Weapons Of Corporate Deception - Censored by CafePress

[iconoclastNYC]

They said that this would get me sued! To me it is clearly a piece of political speech/art.

What do you think?

[oldtime dfl_er]

1. hmm...I actually have a tshirt that says

CNN LIED
and either they haven't found it yet or they don't care. I think it's the fact that these images look like the logos for the companies. Change the fonts/graphics and you should be okay. I think.

http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/665903

[tecelote]

2. You're using their logos.

It's a copyright violation. You can use their names.

[DrDebug]

3. Well you use their logos so they can make a point about it

On the other they don't really bother about that stuff. IconoclastNY isn't that important in the grand scale of thing. I'm sorry to say that, but that's the way it is...

[BattyDem]

4. You can't use someone else's logo to make a profit

CafePress isn't censoring you, they're protecting you ... you would most definitely get sued if you sold anything with corporate logos on it.

[iconoclastNYC]

5. What about that American flag with 50 logos on it? Anybody get sued ?

I'm sure people made money on those.

[BattyDem]

12. For whatever reason, CafePress is being extremely careful ...

It could be that your message is critical of the companies whose logos you use. The flag with the 50 logos doesn't really criticize a corporation directly, it's merely a comment on the connection between the corporate world and our government.

But you're saying these news companies are deceiving us - and you're right, they are - but you're using their logos to insult them, so maybe that's why CafePress is being cautious on this one.

It's always been my understanding that you can't use anyone else's logos or graphics to make a profit. Political speech has different protections ... but does criticizing a news corporation qualify as political speech? :shrug:

I'm on your side ... I think it's a great shirt! :toast: I'm just trying to explain why I think CafePress said no to it.

[Jack Rabbit]

6. I think their lawyers are being a little nervous

On the other hand, it might get you sued, just not necessarily successfully. SLAPP suits aren't discussed here very much for some reason. A large corporation doesn't need a good reason to file a SLAPP suit. In fact, a SLAPP suit almost by definition is one filed for no good reason.

You may spend less money defending yourself than they do prosecuting the case, but it will still hurt you a lot worse than it hurts them. Artificial persons have deeper pockets than real people.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. I saw this.

A federal trademark dilution claim requires proof that (1) the mark is famous, (2) the defendant adopted the mark after it became famous, (3) the defendant diluted the mark, and (4) the defendant's use is in commerce. Hagan argued that his political use of the TaftQuack character was not "in commerce" within the meaning of Section 43(c)(1) of the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. §1125(c)(1), but the court disagreed. It noted that the "in commerce" provision sweeps as broadly as the commerce clause and was held in United We Stand America Inc. v. United We Stand, America New York Inc., 128 F.3d 86, 44 USPQ2d 1351 (2d Cir. 1997) (54 PTCJ 598, 10/23/97), to encompass political groups' soliciting, organizing, and press releases.

The FTDA, however, expressly exempts "noncommercial" uses, 15 U.S.C. § 1125(c)(4)(B). The court said this is "shorthand" for "speech protected by the First Amendment." AFLAC argued that when speech has both commercial and noncommercial elements, the exemption should not apply. But the court agreed with the Mattel court that "f speech is not 'purely commercial'--that is, if it does more than propose a commercial transaction"--it falls within the exemption.

http://ipcenter.bna.com/pic2/ip.nsf/id/BNAP-5FNLCN?OpenDocument

[tecelote]

7. There are cases when you can get away with it...

1. Get their permission.

2. Do something they consider positive for their image. Generally, they let this go.

But, of course, you are making a statement they will not like. So, yes, CafePress is protecting you.

The Internet has made it a lot easier to go after copyright and trademark violations.

I know of a law firm that simply searches the Internet for violations. When they find them, they contact the company being violated and asks if they can pursue the case. They get a lot of business that way.

Many people will settle out of court. Ideal for them.

[iconoclastNYC]

11. But this is being used to make a political statement

And that is a noncommerical use, and I think it falls under the expemption that I posted in this thread.

[tecelote]

14. Anything on CafePress would be considered commercial.

How were you going to use this?

[iconoclastNYC]

15. The way i'm readingt the law

It has to be purely commerical. My intent here is to get out a political statement. Which means its not purely commercial.

[tecelote]

18. If you accept money you will have trouble.

It's not profit, it's making money. Any money.

You may be able to fly under the radar but the times have been changing in favor of the lawyers.

Can you do it without using their trademarked logo's? You can use their names.

[iconoclastNYC]

19. No it doesn't work without the logos

This is bullshit. I dont think it violates the law.

If i had money for a laywer to research it I'm sure I could get an expert opinion to back me up.

If I gave these away how is it not diluting thier trademark.

Did you read what I posted about that AFLAAC suit?

[tecelote]

23. I know it sucks.

But, I am sure a high paid lawyer would agree.

Companies must protect their copyrights and trademarks or they risk losing it.

You can be sure there are very high paid lawyers on their end and things like this are great for them to show how much they are worth.

I'm also sure that CafePress is scoured over by Copyright and Trademark lawyers.

[tsuki]

21. But that does not stop a corporate frivolous lawsuit. And you have to

defend at megabucks.

[tecelote]

8. This was a double post.

[Webster Green]

10. They made me take these down....same deal, copyright protection

They red-flagged my cute little photoshopped revisions of government seals.

I sent them an e-mail saying I believed they would fall into the category of political satire. They disagreed, so I had to take the images out of my store.

[iconoclastNYC]

16. That is even more complete bullshit

They tend towards censorship and I think its bullshit.

Political speech is exempted from copyright law.

[BattyDem]

17. Those are definitely political satire!

CafePress probably didn't like your "message" :eyes:

[DistressedAmerican]

13. They Are Not Worried About You Getting Sued. They Are Worried bout Them

sued.

They made me remove one item in the time I have had my store, a shirt featruing an image of Hunter S. Thompson. Also said it was a copyright violation. They ere on the side of their lawyers.

Sweet ass design though! The corporate media are all of our enemies!

Here is my design:



The original shot had been pretty heavily modified but...

[pengu1n]

24. You could try this...

The company is being super careful. It would seem like fair comment to me - political satire. You could change the logos enough to avoid copyright. Take the chance to be creative.

Perhaps the cafe-press "legal department" do not approve of the message?

As for the official seals - superb...what is wrong with them?
Is the government going to sue for bringing down their good reputation. It would make an interesting court case.

Surfing around, I found these guys.. .

This crew are based in Europe - but they ship to the states. The exchange will make you think twice - but I don't think there will be the same objections to the content.


Spreadshirt

[newyawker99]

25. Hi pengu1n!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Ysolde]

20. Not a lawyer,

but I'd guarantee that you (and CafePress) would get sued. I can't answer whether you'd win or they would, but who has deep enough pockets to pay the lawyer until you were vindicated?

Too bad you can't put it out there, though. It'd be great on t-shirts!

[HR_Pufnstuf]

22. When in doubt, iron-on.

http://www.business-supply.com/office_supplies_2017825_avery-iron-on-t-shirt-transfers.html

And then you could go to the local Thrift Store, and buy ALL of the old Tshirts for $0.50, iron on your idea, and just give them to your friends.

CafePress.com does now allow existing copyrights to be used. Nor do they allow Corporate Rips (ie. LEVIS=ELVIS for instance). I disagree with their stance on Corp Rips, but you cannot use existing copyrights in your design.