So the truth doesn't matter, but then it never did for churchgoers.

[happydreams]

It really doesnt'. The truth is not relevant anymore. After all of the lies this slime now gets to define reality anyway he wants simply because he is the nastiest son-0f-bitch in the world.

Bush is now saying he will attack another country to stop WMD's and terrorism!! The fact that he was wrong and decieved the public and Congress is simply a disappeared fact.

These motherfuckers have gotten every single fucking thing they went after. They have chaos in Iraq and are raking in the money and they are poised to create even more chaos and more profit and the people are still chatting about Seinfeld and NFL scores as if nothing is going on. I was in a bookstore in Seattle that I frequent to read and study and I am always hearing chatty shit for brains housewives who will sit there for hours talking about their houses, husbands, inlaws.All fucking day long. They interrupt people trying to think and read. I have never heard one of them every talk about the important things--like politics and their Constitutional freedoms, I am serious. NEVER!!. They fucking deserve what is going to happen to them. Sit their and talk about your material life while the US turns into a 3rd World country.

The Bush lies are the new reality. It's like religion. You just keep repeating that the Earth was created in 7 days and eventually you have 95% of the people believing it and attacking anybody who doesn't repeat the lies. People here at DU who still believe in religion after all that has been shown are little different from the Bush fascists--both are brainwashed to believe bullshit and all are as malleable as warm putty.


"If you make people think they are thinking they will love you. But if you make people really think they will hate you." --Blase Pascal

[Joe for Clark]

1. Please don't say that.

Good christians - the principle overriding is - "What-so-ever-you-do to the least of brothers, that you do unto me." B*sh sure runs into trouble at that point.

Basically, the same message in all religions.

In any event, it is not a religious issue at all - although I am certain B*sh would like to make it so, in some warped way.

Actually, Hitler's people said if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes a truth.

Well, not in my religion.

Not in anyones religion.

B*sh made a good speech monday - today was so-so. He will get some kind of bump in polls.

It is just a dead-cat-bounce. Check FaithAmerica. Most of us "Normal" christians are gathered there - Catholic (I am one) and so many other religions - with one voice -

What-so-ever-you-do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.

I would just like to know, what was the dem response to that lame speech?? Does anyone know??

Thanks,

Joe

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[f-bush]

2. The Problem is:

I do agree with a lot that you have to say. People have become lemmings these past few years. So much of it IMHO is due to two factors a) 9-11 was used to instill fear into people so that they would go along with anything the administration wanted to pull on the American people and b) shrub and his friends have been working diligently to make ecopnomic conditions so bad for the common person that they are afraid to rock the boat because they are living just good enough to survive but are so on the edge that they fear their employers and the corporations they work for.

As for the attack on Christians...please don't confuse mainline Christians with the fundies. There are so many Christians; Lutherans, Catholics, Episcopalians, United Church of Christ, Mennonites etc that believe in helping the poor and the dispossesed. In fact in the Roman Catholic Bishop's 1984 Pastoral Letter on the economy there was great mention of "Christ's preferential option for the poor"
In the gospels there is a cite that says; "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." So many of the prosperity gospel oriented fundy churches have lost sight of Christ call and command to remember the least of our brothers and sisters. It is up to us who are involved in faith communities that care about others to work and spread the truth about what Christ's life and teaching was about.

Peace-Mike Collier

[lildreamer316]

4. Welcome to DU. Mike!

:hi:

[happydreams]

5. Just look at all of these versions of this idiocy. They are all fighting

with each other over whether Christ wipes his ass with his left or right hand. Just look at it! Shia's, Sunnis,Jews, Christians all fighting over this shit. Then you have people like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson becoming prominent because the brain dead idiots that follow them are on a pre-schoolers level emotionally.

Religion is the biggest scam of all time.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Oh brother.

Here we go again.

Like we don't get enough shit as it is.

Thanks for framing the atheists buddy.

[happydreams]

12. Would you mind being more specific.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Yes.

But I'll do so anyway.

Either you're a sock puppet or incredibly ignorant about atheism.

I suggest you read up on the subject before claiming to speak for our side.


Or not.

But if you choose to continue, you'll have this atheist joining the christians who are justified in flaming you.

[happydreams]

15. Sounds like you were already one (a true believer) anyway.

What's wrong with calling a spade a spade?

[beam me up scottie]

20. Actually, your intolerance is more indicative of a fundamentalist.

It has nothing to do with spades or believers.

Call it what it is; bigotry.

I've spent the better part of the last few years battling atheist stereotypes and I refuse to give ignorance or hatred a pass when it's masked in atheism.

As a matter of fact, I will go out of my way to get it removed from this board, Jack.

[SidDithers]

19. Either you're a sock puppet or incredibly ignorant about atheism...

Can they be both?

:evilgrin:

Sid

[beam me up scottie]

21. Apparently.

:rofl:

I swear they're framing us.

[Swamp Rat]

27. They'll be burning you at the stake next.

:D

[beam me up scottie]

29. Why do you think I don't tell people

where I live?

The villagers can't come for me if they don't know where to bring the torches!:evilgrin:

[SPKrazy]

37. Geeebus!

:popcorn:

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Exactly

And Jesus warned about people like Bush too and he said you shall know them by their fruits of their labor. That is how you can tell true Christian's from those who are just Christian's in name only and think they believe etc.
My church doesn't get political (if they did I would leave) and we do lots of ministery work and not just preaching. In the first week or two of January a group of people are going to help Katrina survivors (including my dad is hoping to go and he voted for Bush but I don't think he is a huge fan or anything like that of him). He even loves Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert and we voted for the same person for mayor back in April. My brother and I were the only college kids at our church who supported Kerry. My mother voted for him in 2000 but this time around she voted for Kerry and is now an independent and this next year said she will vote straight democratic. :D

[happydreams]

6. Strauss, the PNACer's profit of Machiavellianism, states

that religion is to be used by leaders of a fascist persuasion (Strauss loved fascism), but not to be believed by the leaders themselves. It is obvious that fascism and religion go hand in hand.

[timtom]

8. How old are you?

16? 17?

Cause that's the kind of pseudo-intellectual BS I was spouting to prove what an independent thinker I was at that age.

Live a little. Keep an open mind.

Then come back and share your ideology.

[happydreams]

10. You can't keep an open mind and believe in biblical bullshit!

You can't keep any kind of a mind when you are brainwashed.

[timtom]

13. I'm confused!

So you're saying YOU can't keep an open mind?

And you're saying it's because YOU believe in biblical bullshit...because you are brainwashed?

Or did you not understand that I was suggesting you get some experience under your belt and KEEP AN OPEN MIND while doing it. You'll be surprised what you may discover in the years to come.

[happydreams]

17. You'll be confused continuously. Get used to it.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Look at me hon

I'm a believer in Jesus and all of that but I still am a very independent thinker. If I wasn't I wouldn't have voted for John Kerry now would I? Heck, I wouldn't even be here on this board! So grow up and stop slamming people like myself. I wouldn't even be obsessed with the Kennedy assisination etc. if I was brainwashed. You should apologize and growup.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. No they don't hon

Do you even know what fascism is? We're living in it. Religion is only dangerous when people take it to the extreme like Jerry Falwell and his ilk do to our political arena. If you're a religious person you can use your faith to help you get through life and become a better person. We all just have to learn how to live with each other and stand up to the fundies.

[Swede]

7. That's a broad brush happydreams.

Most people are apolitical. Look at the ratings of the news channels compared to Seinfeld. Most people in Viet Nam or Iraq just want to make a good living for their families and be left alone. It is up to us political junkies the wake them up (occasionally).

[happydreams]

11. Did any of you that responded read the post??

It is very simple. I explained how religion brainwashes you be repeatedly telling you a lie (ie. the Earth was created in 7 day among alot of other BS)and then demanding that you either accept this lie or remain silent about it in order to stay in the group. It is a very simple and effective way to condition people to accept lies as normal.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. You need to seriously grow up

You think all religion is brainwashing people. No hon. I CHOSE to believe in what I do just like you choose to not believe in anything. Grow up.

[undeterred]

33. Gee, I have never been told any of the above

You speak "authoritatively" about something you've obviously never looked into with any effort. Take your shallow unfounded thoughts to a messageboard that is at your shabby intellectual level.

[UncleSepp]

35. Not in my religion, bub.

Not in a lot of them. Religion as I have experienced it in recent years involves a whole lot of searching and contemplating and discussion about what the truth is.

You do not know enough about religion and religious diversity to make that statement. You're just a simple bigot talking trash on the Internet, and frankly, any point you wanted to make is lost behind your stunning ignorance.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Do you know every church goer?

You don't know me hon. My grandma used to be a Bush supporter but now she doubts him because of all of his lying (how she came to that point I'm not sure) and she even doubts whether or not he's a true Christian because of all the lying. My grandmother (mom's mom) is a church goer and she voted for John Kerry and she said her favorite was Jimmy Carter. My grandfather before he died earlier this year got to vote and he did John Kerry and he was an elder in his church for twenty-seven years and did a lot of work there. I go to church and I'm a very far left leaning liberal. There are other really great church goers too. So if you're going to say something like that it's pure hearsay from you and you should apologize.

[undeterred]

25. I'm a churchgoer, and the truth matters to me

From my perspective it seems like the truth doesn't matter to people who make broad brush statements against a whole group that can't possibly be true.

All DUers, all Christians, all Democrats, all Republicans, all atheists, all religious people... are not all the same.

[Qanisqineq]

26. I agree & think more people would pay attention to text

of your post if you changed the title. I agree with the text of your post. I am just so flabbergasted at it all that I am beyond words.

So, you know, George is wonderful, he does everything right and tomorrow I am starting a petition to get his face put on Mt. Rushmore (work to begin this coming spring), on ALL stamps, and his face on the dollar bill and on all quarters. I am working on other ideas, too. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[beam me up scottie]

28. Um, I think you had better read posts #5, 6, 10 & 11 before you agree.

Changing the title isn't the problem.

Obvious prejudice is.

[Qanisqineq]

31. I was only referring to the text of the original

You are right, I haven't read all this person's posts. I just agree that Bush gets away with everything. And that fundies piss me off.

I probably didn't read even the original post thoroughly enough. I just had a huge fight with my spouse and am feeling pretty pissed at the world right now. Reading about George claiming his spying is within the law and is in our best interests hasn't helped. I should probably go read stuff in the Lounge or find something funny. Might help. I apologize if my first post seems to say I agree with every post of the original poster.

[beam me up scottie]

34. No problem.

I'm sure you'll work it out with your spouse.

No need to apologize, I don't always read all of the posts in threads either-DU's an excellent place to vent, no?

I only replied because I'm an atheist who hates bigotry of all kinds and I figure most liberals feel the same way.

Now the Amerikkkan Talibornagains are fair game...

[Arugula Latte]

30. Religion and ignorance often go hand in hand.

I mean, reeeeeally often. Not always. But usually one begets the other.

[H2O Man]

32. You are silly. n/t

[SPKrazy]

36. Let's not broadbrush "Churchgoers" anymore, okay!

I'm getting tired of broad brush statements about religion, churchgoers, Christians, etc.

Lets call it like it is!

RW Fundies worship *

As a liberal and a Christian, I hate *!

[beam me up scottie]

39. He didn't come to the party with us.

I've never seen the guy before.
:D

[H2O Man]

40. Oh, sure .....

You spank the sock puppet before we get our chance! Thanks, though. A job well done. Tempted to capitalize "Job," at that.

[Dancing_Dave]

38. Truth doesn't matter UNLESS

the truth becomes part of an emotionally, rythmically and socially deep comunications movement.

How many people are supporting alternative/counter-cultural music scenes now compared to 1970? It's not so hard to find such transformative music on the web-- just for example at http://www.artistlaunch.com/artist8.asp?artistid=7635

That's your answer. The truth WOULD matter more if it was part of such a comprehensive Groove. That's how human beings are.

[Moderator]

41. Locking

This is a broad brush of religious people.