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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 02:35 PM
Original message
Corporate personhood
Ok... I've seen a lot of people rail aginst "corporate personhood". I've seen phrases like eliminate corporations, etc. Can someone explain to me:

1) How you raise 800million dollars for a an auto plant w/o corporations?

2) How you get people to enter risky areas of business?

I can gauruntee you that if every owner of stock has to stand for joint & several liability for general motors, they could never have existed. Since this is the definition of partnership, what are you advocating?

All of that being said, I don't have a problem with regulating corporations in a heavier manner, or requiring them to live up to certain expected societal norms -- but we do this today. We require minimum wages, that they not hire illegals, that they provide safe environments to work in (OSHA), etc. What does the proposal to eliminate "corporate personhood" actually do?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. A corporation
shouldn't be considered a legal person. It, itself, can not be held strictly responsible for its actions, (cannot be sent to jail, for example) and it's far too easy for the individuals who make up the body of the corporation to evade personal responsiblity for the actions of the corporation.

Also--I dislike the argument that advertisement is the same as "Free Speech." Bombardment with often erroneous or misleading information in the interest of selling products is not the same as an individual person speaking his or her mind and shouldn't be considered to be under the same protection.

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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. i dont think the issue is as you state
Corporations exist to reduce personal liabilities and raise capital. no one denies that this is the engine that moves capitalism.

What people question is the lack of responsibility of corporations that are licensed by the state with the expressed purpose of bringing value to the society.

Corporations should pay taxes because they gain value from public works. They use the court system (in fact, the federal courts are clogged with corporate law suits and account for 70-80% of federal court cases), they gain value from the efforts of public education, from research done at tax-payer expense in universities, from law enforcement to protect property, from various publically admionistered pgrograms that benefit citizen and corporation alike.

"The normal and proper aim of the corporate community is to make money for its managers and for the owners of business all the better if its members also contribute to the general prosperity. However, business acts on the prevailing business philosophy, which claims that corporate self-interest eventually produces the general interest. This comfortable belief rests on misinterpretation of the theory of market rationality proposed by Adam Smith.

"He would have found the market primitivism of the current day unrecognizable. He saw the necessity for public intervention to create or sustain the public interest, and took for granted the existence of a government responsible to the community as a whole, providing the structure within which the economy functions.

"classical political thought says that the purpose of government is to do justice for its citizens. part of this obligation is to foster conditions in which wealth is produced. the obligation is not met by substituting the wealth-producer for the government.

"Business looks after the interests of businessmen and corporation stockholders. Stark and selfish self-interest obviously is not what motivates most American businessmen and -women, but it is the doctrine of the contemporary corporation and of the modern American business school."

"It does not automatically serve the general interest, as any 18th century rationalist would acknowledge - or any 21st century realist."

William Pfaff


http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0126-01.htm

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. First convince me that I would be worse off without General Motors
Edited on Sat May-21-05 02:53 PM by bemildred
and their ilk, then I will consider the question of how one
might arrange for limited liability situations - although it
does seem to me that where the public good is at issue one can
go with regulated and government chartered "for profit" utilities
and the like. The notion that we need GM and fuckwits like Donald
Trump needs some sort of support, though, it is far from obvious
to me.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unequal Protection: the Rise of Corporate Dominance...
...and the Theft of Human Rights

Note to the Moderators: This article is not copyrighted, so permission to reproduce it is unnecessary. See note at end of article confirming this.

I've bolded some sections to answer the OP's question. Abolishing ‘corporate personhood’ is not the same thing as abolishing corporations. I support the former, not the latter. Shareholders will still have to band together to do big business, but big business wouldn't be able to buy our government officials outright.


Unequal Protection may prove to be the most significant book in the history of corporate personhood, a doctrine which dates to 1886. For 116 years, corporate personhood has been scrutinized and criticized, but never seriously threatened. Now Thom Hartmann has discovered a fatal legal flaw in its origin: corporate personhood is doomed.

What is “corporate personhood?” Suppose, to keep Wal-Mart at bay, your county commissioners enact an ordinance prohibiting Wal-Mart from doing business in your county. The subsequent (and immediate) lawsuit would be a slam-dunk for Wal-Mart’s lawyers, because this corporation enjoys—just as you and I do as living, breathing citizens—the Constitutional rights of “due process” and “equal protection.” Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. is a person, not in fact, not in flesh, not in any tangible form, but in law.

To their everlasting glory, this is not what the Founding Fathers intended, as Mr. Hartmann explains in rich and engaging detail. And for 100 years after the Constitution was ratified, various governmental entities led corporations around on leashes, like obedient puppies, canceling their charters promptly if they compromised the public good in any way. The leashes broke in 1886, the puppies got away, and the public good was increasingly compromised—until it was finally displaced altogether.

Today, the First Amendment protects the right of corporations-as-persons to finance political campaigns and to employ lobbyists, who then specify and redeem the incurred obligations. Democracy has been transformed into a crypto-plutocracy, and public policy is no longer crafted to serve the American people at large. It is shaped instead to maintain, protect, enhance or create opportunities for corporate profit.

One recent example took place after Mr. Hartmann’s book was written. Senators Patty Murray from Washington and Ted Stevens from Alaska inserted a last-minute provision in this year’s defense appropriation bill. It directed the Air Force to lease, for ten years, one hundred Boeing 767 airplanes, built and configured as passenger liners, to serve as aerial refueling tankers. Including the costs of removing the seats and installing the tanks, and then reversing the process ten years from now, the program will cost $17 billion. The Air Force never asked for these planes, and they weren’t in President Bush’s budget for the Defense Department. Political contributions from the Boeing company totaled $640,000 in the 2000 election cycle, including $20,230 for Senator Murray and $31,100 for Senator Stevens.

The chairman of the CSX Corporation, Mr. John Snow, has been nominated by President Bush to be the new Secretary of the Treasury. Mr. Snow’s company, another legal person, exercised its Constitutional rights by contributing $5.9 million to various campaigns—three-quarters of it to Republicans—over seven election cycles. It was a wise investment. In 3 of the last 4 years, averaging $250 million in annual profits, CSX paid no federal income taxes at all. Instead, it received $164 million in tax rebates—money paid to the company by the Treasury Department.

No, this is not what the Founding Fathers intended democracy to be. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, as Mr. Hartmann details, were seriously anxious about “moneyed corporations” and their potential interference in public affairs. The Bill of Rights these two men drafted contained the ten Constitutional amendments that survive, and two more that did not: one was to control corporate expansion and dominance. (The other was to prohibit a standing army.)

As the 19th century wore on American corporations entered lawsuit after lawsuit to achieve a strategic objective: corporate personhood. With that, they could break the leashes of social control and regulation. They could sue county commissioners. Or lease their unsold airliners to the Air Force. Or collect millions in tax rebates.

In his spellbinding Chapter 6—“The Deciding Moment”—Mr. Hartmann tells how corporate personhood was achieved.

Orthodoxy has it the Supreme Court decided in 1886, in a case called Santa Clara County v. the Southern Pacific Railroad, that corporations were indeed legal persons. I express that view myself, in a recent book. So do many others. So do many law schools. We are all wrong.

Mr. Hartmann undertook instead a conscientious search. He finally found the contemporary casebook, published in 1886, blew the dust away, and read Santa Clara County in the original, so to speak. Nowhere in the formal, written decision of the Court did he find corporate personhood mentioned. Not a word. The Supreme Court did NOT establish corporate personhood in Santa Clara County.

In the casebook “headnote,” however, Mr. Hartmann read this statement: “The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment…which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” Here, anyway, corporate personhood was “provided”— in the headnote, instead of the formal written decision of the Supreme Court. But that’s not good enough.

What is a “headnote?” It is the summary description of a court decision, written into the casebook by the court reporter. It is similar to an editor’s “abstract” in a scientific journal. Because they are not products of the court itself, however, headnotes carry no legal weight; they can establish no precedent in law. Corporate personhood, Mr. Hartmann discovered, is simply and unequivocally illegitimate.

The court reporter for Santa Clara County was Mr. John Chandler Bancroft Davis, a graduate of Harvard Law School.

Mr. Hartman has in his personal library 12 books by Davis, mostly original editions. They display Davis’s close alliance with the railroad industry, and they support persuasively Mr. Hartmann’s argument that Davis injected the personhood statement deliberately, to achieve by deceit what corporations had so far failed to achieve in litigation.

If Davis knew his headnote was legally sterile, though, we can only speculate about his tactics. Perhaps he thought judges in the future would read his headnote as if it could serve as legal precedent, and would thereafter invoke corporate personhood in rendering court decisions. That would be grossly irregular, and it would place corporate personhood in stupendous legal jeopardy if it ever came to light. But something of that sort must have happened, because corporate personhood over time spread throughout the world of commerce—and politics.

Mr. Hartmann doesn’t fill in this blank, but his daylighting of the irregularity will be the eventual undoing of corporate personhood. Its alleged source in Santa Clara County is a myth, a lie, a fraud. Corporate personhood simply cannot now survive, after Mr. Hartmann’s book, a rigorous and sustained legal attack.

Sustained it will have to be, for years or decades or even longer: corporations will fight the attack bitterly, but we now know corporate personhood has utterly no basis in law.

This article is not copyrighted, so permission to reproduce it is unnecessary. Richard W. Behan’s current book is Plundered Promise: Capitalism, Politics, and the Fate of the Federal Lands (Island Press, 2001). For a description of the book, a synopsis, and further information, go to http://www.rockisland.com/~rwbehan/. Mr. Behan is currently working on a more broadly rendered critique, Derelict Democracy: A Primer On the Corporate Seizure of America’s Agenda. He can be reached by email at rwbehan@rockisland.com. For more on Mr. Hartmann’s book, see http://unequalprotection.com



http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1226-04.htm
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. corporate persons have become too powerful against
the people of this country. While we had a government that would stand with the peoople in opposition to these artificial "people," the system worked fairly well. While we had unions to negotiate for workers against these false "people," the system worked better.

The problem with this is that we no longer have a government that takes our interest to heart, and is fully under the control of these corporate "personages." We are completely at the mercy of these articficially created entities to poison us, make shoddy products that injure or kill us, and keep our wages artificially low while neglecting workplace safety.

Even when the government was offering resistance to the worst of the abuses committed by these "people," it failed to use the death penalty against the worst violators, the withdrawal of their corporate charters. There would be nothing like making all stock holders proportionately liable for a corporation's malfeasance to make that corporation clean up its act quickly and regain its charter.

The whole idea of corporate personhood was written by a clerk to the supreme court. That it's retained any legal standing at all is ludicrous.

The system we have now is tyranny and it is unsustainable. Something has got to change or we are lost.
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