note to america: about this "attack on christmas" thing

[enki23]

Brace yourselves: businesses don't say "happy holidays" to appease the atheists. There, I said it. And even o'reilly isn't far enough off his rocker to believe otherwise.

Businesses say "happy holidays" to avoid offending the following:

Jews
Hindus
Muslims
Confucists
Shintoists
Jehovah's Witnesses
Buddhists
Zoroastrians
Sikhs
Jainists
Baha'i (ists?)
and oh we can go on, and on and on and...

You know who's attacking christmas? CAPITALISM is "attacking" christmas, you clowns. And some attack, at that.

The "secularist" (ie. "atheist/agnostic") market in this nation is vanishingly small. Your retailers don't give a damn about us. They care about all the other believers a hell of a lot more. So when you bitch about an "attack on christmas," you're just bitching about big business playing to a religiously diverse market. Mr. o'reilly, and all the other pandering assholes blame atheists (and the atheist-sounding "secularists") for one reason. They blame us because we make such a universally appealing target to damned near the entire list you see above you. It's not because we have much of a goddamned thing to do with KMart having a "holiday sale."

They blame us because they know it doesn't play well in the media to blame "the Jews." That's all.

Happy Holidays, you goddamned buffoons.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

1. But don't you know? Only CHRISTIANS deserve to be recognized.

All other religions are false. Geesh.

:sarcasm::sarcasm:

Crazy fundies.....

:crazy::crazy:

[RC]

16. And even most Christian religions are false.

Just ask them. :evilgrin:

[Ladyhawk]

42. LOL!

:spray:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

57. Too true, too true.

:D :D

[hvn_nbr_2]

36. Yes, all those "religions" in the OP are alternate names for Satan-worship

For the irony-impaired: :sarcasm:

[tx_dem41]

2. Spot-on! n/t

[Bill McBlueState]

3. wow, this is excellent

You've summed up all the half-formed thoughts I've been trying to have for the last month and said them better than I could. Thanks!

[Ladyhawk]

43. I agree! An especially well-thought-out and well-written post.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Here's the good part --

Most people of those faiths don't take offense anyway. Without exception, they would understand the sentiment and say "thank you" or something like it. Christians who say "Happy Holidays" do so as a gesture of friendship. Or, as it's sometimes known, "Christian love".

This whole mass whining fit is purely a great, big, steaming pile of neo-conservative "Christian" (sic) political poo. No Christian who "walks the walk" would be so arrogant as to demand shopkeepers say "Merry Christmas".

--p!

[Wheezy]

11. You said it!

No Christian who "walks the walk" would be so arrogant as to demand shopkeepers say "Merry Christmas".

Exactly!

As a christian, I want to be inoffensive, and frankly I'm thrilled when shopkeepers don't assume what holidays I keep.

[havocmom]

5. A-friggin-men!

:applause:

[frylock]

6. what about the saddamists?

How about the Rejectionists? No love for them?

[Aimah]

7. I'm not sure if they care about other religions at all.

I think they care more about the cost of having to print Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas marketing. They can put out Happy Holidays marketing right after Holloween to take advantage of early Christmas shoppers. I worked at a company that tried one year to print out Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka, and Happy Kwanza marketing. The following year they went to Happy Holidays.

[CottonBear]

8. Thank you! Excellent post! My feelings exactly!

:kick:

[lvx35]

9. that needed to be said.

recommended. Simple, but needs to be heard.

[seabeyond]

10. question. if youa re atheist, why would you use goddamn

????????????

in a quandry

[enki23]

12. gosh, i hope you find your way out alright

at least i took out all the "fuck"s and "fucking"s. and in spite of the fact that i'm not a virgin.

[seabeyond]

18. fuck i dont care either way. but i would think the word

goddamn would be empty and a word that would have absolute no meaning. where as the word fuck, especially since you are not a virgin is relevent and a reality, wink

[Zenlitened]

25. I've also heard atheists talk about "sunrise" and "sunset."

What idiots! They must believe that the sun orbits the earth!

[seabeyond]

27. what does that have to do with anything???

:shrug:

[Bill McBlueState]

22. hey, I liked it with the salty language.

but at least the "goddamned buffoons" part is still there. :evilgrin:

[darkmaestro019]

24. Habit. I'm a Satanist and I use it, though I'm trying very hard to stop.

it's ubiquitous as an amplifier in English. I'm trying to make substitutions for goddamn, god, Jesus, and for chrissakes, but it's really very hard to do. Years of ear-acclimation and habit to get over. "God" in particular is difficult to avoid, at, ahem, certain violently stimulated times. (smile) I suppose as long as you don't specify WHICH god... : )

[seabeyond]

30. bah hahahah on the ahem part. hey

so how can a atheist be a satanist. wouldnt you need the polarity of god to worship satan, ergo void atheist?

[Lilith Velkor]

34. No

One would follow Satan's example and worship oneself. It's about being your own God.

[seabeyond]

35. interesting, thanks. n/t

[MissB]

29. It is just a word.

It doesn't glorify a god.

[seabeyond]

31. yes it is just a word. but..... it validates a god, glorify or not. n/t

[MissB]

32. When I say it, I'm saying it

"gawddamn it". Doesn't that make it alright?

[seabeyond]

33. from my point of view, nothing makes it right or wrong. n/t

[KnaveRupe]

40. An Xtian I used to spar with years ago...

heard me singing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" along with the muzak at work one day.

She immediately jumped on me - "GOD rest ye merry gentlemen? Are you singing about GOD, Mr. Atheist?!"

I calmly informed her that a few minutes earlier I had been singing "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer", but I did not worship the little flying bastard as my lord and savior.

Moral - To say that utterance of the word "god" implies acknowledgement of his existence is as silly as saying that uttering the word "santa" implies acknowledgement of HIS existence.

I acknowledge Yahweh/Jesus/HolyGhost only as a literary/mythological character - like Thor or Zeus or Ishtar or Ra.

I don't disparage others for their beliefs; they just make no sense to me personally.

[Ladyhawk]

46. As a classically-trained singer, I sing a lot of "sacred" classical music.

That doesn't mean I believe a word of what I'm saying. Like you pointed out, it's just as realistic to me as Rudolph and Santa, yet I sometimes sing about them, too. :shrug:

And to me, it was very very freeing to be able to say "goddammit" or "god damn it." As a kid, I had to walk a very narrow path, could only listen to "Christian" music, could only associate with other fundies. God help me--heh heh--if I should ever use a swear word. Hell, I got beaten for saying the word "bod."

So, I say goddammit to celebrate my freedom from superstition and it feels goddamn good. :)

[seabeyond]

50. what was the problem with bod

i have been reading your posts for a while. an interesting journey you have had. i always appreciate you perceptions with religion. you were smack in the middle of it

[Ladyhawk]

66. I think it boils down to two things:

1. My father was in a bad mood or needed to take out his aggression on someone.

2. My cousin and I were watching a Tarzan movie on TV. I remarked that Tarzan had a nice bod. My father didn't want me lusting after the flesh, so he told me I shouldn't be using language like that, took me in the back bedroom and used his belt on me.

I was never entirely certain what would set off my father. He was very strange.

[seabeyond]

67. thank you for sharing ladyhawk

my father was not very strange and a good good father, but..... about 11 there had been a fight outside with neigbors and brothers. we came in all excited and i was telling my dad, and i said whatshisname. and he slapped me. one and only time my father slapped me. though he used the belt on me once when my mom told him to. my parents used belts. i got the belt seldom. i know lots of people have issue with corparol punishment. it is what they did back then. but..... it was over whathisname.

a bad day.

never held it against him. but, you and i were absolutely in different situations. i have always had unconditional love, and always knew i did. a very secure environment and strong foundation of love and trust and respect.

[Ladyhawk]

68. Yeah, I never felt loved by my father.

Like I said, he was strange and paranoid. When he got home from work, I would often hide in my room to be away from him. As I got older, he followed me around. He would try to catch me doing something "wrong" like listening to rock music. Once when my high school senior class was painting a mural on the walls of the gym, he took a teacher aside and made the teacher promise to follow me home. If I went into "town," I would catch him following me. Once I caught him hiding behind a newspaper in the library. Yes, Dad, I was going to the library. I even caught him following me home from college many times, which was two-and-a-half hours away. He continued with this behavior until I was well into my twenties.

When in his presence I was never sure what would set him off, so it was best to say nothing. I got the belt a lot and for reasons that puzzled me. I can only remember one time when I deserved some kind of punishment and that's one of the experiences that sticks out in my mind because I decided not to betray any emotion. My father said that I obviously wasn't sorry for what I'd done, so next time he'd hit me harder. :shrug:

Like I said, my father was strange. We never had anything resembling a cordial relationship and when he died, I only cried once and after that felt mostly relief, then guilt for feeling relief.

[seabeyond]

69. odd ladyhawk

and you dont have the answer why, but it isnt your question. what was his and he died with it.

i do know though. the area i am in, and the people in my life, i see them in this cult. it is sad for them.

[seabeyond]

48. you were singing a song, the words are already there

that is silliness.

hey, i dont need to jump on an atheist, i dont care. i am multi faceted. i can see so many sides and then some. i belong to none. and i belong to all. i just thought it was a bit funny an atheist using goddamn so much

[eallen]

38. If you don't believe in Thor, why do you call it Thursday?

A lot of people seem puzzled by how language works. Just because a word or phrase derives from some past usage whose meaning is now obsolete or sectarian, doesn't mean it doesn't now carry a broader meaning. Should atheists stop saying "good-bye," because of its religious roots?

[seabeyond]

52. stop saying "good-bye

theres a thought. as i said above. to use goddamn is absolutely connected to religion and god. to sing a song or say christmas or talk about any of it is a whole other matter, or saying goodbye for that matter. but out of creative expression to chose goddamn was funny to me.

[Zenlitened]

54. "to use goddamn is absolutely connected to religion and god."

Uh, no. It's not. That's the point here. It's just leftover language. Like "Thor's Day." Or "sunrise."

[seabeyond]

56. please explain

if you are the one that wrote sunrise above, obviously i dont get what youa re saying. god damn. god, (self explanatory) and damn (what bible says god does)

so obviously you are tlaking about something i dont have a clue. if you wnat to explain. i just suck up all this stuff, like satanic worshipping, tho i think there is more to that. i do like to hear different views. and bod, why anyone would get in trouble.

how is god damn not religious

[Zenlitened]

59. Because it's just an interjection, far removed from any need...

... for a belief in god(s) or hell to be damned to.

In the same way that "Thursday" is just a word for a day now, with no need for reverence of Nordic deities.

Or the way we still say the sun "rises" even though we now know it's the earth that moves around the sun, though our ancestors who developed the term believed the sun revolved around us.

[Inland]

55. Same reason a believer does.

In neither case does the speaker literally mean what they are saying. Nobody really believes that god has or should damn the cat to hell for barfing on the rug, even if you believed in god and damnation in the first place. It's just an expression.

[seabeyond]

58. i take it no oone but me thought it funny an atheist would chose

goddamn as his form of expression. ok..... but i did. still do

[northzax]

62. it's like the old joke.

What's the worst thing about being an atheist?

no one to talk to during sex.

[seabeyond]

64. thats funny

so funny. and isnt it interesting we chose oh god.... ooooh god.... lol lol of all the expressions at the "moment". really hadnt thought about it. and i am sooooo old

i can see a sweet mary of jesus too and i am not even catholic

which takes me to my totally different universal.... everything is a cosmic joke, we are one kinda thing. i just wonder, if the atheist isnt right there saying oh god along with the rest of us

[still_one]

13. people seem to forget that America is NOT a homogenious

group of citizens, but made up of many diverse groups and cultures

excellent post

[Oreo]

14. In case you haven't seen it...

Fox News sells "holiday ornaments" for your "holiday tree" on their website!

http://shop.ecompanystore.com/foxnews/FOX_ProductList.asp?TYPE=Holiday+Ideas&index=7&CATALOG=FOX&ID=71



Make your holiday tree really festive with a set of 3 ornaments from your favorite Fair and Balanced news channel. The set of 3 includes silver FOX News, FOX & Friends and The O'Reilly Factor logos printed in red on silver glass. Metal cap and hoop for hanging.

[ucmike]

15. thank you for saying it so clearly

i'm so tired of this "attack on christmas" shit. i also heard a good dose of "attack on thanksgiving" this year.

[enki23]

17. yeah, well thanksgiving is being attacked. by christmas.

[SnowGoose]

19. I love you.

There, I said it.

Secular people are the last group that is ok to openly hate, and whether you're in Tehran or Jerusalem or Paw Paw, Michigan, you can bet we're hated. Hated by White Supremicists, Black Nationalists, by skinny people, by fat people, by missionary-straights, by the exuberantly gay. Geezus, we're hated by the *dentists* for crying out loud!

Maybe someday people will wake up.

[SmokingJacket]

20. And they also need to include New Years.

Geez, I say Happy Holidays because it AIN'T just one holiday, no matter how you slice it.

[Nitrogenica]

21. Perhaps offending other Religions is the wrong terminology.

I like to say that "Happy Holidays" INCLUDES everyone and welcomes them to the holiday season.

[fishwax]

23. capitalism is attacking christmas

well said

:thumbsup:

[ComerPerro]

26. Christmas, New Years

Two holidays within Seven days of each other.

Last time I checked, "Holidays" was plural. That can be determined by the "s", which is a suffix on the word holiday.

This implies that there is more than one holiday.

And, last time I checked, two is more than one.

Therefore, there are holidays.

That's why people say "Happy Holidays".


And, honestly, what the fuck does it matter if people say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays"?

If someone fails to wish you, specifically, a "Merry Christmas", does that cheapen the experience?

No one is preventing these assclowns from saying "Merry Christmas" all they want.

Its just bullshit. All part of their persecution complex that they need to feed.

They always have to feel like victims...

[gizmo1979]

28. Wow these freaks need to

get thicker skin.They call us conspiracy nuts.Wow.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

37. You got it

and I'm tired of even thinking about it, much less talking about it. What a farce. A tempest in a teapot.

[Dem Agog]

39. how can christmas be under attack?

how can christmas be under attack?

my workplace of 10,000 people here in the bible belt has christmas trees, wreaths and garlands everywhere... all red and green...

this is how they believe it should be... no blue and gold, or hannukah decorations, or anything besides...

all jesus all the time. if you don't buy into that partiular fairy tale you dont' matter.

[Biased Liberal Media]

41. Did you see Falwell's quote?

It was so funny and it proves his ignorance:

The fact is," Falwell said, "we've gone on the offense now. We've put them on the defense. We're kicking their butts and they're unhappy."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1358020

I loved how someone else said this:

"Jerry Falwell has found that this war on Christmas is a very good, healthy, fundraising mechanism," said the Rev. Barry Lynn, director of People United for the Separation of Church and State. "And that's just about all this is. This is a war without any generals."

[NewJeffCT]

44. actually, I believe the # of atheists/agnostics is growing

The number of fundies is growing as well, but they are mostly switching from one form of Christianity to another.

I'll have to see if I can dig up links on that.

[tlsmith1963]

53. I Certainly

have come to the conclusion that I am agnostic. I wouldn't have said it a few years ago, but disgust with the fundies has made me more open about it. And I seem to know more people who admit to being agnostic or atheist. So while more people are going to church, more people are also rejecting it.

Tammy

[Inland]

45. "Merry Christmas.....DEAL WITH IT!" nt

[Ladyhawk]

47. "Happy Holidays"...DEAL WITH IT! nt

[enki23]

61. little slow on the uptake today?

.

[Ron Mexico]

49. It's about time someone pointed out the capitalism angle.

I'll make a deal with the Freetards: all they have to do is get rid of all the fucking Christmas decorations and that shitty fucking Christmas music in these stores where "Happy Holidays" is used, and I will do everything in my power to get them to say "Merry Christmas."

You see, I don't have time to worry about piddling bullshit like what holiday greeting is used. The real enemy to me is the muzak version of "The Little Drummer Boy" and all of those other lousy fucking songs I had to endure while buying my wife a necklace today.

[Inland]

65. It wouldn't have been the rightwingers, though

as they have made capitalism and business as much part of their religion as, well, Christmas.

No right wing christian is going to badmouth making a buck. They will always pretend that the bad atheists makes walmart say what they say, not that pursuit of a buck leads business to say whatever it takes to get people in the door.

[tlsmith1963]

51. In the Paper Today

Some lady said in a letter that the no. 1 problem in the world today is people attacking religion. I beg to differ. The no. 1 problem is religion attacking *us*. I'm becoming so sick of these fundies & their persecution complex. They have to control everything, & then they complain when people (rightfully) don't like it. Well, too bad. America is a country where people are supposed to believe anything they want to. If the fundies don't like it, maybe they would prefer Saudi Arabia. Their hero Bush seems to like it well enough.

Tammy

[SillyGoose]

60. That was the best damn post I've seen on this issue yet.

K & R

[Pushed To The Left]

63. It's being blown way out of proportion

by O'Reilly and the right wing to scare religious people into supporting right-wing causes. Personally, I really don't care how a store greets me during the holidays. People on both sides of the issue are getting way too sensitive.