Who has the tone and message you support, and believe is winnable?

[Armstead]

In light of the DLC convention, I'm having the sinking feeling that the Democrats are determined to repeat the same damn mistake of lack of clarity and conviction that has hamstrung our side of the political spectrum for too many years.

In a more positive vein, here's some of the politicians and other public figures who I believe have the clear and meaningful "message" and honest clarity that our side needs to really come back to life in a political sense.

These vary from slightly left to really left. But they do have the elements of the basic clear liberal message on the issues that matter that IMO would really resonate if it were adopted by the political poobahs as a message for the Democratic mainstream.


Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Dick Durbin (except for his apology), Robert Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papentonio, Howard Dean (usually), Jan Schiakowski, Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, John Conyers, Byron Dorgan, Paul Wellstone, Charlie Rangel, Dennis Kucinich....etc.

Who reflects your own vision of a political message that you both agree with, and believe could win electorally?

[TahitiNut]

1. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn about "win electorally".

It's just not my job to pander to the prejudices of others. I support Kucinich, Sanders, and the CBC as espousing the principles and values aligned with mine. (I doubt Wellstone, being deceased, would "win electorally" or continue to espouse such values.)

I'm appalled at people who have surrendered to the "American Idol" mentality and continue to malign Kucinich, especially on DU. He has remained steadfast in articulating mainstream liberal democratic values and principles. Anyone who participates in (ad hominem) marginalizing Kucinch is marginalizing his message. This is the ethical bankruptcy of teleological prognostication.

For me, it's about doing the "Right Thing™" and letting the outcome take care of itself. I'm sick and tired of Control Freaks!

[Armstead]

4. It's not mutually exclusive IMO

Unfortunately we do live in an American Idol culture, and have to play that game too.

But I don't think an honest liberal/progressive message has to be watered down to do that.

[TahitiNut]

5. Welcome to the "Prisoner's Dilemma". Find your way out.

Clue: "Tit for Tat" isn't the way out.

Q: What happens when you find yourself in a "game" where the rules prevent a satisfactory outcome??? What do you do??

Q: What happens in a game of Monopoly when the players don't buy properties? Try it some time.

[meganmonkey]

6. Heh...you are reading my mind

and putting things much better than I could!

I am a big Kucinich fan, he was the answer for the first part of the OPs question with no hesitation. The electability issue? Well, how does one balance that out? If someone is electable in an obvious way, they probably aren't the person I would want to vote for. To be frank, even Kerry was a stretch for me.

It's a tough call. Until 2004 I never voted for Dems for Pres, to be honest. I didn't want to compromise and I was never happy with the Dem candidates. As I have gotten older and a have a better understanding of the big picture, I have mellowed a little in that regard, but I consider myself a progressive first and a democrat second. There are a lot of potential candidates being floated around that I don't really want to have to vote for.

[Armstead]

15. I wasn't asking for candidates....

I was asking about who represents the message we should have, regardless of whether or not the individual is a potential presidential candidate.

[meganmonkey]

18. Well, for me it is Kucinich

but as for "who represents the message we should have" - I have a hard time with questions like that. 'We' are a lot of different types of people and I don't think there is one person who would make everybody happy.

[Armstead]

21. Hence my question

Trying to get a handle on who inspires and represents us.

Not a litmus test.

[Pithy Cherub]

2. Clark represents my liberal political value system

with the prerequisite leadership skills and national security bona fides. Anybody who says they are a liberal General proudly on The Daily Show gets my vote. :)

No Third way fan here!

[stanwyck]

7. I think Clark

would really mess up Republican strategy. The conservatives try to portray themselves as wildly pro-military -- without serving, of course. They're not "that" pro-military. It's all in theory.
So, a real life General would really shut down the squawking of the chickenhawks. And that would be a beautiful thing. The neo-cons would be shown as candyassed pontificaters who are just crazy about invading the Middle East...as long as they're safely at home in their penthouses.
And it's time to show these guys for the sublime phonies they are.
I'd vote for Clark for that alone.

[Sparkly]

11. I agree.

I think he'd demolish thirty years and gazillions of dollars the GOP has spent building up myths and memes against Democrats -- without having to say a word about it.

He's also clear-spoken, incredibly smart, and has no 'strings' attached.

[CanonRay]

3. Select a Leader

I, too, am sick of Dems moving to the right to try to get elected. We need to articulate, and live, our principles. Worry about what state the person is from later. If we offer someone who is articulate, and can lead this country, we will win. My personal favorite is Joe Biden. He, for one, knows what he's talking about, and isn't afraid to say what's on his mind. I don't think he would listen to "handlers" like Kerry did, so that his message got distorted and watered down. We need a real Dem, who will lead the country and the party.

[blm]

8. The electronic voting machines controlled by the GOP determine who wins.

And the media machine controlled by the GOP makes it all plausible.

[Alkene]

9. I would welcome the 'honest clarity' of ...

The Honorable John Conyers, Jr.,
presently representing Michigan's 14th District.

[TahitiNut]

10. Welcome to DU.

Conyers is worthy of the title "Honorable" ... unlike most.

[Mandate My Ass]

12. Yes, he's almost a one-man opposition party

and doesn't back down under RW assault. Agreed, and welcome. :toast:

Dennis Kucinich is another standout on principle.

[Armstead]

23. Conyers is the man

Not just on Rovegate, but a whole host of other issues.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi Alkene!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[hippiegranny]

13. I don't care who we run

I will vote for them, but I want our side to stop trying to play both ends against the middle. It never works. A clear cut message of vision and hope are what it is going to take to get the public out of its stupor. So far I like Gen. Clark.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. I'll be voting issues from now on. My nose is worn out.

I've had enough of the "not as bad as", "if you don't vote for the Democrat the sky will fall", bullshit, as has been promoted since '92.

I'll be voting against the "war on terror", the occupation of Iraq, the undermining of abortion rights, and a whole list of other rightwing issues that the DLC and their followers tell us are "necessary to win".

There's some on your list that I would happily and enthusiastically support but, like you, I fear the Dems will fall for the DLC crappola again.

If that's the case, I'll be voting Green without a blink. As I already intend to do in '06 for senator against my "liberal" Democrat incumbent who voted for the war.

[Armstead]

16. CLARIFICATION: NOT ASKIING ABOUT PREZ CANDIDATES

My original post was not "Who should the democrats run for president in 2008."

I was asking on a much broader level who represents your views, and who addresses things in a way that you believe should reflect what the Democratic Party as a whole should be saying.

[sweetheart]

19. 1. Kucinich 2. Dean 3.Clark

Kucinich is right on, and if he were given the respect he deserves,
his platform is the only one that is not dissociated, dissonant and
disingenuous.

[jane_pippin]

17. Russ

I like his message, I like his approach to campaigning, I think he's likable and I think he could win. (Maybe not in 2008, but I think the more Americans get to know him the more likely it will be that I'll see Russ win in my lifetime. At least that's what I hope.)

[LWolf]

22. Dennis Kucinich

He laps the rest of the pack in my book.

[eridani]

24. Kucinich, hands down

He has the entire list of things that Dems need to stand for, especially the "marker" issues of universal health care and an end to a war that was wrong from the start. Plenty of congressional representatives are standing with him also--Conyers, McDermott, McKinney, Schakowsky, Slaughter, Waters, Waxman, Woolsey, Boxer, Feingold--all the usual suspects. You know, the ones who are always on the list of the those who voted against the latest legislative atrocity.

[Armstead]

25. He should get more credit for being absolutely right about the war

Kucinich was one of the few Democrats who went out on the limb and said that the WMD issue was wrong all along.

At the time I thought maybe he should not have been so unequivocal about it. But it turned out he was absolutely correct.