Bush says "Christians, Muslims worship same God" and supporters freak

[NewYorkerfromMass]

I stumbled on this controversy on Freepland just now:

LONDON (BP)--In an answer likely to upset evangelicals and other members of his Christian base, President Bush said Nov. 20 that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

Speaking at a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Bush was asked his thoughts on how the war on terrorism and his promotion of freedom intersects with his Christian faith.

"I do say that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every person," Bush answered. "I also condition it by saying freedom is not America's gift to the world. It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same God."

http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=17133

Here's the Freeper thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1025533/posts

Did Bush really commit a no-no with this? As an ex-Catholic I don't see the big deal, but perhaps others have a better perspective on what it means to his "base".

[Lefta Dissenter]

1. As an agnostic

even I gasped when he said that! He is such a MORON (or, in the prefered freeper lingo, MORAN)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Conceptually I think it's correct

because ultimately aren't we all worshipping a higher being (creator)?

[wryter2000]

17. Of course, it's the same God

And it's the God GeoW is going to have a lot of 'splaining to do when he dies.

[zonmoy]

67. Of course

you are assuming that god is actually a good being that wont award bush for causing chaos and misury.

[slor]

71. LOL...

I like the cut of yer jib pardner!

[creativelcro]

26. you could also say:

aren't you all worshipping the same delusional non-sense ?

>>
because ultimately aren't we all worshipping a higher being (creator)?
>>

[PVnRT]

49. Nice to know I'm delusional

Thanks, you sooooo much better than me :eyes:

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[youngred]

164. That's just rude and uncalled for

someone has a different opinion than you and you call them delusional... quite adult and logical and mature of you :eyes:

[youngred]

163. and one could be arrogant and rude too!

what a way to win friends and influence people!

[bmbmd]

53. That's probably the smartest thing he has ever said...

and one of the few things I agree with.

[PurityOfEssence]

55. Actually not

Please feel free to correct me, anybody, but I think there's a whopper of a distinction here.

Yes, the god of Abraham is the same culprit in both of these guess systems, but whereas the Muslims believe that Jesus was just another enlightened mortal, (along with Moses) Christians believe that Jesus was not just the son of god, but in varying degrees of murkiness, god himself. Thus, the Christian god is the big Sky Chief AND Jesus all wrapped up in one and infused with or without a holy ghost, who is simultaneously god, whereas the Muslim god is a stripped-down model sans Jesus and wispy one.

So, it would seem that they're not the same god, since one encompasses the once-living and now-eternal guy, who's his own son (maybe that's why the backwoodsy incest freepers feel such kinship: the guy's his own offspring...) while the other group only believes in this god-guy himself.

Am I splitting hair shirts here, or does this constitute a rather serious distinction?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. Posts 22 and 50 seem to cover it

It's really just a fundie faux pas more than anything, and what Cocoa says in 52 is interesting too regarding Bush's political posturing.

[Scairp]

87. You are not quite correct

Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God, the only perfect human being that has ever existed, and that the way to salvation and therefore to God is through him. He is referred to as The Lord Jesus Christ, not God himself. All three of the major religions have the same roots and it is clear that they worship the same deity known as God. They merely believe different things in how they worship. Didn't you ever go to Sunday School?

[Barbara917]

132. Yes. I went to Sunday School

God in three persons, blessed trinity.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.

[mmonk]

145. a concept of the same God

(trinity) that came into being in Christianity (not sure which century).

[youngred]

165. No, there is no distinction

and must one be so rude in the terms one uses?

You don't believe, fine, don't denigrate the beliefs of others

[loudnclear]

72. His supporters "freak" because they don't know what God they serve.

It's the same God of Abraham, Ishmael, Issac, and Jacob. But then, they don't read their Bibles, they just let Pat Robertson, Falwell, and the like tell them what they should believe.

[tom_paine]

82. No, Roberston, Falwell, Bush, Ashcroft and their patsies serve Satan.

Isn't it funny how so many of Satan's Minions cloak themselves in pious religiosity?

[Scott Lee]

97. True. To this day I cannot get any freeper to NAME their "God"

That God has a name, of course. But they are too stupid and uneducated to know it, which is why when I ask them for the specific name, all they do is hurl insults and try to change the subject.

Hilarious.

[Some Moran]

143. Yhwh? (Or Jhvh for the weirdos among us?)

Yep...

We call him God though, while Muslims call him Allah, the Arabic word meaning "One True God".

[Scott Lee]

180. "Allah" is actually Arab for "The Other" (other than Man)

but you got the right idea.

[truthspeaker]

119. no

not all of us

[NewYorkerfromMass]

120. Look. I am an atheist too

but it was for the sake of the arguement I said "all". Sorry for the implication that I'm forcing belief on anyone.

[truthspeaker]

125. OK

The "we" threw me off.

[youngred]

162. yes, but its also literally the same god

coming from roots in the same tradition

[Homer12]

2. Freepers really need to do their homework on Religion

[PurityOfEssence]

57. Once you have an answer, research is unnecessary,

as are thinking, tolerating, reading, learning and any number of other torturous activities that one should only engage in under duress...

[Loonman]

3. A broken clock is even right twice a day

For Bush maybe it's once a decade.

[0007]

153. If I hear that broken clock thingy again I'm going scream!

[Dookus]

4. well...

he's right.

Jews, Christians and Moslems all worship the "God of Abraham", as described in the Old Testament.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I can see how this would outrage his fundie friends....

As someone who grew up in a Southern Baptist household, even Catholics were looked down upon as a false religion. To claim Allah and Jehovah (or Yahweh) are the same diety would be nothing short of blasphemy in the eyes of most the types I grew up around.

And I can tell you that time has broadened their perspective by much at all.

[La_Serpiente]

6. GOOD F^&%($(#e(#%*#%*

The last thing Bush should be doing is being a theologian.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

President of Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Commission agrees w/U

Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Commission, said that while he respects Bush he believes the president is wrong.

"Like many other Americans I applaud the president as a man of deep religious faith who attempts to bring that faith conviction to bear on public policy issues," Land told Baptist Press. "However, we should always remember that he is Commander-in-Chief, not theologian-in-chief. And when he says that he believes that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, he is simply mistaken."

[Mari333]

8. They are having childish fits over this LOL

Like little kids in a sandbox at recess "MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD"...

what a bunch of maroons.

[Solomon]

62. LOL. Thanks for the

laugh Mari.

[redqueen]

9. Ah, beauty...

How lovely to see his 'european' message coming home to the people used to hearing only his 'us' message.

It's quite different, you know. He has no moral compass and so has to shift with the wind to avoid being seen for what he is.

I think it's beautiful that his duplicity is being revealed to the goons he's pandered to up to now.

[msmcghee]

10. What a hoot . .

. . Freeper Christians arguing over whose invisble cloud being is worthy of true Godness. I especially enjoyed this . .

I for one am damn near ready to let the "wiping out" begin. See I have this strange desire to see my children grow up and prosper. If they tell intend to kill our women and children, I say we show them what the killing of women and children is all about .... until they stop designing ways to kill ours.

The Palestinian children are useless to the world as their elders (3/4 of whom hate us and want Israel destroyed) have wasted their lives by turning them into rabid little animals who whack themselves on the head with the Koran at "school" where their maps don't include Israel. They're not children ...they're larvae. Such "children" become adults who have nothing to offer the world besides strife and suffering.

Some of us are carrying real anger right now, of the biblical type. Some of us are very concerned over ours and our loved ones future. If this sentiment is allowed to permeate and Christians do decide to what the Arabs suggest, which is entering into a "holy war,” things are going to get ugly indeed.

[drfemoe]

19. You know

with that kind of idoiotic slathering you would never understand how this country became enslaved to that kind of idiotic slathering.

[htuttle]

20. "anger, of the biblical type"?

I swear, have I been reading the same book as these people?

It's been quite awhile since I was in Sunday school, but I honestly don't remember any of this 'biblical anger' stuff.

What book are they reading this in?

[donotpassgo]

39. The Book of Judge Roy Moore.

[Nadienne]

43. Makes them indistinguishable from the muslims they despise...

[Bridget Burke]

45. Psalms 137

"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land?
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.
O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

Landover Baptist Church offers inspiring T-shirts & other accessories (including a Teddy Bear) featuring the last line.

www.cafeshops.com/landoverbaptist/75570

[aquart]

105. Old Testament.

Really. Lots of adventure, sex, bloody vengeance, really. Fun book. Maybe I wouldn't recommend it as a moral guidepost, but a fun read.

[SemperEadem]

83. mandatory therapy for freepers... they've got too many issues

[Nadienne]

11. Yea!

I hope it pisses his fanatics off.

[karlschneider]

12. Well, I read some of that thread. Now for a shower. But it's ironic in

a humorous way how they get into infighting. They're all insane, and most of them are dangerous.

[moz4prez]

13. this non-denominational missionary dude was explaining to me

the differences between Islam and Christianity just yesterday. He related the differences to the story of Cain & Abel, comparing Muslims to Cain in how their sacrifice excluded the shedding of blood, making it somehow less effective. sort of a moot point, if you ask me, since, as time has told, both christians and muslims have always appreciated the merits of animal sacrifice! :)

[Jacobin]

33. Yeah, think about it

Communion is actually ritual canibalism....eat Jesus' body and drink his blood.

Very attractive to the pagan in us all.

[Jacobin]

37. Politically correct answer in liberal U.S. and Eurpopean circles

Anathema to the fundies, who, apparently, believe there are lots of gods (monotheism gone?) and only Jesus' pop is "real".

Gotta hand it to the Chimp. He knew the right answer for Britain. He just forgot it might be reported here

When you get into this weird shit, the fighting never ends.

[youngred]

166. consdering most Christian traditions come from Pagan Tradtions

as an attempt to ease the conversion of the Pagans, yeah it was

[JailBush]

14. I thnk the key difference is HOW they worship...

Muslims like to blow things up, while Christians like to blow...

Uh, NEVERMIND!

[wryter2000]

15. I'm in love

I for one am damn near ready to let the "wiping out" begin. See I have this strange desire to see my children grow up and prosper. If they tell intend to kill our women and children, I say we show them what the killing of women and children is all about .... until they stop designing ways to kill ours.

Ooooh, I want this guy to kill some Muslim women and children to defend me and mine. <gag>

[Ellen Forradalom]

21. the moran needs to do the math

Good luck wiping out a billion Muslims spread out across the world. Not gonna happen. Sheesh.

[PurityOfEssence]

59. Um...you mean, "do the myth"?

All jokes aside, though, once you believe in fantasies and fairytales, mere reality is something not even worth the effort to scoff at. The one true whatever will transcendently triumph, probably just this side of the big apolyptic rapture. Numbers, schmumbers; these poor non-caucasians are simply deluded by some inferior idol, just like General Boykin done sed.

[Zero Gravitas]

31. No

he doesn't want to defend (in however twisted a way) you or me or people like us. We are just a little further down his list of sub-humans unworthy to walk "his" earth than Muslims are. They'll turn their demented murderous rage on us "libruls" soon enough.

The cattle cars are laying in wait for the next time.

[stopbush]

16. Dupe deleted by poster

[Malva Zebrina]

18. there is a movement

I have seen it other places, to foster tolerance amongst the three monotheistic religions. That they all worship the god of Abraham is cited as proof that they all worship the same god. I don't think this is correct--Jews definately do not worship the same god as the Christians--they stuck with Abraham's, but the Christians added on to it with Jesus and the holy trinity, so the god for Christians is quite different from that of the Jews. I am not that familiar with Islam so I cannot comment on what god they worship and if it is the same, but common sense would tell one that it certainly cannot be the same, for if it were, they would not be fighting each other, one claiming the better religion and faith over the other--although Jews do not really do this--other Xtains have cliamed to be the one true religion over them all.

[kalashnikov]

32. Actually Jews belive in the same god as christians

but they dont belive that Jesus was the messiah. Basically they both believe in the same god but differ on how he is presented to man.

[Malva Zebrina]

85. I see what you are trying to say

but you do not seem to realize that the Christian god is a god of the trinity--the father, the son (Jesus) and the holy ghost--all rolled up into one almighty, everlasting, all knowing, all powerful god. This is NOT the god the jews worship.

[kalashnikov]

113. If thats true than how come christians

call themselves monotheistic?

[youngred]

167. No

Rabbis and priests agree that the God is one in the same, which is why many Christians believe non-converted Jews will go to heaven because they are still the people of God.

[Malva Zebrina]

179. How can they if they do not believe that Jesus is part of the god?

That Jesus is the "son" and that the god contains actually three in one personalities--the father, the son (Jesus) and the holy ghost all rolled up in one god. I do not think that the god of Abraham or the Jews or the Muslims adheres to this trinitarian god which was actually made up far later than the years in which Jesus lived --some three and more hundred years later, it was decided that the god had actually three gods in one. Why was this earth shattering revelation made by the Nicene Council?

The Nicene council met in the fourth century AD, 325 AD and decided upon the trinity dogma--this is NOT the god of the Jews and there is no justification for any Christian claiming that they share with the Jews the same god. Here is what they came up with, essentially and it gives fealty to the reighing Christians.

The Nicene Creed


I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, Begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, Begotten, not made, Being of one substance with the Father, By whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from Heaven, And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the virgin Mary, And was made man, And was crucified also for us by Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, And the third day He rose again according to the scriptures, And ascended into Heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead: Whose kingdom shall have no end.

Jews do not believe that Mary was a virgin who birthed a god all by herself without any human intervention. Further, they do not believe that it was to be a virgin at all that would birth a messiah-the propehcy that the Christians like to quote, is actually a misrepresentation of the translation. It does not, in it's interpretation and translation, say "virgin"

http://members.tripod.com/jbrooks2/Notorious_Virgin_Birth_Fraud.html

the language of the OT , and that which has been coroburated by the Jewish scholars, says, "young woman", or maiden, not "virgin" .

Christians eager to gain more advocants and believers into their fold, bastardized this to make it conform to their pagan incorporated beliefs and thereby making the conversion easier. Many gods, in the pagan world, were born of virgins--many--it was an accepted form of worship to believe that a virgin carried an birthed a god. \ In order to accomodate the culture, Christian hierophants saw to it that a "virgin" Mary, birthed their god, Jesus. He was then made into an arm of the god of Abraham--who now contained a second god, Jesus, and a third god, the holy ghost.

[opihimoimoi]

34. And how would we tiny ass Humans know which God is which and who came

first and who is the Mother of All Gods?. etc.??

If the Universe was created..... and if we look, its a very big Universe, the Creator must be one son of a bitch powerful guy/woman/thing.

I seriously doubt whatever it IS, would be talking to us tiny ameobaesque Humans. It would be like one of us talking to the microscopic creatures in a Petri Dish.

Lets change the subject and go eat ramen.

[msmcghee]

100. Each person's God . .

. . is a very powerful meme. It will ultimately cause the person to fear and despise anyone who is not infected with the same meme. If other religions (or atheists) are in any way antagonistic toward theirs then there is almost no limit to the amount of violence that could result.

What you are seeing in those Freeper threads is a seething fear and hatred - a need to protect their God memes - that is just below the surface. That could erupt into immense violence in the near future.

For very religious people, other Gods are dangerous competing memes. They may give lip service to accepting those people's Gods - but in the end, only one God meme can exist in any one mind - there will have to be a day of reckoning.

[youngred]

169. ultimately cause?

in all cases? Sorry, I don't care what anyone else believes. it's their belief and it doesn't lessen "My God".

[Nadienne]

46. they all think they are worshipping different gods

(maybe not all of them, I guess)

But the Christian Bible, the Muslim Koran, and the Jewish Torah all have the same story of creation.

And Jesus was not just the Son of God; he was also a Jew.

[Malva Zebrina]

86. So was Paul

but he was the one who effectively disengaged the Jews from his brand spanking new religion--Christianiy. Paul saw opportunity to be the best salesman in the area and jumped on it. He is something like the arrogant fundamentalist proselytizers that are so annoying to us modern folk today. Unfortunately, the Jerusalem Jews,those who actually were in contact with the man Jesus during his lifetime (Paul was not) who were opposed to Paul's interpretation of Jewish law and his willingess to invalidate the Jewish law, were forced to go out of business when the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70AD. Jesus was a Jew and faithfully adehered to the Jewish rule of law--Paul made him into a different man--he mythologized the human man Jesus to the point where many now doubt that Jesus even existed.

[Nadienne]

129. Wow, I didn't know that

and it certainly doesn't surprise me.

[bloom]

148. What Fundamentalists believe according to:

http://fundamentalistforums.com/


http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/3440/webring.html


* You should subscribe to the doctrinal statement of the World Congress of Fundamentalists.
* You should also agree with us in that our final authority lies in the Greek and Hebrew originals of the Bible.
* You should believe in ecclesiastical separation and separation from the world. We do not want to be identified with any fellowship that is part of the pseudo-fundamentalist or new evangelical movement. We do not endorse modernism, liberalism, the National Council or the World Council of Churches.
* You should agree with us that the charismatic movement is unscriptural.



A Fundamentalist is a born-again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ who

1. Maintains an immovable allegiance to the inerrant, infallible, and verbally inspired Bible;
2. Believes that whatever the Bible says is so;
3. Judges all things by the Bible and is judged only by the Bible;
4. Affirms the foundational truths of the historic Christian Faith:

The doctrine of the Trinty
The incarnation, virgin birth, subsitutionary atonement, bodily resurrection, ascension into Heaven and Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ
The new birth through regeneration of the Holy Spirit
The resurrection of the saints to life eternal
The resurrection of the ungodly to final judgment and eternal death
The fellowship of the saints,who are the body of Christ;

5. Practices fidelity to that Faith and endeavors to preach it to every creature;
6. Exposes and separates from all eclesiatical denial of the Faith, compromise with error, and apostasy from the Truth; and
7. Earnestly contends for the Faith once delivered.

[youngred]

168. They are all the same, based in Abraham

Divided by Issac and Ishmael and then again with Jesus.

The Muslims recognize Moses and Jesus as Great Prophets. The Christians recognize Moses as a great Prophet. Some Jewish Scholars believe Jesus to have been a prophet, though not the messiah.

[paulk]

22. Jesus Christ is considered a prophet in the Koran

He's mentioned more than once. The God of Islam is the same God that Christians and Jews worship.
Bush is correct.
This usually comes as a great shock to many fundamentalists.

[mikehiggins]

35. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!!

Jesus IS God. The Jews and the Muslims do not worship Jesus nor do they acknowledge His Divinity.

Honest.

I have it on a high authority that Christ put Bush in the White House in the first place.

Turning his back on his personal Lord and Savior may be a good move to make while talking to the godless Brits but you can be sure it will come back to haunt Bush in the months to come.

And what does he do now? Go back on what he said? Explain?

There are few people as unforgiving as devout bibly thumpers.

Dubya really stepped in it this time, and I think we ought to point that out at every opportunity.

;^) out of the mouths of babes, uhh, I mean, boobs!

[paulk]

63. Well, I hope it does bite him in the ass

That freeper thread indicates it might.

those people are nuts!

[okieinpain]

69. bibly thumpers, funny sh**

.

[Scott Lee]

70. You are correct. Referred to as "Issa", I believe

[wryter2000]

23. Now all we need is Roy Moore

Run, Roy, run.

[supernova]

24. Ooh biting the hand that feeds

As a fellow xtain, I know I shouldn't take pleasure in the internal strife of other xtians. But WOW! This is going to be fun!! :D

And for the record, yes it is all the same God. "The God of Abraham, The God of Jacob, and The God of Isaac" -- each holy book for each religion repeats this specific phrase.

People who base their theology on the premise that theirs is superior to other theologies very much run into problems with this kind of stuff.

[Zero Gravitas]

25. But, but, but

I though "our" god was bigger than "their" god?

[mikehiggins]

40. What does Coulter

have to say about this one? I thought we were supposed to roll into Arab-land and kill all their leaders and make them all Christians.

Where does that put Bushie-boy now? Are they going to recall all his action figures?

[Nikia]

27. I thought everyone knew that

I shouldn't say everyone but I didn't think that would be a contraversial statement. I have heard this statement from Moslem, Jewish, and Christian theologians. Most very general history/ geography books say that. Christians, Muslems, and Jews just have different versions of the story. Of course they are more different than Catholics and Protestants, but it really comes down to theology and whose version of the story you believe.

[Liberal Veteran]

28. Someone needs to remind the freepers that disagreement with Bush..

....is treason!!!! Why these people disagreeing with our God-appointed president are no better than them there traitorous Dixie Chicks!!!!!!

[freesqueeze]

74. How UNCIVLE of them!

Islam, the word itself, means 'one god'.

Muslims believe that there is only one god so questions of whether someone worships a different god is ludicrous (to Muslims).

I am a Muslim married to a Jew living in the bible belt and I see the most fanatics claiming to be Christian.

Jesus is a wild card, worshiped by Christians, revered by muslims, and seen as a misunderstood Rabbi by Jews.

My thoughts are that there is only one god and She doesn’t have any interest in these false divisions created from our own self doubts.

That’ll be $0.02 please.

Ah Salam Mu Allah Kum

[theboss]

29. He's right

I mean, he is. We all worship the God of Abraham. How we worship Him is different. Jews follow the Laws of Moses. Christians follow the New Testament of Jesus. Muslims follow the prophecy of Muhammad. That's it more or less in a nutshell. But we all derive from the same place.

[shamrock]

30. I'll give it a try

I'll give this a try, even though I'm kind of rusty with my Bible studies. Christians are followers of Christ...we get to God through Christ. The muslims believe in the God of the old-testament(same God as in the Bible) before we had Christ. According to the Bible we are all sinners and cannot save ourselves...this is why Jesus was sent to take our sins upon himself so that we could be forgiven. So...Christians have a savior, which, I don't believe Muslims do. The difference is Jesus, and therefore even though Christians have the same God the religions are very different without a "savior". By saying that we have the same God a person is implying that the religions are not that different...and they are. Christians use the Old-Testament for study but follow the New-Testament which is very different from the Old-Testament. One example that comes to mind is "an eye-for-an eye", which in the New Testament has been changed to "turn the other cheek". Anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong here, but think this is how it is.

[Nadienne]

51. almost...

"Christians use the Old-Testament for study but follow the New-Testament"

They (I guess "we") really only seem to do this when it is convenient for us. Otherwise it's all holy wrath and righteous anger...

[msmcghee]

101. They reserve the Old Testament . .

. . for treatment of liberals and Democrats. Stoning and smiting and eyes for eyes are the order of the day.

For their own, it's "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

[HFishbine]

36. Do Posters There Ever Read What They Write?

One of the problems with Islam is that the more devout tend to become more violent or anti-social, which is in contrast with most other religions where the truly devout become more peaceful or concentrate on good-works or inner peace.

<snip>

I for one am damn near ready to let the "wiping out" begin.

<snip>

I say we show them what the killing of women and children is all about ....

<snip>


The Palestinian children are useless to the world as their elders...They're not children ...they're larvae.

[zonmoy]

73. What rock have you been living under

I dont know of any religion that wouldnt treat believers in other religions worse than dogs when they have power over them.

[Catch22Dem]

38. WOW - "Palestinian children are useless larvae"

Palestinian children are "useless larvae" UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!!!

"The Palestinian children are useless to the world as their elders (3/4 of whom hate us and want Israel destroyed) have wasted their lives by turning them into rabid little animals who whack themselves on the head with the Koran at "school" where their maps don't include Israel. They're not children ...they're larvae. Such "children" become adults who have nothing to offer the world besides strife and suffering."

[donotpassgo]

44. Palestinian children are "useless larvae"

That must be in some newfangled edition of the Bible.

[Liberal Veteran]

47. It's a verse from the Republican Bible....

Corporation 1:10, "And verily I sayeth unto you, the people of an as yet undiscovered land are the people of God and I shall smile upon them and their brethren, but lo, the elders of Palestine giveth birth to larvae, not human and I encourage thee to heap scorn upon them."

[Catch22Dem]

56. I'll be damned

I had no idea. I'll have to pick up a copy.

[prolesunited]

61. Anybody who has associations with bloggers on the Left

Please pass this beautiful Christian statement along. If they are going to take posts from here, we might as well return the favor. :evilgrin:

I'm serious. If you've passed it along, please post to whom here.

[Nadienne]

41. Wow, the interesting debates on the freeper page...

Divide and Conquer!!! Yea!!!

[Catch22Dem]

42. Here's another gem

One girl wrote:
"That is why we find good people in all religions."

The response she got was:
"Are you a religous person?
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Gotta love those freepers!!!

[Zero Gravitas]

48. very interesting and frightening read

readering the freepers argue religion is an interesting but scary insight into the Medieval mind. I couldn't stomach reading the entire thread, but I suspect they will end up dividing into factions over how many angels can dance ont he head of a pin.

Worship the Gourd! No worship the Shoe! It's not a Shoe, its a Sandal etc.

[hatrack]

64. "No, no!! It is a sign that we should gather shoes together!!"

I'm sure Pat, Jerry and the rest of the Thumpers will quickly correct Smirky upon his return.

[PVnRT]

50. To right-wing fundie wackos, yeah, this is a no-no

See, they believe that those filthy Muslims aren't really human beings at all, since they haven't accepted Jesus into their hearts. Therefore, to say that they worship the same God is to say that they are equal, and the fundies can't have that. They have to be superior or their world crumbles around them.

[Cocoa]

52. he's lying

he's pretending in the UK to have a civilized religious outlook, but in reality he believes what Boykin believes.

[remfan]

95. Bingo!

And he will surely do or say something upon his return to bring the "faithful" back into the fold. Rove or Reed will see to it.

[Kamika]

54. well no they dont think its the same god, but it doesnt bother them

In fundie world the muslim god isnt the christian God.

But I dont think they will get too upset.. most just think he says these things to please the pc crowd and thinks Bush "knows" better .

I must say though Im pleasantly surprised.. As a christian I see some posts there that aren't totally idiotic.. one guy even wrote this.

vTo: milan

Then he is not a Christian.

What gives you the right to declare who is Christian and who is not? You sound like the muslim extremists talking about other muslims.


105 posted on 11/20/2003 6:08 AM PST by Snowy (Annoy a lib -> Work hard, earn money, and be happy!)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies >




Im still amazed that there are still so many idiots that think the name of the muslim god is "allah" Since its just the name for god in arabic.. even christian arabs says allah

[drfemoe]

75. atheist

I used to work for a fascinating ME man. He was a former corporate attorney in the UAE. His mother was Jewish, but he was very anti-jewish (Israel). His father was an Arab Muslim (Lebanese if I remember). "O", my boss, was educated in Paris at a Catholic school. He spoke arabic, french and english, sometimes all in the same sentence. But he claimed he was a muslim atheist, he did not believe in Allah. .. or any others possibilities of course.

I've heard lots of christians say so and so is not a real christian. That's a favorite in my experience. How many christian factions are there anyway?

I used to think they were the only religion that did that, but I guess there is evidence that it happens among Muslims and Jews as well. Again, many factions.

Does this happen in religions outside the big 3? Like did you ever hear a Buddhist accuse another Buddhist of being a heretic? Pagans? Hindu? Let me know.

[knight_of_the_star]

104. I'm pretty sure that most pagans don't

When a pagan accuses another of heresy and suchlike they usually get laughed at. A lot.

[bloom]

150. yes - i have heard of a rift among the Tibetans

Some people going off and having their own thing that is at odds with the Dalai Lama.

I imagine that it happens with any group with more than about 10 people. Or would it take that many?

[youngred]

171. not amongst pagans

but yes there are heretics among hindus and buddhists. Though they generally aren't treated as poorly as Heretical (I'd say creative thinking peoples) Christians and Muslims. And yes there are several different sects of Islam as well, the Two largest being the Sunni's and the Shi'ites

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

122. Stupid freeper sig

"Annoy a lib -> Work hard, earn money, and be happy!" I work hard, earn money, and am happy. Is anyone here annoyed by me?

Edit: proper verb flexing.

[absolutezero]

60. wait a second

bush was actually right about something? :wtf:

holy crap! bush actually made a true, factual statement :Christians and Muslims (and jews) all worship the same god.

Yes this is true, all these religions have the same roots, the only difference is in the practice

[foo_bar]

77. well, not exactly the same

If my reading is correct, denying the "coexistence" of Christ in a God-to-God comparison is an indirect form of Arian heresy. In other words, defining the Christian God in any context outside of the New Testament is an induced negation of consubstantiality that makes St. Augustine cry.

But since all politics are local, the American God is fairer skinned than the Egyptian Coptic one, and more likely to reward his subjects with Lamborghinis. I think Bush would be on firmer theological turf saying we read from the same book, but I respect the sentiment.

[Nikia]

102. Well, I suppose I am heretic

Maybe, someday I won't be. I have been thinking about theology since I've been about seven. Like Arius, I think that Christianity should make sense as much as possible. Jesus brought God to the common person without the need for a religious hierarchy to tell people how and what to believe. If Jesus meant for only the official Church to tell people what to believe, he would have been working closely with the Sanhedrian during his ministry instead of opposing them and preaching to "sinners". Yes, the believer does not need to discover everything for him or herself. The words of ministers, priests, and theologians of the past and present can be helpful and should be considered since they studied and thought on these issues for a considerable time. They are humans though just like all of us. We also have Scripture, logic, faith, spiritual and other life experience as well as others sharing their own ideas whether or not they be "holy people". To me, it does not make sense that Jesus is God as God is God through my own logic, through Scripture, and my own spiritual experience at this point in time. Arius's version makes more sense to me and comes close (though not completely mirrors) to my own belief on the subject. I think that many Christians differ theologically from traditional theology. For most purposes, I'd consider myself Protestant and Protestant theology allows the believer to disagree with the Church a bit. Even if it didn't, it doesn't mean that my version of Christinaity is any less valid than official Christianity.

[bloom]

151. Well - if God became a different God once you turn the page

into the New Testament - that is news to me.


BTW - I don't expect my definition of 'God' to be the same as anyone elses. I can't hold with any religions that think they are going to define 'God' for me. I may be closer to the Taoists than the usual Christians.

[0rganism]

176. delete me (n/t)

()

[Kamika]

65. jesus.. reading that almost made me want to become a atheist

Remind me to stay away from freeper religious threads.. they make me ashamed of calling myself a christian

[Scott Lee]

66. He's right, for once

Abraham is the common ancestor to Judaism, Christianity (which is a sect of Judaism) and Islam. The "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" is, therefore, the same to all in the Western religious realm.

I'm sure the ignorant freepers are flipping out about this. It's destroying some of their dearest held misconceptions and bigotries.

[_Jumper_]

68. Tribalism works its magic again

:eyes:

[Nikia]

76. As a Christian, I believe God and Jesus are separate

Perhaps, it is semantics but I don't see how they can be the same. Jesus referred to God as his father or accepted being called the son of God. He did not say "I am God." If he was the same as God, he would not need to pray to God. My reading of the Bible suggests that Jesus was created by God and is separate from God even though he is more divine than a normal human, even a normal human prophet . I think that the Holy Spirit is more of a inner light/God shared spiritual feeling/communication that is not an entity like a person or how we think of God. I think that Moslems do believe the same God that I believe in. They just have a different version of the truth. Even if God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are in some way intertwined, they still believe in the God of the Old Testament (written from their perspective)which has to be at least somewhat separate from Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I think that this is theology and not really a serious distinction in which God is worshipped.

[foo_bar]

79. it's called Arianism

http://www.triunegod.org/heresies/

[TomNickell]

88. Ok, I read that....

What does it mean?

[Mattforclark]

91. It means...

The Aryans believed that the trinity concept was incorrect, while the winners did not. Aryanism as a 'heresy' was crushed by the Christian authorities during the decline of the Roman empire. 2nd or 3rd century, IIRC.

[foo_bar]

98. no, it's named after a Libyan theologian

named "Arius". The Aryans were into Shiva and Indra at the time.

[Barbara917]

138. As Christian I believe in the Trinity

God in three persons. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. It is not a hard concept for one who believes in the omnipresence of God.

[wabeewoman]

78. Mine's better/bigger than yours!

That is my problem with many organized religions-usually the extremists among them. Lack of tolerance. It takes a small mind to think their way is the only way and that they positively KNOW what is right and who is God. The reality is that it is a way to make themselves feel bigger and more important and justify hating other people. I've often said that if these are the people who are going to be in heaven, I'd just as soon pass.

[sujan]

80. I commend him for stating that

but does he really believe his own words?

[DrWeird]

81. Wasn't Mohammed a christian before being visited by the angel?

Isn't that why Muslims believe Jesus was the son of God and the second coming of Christ? Isn't this why Muslims treat christians so respectfully?

[Astarho]

99. No

Mohammad was never a Christian although he would have doubtlessly had some contact with them. He was disillusioned with Arab Paganism and he was visited by the angel Gabriel who revealed the Koran to him. The angel appeared to "correct" God's word. The Jews had divided into sects and corrupted Gods message. The Christians worshiped Jesus as the Son of God, eventhough according to Islam, he was just a prophet. Mohammad was given the correct version of God's word.

The reason Muslims treat Christians and Jews (until Israel screwed everything up) well is because they are "Peoples of the Book". God's word was revealed to them too, they just got confused.

[DrWeird]

155. Mohammed certainly wasn't a pagan.

He was clearly abrahamic. If he wasn't a christian or a jew what would he have been? Jews recognize Jesus as a prophet, I believe, but it is my understanding that muslims believe jesus was the son of God and in the second coming, albeit that Jesus is not God, for there is no God but God. So the whole christian bit about only getting to God through Jesus is out with muslms, but I understood the believe the rest about Jesus. Indicating that Mohammed bent more towards christianity.

[Astarho]

181. Mohammad was influenced by

both Judaism and Christianity, but he did not profess to be one of either religion.

The Koran mentions Jesus as the Messiah and Muslims do believe he was one of God's Apostles. They believe in the Virgin Birth and I think the Resurection, but they do not believe Jesus was the son of God:

... O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

-- Koran 4:171

It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

-- Koran 19:35

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

[youngred]

172. no, and they don't believe he was the son of God

Muhammed as a Merchant traveled to Jerusalem where he was strongly influenced by Christian teachinhgs, but never actually converted. Instead he went back to Mecca and lo and behold was given the last words of god (as Muhammed is the last Prophet) to the people which written down is the Koran

[truthspeaker]

84. his base thinks Moslems worship Satan

Seriously.

I'm not sure that people outside the US understand the amount of influence that a small number of religious extremists have here.

[Khephra]

90. Some of us do

I was talking to my conservative uncle--who, I should add, HATES the Religious Right--and we were talking about radical Islam (which he's studied for 20 years), and I realized this fact: RW Islam needs bodies, because they're not "in control" of the world. RW Christians only need ONE person to be in control of the US, as that one person can do just about anything by ordering it done.

[Scott Lee]

96. One of his generals thinks that Muslims are "idolators" too

Ignorance is the guiding concept of the Bush Terror.

[Mattforclark]

89. More ammo for Roy Moore?

God, I hope so.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

123. Maybe this is the straw that makes Roy Moore run for President...

...and Naderize W all the way to Crawford.

[Khephra]

92. Sometimes I'm glad us Gnostics

are flying under the radar of everyone.

:evilgrin:

[Az]

126. Um, you do know what a Gnostic is don't you?

Irony in subject intended.

I am on a personal quest to change peoples awareness of the word agnostic. It is badly used and does not convey the information people are typically asking when it is given as a response. When asked do you believe in god there are two possible answers. Yes and No. You either do or do not believe in god. This puts you into the theist or atheist camp depending on how you answer the question. If asked do you know if there is a god you again reply yes or no. But this is a different question than the other.

Atheism and theism ask what you believe. Agnosticism and Gnosticism ask about what you know. If by some means you are made to be aware of the absolute existance or nonexistance of god then you could be said to be Gnostic. If however you do not absolutely know there is a god (not believe really really strong but actually know) then you are agnostic.

This may explain why some people get a tad upset when the response to the question "Do you believe in god" is met with "Oh I'm an agnostic". It doesn't answer the question.

[mumon]

182. Well, not really...

When asked do you believe in god there are two possible answers. Yes and No. You either do or do not believe in god.

There's also "I choose not to consider the question, because it's pointless."

It's pointless because a) you have to agree on a definition, and b) there's too much else to do in life.

If asked do you know if there is a god you again reply yes or no.

There's also "I choose not to consider the question, because it's pointless."

It's pointless because a) you have to agree on definitions ("God" and "know" in this case), and b) there's too much else to do in life.

[Astarho]

183. I think he meant this kind of Gnostic

Gnosis and gnosticism are still rather arcane terms, though in the last two decades the words have been increasingly encountered in the vocabulary of contemporary society. Gnosis derives from Greek, and connotes "knowledge" or the "act of knowing". (On first hearing, it is sometimes confused with another more common term of the same root but opposite sense: agnostic, literally "not knowing", a knower of nothing.) The Greek language differentiates between rational, propositional knowledge, and the distinct form of knowing obtained not by reason, but by personal experience or perception. It is this latter knowledge, gained from experience, from an interior spark of comprehension, that constitutes gnosis.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html

Although I see your point about the difference between athiesm and agnosticism, and how they really are two different questions, but the line between belief and knowledge is often blurred.

[Terwilliger]

93. I can say with surety that muslims and christians believe in the same god

because neither actually exists

[BootinUp]

94. Every time he says something stupid

like this, I think of my other heroes the Dixie Chicks! We are ashamed!!!!!

If only the RW gets its just due for propping this poser up and getting him elected.

edited
Just to clarify I am sick and tired of Bush spewing his religious beliefs on the world. We have enough of it already. All this is going to do is further inflame those who disagree with him. We need a unifier not a divider. Bush talking about Muslims religion is not what we need in our president.

[leesa]

103. Excellent! Alienate the dumber than dirt evangelicals!! Yes!

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Terwilliger]

107. oh....you're being serious!

well I was laughing :scared:

[thinkingwoman]

109. the jewish g-d is named Yahweh

not Jehovah.

Nice try.

Also, some Jews believe that Jesus was a prophet, but NO Jews believe that Jesus was the son of g-d any more than we are.

Speaking of education...take your own advice.

Btw, thanks for the laugh. I find cavemen extremely amusing. Religious bigotry, however, is sad.

[BadFaith]

117. Both "names" are essentially a variation of YHWH....

Which is the Tetragrammaton, or "the Four Letter Name" that according to the Kabbalists has somewhere around thirty distinct pronunciations, the original of which has long since been lost (perhaps deliberately, as the Hebrews had a strict policy against saying the name of God). YHWH is composed of the abbreviated forms of the imperfect, the participle, and the perfect of the Hebrew verb "to be" (yehi, howeh, and hawah). According to this explanation, the meaning of YHWH would be "he who will be, is, and has been", but such a word-formation has no analogy in the Hebrew language. YHWH, spelled in Hebrew, is a human pictogram:



Yahweh is the most popular English variant. Jehovah is essentially the same, though some recent scholars believe it is a mispronunciation of YHWH. Originally, the Hebrew alphabet contained no vowels, so writers used dots around consonants to help the reader pronounce words (these are called vowel points). Now, because YHWH was forbidden to be uttered, Biblical writers used the vowel points for the words Adonai ("Lord") or Elohim (a plural noun often used as a common name, as in "God") when they wrote the Tetragrammaton. It is believed that Jehovah is thus a mispronunciation of YHWH because it is essentially using the wrong vowel points.

[SpiralHawk]

134. Yahweh was just one of the Elohim.

He's the one who wound up getting picked for Perennial Pedastalhood. But he was only ONE -- of the group known as the Elohim.

check it out. It's right there plain as day in the early part of Genesis. He was just one of a group of "gods." So much for traditional monotheism.

[supernova]

110. Ahem,

You won't get very far here with that attitude.

As for Allah being "distant" as you say, hogwash. The entire Koran self-identifies as the spoken word of God direct to The Prophet Mohammad.

God isn't using angels, or other intermediaries in the Koran.

Jews and Christians are not infidels
We are referred to in the Koran as "People of the Book" who must be respected (I daresay a lot more respect that we are giving the Islamic world lately) as co-religionists and followers of the path of God.

Educate yourself, indeed criticalwords.

[roughsatori]

114. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing

At first I thought you were writing a parody post to illustrate that truism--then it dawned on me, you are the actual flesh incarnation of that phrase.

[Scott Lee]

116. In fact, they are the same God.

The common ancestor is Abraham. In his time, his God was only referred to as "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob". Later, that same God was identified as "YHWH" or "Yahweh" (which is a guess, because the Hebrew priests intentionally hid the vowels from the word, leaving only the consonants). There are some theories that support YHWH in fact being a Heavenly family of sorts, with Y representing "Yod" the father, Heh, the Mother, Waw, the son and Heh the daughter.

Since Judaism led to Christianity, and Jesus was a Jew, when he referred to his "Father" (God) it only stands to reason that that God was YHWH also referred to as Jehovah. Are you following me? So you can see that the Jews and Christians in fact worship the same God. The only thing they disagree on is the validity of one "messenger" or Messiah (Christ).

Fast forward to the 6th century AD, lower ARabia. An illiterate man named Muhammad has an encounter with an archangel named Gabriel, who magically blesses him with the ability to write and take down Gabriel's verbal dictation of the new Word of God - the Holy Qur'an. Gabriel, being an archangel, is the mouthpiece for "God", who is referred to as "Allah" which in the Arabic means "The Other" (other than man). Guess who created the archangels Gabriel, Ariel, Uriel and Michael? Yep you guessed it - YWHW. The God of the Jews and the Christians. Gabriel was reporting for the same boss - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (YHWH).

So before you scream off half baked, maybe you better do your research, doncha think?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

118. Well, 117 posts and only one deletion

we were doing pretty well too!

[criticalwords]

133. I won't review any rules!

Nothing I said was false and just because you disagree with it doesn't mean that I'm going to change it.

Everything that I said was true, taken from the Qur'an, and taken from the history of the military leader known as Muhammed.

His final words were drive the infidels (Jews and Christians) off of the Arabian peninsula and into the sea.

All throughout the Qur'an and the Hadith he commissions the killing of those who disagree with Islam or will not follow Allah.

MUHAMMED CREATED ISLAM AS NO MORE THAN A RALLYING CRY TO MOBILIZE DESCENDANTS OF ISHMAEL to fight Jews and Christians and destroy them.

Islam doesn't even mean peace, like the AMERICAN LIE WILL LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE. It means Peace...WITH SUBMISSION TO...allah. If you don't serve him, or submit to his people, then you don't get peace.

Muslims in Britian and the United States have sworn that Britain and the United States will one day be ruled under the iron fist of Islam, WHETHER THEIR CITIZENS LIKE IT OR NOT! Have you all who claim to be so smart, not researched this stuff? Have you not seen footage of them saying it?

To doubt what I say simply because you disagree with it is absolutely stupid! You believe everything that muslims say, and then you lash out against Christians because you try and say that they oppress you. How dumb is that? You haven't seen oppression yet. Go to Indonesia or the Philippines and look at the villages of nothing but women and children because the men have been killed by muslims, and the women and children, some as young as 10 have been raped by these muslim fundamentalists. Look at all of the children who have major burns on their bodies because muslims tortured them to get their parents to acknowledge "allah." Look at all of the scarred faces ruined because muslims have thrown acid on christians as a means of intimidation.

AND THEN YOU ALL HAVE THE AUDACITY TO LASH OUT AGAINST CHRISTIANS IN THIS COUNTRY?

Get a brain! Why don't you go live in an Islamic country dominated by a government that governs according to the teachings of Islam and let's see how free you are there.

Get a freaking clue!

No they are not the same god and have never been. How many times have Christians done you like Muslims still do to this day, and that is holding you down with a gun to your head and forcing you to praise their god or die? Christians haven't. That's why Islam spread so quickly during Muhammed's time. 1. Convert of die (conversion by the sword) and combined with #2 is why it continues to spread so fast today...2. When a baby is born, the father whispers words from the Khalima into their ears and they are a new convert.

It's not growing because it's a good religion.

Same god?

How dumb is that...

[Terwilliger]

135. so, why are there no heavenly battles?

I mean, all these universal overseers? Isn't more than one too much?

[youngred]

173. first i thought about taking you point by point for refutation

then I realized you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the ass anyway so wallow away in the ignorance if you'd like...but you certainly aren't right.

[neuvocat]

111. I'd sure love to hear what his congregation says about this.

[bmbmd]

127. Well, he's a Methodist

so I doubt if his congregation would have much trouble with that point of view.

[bluestateguy]

112. He's dumb enough to alienate his base

Sounds like Karl Rove needs to have a little chat with his student tonight.

[FDRrocks]

115. Bush supporters cannot take the truth???

(sarc) IM SHOCKED! (/sarc)

[eileen_d]

121. Nothing like religion and politics!

This was my favorite post:

How many Gods are there, anyway?

How many would you like?

[LittleApple81]

124. When I heard him saying that, I said "Foot-in-Mouth" with fundies! n/t

[itcfish]

128. For Once Bush is Correct.

It is only one God that is worshipped. The way God is worshipped is the problem. You hear those ignorant people say oh, those muslims and their Allah. Allah is the Arabic word for God, like Dios is God in Spanish. Christian Arabs call their God Allah as well. Muslims and Jews have much more in common than they would like to admit. The muslims use the old testament the same as Christians. They believe in Adam and Eve the Angel Gabriel etc. Jesus is not their God nor the son of God for muslims, he is one of their main prophets.

[supernova]

131. Arabs and Sephardic Jews

are related genetically too, aren't they? They really are siblings. That's my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong. If you believe the genesis story about Isaac and Ishmael, that's another more metaphorical way of looking at it.

It is amazing that two groups who have such much in common should be so much at each others' throats.

[itcfish]

156. Sephardic Jews?

Sephard is the word for Spain and Sephardic Jews were Jew that came from Spain or Portugal

[supernova]

157. I meant

the Jews who were of middle east origin, as opposed to the jews of Eastern European descent. If that's not the right word, what is?

[Lurking Dem]

158. It is also used to describe Jews

who (re)settled in Middle Eastern countries after being expelled from Spain so it can be confusing. A great majority of Middle Eastern/North African Jews are, in fact, Sephardim. To make it even more confusing, we are sometimes referred to as "Oriental Jews".

Yeminite Jews are sometimes called Teimanim and Jews in Bombay are Bene Israel.

Israeli born Jews are referred to as sabra.

[supernova]

159. Thanks for this history lesson

:thumbsup: I enjoy learning something new every day.

who (re)settled in Middle Eastern countries after being expelled from Spain so it can be confusing

This is where I got my original sense of the term, I think.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Terwilliger]

136. educate yourself

you can't prove two separate gods without being able to prove any gods

[criticalwords]

140. Well...

...disprove a god?

Can you?

Of course not! The only thing you can do is go by...WHAT YOU SEE...as if what you see is always true.

Get a clue...

...disprove him.

[supernova]

141. Get a clue

"Get a clue"

You use that phrase a lot. Do you even know what it means? I don't think you do.

[Terwilliger]

146. I'll disprove you

you were the one claiming that Muslims and Christians and Jews worshipped DIFFERENT gods. The burden of proof is on you.

By the way...does the fact that the Christian "god" is separate from the others make all Christians better than other people? They're all certainly better than Muslims by your definition. Is that true? George W. Bush is a holy man of peace, love, and brotherhood?

[youngred]

174. insluting the mods, how clever

when you can write a post that stays within the rules then i'm sure they'll leave it

[onebigbadwulf]

137. Fundies freak out when they lose their elitism.

They think they are the only ones who are right and absolutely right. Their god is the only god and that god is the god literally interpretted from the bible.

Bush made a no no and alienated his main voter base.

Took long enough.

[onebigbadwulf]

139. HYPOCRISY

Wasnt it shortly after 9-11 that GW said "We must hunt down the people who declare war in the name of false religions"???

[criticalwords]

142. I'm tired of people acting like Bush is such a good Christian!

Let me tell you about Bush and his "Christianity."

Why doesn't Bush ever mention his ties to Reverend Sun Myung Moon, a guy who claims that he is the..."REINCARNATION OF JESUS CHRIST!"

Bush is the most corrupt President we have ever had! Conspiracy? Please. Why don't you do some research and stop doubting everything that sounds off the wall, simply because you are not used to hearing it. It doesn't match your perception of reality, so, it must be "craaaaazy."

Whatever!

Moon has funneled millions and millions of money into both Bush Senior and Junior's elections campaigns and so when Bush says that..."GOD PUT ME IN OFFICE"...how do you know he isn't talking about this guy who claims to be the REINCARNATION OF JESUS CHRIST? But, nah, people aren't used to hearing that, so they assume that he is talking about Jehovah, the Christian and Jewish God. But God is just a generic term without a name attached to it. I can't assume he means one thing when I know that he is tied to another. http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0310-03.htm

Like I said, why don't you do some research on the guy. But don't do your research at the right-wing Washington Times, they are one of Moon's thousands and thousands of front groups that funnel money into his empire: "Hannity and the rest of the Fox crew were at it all week, and still are. And the rest of the Republican Attack Machine quickly geared up. The Wall Street Journal's right-wing editorial page denounced the memo as 'a hit job, spelling out how to create the maximum embarrassment to President Bush during his re-election campaign.' A bottom-fishing columnist for the Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times, Frank Gaffney, actually compared Democratic senator Jay Rockefeller, the vice-chair of the intelligence panel, to Saddam Hussein, writing, 'They both seem to have been so keen to defeat George W. Bush that their subordinates resorted to laying traps for the president and his administration.' See how this works?" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40114-2003Nov14.html

Ever heard of this guy? http://www.thomhartmann.com/ Thom Hartman? This guy is a genius, and he backs up everything that he says with facts. I first heard about the Moon, Bush, Santorum, Lieberman, etc connection on his show last week.

This guy knows his stuff. You should have heard the show today when he was breaking down the 4 types of power that the Framers wanted to keep separate: Political power, Military Power, Economic Power, and Religious power.

This Thom Hartman guy is a genius and humanitarian.

Now as for Bush being a good "Christian." I see it as a conspiracy! Even prominent members of the...SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN RIGHT...are in league with Reverend Moon, that guy who claims that he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. Falwell is cozy with Moon (I found a picture of the two of them hugged all up the other night, but I didn't save it and can't find it now).

If you haven't caught hold of what I'm saying yet, then RED FLAG, RED FLAG, RED FLAG!

Bush's Christianity ploy is a farce...

[creativelcro]

147. look, it is pretty obvious

that wealth and power are incompatible with what Jesus taught... When you have wealth and power, your loyalty is to them and maintaning them... -CV

[supernova]

152. Thanks for the non-neocon post

at last! :D

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bush's moonie connection has been discussed here at DU many times. It's not LBN news around here. Always good to have another reminder though.

[youngred]

175. now those are some facts

and yes Bush is a false christian and moon is a very scary mofo

[Some Moran]

144. Here's the irony...

Politically this was suicide, and yet it was the first and only time that Bush has told the truth.

[onebigbadwulf]

149. Brilliant observation

True irony.

[htuttle]

160. Do Sikh's worship the 'same God'? How about Mormons?

Both are based on the Old and New Testament, and both add additional books to those accepted by most Christians as 'The Bible'.

And what about the Mandeans? This, somewhat smallish, sect in Iraq would be considered 'Christian', except for the fact that they think Christ was sent by the devil to trick us, and that John the Baptist was far more important (and to whose teachings they ascribe).

Or the Yazidis of Iraq? They have an interesting melange of traditions, drawing from many other religions in the region, however, they believe that the Devil is still in charge on Earth (Hmm...there are times I would have to agree with that assessment...if I believed in 'the devil'). Is their 'devil' the same as the Christian 'Satan'?

I guess my point is that there are many, many 'Abraham-derived' religions and sects out there. Some of them are actually more different from Christianity than Islam (I'd count Mormanism as one of these), yet they are considered Christian. I'd like to think it's not due to racism, but if Mormanism were invented in Asia, I bet most Christians wouldn't consider it part of Christianity.

Just a diversion...carry on...

[Scott Lee]

178. It depends on the roots of their religion(s)

Since Abraham is a common ancestor to all three major "western" religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) it is logical and dogmatically correct to assume that those three worship the same God Abraham did, regardless of variations in name. Remember that even "Yahweh" has different monikers - Adonai, Sha'donai, Elohim, "I Am", etc. It should come as no surprise that the Arabs would name him yet again.

Look, it isn't that President Dunce is a religious scholar (what a laugh). It just so happens that he fell into an accurate statement here as to a common Deity. Dividing deity is a step in dividing people, and that's a step to hate and war. Let's just acknowledge the fact and use it as a blunt instrument with which to educate the wingnuts...if they can be educated on this at all.

[youngred]

161. Actually He's correct, and its something that Christians hate to admit

All three of the major monotheistic religions worship the same god. All are descendents of Abraham (the Jewish/Arab divide coming over which son was almost sacrificed for god Issac first born of Abraham's wife, or Ishmael, First born to the slave woman Hagar).

Islam recognizes Jesus as one of the major prophets, though not the messiah (obviously).

[supernova]

170. I don't have a problem with the concept

Quite the opposite in fact. It's one of the basic tenets that keeps me a spiritual person. Much like Ba'Hai's (sp?) I believe all religions are related anyway.

[0rganism]

177. Well, bush just lost the Jack Chick vote...

(from http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp)