What does ABB mean?

[Terwilliger]

I know it's very much like "Anyone But Bush"...but...

does that include Lieberman?

does that include Nader?

does that include the Libertarian candidate?


I want to know...how does ABB work if the candidate is not someone you waqnt to run for president?

OnEdit: drunken-speel!

[alexwcovington]

1. Anyone who gets the Dem nomination

If that happens to be Nader...

[Pastiche423]

2. ABB = Apathy

[IranianDemocrat]

6. Care to elaborate?

?

[Selwynn]

12. ABB = unswerving comittment to a single goal at any cost

So shaddap. :D

[Mairead]

34. 'ABB = the label is important, the substance not'

Which I suppose could be construed as a special type of apathy.

ABB says as long as the candidate has a Dem label on, it's good enough. Even if that candidate would have been just as satisfied with a GOP label. Superficialities matter!

[hiphopnation]

39. God that is so shallow

C'mon?!?! It really has NOTHING to do with a label. Shit I'd even take a thougtful, intelligent REPUBLICAN (McCain, Dole, shit even Orin Hatch) over these fascist idiots.

Voter apathy has been an American epedemic for, oh, only a several decades now. This is NOT a case of it.

As I've said before, ABB, LIEberman, Nader, a baloney sandwich. They are all a vast improvement over this regime that collectively thinks they are annointed by god to save rich people by securing business deals at the cost of working people, the world community, and the environment. They could give a damn what happens to this country becasue, like that abortion doctor killer in Fla., they truly believe thier righteous god awaits them with open, loving arms for doing his duty.

Anybody but Bush? Damn fuckin' straight.

[Mairead]

42. What? ABB is shallow? I agree!

It's like saying 'there's nothing worse than being eaten alive by piranha'. That might be true enough, but there's still a vast difference between being crushed to death by a boa constrictor and being given a million dollars. Saying that eliminating the piranha solves the problem--that's shallow.

[hiphopnation]

44. Your analogy

while cute, doesn't really address my point. I will play along, nonetheless, out of the spirit of gayety (gritting teeth, trying to control anger).

Right now we are not on land where the boa constrictor danger is real and imminent; indeed, we are UP TO OUR NECKS in stinking, pond-scum-like-water and there are piranhas circling at an ever quickening pace. That is the issue at hand.

So tell me, why on earth would I be entertaining the purely academic and hypothetical question of 'how much better it would be to be given a million dollars than being crushed by a boa constrictor' while the piranhas are beginning to nip at my toes? To me, it's a counter-intuitive, and more importantly, deadly notion

[Mairead]

61. What makes you think it's academic?

To continue the metaphor: here you are, up to your neck in the scummy water with the piranha nosing around and getting ready to have a go at you. You look around for an escape. There are seven pathways, possibly out of the swamp, but occupied by constrictors of various sizes. There are also two clear pathways well signed 'this way to the egress' and with satchels stuffed with Euros. Do you opt for getting a hug from one of the constrictors? I wouldn't.

[Clete]

3. For me.

It means any registered Democrat, which I suppose would include Lieberman. If there were no Democrats on the ballot, then I suppose it would include anyone but Bush.

[cally]

4. Yes to

all of the above. To me, Bush and his minions are so evil I will vote and work to defeat him. I don't choose any of those you list, but they are at least thoughtful and believe in the values of this country.

[Terwilliger]

5. at the march Saturday?

bring friends! :hi:

[cally]

8. Yeah, I'll be there

but I don't know where to meet. Please send a PM or post. :hi:

[RichM]

7. Well, I read somewhere that it even includes a baloney sandwich.

I'm not sure though if the sandwich has to have a big 'D' emblazoned on its jersey.

[WilliamPitt]

9. I think

it means whoever gets the nomination. Now, there are some common-sense things to be applied here. For example, Lieberman falls into this, which freaks people out. But a shrewd political eye says he has no chance at the nomination. Ditto Libertarians, Greens, etc.

Mostly, it's a safe bet.

[sistersofmercy]

10. ABB means if the candidate your supporting doesn't get the nod...

suck it up, hold your nose, fall in line and vote the little flying monkey out of office.

[bearfartinthewoods]

29. and if you live in NE PA.get as drunk as you need to be

give me a call and i'll give you a ride to the polls.

what a minute....i'll likely be drunk too. oh...that's right, i don't get drunk anymore.

bearfart....your sober, designated driver to the polls..

[Resistance Is Futile]

11. Anyone Better than shrub

I think of the first 'b' as standing for 'better than' rather than 'but.' Lieberman fails this test. Pretty much everyone else on offer, including Nader and whoever the Libertarians are running passes it.

[not systems]

13. Vote against Bush.

On election day their will be one candidate who
can possibly beat Bush.

Vote for that candidate.

[Old and In the Way]

14. I wish Ralph would run as a Democrat in the primaries.

Then we'd finally see how popular he really is.

[Clete]

16. He can't because he's not a Democrat.

Before he got drafted by the Greenies he was a registered Republican from my sources.

[FDRrocks]

18. Independant, n/r

[RichM]

17. Nobody claims he's particularly popular. The point about Nader is not

that he's popular -- it's that he dares to speak the truth far more often than politicians of either party.

No one says he's popular; no one says he's perfect. His following exists because ALL Republicans are full of sh*t, MOST Democrats are full of sh*t, and Ralph has a more cogent & penetrating analysis of our society's weaknesses than they do.

[FDRrocks]

19. I agree...

It takes an outsider. Beyond that, Ralph has chosen his path well. I am amazed to see DU constantly in amazement at (D) voting record (recently: partial birth), yet they attack the leftist party.

If the Democrats remain centrist with a possibility of a leftward swing long after I am dead, than what is my Dem. vote motivated by. Right now, it is b/c of a far rightwing swing in this country, and it is ONLY in this situation. If they let this progress further, then 3rd party all the way.

They argue that this is a 2 party system... hah.

[JohnKleeb]

20. Thats why I wonder with my views and all being pretty left

Whether its worth it. Its like the total opposite of what I admired, too bad if the party becomes centrist.

[Booberdawg]

24. I'd rather see him run as a Republican or go fuck himself.

[FDRrocks]

15. Yes.

Anyone but bush... pretty much explains itself... if Satan runs as a democrat, vote for him.

[Terwilliger]

27. No, it doesn't

as evidenced here in this thread, it means "Any Democrat..."

[rucky]

43. All About Bush

ABB really stands for "All About Bush". The next election is more of a "yes" or "no" vote for Bush. We are motivated by our hatred of Bush more than the merits of any one candidate.

But that doesn't mean we can't be critical of the other candidates, it just means our first priority is to see Bush defeated. This is a realization that we will have to be willing to compromise more than usual this election. Every DU candidate vs. candidate debate is really about electability, punctuated by our resentment for being in such a dire position of compromise. But the True ABBers realize they don't have the luxury of setting too many conditions on our support, because we imagine the worst if Bush serves a second term. And Bush has given us no reason to think otherwise.

IMO, anybody who's saying they won't vote for _____ if he gets nominated is just being a drama queen, they know that person won't get nominated anyways so it's safe to say it, or they romanticise their vote as doing something different than what it really does. It's a silly manipulation tactic that will become either an idle threat or sabotage. Or maybe they think Bush isn't that bad? I can't imagine anyone in DU truly thinks that there is a single candidate - even Nader - who is worse than Bush.

[Terwilliger]

49. How about Allan Keyes?

or Lindy LaRouche?

ABB paints people as have nothing new to offer...just a resounding "hatred" of Bush. While that MAY win a few converts, many will be offended by the notion that Bush is someone anything less than honorable.

[Clark Can WIN]

21. It means literally ANY thing but Bush. A hedge, deciduous or

evergreen. Anything but *. Unless Satan himself comes up as the Dem candidate, I'm voting for the Dem. nom. If some freak accident happens or the GOP offs the nom, I'll write the next likely Dem in. If there is no clear next Dem, I'll write in my concience. If all the above fail, I will write in my cat, or whoever may have any shot at winning.

Anything but *

[Resistance Is Futile]

22. Satan would be an improvement

God, on the other hand...

[mrgorth]

56. I'd vote for satan

and I'm RC.

[Booberdawg]

23. Means the Democratic nominee

even it that is a ham sandwich or a dog's hairy asshole - it's still better that bush*

[Tanketra]

25. Frankly? I think it's a code-word

It has a lot in common with the way some people used "states' rights" to justify discrimination or religious intolerance, or how "I have nothing against Islam" is usually the first line in a diatribe against Muslims.

Is there anyone on this board that's saying to themselves "You know, I like Bush a lot. Hopefully somebody better will come along, but he's a good plan B."? Somehow, I don't think so -- even trolls likely wouldn't be saying that (since Bush would be their Plan A).

Then, why the emphasis on ABB?

So one can follow it up with an explanation on why YOUR guy is unelectable, and we'd all be fools of the highest caliber to nominate him. Any criticism of MY guy, mind you, is irrelevant, because I only want to see Bush defeated by whatever means necessary.

[Mairead]

36. Nice one!

I've had some ill-formed ideas along that same line -- that it's a way to constrain or even eliminate substantive discourse -- but you articulated them much better than I. Thanks!

[JVS]

26. This party is experiencing technical difficulties. Please vote for our...

candidate in 2004 and we will attempt to rectify these problems in the not too distant future.

[Mairead]

37. Har! I'd argue that they leave off any mention of time

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. It's dangerously simplistic on its face

I think it's meant mainly to get the Dean and Kerry people to get along better.

[sangh0]

30. Don't be so literal

Though the literal meaning of the words indicate that ANYONE, including Nader or even Pat Buchanan, would be acceptable, the context provided by the numerous discussions on DU should have provided a fairly strong clue.

[Terwilliger]

32. yes...that ABB is another lie...

from a bunch of liars.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. I have never said it

and never would, because you're right, it would be lying.

[Terwilliger]

38. It's an ill-conceived mantra

and it paints the whole party as simply "Bush haters"

[WillyT]

31. Ya Mean... It's Not...

Take a chance on me?

:shrug:

[Terwilliger]

33. hahah

I think you need another A! Don't forget Andersson!

[JVS]

46. But Andersson is terrible.

That club is for people who are fans of the first three names in ABBA

[Tinoire]

40. To a Black person it means

Never mind that 40 acres and a mule you never got- now we're coming back to take your vote.

Back to the corporate cotton fields for you!

Well, hell no! I'm still holding out for my mule and my 40 acres!

ABB is just sick, slick pre-conditioning to accept whatever candidate corporate money and interests can push through.

ABB is a way of shutting up the Progressives, the Leftists while retaining their vote. Does the DLC think people were born yesterday and can't hear the storm-troopers at the door?

As I said in another thread- I earned my right to vote; let the person I vote for earn that vote. I won't rubber-stamp another head of the Hydra just because of an insignificant D trailer.

I may, at the polls, vote for whatever ABB candidate they shovel through but that will be up to me and my conscience. I'm not taking any stupid pledge so they can securely start counting their votes now.

[sangh0]

41. Not to the Black people I know`

If anything, they're more ABB than most other people I know.

ABB is not a "pledge", it's an opinion, as demonstrated by the fact that no one has asked you to pledge anything.

ABB is not some sinister plot to shut up Progressives, as demonstrated by the fact that many Progressives agree with ABB. Also, the only place I hear about ABB is on DU. I doubt that DU is the source of an anti-Progressive movement.

[JVS]

47. I've seen numerous threads asking people to take the ABB pledge

[sangh0]

50. Link?

I think you are exagerrating. The threads I remember asked who agreed with ABB.

[Terwilliger]

53. right....and THAT's not discriminatory, nor leading

those threads were just trying to find out "whether your for us, or agin' us!"

[JVS]

54. Terwilliger, would you please find a link for sangh0?

I have no star and can't do a search. But I think that there was something along the lines of "Take the ABB pledge".

It was all very reminiscent of one of those High-school prom promise deals where they ask the kids who will pledge not to drive drunk, but a lot of people here refused to sign on and instead said that they see no need for loyalty oaths in politics.

On edit: or don't. We all know what we saw, no need to convince him

[sangh0]

57. Actually, I remember that one

but I would point out that ONE thread ASKING (not demanding) is not quite as serious a threat as some people's heated rhetoric would lead us to believe.

[Tinoire]

59. It comes up in thread after thread

Accusatory posts attempting to arm-twist, screams of "so you want Bush?". I could if you want PM them to you but in about a week, you'd have a big angry flashing red banner in your in-box saying "Warning! Your in-box is too big! Please delete messages immediately" It's a horrible sight, those huge red flashing letters...

ABN is woven all over the place.

[sangh0]

60. More rhetoric

"Arm-twisting"? Isn't that kind of hard to do over the Internet? I could just as easily characterize your post as an attempt to "arm-twist" me into agreeing that people were "arm-twisting" others to take "the pledge"

It's called debate, and it's expected on a website devoted to politics. Basically, your complaint is some people are assholes, and they include some ABBers. I agree.

[gully]

45. ABB = Voting for the most likely person to oust Bush.

That would be the Democratic nominee.

Yes that included Lieberman. And, Nader if he becomes the Democratic nominee.

The Democratic nominee is the 'only' person with a chance to beat Shrub.

[Terwilliger]

51. so ADBHNB

Any Democrat Because He's Not Bush?

or would that be...

ODBOTCBB

Only Democrats Because Only They Can Beat Bush?

[gully]

55. Well you could say....

Any Democrat, Or Any One Else That Becomes The Most Likely Candidate To Beat Bush, Because The Differences Make A Difference In The Lives Of Ordinary Americans.

ADOAOETBTMLCTBBBTDMADITLOOA

[Terwilliger]

58. yes

"we happy to be slaves, cuz we needs to eats us some gruel and have a thatch roof o'er our heads, and a dirt floor, because if we don't have that..."

[diplomats]

48. To me, it means I'll vote for the Dem nominee

[Terwilliger]

52. so the literal translation not being accurate...

is not a problem for you?

I know you, diplomats, and I know you do not want Bush to regain the presidency. How do you think "ABB" plays to people outside of the Democratic party? Do you think that sentiment will mean "I'll vote for the Dem nominee" to the average, less partisan voter?

OnEdit: s&p