Why did Jean Charles de Menezes run?

[theHandpuppet]

The following excerpts may provide a clue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/international/europe/25victim.html?ex=1122955200&en=506573122a077d72&ei=5099&partner=TOPIX

Relatives and Friends Remember a Busy, Hopeful Man, and Discover a New Fear

By SARAH LYALL
Published: July 25, 2005

"Fausto Soares, another Brazilian friend in London, said that perhaps Mr. Menezes ran because a confrontation with an English gang several weeks earlier had made him especially worried about being chased."

And on a related note:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1527288,00.html
Islamophobia blamed for attack

Vikram Dodd
Wednesday July 13, 2005
The Guardian

"A Muslim man has been beaten to death outside a corner shop by a gang of youths who shouted anti-Islamic abuse at him, the Guardian has learned.
Kamal Raza Butt, 48, from Pakistan, was visiting Britain to see friends and family. On Sunday afternoon he went to a shop in Nottingham to buy cigarettes and was first called "Taliban" by the youths and then set upon.

"Nottinghamshire police described the incident as racially aggravated, not as Islamophobic, angering Muslim groups and surprising some senior officers.

"They say it was not connected to a backlash against Muslims following the London bombings, which has seen mosques firebombed and Muslims attacked in the street."

And there's also this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4713753.stm
Police shot Brazilian eight times

(snipping)
"When he was challenged by police in the Tube station, he fled, reportedly leaping the ticket barrier.

"Over the past year there have been an increased number of immigration checks at Tube stations - a policy widely reported in Brazilian papers in London."

And finally, if it still isn't abundantly clear:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1707480,0...

"There are eight separate flats in the block. When Mr Menezes emerged from the communal front door just after 9.30am, the police must have realised from the photographs they carried that he was not one of the four bombers. Even so they decided that he was “a likely candidate” to follow because of his demeanour and colour, so one group set off on foot after him."


Now maybe some folks here who keep bleating that "then why did he run?" line, as if that was some excuse for his execution, might get a clue why a young, dark-complexioned immigrant might run from a bunch of white guys in plain clothes who are chasing him with guns.

[rox63]

1. Last time I checked

running was legal. Shooting an unarmed man isn't. Or if it is legal, it shouldn't be.

[Kagemusha]

2. Uh, running from cops is in no way legal that I can recall.

That's resisting arrest at the minimum...

[theHandpuppet]

4. Or if you happen to be brown...

... a capital offense? Spare me.

[Kagemusha]

10. I said it wasn't legal. I never said it was a capital offense, geez.

But whatever, you wanna snap at everything go ahead.

[noiretextatique]

23. policemen...dressed in plainclothes... eom

[SemperEadem]

6. can you resist arrest if you haven't been told you're under arrest?

Perhaps the gentleman was late for work...

[Kagemusha]

11. Well that's what I'm waiting to find out.

No, you can't resist arrest if you haven't been told. The question is if he was told or if he saw what he thought was a white armed gang after him. I sure would like to know exactly what happened. I hope we find out, but I don't have maximum confidence we will.

[Guaranteed]

13. Right, and if they do tell you that you're under arrest, and you don't

stop, it's shooting gallery time!

[Bucky]

20. Five to the head while he was pinned down is what I read. Is that right?

That's not exactly a shooting gallery. Is that an accurate description of what went on?

[LisaL]

24. It was actually 8. 7 in the head, one in the shoulder.

[LisaL]

22. He definitely knew they were after him, IMO.

Witnesses describe him looking like a cornered rabbit when they apprehended him.
But witnesses are not describing police yelling "stop, police" at him.

[jsamuel]

17. He was running before they said anything.

Witnesses said that all the police shouted was "Get Down"

[noiretextatique]

25. not if you aren't under arrest eom

[Siena]

3. Weren't they also not in uniform?

Who wouldn't run when a bunch of thugs are approaching you with guns???

[theHandpuppet]

5. Yes, I said they were in plain clothes.

That was one of the points being made.

[Siena]

9. sorry...

I skimmed too fast, handpuppet.

[theHandpuppet]

16. No prob...

I made that point because not only had their been a recent hate crime of a Pakistani man beaten to death by thugs, but the young man himself had been confronted by a gang of white thugs just weeks earlier.

[cornermouse]

7. If I was his family, I'd be talking lawsuit too.

[maveric]

8. Like here in Murika, brown people run, white people shoot them.

[ruperupe]

12. please check out this related thread. very important!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4184924

[Karenina]

14. Big city 6th sense...

I'm being followed...
Get me to where there's SAFETY in numbers...

[Horse with no Name]

15. Would be interesting to know

AT what point did they tell him that they were police?
When he first started running? Or did they chase him for awhile?
Personally, if someone told me they were the police before I had gotten into a good groove, I would stop.
But if you chase me 3-4 blocks and THEN tell me you are the police--I have no reason to believe you.
I only have reason to believe that you want me to stop so that you can harm me and at that point will tell me anything to stop me.

[Nabia2004]

18. Not only that...

For many people, when speaking a second language, critical listen skills diminish under stress. If this guy suspected a gang of racist thugs were after him, it was likely that he didn't understand a word they were saying until it was to late.

[John Doe II]

19. We have many eyewitnesses at the platform

hearing the police shouting "get down"! Yet, while theses witnesses recall a warning for them they don't recall (at least I didn't find any example so far) any warning to de Menezes.

[Must_B_Free]

21. Was he Blair's bomb maker?

perhaps they were just getting rid of the evidence...

[noiretextatique]

26. why didn't they just stop him

when...
he came out of the flat?
or when he was walking to the bus?
or when he got off the bus?
why didn't they stop him at any point when they were following him?

[Karenina]

27. Things that make ya go

HMMMMM....

[noiretextatique]

28. hmmmm....

i believe he is what's known as a "symbolic assiliant" over here, because of his "otherness."