the recovery group I belonged to ridiculed me
for even bringing it up.
Not one of them has called to see if
I am dead or alive since I left nearly five years ago.
I am alive, no thanks to them, and doing very well.
I am still "of service" to children with special needs,
prison inmates, and incarcerated youth.
I apologize too for posting such strong adversarial
messages, but I have never felt so betrayed in my life
as I did in that period of my life.
BHN

[A-Schwarzenegger]

97. Thanks, BHN.

There are many paths, I'm glad you've found one,
and it's a shame you were treated so badly. Peace.

[BeHereNow]

99. So true- many paths and all-

I admit that I was hurt, but I think the final straw
was seeing others, vunerable newcomers hurt as well.
I personally believe that God puts me exactly where I
need to be at exactly the time I need to be there-
But talk about making it simple-
For me, everything I need to know is in my bible.
THAT is my roadmap for living.
BHN

[KitchenWitch]

98. I am glad you found something that helps you

Please know that not everyone in 12 step programs are as closed minded as the folks you ran across. So sorry your experience was so negative. May the God of your understanding continue to give you peace.

[BeHereNow]

100. Thanks, and He does.

I know there are WONDERFUL people on the
twelve step path- BUT the people who do great damage
are the ones I could no longer be around.
Injustice is my Achilles heel.
And I witnessed plenty.
Love to you both, as you are the people I miss in the rooms-
BHN