Which JFK assassination fact do you consider to be most significant ?

[TruthIsAll]

Poll question: Which JFK assassination fact do you consider to be most significant ?

[maveric]

1. How about "All of the above".

I cant pinpoint just one.
But.... if I must I'd say the magic bullet theory. Pure bullshit!

[rasputin1952]

26. You can thank arlen Spector for that little gem...

Too much Sci-Fi as a kid I suppose, and not enough physics.

But you are correct, "all of the above" would be the correct answer.

:kick:

[Eloriel]

68. Me too.

But the magic bullet is the most obviously and immediately suspect, perhaps. Doesn't pass "the common sense rule" for me.

Eloriel

[Pastiche423]

2. I have questioned the magic bullet theory

since I was nine years old.

[Punkingal]

3. It was hard to choose just one.....

but all those deaths that occurred shortly after the assassination, and then again when the Congressional investigations were beginning have always seemed way beyond coincidence to me.

[Gman]

4. Yes

those.

[Paragon]

5. The author of the magic bullet theory...

Sen. Arlen Specter (R - PA). Coincidence?

[Minstrel Boy]

6. I said Ruby

Mob-tied FBI informant.

Bay of Pigs conspirator.

Associate of Oswald.

Seen prowling the halls of Parkland Hospital just before the magic bullet was found on a stretcher.

Stood at the back of Oswald's Friday night press conference with a loaded gun, and corrected the DA when he said Oswald belonged to the right-wing "Friends of Cuba" instead of the left-wing "Fair Play for Cuba Committee."

How did he get through security at Oswald's transfer?

Extremely nervous in custody, sweating profusely, while Oswald was still alive. Calmed dramatically only after the news of Oswald's death was received, even though an officer told him it "looked like the chair."

And so much more.

It should be obvious to all but the willfully deaf, dumb and blind that Ruby killed Oswald to silence him, and not - Good Lord - to spare Jackie the ordeal of testifying.

Ruby: Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts, of what occurred, my motives. The people had- that had so much to gain and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world.

Reporter: Are these people in very high positions Jack?

Jack: Yes.

[knowledgeispower]

41. I agree...why would Ruby shoot Oswald?

What was the motive? That he loved JFK? All facts (such as those you present) go against that. It just smacks of tying up loose ends, but you just don't see that done right in front of EVERYONE.

[dflprincess]

63. I voted for the magic bullet

but Ruby was my second choice. I was 10 when JFK was killed. I put on my first tinfoil hat that Sunday when Oswald was shot and I heard my dad say to my mother "Someone doesn't want him talking."

[kmars]

7. How about the fact that his brain has vanished?

Kennedy was not laid to rest with his brain. IT was removed and left in the care of the FBI, I believe, and they have mysteriously lost it.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi kmars!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Beaker]

34. maybe they put it Geronmio's skull-

in the skull&bones trophy case.

[Octafish]

8. Why did CIA lie about OSWALD in MEXICO CITY?

Someone in the US Government went to great lengths to paint Oswald as a Cuba-loving traitor and commie sympathizer in the months and weeks LEADING UP to the assassination. Now who would want to do a thing like that? Operation NORTHWOODS, anyone?

Here's an interesting fellah. He's shown leaving the Cuban embassy, where he has just made quite a fuss, DEMANDING an entry visa, which he said he needs to return back to the USSR. Funny, he doesn't look like Oswald, yet that's who the CIA reported he was to the Warren Commission.



Photo Credit: CIA/E. Howard Hunt

[Minstrel Boy]

10. right on, Octafish

The CIA was creating a legend for Oswald. They were lying about him before Nov 22. What the hell does this say?

Lie afterwards, and maybe you're covering up gross negligence or acting out of concern to "protect the system." Lie before, and you're conspiring to frame Oswald for a crime that's yet to be committed.

[Octafish]

28. Here's a movie taken at Love Field in Dallas showing SS ordered OFF car!

This came to light a couple of years back, but I had not seen it on the web until recently. While there is no sound, it is direct evidence the Secret Service were told to stand down. Note the agent's body language as he's ordered to get OFF of JFK's limousine.

If memory serves, you've probably seen this. But if you haven't please scroll down a bit to see the tiny Quicktime movie. It is chilling to see the face of Amerika the Monster.

http://www.jfklancer.com/SSoffcar.html

PS: Thanks, Minstrel Boy! I knew you got it.

[LifeDuringWartime]

42. WTF

i didnt know about that :wtf:

[knowledgeispower]

43. Operation Northwoods

Man I had never thought about that connection before. Kennedy wouldn't okay the Joint Chiefs of Staff blowing up a civilian airliner and blaming it on Cuba, so they just went ahead and tried to make it look like the Cubans had assassinated our President...makes a lot of sense. But if this was the case, how come the supposed Cuba-Kennedy link was never hyped up to go to war?

[The Zanti Regent]

9. Specter lied.

Arlen Specter--40 years of Whoring for the GOP

I hope Pennsylvania finally gives this bootlicker a pink slip in 2004!

[JackSwift]

11. Political loner assassins always do it close up

so they can get caught. Someone of Oswalds narcissistic personality would not have done it and then denied it. He would have done it like every wacko assassin of the previous hundred years.

Think John Wilkes Booth shooting Lincoln up close, leaping on stage and announcing in latin: so it goes with all tyrants.

Think of the guy who shot Archduke Ferdinand who walked right up to him. The guys who shot Garfield, McKinley. Think attempts on TR, FDR, Truman, Ford, Reagan, Clinton. All lone nutcases, just like Oswald, all in a manner that would ensure that the world knew they were the ones that did it. Think Mark Chapman, the guy who shot John Lennon. Think the guy who shot the Pope.

I think Oswald participated in a conspiracy, realized he had been set up as a patsy. But Oswald definitely did a bunch of things to incriminate himself. Probably at the instigation of others, people who were very good at setting him up. He was definitely at some point in the sniper's nest in the book depository, and may have taken some shots. I don't know if there were other shooters, I don't know their location, including the book depository. But from what I know of abnormal psychology, Oswald didn't plan it by himself. Just way out of his character to do it that way and then deny it.

[Lexingtonian]

15. Ahem.

'Sic semper tyrannis' is the state motto of Virginia.

I'm not sure anyone truly believed that Lincoln was a tyrant; it was his conduct of 'hard war' and conquest of the state that represented the social and political pinnacles of power of the Confederacy that made him a Genghis Khan figure in the eyes of people such as Booth.

As for your theory: James Earl Ray. Or the assassinations of Olaf Palme, Aldo Morro, and the execution of the Romanovs and the Ceaucescus. Everything really only reflects Rule One of Regicide: Make Absolutely Sure that either you can't miss or can't be caught.

[Minstrel Boy]

22. As for James Earl Ray,

did you know, in 1999, a civil court found MLK had been killed as result of a government conspiracy? Have you read the evidence? William Pepper's Orders to Kill and Act of State?

Here's the verdict:

The jury returned with a verdict after two and one-half hours. Judge James E. Swearengen of Shelby County Circuit Court, a gentle African-American man in his last few days before retirement, read the verdict aloud. The courtroom was now crowded with spectators, almost all black.

"In answer to the question, `Did Loyd Jowers participate in a conspiracy to do harm to Dr. Martin Luther King?' your answer is `Yes.'" The man on my left leaned forward and whispered softly, "Thank you, Jesus."

The judge continued: "Do you also find that others, including governmental agencies, were parties to this conspiracy as alleged by the defendant?' Your answer to that one is also `Yes.'" An even more heartfelt whisper: "Thank you, Jesus!"

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/MLKconExp.html

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/mlkarticles.html

[JackSwift]

40. Raoul was Ray's co-conspirator

And James Ray was not a lone nut, he seemed perfectly sane (but a nasty racist) in his many interviews. True Booth was part of a broader conspiracy, but his behavior of running to the stage rather than away is classic nut. We really don't know if Olaf Plame or Aldo Morro were killed by the lone nut. I wasn't describing every assassination, but the one's committed by people we knew had Oswald's narcissistic and obsessive personality type. The need to be caught and "take credit" before the whole world is very strong. The fact that Oswald did not take credit and did the deed from hiding is contrary to every pathetic fact we have about him.

Oswald may very well have squeezed of some shots, but the likelihood that he wasn't put up to it and made a patsy seems to me to be rather small.

Oh, and the fact that every adult in the world remembers where they were when JFK was shot except George Herbert Walker Bush suggests to me that GHWB was engaged in some kind of illegal or highly immoral (whorehouse) activity at the time. He was a Texas politician and a name plantifff in a lawsuit against Connelly at the moment. Now I handled hundreds of cases, and if one of my opponents is shot with the President, I think I'm going to remember exactly where where I was when I heard the news for the rest of my days. I remember where I was when I first heard Reagan was shot. I remember where I was when the Challenger and Columbia exploded.

[Art_from_Ark]

77. Aldo Moro wasn't killed by a lone nut

He was kidnapped in broad daylight by the Red Brigades (or someone claiming to be them), who used at least two cars for the crime. The kidnappers demanded the release of 14 RB members who were being tried in Turin. After several refusals by the Italian government, Moro was assassinated, 54 days after his abduction.

[NoPasaran]

33. Some of these "Lone Nuts" were conspirators

Booth was part of a larger conspiracy. The same night Lincoln was shot Secretary of State Seward was stabbed. Opinions vary as to whether or not the Booth group had links to the Confederate "government".

Gavrillo Princip, the guy who shot Franz Ferdinand was part of a group which had gathered in Sarajevo. A bomb or two had already been thrown before Princip took his shots. I don't think there's any doubt that this group had links to Serbia.

[knowledgeispower]

45. How about Sirhan Sirhan?

Shot RFK right up close...but do you really think he was a crazy lone gunman?

[Minstrel Boy]

46. Sirhan was standing

about a foot and a half in front of RFK.

All of RFK's wounds were found to have been cause by shots fired from behind, at an upward trajectory, with the gun nozzle no more than an inch from the skin. :shrug:

Here's a recent thread on RFK's assassination, with a number of other salient facts of the case:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=606486

[Lexingtonian]

12. You omitted "None of the Above"

and also "The fact that forty years later people are still in passionate and irrational denial that it may simply have been an absurd deed by a single man."

I find this explanation of Oswald- and also the mob Pilate faces in the tale of the Crucifixion- the most compelling (though it gets too juvinile for me in the last set of stanzas).

http://www.lyricsdomain.com/lyrics/10319/

[grasswire]

13. Col. Fletcher Prouty said....

....that the newspapers in Asia had Oswald identified and a pic before he was actually identified in the U.S.

The book that impressed me the most was "The Many Who Knew Too Much" about Richard Case Nagell.

[Lexingtonian]

16. Well

Of course the Dallas police would have let foreign media know more earlier than domestic media. That's Policing 101 when dealing with a potential conspiracy/gang.

[aeon flux]

14. All the witnesses who saw/heard the shots can't be lying

how anyone can ignore these witnesses is beyond me. What more proof do you need oswald wasn't the lone gunmen. What more damn proof do yo want.

It's also impossible to believe that said group of heavily armed gunmen could be allowed to get past security and within close range of the President, without official complicity.

[Lexingtonian]

17. Lots of large buildings

Spaced so that sharp echoes off them could well sound like additional gunshots.

[Terwilliger]

19. or not

you have no clue, but 35 years hence, YOU can tell us what's true :eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. When you're standing in front of the fence on the Grassy Knoll..

...and you hear a rifle being fired from behind you and you feel the round passing close by, I'd say that's pretty good testimony for at least a second gunman.

And what of the people that saw and smelled gunsmoke floating away from the Grassy Knoll?

[robbob]

71. And what of the fact

that few if any of these witnesses were called to testify at the Warren Commission?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. Oswald's CIA 201 personnel file...

...and his previous duty as a radar operator for the USMC at the Atsugi Air Force Base in Japan...tracking the U-2 flights and standing guard duty on the U-2 hangers.

And the Minox camera found among his belongings...the choice of CIA field operatives.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. Richard Case Nagel was arrested with a Minox in his trunk

in Sept '63, with an address book that included that of the "Fair Play for Cuba Committee." His arresting officer says Nagell told him "I'm glad you caught me. I really don't want to be in Dallas." To "what do you mean by that?" Nagel replied "You'll see soon enough."

Just beginning the Nagel book, The Man Who Knew Too Much, by Dick Russell. Some amazing stuff there.

[Octafish]

44. Dallas PD found a Minox among Oswald's possessions.

The police listed the very expensive miniature camera among the items taken from his house. The FBI, however, reported the item to the Warren Commission as a "Minox light meter." A spy's a spy.





The Minox Light Meter
Sleight of Hand

As discussed in the original Minox article, DPD gave a Minox camera they had in evidence to the FBI in the 11/26/63 transfer of evidence to the FBI. Despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary, the FBI later claimed that the camera they inventoried and signed for was actually a Minox light meter.

There is a Minox light meter in a case (circled) visible in the First Day Evidence photo (full-frame on the left). Is it possible that DPD confused this light meter for a camera as the FBI claimed??? No, considering the following:

* The camera was opened by DPD, and a roll of film was found inside. A light meter does not open, nor would there be film inside a light meter. Note that Detective Rose's inventory indicates that a roll of film was found with the camera.
* Rose found the camera in Oswald's sea bag. Michael Paine's light meter would not have been in Oswald's sea bag.
* In addition, Detective Rose's inventory indicates that the Minox camera came with a case and a chain. There is no chain on the Minox light meter in the First Day Evidence photo.
* Since FBI Agent DeBrueys was the person who inventoried the transferred evidence on 11/26/63, he would have had to have made the exact same mistake that Detective Rose made. Since we know DeBrueys was familiar with Minox cameras, that would have been extremely unlikely.

Since several of the items in the photo made their way to the FBI through some back-door channel, it seems likely that the light meter might have been taken at the same time as the case and name tags. When the camera inconveniently appeared on the transfer sheet a few days later, the FBI already had the light meter in its possession and it was a simple matter to switch it for the camera. Especially since there was no record of the transfer of items B1 thru B18.

CONTINUED...

http://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/moreminox.htm

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. you forgot JFK's removed brain disappearing ...ahem..."stolen"

[Solomon]

25. Someone pease explain the meaning of the question about

the Zapruder film frames being switched. What's this about? First I heard of it and what are you talking about. What frames and so on.
The copy of the film that I have on DVD shows clearly that Kennedy was shot from the front. Absolutely no doubting about that. Get it on the dvd. Unmistakable. And before people start the bullshit about "a shot from the back can look like it hit in the front", please look at the film first, and then let's hear you sputter that he was shot from behind.

The biggest irony in the whole thing is that "grassy knoll" has come to signify that a person is nuts and delusional as in "another grassy knoll nut."

[Octafish]

27. LIFE Magazine published the head shot frames in REVERSE order.

The sequence of photos depicted the impact, but instead of falling backward, the president's body is shown falling forward. LIFE, years later, said it was a mistake. Of course, the impression that had been created for millions of Americans in 1963 was that the fatal shot came from the back and the School Book Depository.

Even Dan Rather got in the act, stating he had seen the Zapruder film and it showed the President moving forward. Small world, indeed. And very, very bad. An interesting article...

MEDIA STORM OVER JFK CONTINUES TO RAGE

by
GEOFF HEINRICKS

EXCERPT...

Why has the media failed to pursue two major questions that have never really been answered. One, posed by Stone, and many others before him, is why did Dan Rather, after being selected for a special closed-door screening of the Abraham Zapruder film, come out and assert that the final shot to the head drove Kennedy violently forward, exactly the opposite of what happened? Rather has never been forced to account for himself on this error.

The second is why did Life magazine, which published 10 key stills from the Zapruder film on Oct. 2, 1964, stop the press run for the magazine, reverse the frame order, change the caption to declare the head was driven "forward" instead of "snapping to one side," and then continue the bulk of the run (the first issues are rare collector's items now)?

The Dec. 23, 1991, Time attempts to answer some of Stone's questions about Life (then part of Time Inc.) in a footnote, but this particular question is not included, or answered. The Warren Commission pulled the same sort of frame switch in its report.

By now we have a heap of wry scientific reports explaining that watermelons, cans of paint, and goats when shot from behind fly backwards toward the shooter, so Rather and everyone else just must have made little, forgivable mistakes.

CONTINUED...

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_01.16.92/news/med0116.htm

MORE on the subject at:

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/subverting_the_media.htm

http://www.geocities.com/whiskey99a/jeteffectrebut.html

And an excerpt from Peter Dale Scott:

In its prompt commitment to the lone-assassin theory, the Times was of course not alone. A lead role was played by Life magazine, whose purchase and locking up of the Zapruder film allowed the media to lie about it. After reports of an entrance wound in the President's throat, Life itself initially wrote, on December 6, 1963, that the "film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest just before he clutches it." (Of course the film shows no such thing.)18 Shown the film on November 23, Dan Rather told the world that it shows the President's head snapped "forward with considerable violence" (rather than the exact reverse).19

CONTINUED...

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/pdscot~1.htm

[deutsey]

29. I used to have reprints of the LIFE "mistake"

I wish I still had them; they were reprinted in a publication I bought in college and have since been lost.

And I've heard about the Rather assertion (the Zapruder film wasn't shown to the American public until the mid-70s...Rather was one of the national media people who got to see it beforehand and he allegedly said Kennedy went forward, not backward). However, I've never been able to confirm that he did in fact say this. Do you have a source, just so in the future I can tell people about this?

[Octafish]

39. Happy Birthday, Dan Rather! What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Hey, Dwayne! It seems Mr. Rather learned at an early age how to play the hand he was dealt. One might say his career took off, like a "rocket." — Octafish

DAN RATHER AND JFK

In November, 1963, Dan Rather was an unknown newscaster at a small Texas TV station. When the Zapruder film of the assassination of John Kennedy became public knowledge, Dan Rather reported from Texas that he had seen the film, and that it showed John Kennedy's head "rocket forward" from the head shot. Single frames were shown from the film in magazines and on TV, but the actual moving image was not shown to the American public until Jim Garrison's trial of CIA agent Clay Shaw made the Zapurder film public, and proved once and for all that the head shot pushed John Kennedy's head backwards.

Shortly after Rather's "rocket forward" broadcast, he was given his first network slot and the start of his rise to media stardom. His original "rock forward" broadcast appears briefly under the opening titles of Oliver Stone's "JFK".

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/rather_jfk.html

BWTM: Peter Dale Scott, the English professor out of Berkeley, has done a great service in documenting the treason behind the assassination. Here's his footnote from the citation in Response #27 above, which includes some additional info on Rather.

19. By 1967 Rather had come up with a new explanation for the President's sudden movement: "Jackie pushed him." (Monte Evans, The Rather Narrative, 76). On August 10, 1973, in the midst of Watergate, Rather asked a strikingly different question: "Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who shot President Kennedy. Did he ever know or have contact with E. Howard Hunt or Gordon Liddy....?...Perhaps it isn't time to re-open the Kennedy assassination...in any formal way. It may be, however, that someone, somewhere in authority is asking quietly. Investigatively, some of the tough questions about Hunt and Liddy and their Cuban contacts and whether they had at any time any contact with Oswald, Sirhan, Ray or Bremer" (Evans, p. 115). Rather may have been referring to the Senate Watergate Committee's apparent pursuit of the Roselli story of a "retaliation plot" against Kennedy. Shortly afterwards, the Committee staff interviewed Roselli's CIA cut-out. Robert Maheu (8/30/73), Roselli's lawyer, Edward P. Morgan (9/7/73), and eventually Roselli himself (2/20/74). Do not expect to read about these interviews in the standard Watergate histories.

http://roswell.fortunecity.com/angelic/96/pdscot~1.htm

EDIT: Footnote -- not citation! Dah!

[dflprincess]

67. I still have the Life magazine that came out that week

I must dig it out and check this.

[Solomon]

47. Thanks Fish.

I'm flabbergasted! I never knew Life Magazine did that. Deep. Now that's really deep.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Non-standard motorcade route

requiring the sharp, more than 90 degree left turn was contrary to Secret Service regulations.

Other things that are smelly: Dallas PD's inept investigation afterwards.
LBJ as a possible link- where's that winking photo?

I have no doubt Oswald fired shots at JFK from the TSBD, but even if he were acting alone, he was obviously aided in the crime. The mafia's influence can be seen in the Dallas PD's behavior. The mob would very likely have a huge hold on such a big PD.

[Junkdrawer]

31. 40 yrs. this November. Isn't LBJ's lockbox due to be opened soon?

My bet is that we get the "second official story": Russia/Cuba did it and the bullshit Warren Report was an attempt to prevent WW III.

[rasputin1952]

35. Locked up for 75 years...

35 years to go. 2038 is the year the evidence is to be made public.

Seriously doubt if I'll be around then. Personally, I believe the American people have every right to know what happened. A democracy cannot exist behind closed doors; just as we've seen with the current administration.

:kick:

[Junkdrawer]

38. Wow - so almost no one alive during the assasination will get..

to see what is in the box.

BTW: The "lock box" was always my favorite clue that a "second offical story" was used to obtain the cooperation of all involved with the cover-up. Over the years, we have been teased with little pieces of this story being leaked, eg: Bobby Kennedy trying to kill Castro and then feeling guilty about his brother's assasination.

[emad]

32. The cover up has always been a bi partisan matter.

The truth won't be known till Bush 1 and 2 are both indicted for war cimes.

BFEE = mercenaries rescuited to fight a cultist turf war

[SavageWombat]

36. Clearly

It always seemed clear to me that SOMETHING was going on. I don't know if there was a lone assassin or not - I don't think the masses of "evidence" prove anything.

But the sheer volume of chicanery surrounding the whole thing make it definitely clear that somebody - multiple somebodies - were covering something up. And badly.

At minimum - the Warren Commission lied their asses off to be able to present a "Case Closed" to the people, instead of having to say something like "We have no frickin' clue".

[lancemurdoch]

37. The Warren Commission itself

There were two non-elected people on the Warren commission (aside from Warren himself): Allen Dulles and John McCloy. They were both pretty creepy guys, the more you know about their histories, the creepier they seem. And JFK fired Dulles, Dulles hated Kennedy - and he's the spook they put on the Warren Commission to investigate his assassination?

[David Zephyr]

54. Bingo.

Yep.

[Minstrel Boy]

56. Jack Ruby: "The Warren Commission! What the hell do they know?

Did they learn anything you couldn't read in the papers the next day?"

[iangb]

48. Or the fact that idol assassination is.....

......pretty much par for the course for nobody's like Oswald?

As to contradicary witness statements: have you ever listened to people describing an auto accident?

Witness one: "The red one was going really fast, and it sort of spun round and hit the blue one".

Witness two: "The red one was almost stopped, the blue one ran into it".

etc.

Witnesses have a tendency to say what they think you want them to say is all.


But above all. JFK should be commemerated on this anniversary. Revisiting all of the controversies and conspiracy theories both diminishes his memory...........and makes some of us easy targets for accusations of being 'whacko conspiracy theorists'.

[Solomon]

49. It's very obvious you have not seen the Zapruda film. Oswald could not

have shot from the building and busted Kennedy's head open from the front at the same time. Sheeesh. What else do you need?

[iangb]

51. Need?

To what end?

Become yet another whacko conspiracy theorist who discounts the evidence of dozens of ballistic and pathology experts who say that the wounds fit the expected pattern if Oswald did it?

The sad fact is JFK is still dead.......and you people are wasting your breath.

[maveric]

52. Do you ACTUALLY beleive the "magic bullet theory"?

Can one bullet do that much damage going through 2 bodies and turning around in mid air?
Numerous physicists have discounted that theory but Arlen Spector and Allen Dulles(who Kennedy fired), are correct?

Do you really beleive that a bullet can act as the WC said it did?

[rasputin1952]

57. I think it was the "magic Bullet" that clinched it for me...

Since no one saw the Zapruder film for years, and a few of the stills in Life were deleted, it was extremely difficult for the population to put it all together.

But when Arlen Specter, a budding young Rep lawyer at the time, came up with a bullet, that could do the damage it did, and actually GAIN in mass after shattering wrist bones; please.

The notion that a bullet would do TWO 90 degree turns, must really have been the birth of "smart munitions". It was ludicrous then, it is just as luducrous now; and how Specter was ever taken seriously after that is beyond me.

Once I starte dto look at the insanity of the "Magic Bullet", I started to look at other disaparities in the Report as well. A lot that was relevant to the case was just shunted to the side or written off as heresay. Rather than openly account for these disparities, it was convenient for the powers that be to just overlook them. This is why this will never be satisfactorily explained, and there will always be conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theories make far more sense than ANYTHING the official reports portray. So, until the year 2038 we will be kept in the dark, and even then, who knows what is in there, and what will be disclosed.

:kick:

[jsw_81]

59. Read "Case Closed" by G. Posner

He shows exactly how one bullet caused those wounds, and there was nothing "magic" about it at all.

[Minstrel Boy]

64. oy vey...

Posner hasn't met a coincidence he doesn't like. His use of evidence is as selective as the Warren Report he endorses. More disturbingly, witnesses he's claimed to have interviewed have sworn he never spoke to them. He lies, distorts and fabricates. And why? To refurbish the Official Story and dismiss the value of further inquiry. Case Closed was published at the 30th anniversary, around the time of the movie JFK, at a time of renewed interest. Posner did the same for Martin Luther King's murder as well (Killing the Dream) just as the King civil trial was about to begin. (Which ruled there had been a government conspiracy.)

If you're interested, here's a refutation of a number of Posner's assertions:
http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id81.htm

If you ever want to know what your government and its gatekeepers don't want you to know, here are some suggestions:

The Last Investigation by Gaeton Fonzi (House Select Committee on Assassinations investigator).

Oswald and the CIA by John Newman.

Plausible Denial by Mark Lane.

The Man Who Knew Too Much by Dick Russell.

Deep Politics and the Death of JFK by Peter Dale Scott.

History Will Not Absolve Us by E. Martin Schotz.

The Assassinations anthology by Probe Magazine.

[TruthIsAll]

55. The sad fact is you are conveniently ignoring the evidence...

which makes you a coincidence theorist.

Try to refute the facts stated here. One by one. If you cannot, consider your case closed...

[iangb]

73. "Ignoring the Evidence"?

Hardly.
Indisputedly JFK is dead. Most likely shot by a lone gunman.

Meanwhile, 40 years on the World faces a whole new set of challenges, many of them down to your current President.

Given the choice between the minute dissection of an (important) historic event, and trying to find solutions to the present situation........I'll have to leave you guys bogged down in your plethora of 'ifs', 'buts' and 'maybes'.

I'll take time though, to remember Kennedy......rather fondly.

[Minstrel Boy]

75. "the new set of challenges"

were set in motion November 22, 1963. If not earlier. "Fascism will come to America in the name of national security," said Jim Garrison. Do you agree with him? Then perhaps you should give more respect to some other things he said.

Here's Mort Sahl, in 1968:

"Once the neo-fascists became bold enough to slay the President on the street, they showed their hand. They showed how arrogant they had become. Now it's a question of symptom. That crime was a national symptom. If we can turn our back on that, we will pay a terrible price. That will be the end of this democracy."
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mort%20Sahl/Mort%20Sahl%20-%20Argo.html

[TruthIsAll]

76. Go ahead. Believe the ABC Bushit they are about to throw you..

Hardly.
Indisputedly JFK is dead. Most likely shot by a lone gunman.
Me.
Yes, he is dead. So is your argument.

Meanwhile, 40 years on the World faces a whole new set of challenges, many of them down to your current President.
Me-
He is not my President. In fact, he wasn't elected. Begs the question. Refute the facts I presented. Don't change the subject. Strawman.

Given the choice between the minute dissection of an (important) historic event, and trying to find solutions to the present situation........I'll have to leave you guys bogged down in your plethora of 'ifs', 'buts' and 'maybes'.
Me-
The realization that it was a conspiracy was made a long time ago by 80% of the people. I guess youare one of the 20%.

I'll take time though, to remember Kennedy......rather fondly.
Me-
Stop the syrup. I bet you weren't even around in '63.I was in college at the time. I have read virtually everything on this topic over the last 40 years, starting with the first NY Times article on 11/23/63 that stated he was shot from the front.

Where were you in '63?

[mumon]

78. Alot of 'em weren't alive (I was in first grade...)

but I fondly remember the Seinfeld parody of the movie J.F.K....

[jsw_81]

58. The head shot

If you watch the Zapruder film it's pretty obvious that Kennedy's head was hit from the rear, not the front. The blood and tissue that exploded out of the front of his head was from an exit wound.

The truth is that every single piece of credible evidence points to one man: Lee Oswald. All the idiotic conspiracy theories in the world won't change that simple fact.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

61. Yes Oswald could have been the lone gunman

but he got help- either knowingly or otherwise- there is no doubt about that. There are way to many examples of the Dallas PD, the Secret Service, and others acting in ways which jeopardized Kennedy's safety.

[TruthIsAll]

66. That's pure bull..whar film were you watching?

JFK's blood and brains splattered a motorcycle policeman following and to the left of JFK. JFK was shot from the right side-front (the Grassy knoll area). Look at the film again.

The Zapruder film had frames mysteriously switched (read the post above) to make it appear that JFK was shot from behind and thus fell forward. When this attempt to corrupt the evidence was exposed, and the frames were put back in correct sequence, apologists like yourself needed a new explanation: they now claimed that falling backward is an expected neurological reaction when one is shot in the head from the rear!

This is such garbage! It flies in the face of Newtonian physics and common sense. I have never even seen this in a Hollywood movie. Have you?

[Minstrel Boy]

70. The Nix film

is another view of the headshot, from a distance and at a reverse angle. Not as clear as Zapruder, but makes an interesting comparison, and shows the reaction of the witnesses.

It can be downloaded here (as well as the "Muchmore" video):

http://www.jfkjr.com/archives/

[Minstrel Boy]

69. When Jackie tried to retrieve a piece of her husband's skull,

did she climb over the front of the car, or over the back?

[Arwennick]

50. Read this book online

Big Daddy in the Big Easy.Goggle Carlos Marcello
It will answer all your questions in chapters 11-15
even the question of James Earl Ray.

Little Big Man got them all in the end.

[maveric]

72. Check out ch.14 on RFK's murder

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/marcello/14.html?sect=16

"There was no doubt that if Robert Kennedy became president, he a) would re-open the investigation on his brother’s death, and b) rejuvenate his efforts to destroy organized crime.

Carlos Marcello had remained good friends with L.A. mobster Mickey Cohen since they both had appeared before the McClellan hearings. By 1968, Cohen was in prison, having waged a full-scale war with the Dragna family for control of the rackets in Los Angeles, including the major racetracks that were all hooked into the Marcello’ s wire service and bookie network.

Sirhan Sirhan, the alleged killer of Robert Kennedy, worked as a groom at the Santa Anita race track controlled by Cohen, who had also been a close friend of Jack Ruby, the gangster who shot Oswald dead. Ruby was part of the Civello set-up in Dallas that was controlled by Marcello. That Robert Kennedy’s brother was himself shot dead in a city that was controlled by a close friend of Carlos Marcello, who was more than likely the immediate boss of the man who shot the man who shot the president, has to be surely more than just a coincidence.

Robert Kennedy was shot and fatally wounded as he was walking through the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel, in Los Angeles. His alleged killer fired all eight rounds from his .22 calibre revolver, wounding at least five other people. The fatal wound to Kennedy occurred behind his right ear from a bullet that was fired from a gun less than one inch from the victim’s head. Sirhan Sirhan was at least three feet in front of Kennedy when he began to shoot. In all, at least ten, possibly fourteen shots were fired that night; the alleged killer's gun contained only eight bullets and he never got the chance to reload the weapon."

Marcello was perhaps the most powerful single mobster in america.
He hated the Kennedys as well as MLK and was an aquaintance of J.Edgar Hoover whom which shared that hatred with.

Thanks for the link YellowDogRedneck. Great read.

[David Zephyr]

53. Allen Dulles Actually Being Part of the Warren Commission.

Nothing is more significant than that, folks. Nothing.

[yowzayowzayowza]

65. Indeed!

IIRC, Dulles was grandaddy Shrubboz lawyer/partner in his Nazi trading-with-the-enemy treason. Wadda tangled web!!!

[mumon]

60. I'm sorry- I'm quite left of center...

but mostly, I think the Kennedy assassination is just grist for really tasteless jokes. That I deeply appreciate.

Yeah, the CIA did it.

But look at the Zapruder film. Jackie's priceless.

Sorry if that offends folks, but Kennedy's dead, and he, too would have found humor there.

[Merlin]

62. The head snap. Above all else.

Newtons laws of motion tell us that when a dense object (such as a skull bone) is impacted by a powerful force (a bullet), there will be a reaction. The impacted item will be driven in the same direction as the bullet is travelling. There are no exceptions to this rule, despite the attempts of fakirs to attach mellons to ladders, etc.

JFK's head, when hit by the kill shot, is driven back and to the left, back and to the left. It is indisputable that the shot came from the right front. Absolutely, positively beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The fact that intelligent, learned men charged with investigating this crime watched that movement over and over again, then propagated a lie to the American public proves there was a cover-up at the highest levels of our government. The cover-up continues to this day.

[rasputin1952]

74. The main reason there is so much contention aboout this...

is that it shows us just how far some people in power will go to protect themselves and other instruments of the gov't to ensure their survival over the public they are sworn to protect.

The fabric of the coverup began to take shape immediately following the first shot. Cameras were confiscated by unknown "agents of the gov't", witnesses were badgered and kept away from certain areas. Confusion and fear ran rampant, as would be expected, and this was used to good advantage by those that wished to play out the whole drama.

The Dallas PD were overridden by the Feds, and much of the investigation by the Dallas PD fell flat on it face. Much of the testimony was thrown out, and far too many of the witnesses and primary figures met with untimely deaths. But there were a few brave souls that continued to ask questions. Those that did were branded as "kooks & traitors", (where have we heard that before?).

The HSCA was established because pressure was put on the gov't to come clean, but even they ran into many roadblocks. They concluded that their was evidence of a conspiracy, but left it at that. Why was there no calling for a deeper investigation? If there was an inkling of conspiracy, the case should never had been closed until all avenues of evidence were well cleared. The cloak of conspiracy was seen, but no one wanted to look under that cloak, this is the gov't we're asked to trust?

Regardless of the outcome, regardless of who is embarrassed by the evidence, it is imperative in a democracy that transparency be maintained in gov't dealings. there are indeed some cases where it is not prudent to disseminate information, but the assassination of a leader is not one of them. If the conspiracy was internal, or if it was put iin motion by foreign powers, makes no difference. Those that set up and ensured the results of that assassination, need to be brought into public scrutiny and condemned for the deeds they were responsible for.

:kick: