Why I don't think "Downing Street" will have much impact.

[BillZBubb]

First the Republicans will rationalize it. I've already heard them make claims that the war was necessary, so Bush had to do whatever he could to get the people behind him. They also claim, that although the intelligence wasn't as sure as BushCo made it out to be, still most Democratic and Republican politicians believed Saddam Hussein had weapons and was a great threat. They've got plenty of Dem quotes to back that up. The minutes won't change a single mind in this group.

Second, the independents already know Bush stretched the truth to start the war. That he flat out lied won't come as a big shock. They've already accepted that they were manipulated, but for numerous reasons they aren't all that uncomfortable about it. Sad, but true from my conversations. For some reason, the Bush phony image of "leadership" and "integrity" sticks with these people in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Our side already knows Bush is a lying sack of shit. The Downing Street minutes only confirm what we know from other sources.

Bush's poll numbers may suffer a little among independents, but there won't be any groundswell for impeachment or to toss the Republican warmongering liars to the curb. Any belief otherwise is just wishful thinking.

[keithjx]

1. I'm not sure about this

The American public is so fickle about what things they'll seize on that we have to push each and every story that comes up. Hopefully, eventually, one will gain attention.
KJ

[DearAbby]

2. And Watergate was just a bungled burglary...look what happened. nt

[BillZBubb]

8. Democrats controlled both houses of congress in Watergate.

The media was actually doing their job. This time the Repugs control everything, including the media.

This isn't going to be a Watergate. That's wishful thinking.

[immoderate]

3. Largely correct.

You can always safely bet on inertia.

If, however, the "Memo" coincides with other negative events in the war or the economy then it will become a band wagon.

T I M I N G !

--IMM

[acmavm]

4. I think the Downing Street MEETING MINUTES will become a big deal

the minute that this administration enacts the draft. Then I think even the clowns who sit at their keyboards and support Monkey Boy will suddenly develop a conscience, mainly to protect their own precious hides.

Like during Viet Nam, the draft will change a lot of minds. 'Put up or shut up' time has a way of doing that.

[BillZBubb]

9. Perhaps I should have said "by itself"...

You and some other posters are correct that this COMBINED with some other event could snowball. I guess the question for us then is will the "next event" occur in time to do some good?

[Karenina]

17. Hmmm...

:freak:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smartvoter]

6. Whoa. Calm down. He has the right to speak, and it wasn't pro-Bush. nt

[oasis]

7. Hans Blix's search for WMD was just a sham. Bush has to answer questions

about this as the story gains momentum. His credibility will take a giant hit and the families of our armed service personell will re-open the case for going to war.

[BigBearJohn]

10. If we all believed like you, we would stop all our efforts to Impeach

:sarcasm:

1. Oh well, what's the use? Repubs are smarter than us anyway
   
2. Might as well give up now.
   
3. or we could put a half-baked effort into it and then all act surprised when we fail...
   
4. Let's just wait til they destroy everything. Then I can smugly say, "see, I told you."
   

"Whether you think you can, or think you can't -- you're right." Henry Ford

[BillZBubb]

13. Funny, but it doesn't address the points I made.

If you believe Repugs are smarter than us, that's your problem. I certainly don't and there's nothing in my post to suggest otherwise. They do control congress though, and that makes impeachment virtually impossible.

We can press the issue of impeachment for tactical political reasons. That's fine. Just don't expect a strategic win based on the Downing Street minutes. For the reasons I've stated, we're not going to get enough of the public disgusted and angry enough to go after Bush with them alone.

Funny how you could have read your four points from my post.

[Just Me]

11. I disagree. Most Americans find betrayal inexcusable.

Will the Bush base rationalize and all that? Sure. However, Bush's "base" does NOT represent the majority of the American people and there are still elements within that base that will not take kindly to being tricked by their own golden one.

[BillZBubb]

14. We certainly have a fundamental disagreement here.

I would say most Americans find some betrayals inexcusable, others not so much so.

I also really believe that a majority of Americans already know Bush started the war based on bullshit--whether they admit it publicly or not. But many have decided it's not that big a deal.

[Just Me]

16. Yep. I also disagree that "many have decided it's not that big a deal".

Almost everyone is now seeing young men and women returning without limbs or eyes or noses and/or suffering extreme psychological distress and/or economic troubles.

The costs of the war are becoming increasingly clear in spite of the neoCON propaganda machine.

I respect your perspective,...but, mine differs based upon what I hear and see which obviously differs from your own experiences. I am pretty sure that we are both right in some respect; but, it's pretty tough to judge which of our perceptions represents a greater majority of the American people. What can I say.

[linazelle]

12. The issue is not logic, it's whether it was legal to proceed the

way BushCo did. They can rationalize all they want. The legal ramifications must be debated and, if found to be applicable, used to prosecute/impeach.

[BillZBubb]

15. But is this a legal issue or a political issue?

Legally, you are right on the money. And, if an impartial legal proceding were possible, the Chimperor would be doing a perp walk.

But I think this issue will be fought in a political arena only, so the Republicans, who control congress will not let it go far at all. And without a deluge of outrage from a big majority of people, they'll succeed.