What can be done about lowering gas prices?

[bigwillq]

I paid $2.41/gal for reg. here in CT. That is the highest I ever remember paying. I know Shrub gave that speech awhile back discussing high oil prices but of course nothing is being done about it.

So, what can be done to lower prices?

I really want to know what you DUers think. I have a repuke at work and I want to be able to come back at him with some good responses.

Thanks.

[donco6]

1. I'm not sure they CAN be.

I think we've been paying an artificially low price as it is. I think what we REALLY should be focusing on is changing how America believes life should be. We all think we should be able to get in a car and drive 20 miles to pick up a video. We think nothing of driving an hour to work one way each day. No one bats an eye at thousands of cars with one person inside, chugging along a crowded highway at 70 mph.

This just isn't sustainable. It's not possible.

[bigwillq]

8. But certain professions

make it impossible to use any other form of transportation besides a car.
I travel all over the place for my job and I need to get to and fro in a constricted time frame in order to meet deadline. There's no way I could take a bus or train.

[newswolf56]

24. It's not "certain professions," it's certain locales. Doing...

...journalism in New York City, for example, NEVER required an automobile simply because it has the ONLY real -- that is, European style -- public transport system in the United States. You could ride the subway everywhere you needed to go -- and in about a quarter of the time it would take you to cab, bus or drive a car. But doing journalism everywhere else in the U.S. does indeed require a car. I know; it was my lifelong career.

The advantages of NOT being required to have an automobile are huge. Indeed the only time in my whole career I ever made enough money to actually save money was during the years I was in Manhattan. This was NOT because the pay there for print journalists was so much higher -- in fact it was not (the differential was never more than 25 percent, and increased living costs ate up much of that). It was rather because my years in Manhattan were the only time in my life I didn't have an automobile gobbling 10 days pay out of my wages every month for car payments, maintenance, insurance, gasoline, miscellaneous taxes and registration.

Idiots that we are -- the inscription on the base of the statue of liberty should be replaced with "Step Right Up" -- we sullenly refuse to understand that we have the most expensive, least efficient (and most deadly) transportation system on the planet.

Instead we cling like petulant spoiled brats to our automobiles, imagining that we are somehow "privileged" to own them -- indeed as if we were all the most smug and obscenely wealthy plutocrats -- rather than recognizing that the automobile is an albatross around our necks both individually and collectively. Our lethal dependence on it (and on internal combustion engines in general) is the doom of America, the beginning of which we are now witnessing.

If we had to pay so much in taxes for public transportation as we pay for private cars, there would have been open rebellion long ago. But the great irony is that, by having maliciously refused to build adequate public transport, it is now too late. Building it now in this era of national ruination will cost us many many times what it would have cost even a decade ago -- inflation (ironically driven by oil prices) will ensure that. In other words, as privately owned automobiles become impossibly expensive to operate, much of the country will loose ALL transport capability -- and the economy will collapse accordingly.

Nor do I apologize for my negativity. I do not think many people can grasp the economic horror that is coming -- one that will make the Great Depression a party by comparison. And though it would have come upon us with or without Bush, there is no doubt he has hastened its onset by at least a decade if not more. Moreover, by his infinitely vicious hostility to low-income peoples and working families in general, Bush has radically, even maliciously worsened the impact the crisis is having on all of us who are not genuinely wealthy. Indeed I had hoped to be dead before this time of reckoning arrived. But now -- aging, ever more impoverished and therefore ultimately ever more frail -- I will no doubt be one of the earlier victims of the total collapse of the American economy.



Edit: sentence beginning "Moreover..." added to clarify focus of last paragraph.

[donco6]

27. I'm nominating this thread based on this post alone.

Bravo!

[donco6]

26. I'm not saying EVERYONE should.

It's impossible right now, anyway, just as you say. But we continue making big mistakes in how we think about the way we live. We buy houses that are 50 miles from our place of work. Why? Because we can "always drive there." We structure our businesses to require travel all over town. Why? Because we can always drive. We collect our businesses in remote areas from our housing, which is even more remote from manufacturing. Why? Because the roads connect everything. Why do we allow big polluting industries to exist? Because we can always locate them far away from populations centers. Why? Repeat after me, Because we can drive there!

We just have it all wrong, from ground zero. And it's not going to be an easy fix.

[etherealtruth]

2. I think our gas prices are (and have been) artificially low ...

I'll wait and see what others think ... I think the only answer is more fuel efficient vehicles and investment in new technology.

[bigwillq]

9. I agree with the fuel efficient cars

But I also heard that hybrid cars--there batteries only last three years or so and it costs big bucks for a new one.
Is that true?

[etherealtruth]

13. My understanding is that, yes, it is very $$$ ...

...to replace the battery packs, but, Toyota and the other car companies warranty the batteries for a significant amount of time (or miles). I don't drive a hybrid (would love to) maybe someone with first hand knowledge can let us know.

http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm

"While most hybrid battery packs are actually made up of a number of individual cells, generally the whole pack must be replaced if there is a problem. Replacement battery packs for hybrid cars run in the several thousand dollar range including labor. Most estimates I’ve heard are near the $2000-$3000 range."

"Although no one can predict exactly how long the hybrid batteries will last, the manufacturers stand behind their products. For example, on hybrid components, Honda provides a 8 year/80,000 mile warranty; Toyota provides an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty."

[Coastie for Truth]

17. 150,000 mile warranty on the batteries -- and it's not pro-rated

Doesn't make any difference whether the battery dies at day one - or at 150,000 miles -- you get a new one free.

The rumors to the contrary have been started by people like Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz (Google them) -- and have a distinctly "Great Lakes State" "Maize and blue" cast and odor.

Hint of the source of this rumor:

TUEBOR
<>
<><>

I lived in the Great Lakes State for seven + years, worked on the GM EV1 - I know how the game is played.

[Vincardog]

3. Diesel, Go BioDieseil

[donco6]

29. We switched all of our school buses to biodiesel this year.

No problems at all.

[seabeyond]

4. with school out i am not filling up often. 2.09 our low

i filled up at our now low. a week later up to 2.19 and going up more. i am going to watch the price and top off when low, and leave alone when high. really feeling like a friggin game, up down up down

[NashVegas]

5. Go Kick Iran's Ass

You were expecting something else?

In the UK, they pay the equivalent of $7.00 per gallon. Tell your buddy to think about that.

[Initech]

6. I have a solution!

And it's an easy one, too - Stop electing oil barons to the highest levels of government!

I cant believe that people have made that connection yet.

[James T. Kirk]

7. The strategic petroleum reserve won't help.

It's too small an amount to make a difference and it would take months to process into fuel. Also, the US government would have to buy oil to replace it if it was released to the market.

I'd say use less gas and the price will drop.

[Cobalt Violet]

10. We need to get back to more trolleys.

I see pictures of the tiny, remote towns in my state that all had a trolley system 100 or so years ago. Now they have no public transportation at all. And if you live in that one of those towns without a car you can't work or anything.

[Smirking_Chimp]

11. Balanced budget + stronger dollar = lower gas prices.

If * kept a balanced budget, (instead of reckless spending, tax cuts during wartime, borrowing from China and Japan, and lowering our credit rating) with a strong dollar gas would be about $1.20 a gallon today.
Building more refineries is the blame-shifting excuse they are using to throw everyone off track.

[Quixote1818]

12. Invested the 300 billion we pissed away in Iraq into alternitive fuel

We should have put the 300 Billion we pissed away in Iraq into investing into alternative fuel sources and helping AMERICAN car manufacturing companies to make the transition to using these sources. The new alternative fuel sources should be something we can produce right here in the US such as ethanol which would help farmers and keep the money at home.

Then countries all over the world would scramble to catch up with us and we would make Oil prices drop like a rock drying up Terrorist funding from places like Saudi Arabia and reducing the power of Iraq and Saudi Arabia to almost nothing. Meanwhile the US would have made a FORTUNE on all our investments and exporting ethanol all over the world. We could have also used part of the $300 billion to make the emissions cleaner and cleaned up the environment in the process.

In a nut shell we could have defeated Iraq without firing one shot, taken over as the world leader in fuel sources and technology, helped our car companies increase their production and profits, helped our farmers, cut funding to terrorists and diminished the Middle Easts power to a minimum. Our deficit would be under control and millions of jobs would have been created, crime would have gone down and the US economy would be KICKING ASS!

So much for thinking out of the box. War seems to be the prefered way to do business even in 2005.

[bigwillq]

14. Great points!

Thanks.:hi:

[jedr]

15. Stop using it (gas); conserve as much as you can;

use all those tricks you learned in the 70's, combine trips ,do as many things as possible one one trip....stop spending money as much as you can ( if your like me you have enough junk at home to last a while)..as consumption drops so will prices... also as less money gets spent, the business section will start crying over the drop in sales and put pressure on bushco...we still have the power to bring them to their knees

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. They will never go down again

Sorry.

The oil fields that have easily extractable oil are being depleted, and unlike say ten or twenty years ago, China and India, the most populous nations on earth, are rapidly industrializing and competing for the same oil we are.

The smart thing to do is not to wish for lower oil prices but to adjust one's life to minimize one's use of petroleum products. For example, if you have occasion to move, DON'T buy a house in the exurbs. Buy one in the city or in a real small town where you can walk or bike to essential stores and services.

[NewJeffCT]

28. They will go down again...

Next summer, the prices will soar up to over $3.00 per gallon...

then, in the weeks before the election, the prices will dip to $2.90 per gallon and the media will celebrate the great news of the drop in prices and praise Bush for lowering the price.

[kestrel91316]

18. Stop wasting energy of all types! ...................

Stop exerting pressure on supply, which only drives prices up. Stop buying useless cheap plastic crap made in China. Buy local seasonal produce whenever humanly possible (no more strawberries in december, kiddies). Get a bike and ride it to work, to your friend's house, to the store. Use mass transit whenever humanly possible. Elect politicians who put a priority on energy self-sufficiency and environmental responsibility. Do all these things and more YOURSELF instead of expecting everybody else to do it so you can still have cheap gas. Cheap gas is not a civil right.

This is not directed personally to the OP, but rather to EVERYBODY. The buck has to stop with each and every one of us.

[bigwillq]

21. I was asking more about

what the government can do. I know by electing responsible politicians and not oil businessmen.
Thanks for your thoughts.

[Coastie for Truth]

19. Bite The Bullet

Transit friendly living in pedestrian friendly communities.
Hybrids

Bio Diesel Hybrids
Plug In Hybrids
Electric Cars

Mass Transit
Synthetic fuels (anaerobic digestion of sewage as a fuel source)
Raise CAFE to well above 35 mpg
Mass transit
Bicycle
Walk
Combine trips

[toddaa]

20. Nothing - Peak Oil

What you are paying right now is incredibly cheap. Enjoy it while you can.

[Telly Savalas]

35. Nevertheless we must recognize that higher gas prices...

put the squeeze on lower and middle class folks. (Both directly through their own consumption, and indirectly via the increase in the price of goods due to a boost in transportation costs.)

But agreed that artifically holding down the price of gas is not the answer.

Instead we need:
1. Fairer tax policies which lift the burden on the less affluent. Such a plan should include a solid Earned Income Tax Credit. This will help compensate for the hardships suffered by high gas prices.

2. An aggressive policy to promote alternative energy. This makes both economic and environmental sense.

3. At lower levels of government, a bit of sanity should be restored in city-planning. Put an end to zoning laws which demand low density development. Instead of the inefficient aesthetic nightmare of urban sprawl, new development should be made in a manner that allows people to walk or bicycle more places. Furthermore, public transportation should be made a priority.

By the way, great sig line. I'm gonna go put on an Eric Dolphy CD and bake some cookies. Cheers.

[TroubleMan]

22. I don't think they'll go down until it hits $5 - $7 per gallon.

That'll probably be a year or two from now.

I really don't have any scientific basis for this.....other than that's when it will really impact the average joe. When you can't afford to drive to work, that's when peak oil will be something everybody will finally acknowledge (albeit probably too late). It will probably just stabilize around that price or maybe just go down slightly.

That's when the corporations will see big dollars in producing a viable alternative energy source (if there is one). Oil can't go down in price unless it has competition, something that will offer you the same thing. Right now it has a monopoly on our economy and lives worldwide. Unless a viable alternative competes with it or there's a mass die-off of people, demand can't fall. Also, the supply will never go up. So you have a demand that can't go down or be satiated (at least for another 10 years or a miracle breakthrough), and a supply that will steadily decrease and never go back up. Also, nothing to replace it. I don't see how prices can go down.

Have a nice day :)

[GeekMonkey]

23. LEGALIZE HEMP

That would put a HUGE dent in our demand for petroleum products.

It wouldnt totally eliminate it, but it would bring it down where we didn't have to use foreign sources for it.

[donco6]

30. ? Why? eom

[GeekMonkey]

31. Hemp can be used for many of the same things that we

currently use petroleum for.

Diesel fuel.
Protein rich seed meal.
Plastic.
Clothing.
Press board.
Glue.
Industrial Lubricant.

the list is seemingly endless

[donco6]

32. Oh. I thought you meant because stoned people

aren't that industrious. As long as they can reach the Cheetohs, life is good.

:)

[ObaMania]

25. Regime change in US. n/t

[Geek_Girl]

33. ask him this

There are no supply shortages, no long lines, nobody is being turned away at the gas pumps, so why are prices so high?

Then tell him that 80% of campaign contributions from the oil industry go to republicans and the oil companies are making mega profits.

You don't have to argue or fight just point out a couple of things.

[donco6]

34. Kick

:kick: