How can US planes indiscriminatingly drop bombs on Iraqi villages & people

[LaPera]

still believe the corporate media, when they announce that the US warplanes only killed "insurgents" and no innocent civilians?

Are people that gullible, non-caring and believing of the lying republican owned corporate media?

U.S. warplanes and helicopters bombed two western villages, killing an estimated 70 militants near a site where five American soldiers died in a weekend roadside blast, the military said Monday. Residents said at least 39 of the dead were civilians.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/10/17/international/i060147D92.DTL

[Karenina]

1. They tell the crews to deploy

load up the planes, take off the runway, circle the location, press a button then fly back to base.

[NNN0LHI]

9. And then drink beer and congratulate each other for being so brave n/t

[htuttle]

2. "It's easy. You just don't lead them as much."

What I'm saying is that's it's gotten to be old hat for the US military. Been standard practice (but always denied) since at least the Spanish-American War, anyway.

Who ever thought the phrase 'collateral damage' was an acceptable concept, anyway? The very idea of 'collateral damage' is against international law (doesn't matter if it 's an 'accident' or not -- you're supposed to ensure that only combatants get killed).

Yet we use the phrase, and blink past the realities, all the time. For many decades.

Now think of the whole concept behind the nuclear standoff of the Cold War. Under what circumstances, and what sort of ethic, would killing billions of non-combatants, and devastating the biosphere, be any sort of option at all? Yet it was our standing war plan for decades...

It's a form of madness, I think.

[Journeyman]

4. Odd, that we should both be drawn to that chilling phrase. . .

so incongruous to the moment, so appropos to what's beginning to transpire.

(See my post #3)

[htuttle]

7. It's seemed unfortunately appropriate for the question

I noticed that too.

[Uncle Bob]

16. A little more behind, please:

"(...)since at least the Spanish-American War, anyway."

Ummm.. I guess wiping out scores of native-americans that just wouldn't give up their land doesn't register. After all, back then, you couldn't "lead" them. You know, crappy primitive rifles and stuff...

[Journeyman]

3. It goes back to attitudes fostered in Vietnam . . .

when the belief was, anyone killed while running was by default a communist. Now, insurgents are recognized by their proximity to exploding ordnance.


"How can you shoot women and children?" the helicopter-riding grunt was asked in Michael Herr's Dispatches.

"Easy," came the quick reply. "You just don't lead 'em as much."

[htuttle]

5. The Philippine massacres under MacArthur, Hiroshima, Dresden...

...it goes a lot farther back than Vietnam.

[Journeyman]

11. I quite agree, the problem predates our experiences . . .

however, it was the image of a limited attack from the air -- using "precision" bombardment and helicopter gunships -- that made me think of Vietnam.

[gratuitous]

6. If a person ran, you shot him because he was a Commie

If he didn't run, you shot him because he was a well-disciplined Commie.

[Disturbed]

10. It is a lesson to the Iraqis.

Support any Insurgents and you risk having your dwelling blown up,you being killed or maimed or any of your relatives or friends, as well. Recently, thousands of Iraqi residents in a city fled that city because the US troops were coming in to rid that city of Insurgents. The lesson of Fallujah has been learned.

[htuttle]

12. That is part of the lie we tell ourselves about how we fight wars now

It goes, "If a government, or insurgency, is 'bad', then those who are deemed to be supporting it are culpable for it's actions, whether they are supporting willingly it or not."

That was what we told ourselves after destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki. "The Japanese people should have overthrown the Emperor's government." Since they didn't, it was 'okay' (ethically acceptable) for us to kill them in the course of beating their government (never mind the fact that such a rebellion against the Emperor would have been literally unthinkable, and certainly most improbable).

Think about our 'posture' toward North Korea, for example. If they attack South Korea, it's pretty common knowledge that the US military plans on nuking North Korea. Never mind the fact that most would consider North Koreans to be 'victims' of their government. Our 'new' ethic still considers them responsible for somehow 'allowing' a military dictatorship to run the country for the last half century.

Of course, that same type of "ethic of collective responsibility" logically allows someone to plow airliners into skyscrapers in reaction to actions of the US government overseas, but you aren't supposed to use logic -- it's the Devil's tool!

[Nihil]

15. Thank you Donald Rumsfeld!

> "It is a lesson to the Iraqis."

Sure, it's a lesson on how the US Air Force views civilians.

> Support any Insurgents and you risk having your dwelling blown up,
> you being killed or maimed or any of your relatives or friends,
> as well.

Simply being Iraqi means you "risk having your dwelling blown up, you
being killed or maimed or any of your relatives or friends, as well".

> Recently, thousands of Iraqi residents in a city fled that city
> because the US troops were coming in to rid that city of Insurgents.

Recently, thousands of Iraqi residents fled their city because of the
public warning that the US was about to commit another war-crime.
No one seems to have issued any United Nations resolutions condemning
the event so I guess it's as OK as the Darfur slaughter ...

> The lesson of Fallujah has been learned.

Which one was that? Always baste your mercenaries or they'll catch?

The sad thing is that many Americans will genuinely believe your
sarcastic comments and hold them up as admirable statements.

[400Years]

8. well how else do you wage genocide?

[TahitiNut]

13. Dontcha know them "smart bombs" have the JudgeAndJury software ...

... version 43.5 (with all the WWJD extensions!) installed? The only folks they kill deserve killing. As God is their programmer, them bombs are worth all the taxpayer money paid for 'em.
:sarcasm:

[Greyhound]

14. Yes Virginia, people are that gullible,

non-caring and believing of the lying republican owned corporate media.
This is the history of mankind. There is no such thing as a war without civilians being murdered.
But as long as people don't know what war really is they'll continue to buy the patriotic bullshit and send their children off to be slaughtered and to slaughter others children.

[Disturbed]

17. Nihil, my remarks were not sarcasm at all.

I believe that is exactly how the US Military operates. Fear is the motivator. "When you have them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow." ( I forgot who said that during the Vietnam Invasion.)