Black Box Voting: TODAY -- Agitate, go local, hit LWV, here's why:

[BevHarris]

Voting machine vendors say they will just "wear us down." We'll just give up, they think, if they can hold out long enough. In the mean time, they are steamrolling across America, holding "town meetings" that no one attends (because public notice was buried) and blitzing with press releases about how happy everyone is.

The national office of the League of Women Voters is doing some real damage, and needs to be turned around. Though they usually act in consensus with local chapters, this time they just adopted a stance against paper trails, and they are NOT supporting Rush Holt's bill. This time, they failed to consult their local chapters, and the national office is refusing to listen to experts like Dr. David Dill (who has marshalled 1,000 experts in computer technology together in a statement that these systems are inherently prone to tampering); Indeed, the League of Women Voters (national office) is refusing to say who their so-called experts are. I can guess: R. Doug Lewis and crew.

Thanks to everyone for contacts already made, but please go just one more step, and let your colleagues know: See http://www.blackboxvoting.org Contacts page for contact info on over 200 chapters of LWV, Encourage the local chapters to contact their headquarters on this.

I believe you will find the following letter informative. It expresses the dismay one local LWV member feels about the disconnect between the LWV national office and its local chapters.

I will post that letter as a response to this, to keep this post a bit shorter.

I am now exposing the national position of the League of Women Voters in every interview I do. Next interview: This afternoon, NPR.

I have called both the president of LWV and the press office. To date, they have not responded at all, nor returned any of my messages. Therefore, I am now mentioning in my interviews that they are ignoring people and failing to return calls.

Strategic value: Why pick on LWV? Because changing the LWV stance will send a loud message to other organizations (ie Common Cause) who took positions against a paper trail, or decided to sit on the sidelines (MoveOn). Common Cause is next, by the way.

Because of the similarity in wording among the "position papers" put out by various groups (see this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=44603&mesg_id=49291&page=1) we believe they are unduly influenced by voting machine vendors, and a next step will be to call for investigation of their funding to see what contributions have been made to these groups by voting machine vendors.

Bev Harris
Black Box Voting
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

[BevHarris]

1. Letter of dismay, from a League of Women Voters member

This letter, to LWV president Kay Maxwell, contributed by RedEagle, emphasizes the importance of engagement in today's activism:

==================

I live in Palo Alto. I'm a former ACM president, and founder of the US Public Policy Committee of ACM (USACM). If you go to www.acm.org/usacm/,you'll get an idea of what I've been doing for the past several years. We also have a webpage under USACM on voting.

Barbara


Subject: Re: The LWV

Dear Kay,

Jeanette expresses appreciation for my interest in the League, but I have more than an interest in the League. I am a League member, as well as someone who for a long time has viewed the League as a worthy and valued successor to the organizations of women and men who struggled to obtain the vote for women. I cannot emphasize enough how much this exchange has pained me. I would hate to see the League, which does a great deal of wonderful work, discredited because of an ill conceived and dangerous policy.

I had been hoping to speak with you so that I could convince you of the risks that the League's policy on computerized voting pose for the League. Since that has not been possible, I am reduced to repeating the risks yet again in this email.

The following claim appears on the League website at
http://www.lwv.org/where/promoting/votingrights_hava_drevm.html:
The experts that we have consulted say that there are many safeguards
other than an individual ballot paper confirmation that can protect the sanctity of the ballot and that other issues are far more important in safeguarding our election systems.

Despite repeated requests by several League members, myself included, both Jeanette and Lloyd Leonard have refused to reveal the names of the experts with whom they claim to have consulted about computerized
voting. However, a recent email sent to League leaders by Jeannette
contains a statement from Michael Shamos. Is he your expert? Are there others?

Since you appear to value Shamos opinion over that of almost 1000
technologists, including many prominent computer security experts (see http://www.verifiedvoting.org/endorsers.asp?catid=1), I am sending you a rebuttal to Shamos claims in separate email.

At a minimum, I hope you will correct the following incorrect statement from the same League website:

It has been suggested that DRE machines are inherently subject to fraud unless there is an individual paper record of each vote. This seems extreme. DREs are extremely sophisticated machines and most DREs store information in multiple formats and in multiple places within its program.

To tamper with a DRE someone would need to know each and every format and storage capacity and be able to manipulate it undetected.


The claim that creating multiple copies of the voter's ballot within the computer provides protection against either buggy software or outright computer fraud demonstrates a lack of understanding of how computers work. I would flunk an undergraduate computer science student who proposed such a security mechanism in a computer science course. It s possible that one of your experts is confusing fault tolerance with security. Multiple copies may provide some protection against the failure of one of the system components, but it does nothing to protect against either computer fraud or most buggy software.

I have raised other issues with you and Jeanette to which neither of you has responded. In the only email I received from you, dated June 18, you said:
Given the results of the comprehensive, and well documented, MIT/CalTech study and others following the 2000 election, the League believes that this effort is indeed an appropriate way to support democracy and the right to vote.

To which I responded on June 23:
With all due respect, the MIT/Caltech study was not comprehensive. It s best viewed as a preliminary or pilot study of a problem that needs closer analysis. Furthermore, the focus of the MIT/Caltech study was not on security.

However, if you read the MIT/Caltech study, you will see that it is not especially supportive of DRE machines, since it points out that DRE machines have a relatively large residual vote, where they define residual as over or under voting for president. On a DRE machine, you cannot have an over vote, and even then the DRE machines do not fare well according to the study.

More important, the MIT/Caltech study also issued a report entitled Fast Facts, dated July 2001. Quoting from that report, starting near the bottom of page 4, they say:
A standard equipment platform must be develop to guarantee that voters can verify their votes and that voters can create a copy of their votes that can be used in the event of a recount (full auditability).

In other words, the MIT report does NOT support the position that the
League has taken by saying that paper ballots are counterproductive. Nowhere does the MIT report argue against paper ballots. And, as I said earlier, no one knows of a way that would allow the voter to verify his or her votes without using a paper ballot. If someone can describe to me a paper-less technology that achieves the goal of voter ballot verification, I shall be very happy to support that
technology once I am convinced that it works and is not excessively
costly. But until that time, we have no alternative except to call for a voter verifiable paper ballot.

In addition to the points I raised above, to which no one from the League national office has responded, there is the following comment taken from page 47 of the MIT/Caltech report entitled, Voting: What Is, What Could Be :
Fourth, equipment should be adapted so that voters can create a record of the vote that they can examine directly, for the sake of auditing equipment and elections. This might require some sort of simple paper recording that the voter can check and submit separately.

As you know, since the MIT/Caltech report was published in 2001, no one has come up with a method for providing the kind of voter verified ballot, other than a paper ballot, as was called for by the report.

Kay, it pains me to see the League proposing a position that is
technically wrong and that adds a dangerous element of insecurity to our elections. Already, election officials are quoting the League's position to justify the purchase of insecure computerized voting machines.

In any democracy the integrity of elections is a matter of national
security, whether it is recognized as such or not. We really ought to view the security of election software with the same degree of technical sophistication that we demand of our military software. This is the position that the League should be advocating.

You must take action now and demand that the League's position on
computerized voting be removed from the website and from all League
documents until an appropriate review is carried out - one that involves real computer security experts.

Regards,
Barbara

P.S. In addition to the people being cc'ed on this note, it is being
posted on a League discussion list that currently has 257 members, a
Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility email list on voting, and David Dill s list of computer professionals concerned about e-voting.

[BevHarris]

2. Note similarity in wording: WHO is writing these responses?

And who is making financial contributions to these organizations?

http://www.lwv.org/where/promoting/votingrights_hava_drevm.html

<snip>
It has been suggested that DRE machines are inherently subject to fraud unless there is an individual paper record of each vote. This seems extreme. DREs are extremely sophisticated machines and most DREs store information in multiple formats and in multiple places within its program. To tamper with a DRE someone would need to know each and every format and storage capacity and be able to manipulate it undetected. Additionally, it must be remembered that DREs are not an election system unto themselves; they are simply an instrument within a complex election system. The key is to design an overall system that builds in multiple checks making it improbable that the system will be tampered with.

The LWVUS does support an individual audit capacity for the purposes of recounts and authentication of elections for all voting systems, including, but not limited to, DREs. The LWVUS does not believe that an individual paper confirmation for each ballot is required to achieve those goals; in fact this is unnecessary and can be counterproductive. An individual paper confirmation for each ballot would undermine disability access requirements, raise costs, and slow down the purchase or lease of machines that might be needed to replace machines that don't work. Simply because a voter verifies their vote on a piece of paper does not guarantee the same results have been be recorded within the machine and vice versa. And why would we assume that, if the total from a paper count and the total from a machine count are different, the paper count is accurate? Is it not just as easy to tamper with an election by "losing" a couple of paper ballots or miscounting them during a recount? And what about the number of ballots involved? In Florida, in the 2000 presidential election, nearly 6 million votes were cast. Do we really believe that recounting that many paper ballots is more accurate than using certified electronic equipment?
<snip>

Which sounds a lot like what the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights has put out:

http://www.electionline.org/site/docs/pdf/lccr_analysis_-_voter_verification.pdf

<snip>
Fact: Security and Reliability Concerns With DRE Machines Have Been Exaggerated
DREs are highly sophisticated, with most of them storing ballot records in multiple formats and in multiple locations. Furthermore, DREs are already required under federal law to create records that can be audited, and most machines currently provide not only the total vote tallies but also a record of how each individual ballot was cast. In many cases, like the machines used in Georgia, DREs produce 3 records of the vote: the official count, a backup count on a separate chip, and a paper record printed out once polls close. In order to rig a DRE, an individual would need to be intimately familiar with its software, gain access to it long enough to change its code, conceal the changes during pre- and postelection testing, and do this on enough machines to actually alter the outcome of an election. While such rigging is possible in theory, in practice it is highly improbable – in fact, in practice, it would be far easier to simply “lose” paper ballots.
<snip>

Thanks to DUer junkdrawer for contributing these.

Bev Harris

[angka]

3. cool

which NPR program will you be on? ATC?

[BevHarris]

6. NPR show "conversations" -- they are taping it

We'll see how wide the broadcast is. May be regional, not national. I don't care, I do everything.

Bev

[angka]

11. that's cool.

but that program is not part of colorado public radio's lineup.

i'm sure there will be a stream...

[Eloriel]

4. This is a bleepin' nightmare

I absolutely do NOT understand why simple common sense doesn't work for this issue.

Here's an analogy: NO ONE would take the position that if you had a dispute with your bank, your deposit slips and canceled checks would or should be worthless in trying to sort the problem out.

It just blows my mind.

Bev, I'm sending you an email about another issue that I hope you'll get a chance to read before your NPR interview.

Eloriel

[BevHarris]

5. LIST OF CONTACTS

(If you have more, add to the contacts page at http://www.blackboxvoting.org)

League of Women's Voters - NATIONAL OFFICE 1730 M Street NW, Suite 1000 Washington D.C. 20036-4508 202-429-1965 202-429-0854 [e-mail] http://www.lwv.org

Enid Oresman The League of Women Voters of Connecticut
The League of Women Voters of Connecticut 1890 Dixwell Avenue, Suite 113, Hamden, CT 06514-3183 203-288-7996 203-288-7998 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/

Peg Chapin League of Women Voters of North Carolina League of Women Voters of North Carolina 3801 Barrett Drive, Suite 204 Raleigh, North Carolina 27609 [phone] [phone] [e-mail] http://www.rtpnet.org/~lwvnc/

Nelda Holder League of Women Voters®of Asheville-Buncombe County League of Women Voters®of Asheville-Buncombe County League of Women Voters, 221 Miles Building 2 Wall Street Asheville, NC 28806 828-258-8223 [e-mail] http://www.abc.nc.lwvnet.org
more at http://www.abc.nc.lwvnet.org/contact.html

Connie Asero President The Carteret County League of Women Voters PO Box 173 Morehead City NC 28557 726-0787 [e-mail] http://www.lwvcarteret.org/

Maxine Eaves President League of Women Voters of Charlotte-Mecklenburg 5806 Whitingham Dr. Charlotte NC 28215 704.556.4600 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.goleaguego.org/ Our email domain will be changing effective April 10, 2003 to @goleaguego.org. We will no longer be using the hotmail address. Please make a note of this change.

League of Women Voters of Macon County League of Women Voters of Macon County PO Box 713 Franklin NC 28744 (828) 524 - 8369 [e-mail] http://www.lwvmaconnc.org/

Ann Torok League of Women Voters of Moore County P.O. Box 1995 Southern Pines NC 28388 235-9208 [e-mail] http://www.lwvmc.org/ sorry didn't see an area code on site

League of Women Voters Orange-Durham-Chatham
P.O.Box 3397 Chapel Hill NC 27515-3397 [phone] [phone] [e-mail] http://odc.nc.lwvnet.org/index.html

Catrina Nicholson League of Women Voters of the Piedmont Triad 1 YWCA Place Greensboro NC 24701 336-274-0202 http://www.greensboro.com/lwv/

Victoria Gerig League of Women Voters of Wake County NC The YWCA Building, 1012 Oberlin Road P.O. Box 10345 Raleigh NC 27605 (919)856-
1983 [e-mail] http://www.rtpnet.org/~wakelwv/

Watauga County League of Women Voters 524 Grand Blvd. Boone NC 28607 [e-mail] http://lwv.watauganet.com/

League of Women Voters of California 801 12th Street; Suite 220 Sacramento CA 95814 [phone] (888) 870-VOTE [phone] [e-mail] http://ca.lwv.org

Miriam Schiffman Administrative Vice President LWV ALAMEDA CA P.O. Box 1645 Alameda CA 94501 [phone] [e-mail] [e-mail] http://alameda.ca.lwvnet.org/

Lois Watson president LWV BAKERSFIELD CA P.O. Box 132 Bakersfield CA 93302-0132 661-634-3773 661-832-5884 [e-mail] http://www.kern.ca.lwv.org/

Jan Nathanson Co-President LWV BEACH CITIES CA 701 13th Street Manhattan Beach CA 90266 310-372-1828 310-643-7271 [e-mail] http://beachcities.ca.lwvnet.org/

Nancy Bickel President LWV BERKELEY, ALBANY, EMERYVILLE CA 1414 University Avenue, Suite D, Berkeley CA 94702 510-843-8824 510-843-8828 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://home.pacbell.net/lwvbae/

LWV BEVERLY HILLS CA 916-442-7215 [e-mail] Call the State office at 916-442-7215 or email at [e-mail] for contact info.

LWV BUTTE COUNTY CA P.O. Box 965 Chico CA 95927 530-895-VOTE 530-342-0915 [e-mail]


LWV CAPISTRANO BAY AREA CA P.O. Box 2174, Capistrano Beach CA 92624 714-647-7101 [e-mail]

LWV CENTRAL ORANGE COUNTY AREA CA [e-mail]

Kathee Tyson President LWV CENTRAL SAN MATEO COUNTY CA 444 Peninsula Avenue, Suite 1 San Mateo CA 94401-1653 650-342-5853 650-558-0881 [e-mail] http://csmc.ca.lwvnet.org/

Dee Pawley President LWV CLAREMONT. CA 226 W. Foothill Blvd. Ste. E Claremont CA 91711-2764 909-624-9457 909-624-9839 [e-mail] http://claremont.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV CUPERTINO/SUNNYVALE CA P.O. Box 2923 Sunnyvale CA 94087 408-733-0454 [e-mail]

LWV DAVIS. CA P.O. Box 72674, Davis CA 95617 530-756-5983 [e-mail]

LWV DIABLO VALLEY CA 500 St. Mary's Road, #14 Lafayette CA 94549 925-283-2235 925-283-2613 [e-mail] http://www.lwvdv.org/

LWV DOWNEY CA P.O. Box 1043 Downey CA 90240-0043 562-927-0874

LWV EAST SAN DIEGO COUNTY CA P.O. Box 683, La Mesa CA 91944-0683 619-562-0634 [e-mail]

Andrew Bliss President LWV EAST SAN GABRIEL VALLEY CA P.O. Box 4242 Coinva CA 91732 626-967-8055 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://esgv.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV EASTERN SIERRA CA P.O. Box 1496 Bishop CA 93514 [e-mail]

LWV EDEN AREA CA P.O. Box 2234 Castro Valley CA 94546 510-582-9568 [e-mail]

LWV EL DORADO COUNTY CA [e-mail]

LWV ESCONDIDO. CA P.O. Box 921, Escondido CA 92033 760-599-3211 [e-mail] voice mail only

LWV FREMONT, NEWARK, UNION CITY CA P.O. Box 3218 Fremont CA 94539 510-794-5783 [e-mail] http://www.lwvfnuc.org/

Tracy Pepper President LWV FRESNO. CA 942 N. Van Ness Fresno CA 93728-3428 559-268-8683 559-268-1930 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://fresno.ca.lwvnet.org/

Chris Carson President LWV GLENDALE/BURBANK CA 7714 Via Capri, Burbank CA 91504 [e-mail] http://gb.ca.lwvnet.org/

Nancy Kay President LWV HUMBOLDT COUNTY. CA P.O. Box 3219 Eureka CA 95502-3219 707-444-9252 707-442-2729 707-444-2275 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvhc.org/vote/

Eileen Barr Director at Large LWV LIVERMORE, AMADOR VALLEY CA P.O. Box 702 Livermore CA 94551-0702 925-443-VOTE 925-828-8978 [e-mail] http://lav.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV LONG BEACH AREA CA 6381 Rochelle Lane Long Beach CA 90815 800-285-3477 [e-mail]

Jane Turnbull Co-Presidents LWV LOS ALTOS/MOUNTAIN VIEW AREA CA 97 Hillview Avenue Los Altos CA 94022-3470 650-941-4846 650-941-4846 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvlamv.org

Cindy O'Connor PRESIDENT LWV LOS ANGELES CA 3250 Wilshire Blvd Suite 1005, Los Angeles CA 90010 213-368-1616 213-368-1615 [e-mail] http://www.lwvlosangeles.org/

Margaret Jones President LWV MARIN COUNTYCA 4340 Redwood Highway F130 San Rafael CA 94903-2121 415-507-0824 415-507-0826 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://lwvmc.marin.org/

LWV MARYSVILLE/YUBA CITY CA 715 E. 21st St. Marysville CA 95901 530-73-6716

LWV MENDOCINO COUNTYCA P.O. Box 913 Albion CA 95410 [e-mail]

LWV MERCED COUNTY CA P.O. Box 2675 Merced CA 95344 209-384-1456 [e-mail]

Marie Bairey President LWV MODESTO. CA P.O. Box E Modesto CA 95352, 209-524-1698 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvmodesto.org/

LWV MONTEREY PENINSULA CA P.O. Box 1995 Monterey CA 93942-1995 831-648-8683 [e-mail] http://www.mbay.net/~lwvmp/

LWV NORTH COAST SAN DIEGO COUNTY CA P.O. Box 131272, Carlsbad CA 92013 760-736-1608 [e-mail] [e-mail]

LWV NORTH ORANGE COUNTY CA P.O. Box 3073 Fullerton CA 92831 714-254-7440 [e-mail]

Marie Baldisseri President/Action LWV NORTH SAN MATEO COUNTY CA P.O. Box 5734 So. San Francisco CA 94083-5734 650-952-2981 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://nsmc.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV NORTHWEST RIVERSIDE COUNTY CA LWV NORTHWEST RIVERSIDE COUNTY CA P.O. Box 20785 Riverside CA 92516-0785 [e-mail]

LWV OAKLAND. CA 1305 Franklin Street, Suite 311 Oakland CA 94612-3222; 510-834-7640 510-834-7640 [e-mail] http://www.lwvoakland.org/

LWV ORANGE COAST CA 949-451-2212 [e-mail]

Sandy Eakins President LWV PALO ALTO CA 457 Kingsley Avenue, Palo Alto CA 94301-3223 650-327-9148 [e-mail] http://www.lwvpaloalto.org/

Ellen Barnes President LWV PALOS VERDES PENINSULA CA P.O. Box 2933 Palos Verdes Peninsula CA 90274 310-784-7787 [e-mail] http://www.palosverdes.com/lwv/

Robbie Davis President LWV PASADENA AREA 1353 N. Hill Avenue Pasadena CA 91104 626-798-0965 626-798-0966 [e-mail] http://www.lwvpasadenaarea.org/

Krys Wulff President LWV PIEDMONTCA [e-mail] http://www.lwvpiedmont.org/

LWV REDDING AREA CA P.O. Box 1463 Redding CA 96099-1463 [e-mail]

LWV REDLANDS CA [e-mail]

LWV RICHMOND AREA. CA 7806 Potrero Ave El Cerrito CA 94530 510-232-3767 [e-mail]

Cathy Geppert President LWV SACRAMENTO. CA 1507 21st Street, Suite 303 Sacramento CA 95814 916-447-8683 916-447-8620 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvsacramento.org/

Anne Herendeen President LWV SALINAS VALLEY. CA P.O. Box 1302, Salinas CA 93902 831-422-2429 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://sv.ca.lwvnet.org/contact.html

Lee Manak President LWV SAN BERNARDINO CA 568 N. Mountain View Ave. #150 San Bernardino CA 92401-1218 909-889-8600 [e-mail] http://lwvsanbernardino.ca.lwvnet.org/

Catherine Stoll Co-President LWV SAN DIEGO. CA 1094 Cudahy Place, Suite 218 San Diego CA 92110 619-275-1147 619-275-1329, [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvsandiego.org/

Tuesday Ray Co-President: LWV SAN FRANCISCO. CA 582 Market Street, Suite 615 San Francisco CA 94104 415-989-8683 415-989-8685 [e-mail] http://www.leagueofwomenvoterssf.org/

Phyllis Morel President LWV SAN JOAQUIN COUNTY CA P.O. Box 4548 Stockton CA 95204 209-465-0293 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://sjc.ca.lwvnet.org/

Virginia Holtz President LWV SAN JOSE/SANTA CLARA CA P.O. Box 5374 San Jose CA 95124 408-271-7163 [e-mail] http://sjsc.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV SAN LUIS OBISPO CA P.O. Box 4210 San Luis Obispo CA 93403 805-595-2241 [e-mail]

LWV SANTA BARBARA CA 328 E. Carillo St. Suite A, Santa Barbara CA 93101 805-965-2422 805-965-2422 [e-mail] http://www.lwvsantabarbara.org/

LWV SANTA CRUZ COUNTY CA P.O. Box 1745, Capitola CA 95010-1745 831-426-8683

LWV SANTA MARIA VALLEY CA P.O. Box 1388 Santa Maria CA 93456 [e-mail]

Karen Carrey President LWV SANTA MONICA CA P.O. Box 1265 Santa Monica CA 90406 310-394-4661 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvsantamonica.org/

LWV SOLANO COUNTY CA [e-mail]

Nancy Richards President LWV SONOMA COUNTY CA 100 E Street, Suite 209, Santa Rosa CA 95404 707-546-5943 707-575-7160 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://sonco.ca.lwvnet.org/
LWV SOUTH SAN MATEO COUNTY CA 800 Alma Street Menlo Park CA 94025 650-325-5780 650-325-2134 [e-mail] http://www.lwvssmc.org/


LWV SOUTHWEST RIVERSIDE COUNTY CA [e-mail]

LWV SOUTHWEST SANTA CLARA VALLEY CA P.O. Box 2865 Saratoga CA 95070-0865 408-867-8683 [e-mail] http://www.lwv-sw-santaclara-valley.org/forsantaclara/

Barbara Barker Co-Presidents LWV TORRANCE. CA P.O. Box 964 Torrance CA 90508 310-618-8711 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://torrance.ca.lwvnet.org/

LWV TULARE COUNTY CA P.O. Box 3011 Visalia CA 93278 [e-mail]

LWV VENTURA COUNTY CA [e-mail] http://www.ez2.net/LWV/

LWV WESTERN NEVADA CO CA P.O. Box 1306 Grass Valley CA 95945 530-265-0956 [e-mail] http://www.nccn.net/~lwvwnc/

LWV WHITTIER CA [e-mail]

LWV WOODLAND. CA P.O. Box 2463 Woodland CA 95776 [e-mail]

LWV Seattle [e-mail] http://seattle.wa.lwv.org/

Sarah McDonald League of Women Voters of Alabama 3357 Cherokee Rd Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwval.org/

Sandy Robinson President League of Women Voters of Auburn 675 Burke Place Auburn AL 36830 334-501-2204 334-821-8639 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwval.org/auburn/index.html

League of Women Voters of Baldwin Co. AL 500 Spanish Ft. Blvd. #133 Spanish Fort AL 36527 251-626-4133 [e-mail]

League of Women Voters of Greater Birmingham AL 3357 Cherokee Road Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] http://www.bham.net/lwvgb/

League of Women Voters of Greater Birmingham AL 3357 Cherokee Road Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] http://www.bham.net/lwvgb/

League of Women Voters of Greater Birmingham AL 3357 Cherokee Road Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] http://www.bham.net/lwvgb/

League of Women Voters of Greater Birmingham AL 3357 Cherokee Road Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] http://www.bham.net/lwvgb/

League of Women Voters of Greater Birmingham AL 3357 Cherokee Road Birmingham AL 35223 205-968-9186 [e-mail] http://www.bham.net/lwvgb/

League of Women Voters of Greater Gadsden AL 224 Azalea Dr. Gadsden AL 35901 256 547-4737 [e-mail]

League of Women Voters of Mobile AL 138 Florence Place Mobile AL 36607 251-660-2725 [e-mail] [e-mail]<BR>

League of Women Voters of Mobile AL 138 Florence Place Mobile AL 36607 251-660-2725 [e-mail] [e-mail]

League of Women Voters of Montgomery AL 107 Truett Drive Montgomery AL 36105 334-264-2362 [e-mail]

League of Women Voters of Tuscaloosa AL 5 Bellview Drive Tuscaloosa AL 35405 205-758-4604 [e-mail]

Cheryl Jebe League of Women Voters ALASKA 6520 N. Douglas Highway Juneau AK 99801-9405 907-586-2690 907-586-5604 [e-mail]

Nancy Sonafrank Tanana Valley League of Women Voters AK P.O. Box 71974 Fairbanks AK 99707 [e-mail] http://www.ptialaska.net/~lwv/

Gini McGirr LWV of Arizona 49 East Thomas Road #102 Phoenix AZ 85012-0000 [phone] [phone] [e-mail] http://www.azvoterservice.org/

Lu Kembel League of Women Voters of Greater Tucson AZ 630N Craycroft, Suite 208 Tucson AZ 85711 520-327-7652 520-326-6655 [e-mail] http://community.azstarnet.com/lwvtucson/

The League of Women Voters of Metro Phoenix AZ 49 E. Thomas Rd. #102 Phoenix AZ 85012 602-604-9148 602-604-9150 [e-mail] http://www.lwvaz.org/lwvmp_htm.htm

Stephanie Johnson LWV of Arkansas The Executive Building 2020 West Third, #504 Little Rock AR 72205-0000 501-376-7760 501-376-7760 [e-mail] http://www.lwv-arkansas.org/

KATHLEEN OLESON CO-PRESIDENT League of Women Voters of Pulaski County AR 3225 Kavanaugh Blvd. Little Rock AR 72205 501-664-2351 501 - 664-1136 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.aristotle.net/~lwvpc/

Lorie Young LWV of Colorado 1410 Grant Street, #B-204 Denver CO 80203-0000 303-863-0437 303-837-9917 [e-mail] http://www.members.aol.com/lwvco/

Betty Culp The League of Women Voters of ADAMS COUNTY, COLORADO [phone] [e-mail]

The League of Women Voters of Boulder Valley CO P.O. Box 1534, Boulder CO 80306 303-499-4544 http://bcn.boulder.co.us/lwv/

The League of Women Voters of Denver CO 1980 Dahlia Street <CR><LF>Denver CO 80220 [phone] [phone] [e-mail] http://www.members.aol.com/lwvden/

League of Women Voters of Larimer County CO 305 W. Magnolia St. #106 Fort Collins CO 80521 970-416-5873 http://www.fortnet.org/lwv/

League of Women Voters of the Pikes Peak Region CO P. O. Box 7888 North End Station Colorado Springs CO 80933 719.447.9400 [e-mail] http://www.lwvppr.org/

Gretchen Swibold The League of Women Voters Of Canton, Connecticut P.O. Box 1021 Canton CT 06019 693-4276 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/canton/

Elizabeth Giardino THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF CHESHIRE CT P.O. BOX 394 Cheshire CT 06410 203-699-5455 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/cheshire/

The League of Women Voters Darien CT PO Box 103, Darien CT 06820 [e-mail] http://lwv.darien.org/

Elise Low President The League of Women Voters of East Shore, Connecticut P.O. Box 195 Guilford CT 06437-0195 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/lwveastshore/

League of Women Voters of Fairfield CT 333 Berwick Avenue Fairfield CT 06432 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/fairfield/

Karen Rosen President The League of Women Voters of Greater Hartford CT PO Box 270191 West Hartford CT 06127-0191 [e-mail] http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/lwvgh/page1frames.htm

Rosemarie Skoglund President League of Women Voters of Greater Middletown CT PO Box 886 Middletown CT 06457 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/grmiddletown/INDEX.html

Joyce Young President League of Women Voters of Greenwich CT P O Box 604 Greenwich CT 06836-0604 [phone] http://www.lwvct.org/greenwich/

Louise Brundage Co-Presidents LWV Hamden CT [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/lwvhamden/

Marie Wallace Acting President LWV of Litchfield County, Connecticut Box 606 Litchfield CT 06759 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/litchfield/

June Damon President LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS MANSFIELD, CONNECTICUT 32 Fellen Road Storrs CT 06268 429-8796 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/lwvmansfield/

LWV of Monroe, CT http://www.lwvct.org/monroe/index.htm

NEW BRITAIN AREA LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS CT [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/lwvnba/

The League of Women Voters of New Haven CT 341 Crown Street New Haven CT 06511 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/newhaven/

Doreen Green The League of Women Voters of Norwalk, Connecticut P.O. Box 644 Norwalk CT 06852 [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/norwalk/

Kathi Jones The League of Women Voters of Redding, Connecticut 938-9136 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/redding/

The League of Women Voters of Stamford, Connecticut [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/lwvstamford/

Kathleen Failla President THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF WESTON CT [e-mail] http://members.aol.com/LWVWeston/top.html

Katy Goldschmidt The League of Women Voters of Westport CT P.O. Box 285 Westport CT 06880-0285 [e-mail] http://www.lwvwestportct.org/

Donna Conway President Wilton League of Women Voters CT [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/wilton/

The League of Women Voters of Windsor, Connecticut [e-mail] http://www.lwvct.org/windsor/

Terry McCoy LWV Of Ohio 17 South High st, Suite 650 Columbus Ohio 43215-3413 614-469-1505 614-469-7918 [e-mail]

Terry McCoy LWV Of Ohio 17 South High st, Suite 650 Columbus Ohio 43215-3413 614-469-1505 614-469-7918 [e-mail]

Joyce Johnson LWV of Delaware 2400 W 17th St. Clash Wing Wilmington DE 19806-1311 302-571-8948 302-571-8948 [e-mail] http://de.lwv.org/

Ellen Wasfi Vice President: League of Women Voters Greater Dover DE [phone] [e-mail] http://go.to/lwvgd

Carol Jones President The League of Women Voters of Sussex County 227-1301 [e-mail] http://www.de.lwv.org/sussex.html

Frances Gemmill LWV of District of Columbia 733 15th Street, NW Suite 432 Washington DC 20005-2112 202-347-3020 202-347-2522 [e-mail] http://www.dcwatch.com/lwvdc/

Caroline Emmons-Schramm LWV of Florida 540 Beverly Court Tallahassee FL 32301-2506 850-224-2545 850-222-4485 [e-mail] http://www.naples.net/presents/lwvf/

League Of Women Voters of Bay County, Florida P.O. Box 1813 Panama City FL 32402 [e-mail] http://members.tripod.com/~baylwv/index.htm

Hazel (Petey) Kaletta President League of Women Voters of Broward County FL PO Box 15733 Plantation FL 33318 954-735-1311 [e-mail] http://www.lwvbcfl.org/

Claire MacMillan President League of Women Voters Collier County, Florida 660 9th Street North Suite 35-B Naples FL 34102 239/263-4656 239/263-4656 http://www.naples.net/presents/lwvcc/

Julie Brown President LWV Hillsborough Co FL P.O. Box 13186 Tampa FL 33681-3186 [phone] [e-mail] http://www.communitydirect.net/lwvhc/

Myrna Strain President The League of Women Voters Jacksonville, Florida 216 East Duval Street Jacksonville FL 32202-2794 904-355-8683 [e-mail] http://tdg.com/lwvjfc/

Carol Barclay President League of Women Voters Lee County FL 239-278-1032 [e-mail]

Peg McGarity President League of Women Voters of Manatee County FL P. O. Box 1511 Bradenton FL 34206 [phone] [e-mail] http://lwvoter.tripod.com/

League of Women Voters Palm Beach County, Florida P.O. Box 757 Delray Beach FL 33447-0757 P.O . Box 2564 West Palm Beach FL 33402 561-276-4898 561-965-4577 [e-mail] http://www.lwvpbc.org/

Ginny Tarika President The League of Women Voters of Sarasota County FL 3575 Webber Street, #105 Sarasota FL 34239 [phone] [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwv-sarasota-fl.org/

The League of Women Voters of the Space Coast P.O. Box 360823 Melbourne FL 32936-0823 [e-mail] http://www.geocities.com/lwv-spacecoast/

League of Women Voters St Petersburg FL [e-mail] http://members.ij.net/league/

The League of Women Voters of Tallahassee FL [e-mail] http://fn1.tfn.net/lwvt/

Elisabeth MacNamara LWV of Georgia PO Box 29751 Atlanta GA 30359-0781 678-547-0755 678-547-0756 [e-mail] http://www.lwvga.org/index.htm

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF ATHENS/CLARKE COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 48655 Athens GA 30604-8655 http://www.lwvga.org/athens/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF ATLANTA/FULTON COUNTY (Georgia) 75 Piedmont Avenue NE Suite 348 Atlanta GA 30303-2509 404/577-8683 404/577-1882 [e-mail] http://www.lwvga.org/fulton/

Melinda Rider President LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF AUGUSTA (Georgia) P.O. Box 3373 Augusta GA 30914-3373 [phone] [e-mail] http://www.lwvga.org/augusta/

Dr. Lucille Garmon President LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF CARROLLTON/CARROLL COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 1014 Carrollton GA 30117-1014 http://www.lwvga.org/carroll/

LEAGUE of WOMEN VOTERS of the DALTON AREA (Georgia) P.O. Box 854 Dalton GA 30722 http://www.lwvga.org/dalton/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF DEKALB COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 2176 Decatur GA 30031 404/321-0913 http://www.lwvga.org/dekalb/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF MACON (Georgia) P.O. Box 7341 Macon GA 31209 http://www.lwvga.org/macon/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF MARIETTA/COBB COUNTY (Georgia) 4593 Savage Drive Marietta GA 30066 770/592-0625 http://www.lwvga.org/cobb/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF ROCKDALE COUNTY (Georgia) 55 Ashley Drive Oxford GA 30054 http://www.lwvga.org/rockdale/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF SAVANNAH/CHATHAM COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 14346 Savannah GA 31416 http://www.lwvga.org/chatham/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF TOWNS COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 1065 Hiawassee GA 30546 http://www.lwvga.org/towns/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF WHITE COUNTY (Georgia) P.O. Box 2510 Cleveland GA 30528 http://www.lwvga.org/white/

Maile Bay LWV of Hawaii 49 South Hotel St. #314 Honolulu HI 96813 808-531-7448 808-599-5669 [e-mail] http://hi.lwv.org/index.html

Elinor Chehey LWV of Idaho 2705 North 32nd. St. Boise ID 83703 208-343-8018 [e-mail]

League of Women Voters of Kootenai County 765-5813 667-2229 http://www.nicon.org/lwv/

League of Women Voters of the Lewiston Area P.O. Box 1015 Lewiston Idaho 83501-1015 http://www.syringa.net/lwvl/default.htm

Karen Falke President League of Women Voters of Moscow, Idaho PO Box 9535 Moscow ID 83843 [phone] [e-mail] http://community.palouse.net/lwvm/

Barbara Lippai LWV of Illinois 332 South Michigan Ave. #1050 Chicago IL 60604-4301 312-939-5935 312-939-6887 [e-mail] http://www.lwvil.org/

League of Women Voters of Chicago IL 332 South Michigan Ave. Suite 1050 Chicago IL 60604 312-939-5935 [e-mail] http://www.lwvchicago.org/

LWV Crystal Lake/Cary IL P.O. Box 57 Crystal Lake IL 60039 http://www.lwvmchenrycty.org/crystal.htm

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS GLEN ELLYN, ILLINOIS P.O. Box 2391 Glen Ellyn IL 60138-2391 [e-mail]

Jo Ann Kelly President League of Women Voters of Grosse Pointe MI 32 Lakeshore Drive Grosse Pointe Farms MI 48236 313-882-4295 [e-mail] http://community.mlive.com/cc/lwvgp

League of Women Voters of Highland Park IL PO Box 396 Highland Park IL 60035 [phone] http://www.highlandpark.org/lwvhp/

The League of Women Voters Lake Forest/Lake Bluff Area Gorton Community Center 400 East Illinois Road Lake Forest IL 60045 [phone] [e-mail] http://lfkhome.northstarnet.org/lwvlflb/index.html

Kathy Balderson McDonough County IL League of Women Voters [e-mail] http://www.macomb.com/~mcleague/

Paula Bowman League of Women Voters® of Northwest Wayne County MI PO Box 51502 Livonia MI 48151 734-421-4420 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.nwwayne.mi.lwvnet.org/

GIGI MOORE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS -- PARK FOREST AREA IL P.O. BOX 782 PARK FOREST IL 60466 http://www.lincolnnet.net/users/lrlwvpfa/

Edith Dallinger LWV of Indiana 5610 Crawfordsville Rd #709 Indianapolis IN 46224 317-241-8683 317-241-8740 [e-mail] http://www.lwvin.org/
League of Women Voters of Bloomington and Monroe County IN PO Box 5592 Bloomington IN 47407 [phone] [e-mail] http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lwv/

The League of Women Voters of Elkhart County IN 574-264-2860 574-262-0092 [e-mail] http://www.lwvec.org/

League of Women Voters Greater Lafayette In [e-mail] http://wcic.org/lwv/

LWV of Indianapolis 3808 N. Meridian Indianapolis IN 46208 317-767-4187 [e-mail] http://www.indygov.org/lwv/

Patricia Jensen LWV of Iowa P.O. Box 93775 Des Moines IA 50393-3775 515-777-9739 [e-mail] http://www.lwvia.org/

Linda Kirchhoff LWV Jasper County, IA 741W. 11th St. S Newton IA 50208 515/792-9837 http://www.lwvia.org/jasper/

Linda Levey LWV Johnson County IA [e-mail] http://www.lwvjc.org/

Stephanie Fawkes-Lee LWV of Metropolitan Des Moines PO Box AM Des Moines IA 50302 [e-mail] [e-mail] http://www.lwvmdm.org/

Janis McMillen LWV of Kansas 919 1/2 S. Kansas Avenue Topeka KS 66612-0000 785-234-5152 785-234-0818 [e-mail] http://www.lwvk.org/

Cathy Hoy President League of Women Voters of Emporia KS [e-mail] http://68.99.112.216/lwve/

LWV Johnson County, Kansas [e-mail] http://home.att.net/~lwvjc/

LWV Lawrence/Douglas County KS PO Box 1072 Lawrence KS 66044 [phone] [e-mail] http://community.lawrence.com/LeagueWomenVoters/

Debbie Nuss President LWV The League of Women Voters of Manhattan / Riley County KS [e-mail] http://lwv.manhattanks.org/

Cheryl Jebe 6520 N. Douglas Highway League of Women Voters - Alaska 6520 N. Douglas Highway Juneau AK 99801 907-586-2690 907-586-5604 [e-mail]

Joan Peoples LWV of Kentucky 1009 Twilight Trail Suburban Park Bldg D Ste. 103 Frankfort KY 40601-0000 502-875-6481 502-875-6481 [e-mail] http://www.lwvky.org/

Joan Peoples LWV of Berea and Madison County KY P.O. Box 254 Berea KY 40403 [e-mail] http://lwvbmc.iclub.org/

LWV of Hardin County KY [phone] [e-mail] http://www.lwvky.org/lwvhc/

Deborah Kent President LWV of Louisville and Jefferson County KY 115 South Ewing Avenue Louisville KY [phone] http://www.lwvky.org/lwvjc/

Jean Armstrong LWV of Louisiana 728 North Blvd. Baton Rouge LA 70802-0000 800-288-8683 225-344-3326 [e-mail] http://www.lwvla.org/

LWV Baton Rouge, LA [e-mail] http://www.lwvbr.org/

Kathie Boyett President League of Women Voters Caddo Bossier LA P.O. Box 4631 Shreveport LA 71134-0631 [e-mail] http://www.lwvcb.org/

LWV of Jefferson Parish, LA [e-mail] http://www.lwv-jeff.org/

Nena Menard League Of Women Voters of Lake Charles LA 337-474-1864 [e-mail] http://www.lwv-lc.org/

LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF NEW ORLEANS 234 Loyola Suite 421 NEW ORLEANS LA 70112 [phone] [e-mail] http://www.gnofn.org/~lwvno/

Ann Luther LWV of Maine P.O. Box 863 Augusta ME 04332-0863 207-622-0256 207-729-8292 [e-mail] http://www.curtislibrary.com/lwv/

Judy Morenoff LWV of Maryland 106 B South Street Annapolis MD 21401-2624 410-269-0232 410-268-7301 [e-mail] http://www.bcpl.net/~lwv

[BevHarris]

7. Dick Cheney and Deibold -- (Repeat: Please get involved)

The LWV approach is of critical importance. Please do a little something...

Here's something contributed by Phoebe:

Cheney @ Diebold fundraiser July 1, 2003
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/local/6209023.htm

"Cheney arrived in Akron after a stop in Grand Rapids, Mich., where he raised $500,000, according to campaign spokeswoman Cathie Martin.

"...The event was organized by Arshinkoff and his wife, Karen, the Brennans and Walden W. O'Dell, chairman and chief executive of Diebold Inc. in Green.

By the way, one of my inside sources at Diebold says the voting division is unusual in that it gets to bypass the normal chain of command (which was Wes Vance, killed in a plane crash a couple months ago) -- my reports are that Bob Urosevich, CEO of Diebold Election Systems, does his business directly with Wally O'Dell.

Let's get the League of Women Voters to flip on this one, folks.

Bev Harris

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Zan_of_Texas]

24. thanks

The moderator removed my accidental duplicate posts. Thanks!

[Zan_of_Texas]

20. Good catch, Phoebe!

Also of note in that article:

"... the reception hall at the Hilton was populated with about 250 of the Akron-Canton area's wealthiest and most influential executives, among them W.R. "Tim" Timken, chairman of the Timken Co. ..."

Timken is chair of the board of Diebold.

http://www.diebold.com/news/newsdisp.asp?id=2953

[BevHarris]

8. Things are moving, they are moving...

Heard that Bill Moyers has assigned a researcher to this.

Heard that King County, Washington somehow (wonder how?) had someone there "discover" that there were, surprise surprise, a few "security holes" in their Diebold election system. This amazing event just caused them to set up a new task force. Could it have anything to do with this? http://www.blackboxvoting.org/access-diebold.htm

What they don't know is this: There is more to come.

Bev

[Cocoa]

12. whatever happened to that list of endorsements?

A while ago there was a brainwashing session where people suggested names that would be good to get to write blurbs for your book.

I think Moyers was among them. Did any of these people give feedback on their advance copies?

I hope you dind't take my suggestion of Ed MacMahon as a joke. His face on anything adds instant credibility, imo.

[Cocoa]

14. sorry, freudian slip alert!

I meant brainstorming, not brainwashing.

Off to report a bug, how can my editing time be expired already?

[Fud]

28. Bev i believed in you for a long time

But you obviously are a writer and not a coder and have other people do the work for you.Even on you own site you sell ways to spam message boards to make money. http://www.talion.com/dudley-1.htm
Check that url if you don't believe me.

Then there is this http://www.talion.com/bookmarket.htm and also the selling of "Clinton cigars"

I'm only posting this because you went out of your way to try and smear me buy saying i hacked into your machine.If you knew anything about unix systems and how to use it you would know i wasn't even there(nevermind the bull about makefiles when you don't know what you are talking about).

You started the first blow so i am showing others here your motivation since you don't know code from braile or morse code.

There are way more qualified people to look into this issue IMO.

So i like the sunshine to shed light on the touchscreen systems as everyone else does and i posted those links to shed some light (which are on your site in public btw)and it wasn't penetrated duh!!A simple google search brings them up.

[HFishbine]

9. Local Action Taken in Guilford County, NC

Bev,

I sent an e-mail to the directors of the local League. So far, I have received only one reply from a director who expressed concern that a paper trail could be used by a voter to prove that he voted a certain way in order to collect a pay-off.

This is not what HR2239 would do, however. It would create a paper trail that would be first verified by the voter then kept by election officials to be used in the event of a manual audit. The paper trail would never leave the polling place.

I gently explained this to the director, and encouraged her to read the bill and keep thinking about it.

The text of the bill can be found at:

http://www.acm.org/usacm/PDF/HR2239_Holt_Bill.pdf

[BevHarris]

15. Way to go, HFishbine -- they've been given talking points,

which you skillfully debunked.

Reminder: A set of talking points, provided by vested interests, tries to argue against voter-verified paper ballots by claiming people will try to buy the votes. As I wrote earlier on Black Box Voting, we are talking about putting the ballot in a ballot box, as we have done for 200 years, not creating Post-it receipts that we stick on our foreheads while we go looking for someone to give us twenty bucks.

By the way, a "receipt" given to a voter to take home wouldn't help in an audit anyway. To audit whether the total count was accurate you'd have to go around town trying to find all those receipts.

We are talking about a paper ballot, printed by the machine, which the voter verifies and then puts in a ballot box.

Great job, and let's keep moving on this.

Bev Harris

[PATRICK]

21. Beaufort County, SC dilemma

Seems that thge cute federal "aid" ties them to purchasing only from one company rather than diversifying. Does that mean one of the suspect companies? Otherwise they are stuck with a whopping unfunded mandate, both oprtions against their will. In the Beaufort Gazette there were NO details about names of companies or other issues than the money and choice.

Sounds like someone there might need broadening of horizons. Also the Internet voting project will up the ante to 100,000 "test" votes in several states. What is curious is how these could be key states and ones with "problems" like Florida.

With glitchy expensive and hard to staff machinery maybe the shift to the invisible voter is the Final Solution already in prgress, their main boast of course "Security". I think identifiable intentions and/or fraud CAN be proven by following the people trail IF some iron willed prosecutor can brave the political waters. But if things keep getting shifted to machines and electrons...

At work we shifted to scanning machines from hands on care and the results were dramatic. A total disconnect from care and responsibility
in the attitude of management. Service somehow declines, machine fail, but so what? "I" am not responsible anymore! And the machines eat and misdirect the product- as our union warned.

I wrote a letter to the LWV rep in Albany, NY, keeping my concerns simple. You are right, the burden of proof should be on the sellers of this product and we are getting blown off with "assurances" by the "sold" unknowledgeable people. Still, I think the slow building fire breaks out the wildest. Diebold still inching up smugly in the markets, despite one institution bailing on them recently. A little barometer of mine. Eventually I think the alarm will spell the end for almost all the questionable machines well before 2004.

If the "smoking gun" skyhigh bar of proof is not in the program files it might be combined with the testimony of insiders themselves added to analysis of performance patterns and vote discrepancies.

[angka]

10. the key counter-argument

for this position that individual voter-verifiable paper records are not necessary—is to elucidate how, in elections where these DREs have been used already, so many huge irregularities have occured.

"It has been suggested that DRE machines are inherently subject to fraud unless there is an individual paper record of each vote. This seems extreme. DREs are extremely sophisticated machines and most DREs store information in multiple formats and in multiple places within its program. To tamper with a DRE someone would need to know each and every format and storage capacity and be able to manipulate it undetected."

their argument boils down to the fact that electronic systems can record massive amounts of disparately input data with precise accuracy. they need to understand, with its historical underpinnings, the disturbing possibility of precise inaccuracy. that these and other investigations have found DRE-driven elections, in fact, to be wide open to the sort of manipulation they claim is impossible with such a sophisticated system. that realization changes the nature of the argument completely, and makes things like multiple, voter-verifiable, and technologically unsophisticated auditable records sound like quite reasonable proposals.

[TinfoilHatProgrammer]

13. you really throw the word "exposing" around too much

Technically you're just "advertising" their position, or even "criticizing" it. "Exposing" is a little strong, it's debatable whether you can "expose" their public, non-secret position at all.

I'm curious whether you have an attribution for your quote that voting machine vendors will "wear us down". From multiple sources, as indicated in your post. Did all voting machine vendors announce that, or just the evil ones?

Finally, and this is mostly just semantic quibbling, unless they're ignoring and failing to respond to more than just you it's a bit misleading to report that they're ignoring "people". That's just unfounded extrapolation without some supporting evidence. Maybe they just think you (specifically) are a crackpot. This needs more investigation. I'll call them to see if they answer, and report back.

JC

[donsu]

22. kick

nt

[nolabels]

23. Thanks Bev

Searched the web for black box voting.
Results 1 - 10 of about 237,000. Search took 0.45 seconds



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=black+box+voting

I want to watch them wear down the internet, this could be fun to watch

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:4IoSU2QTHWcJ:www.funny--pictures.com/you_know_youve_had_too_much_coffee_when.html+too+much+of+funny+pictures&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
(snip)
You Know Youve Had Too Much Coffee When

Juan Valdez names his donkey after you.

You get a speeding ticket even when you're parked.

You grind your coffee beans in your mouth.

You sleep with your eyes open.

You watch videos in fast-forward.

You lick your coffeepot clean.

Your eyes stay open when you sneeze.

The nurse needs a scientific calculator to take your pulse.
(SNIP)

[alaine]

25. Kick.

[hedda_foil]

26. kick!

[mitchum]

27. kick