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[ButterflyBlood]

1. yeah but we'd need more than one

due to not be able to have them together. i'd say 4. The west coast and upper midwest with the northeast can be the liberal countries, while the south and rocky mountain regions can be the conservative countries.

[LynneSin]

3. So you'd give NYC to the conservatives?

You'd almost have to do 3 seperate regions since the coasts of the US:

The West Coast (Including the bulk of California, Washington & Oregon)
The Northeast (down to around PA, but splitting that state in half giving Philly to the NE and the rest of the region to the conservatives. BTW - Northern DE goes liberal)
Rest of the country.

But the problem with dividing off the country would be the fact that there are liberals in conservative areas and vice versa and that would create an internal warfare in each of these nations. Imagine a liberal, with a decent paying job in Texas or some other conservative region suddenly have to play by the rules of their conservative led nation or going to jail for it.

On paper this is a great idea, but it could never happen.

[ButterflyBlood]

4. oh wait i was totally lost my train of though

the northeast would go with the upper midwest as a liberal country, and the south and rocky mountain region would be conservative.

going to fix it now.

[LynneSin]

13. Ok, I'll let you slide this time

I just saw Northeast going to the conservatives and we would see WWIII breaking out with the liberal stronghold in that particular part of the country.

Now the southeast.......another story!

[bryant69]

2. This was a subject of debate

on Ann Coulter's discussion forum a couple of months ago.

My personal take is that as an intellectual excersize it's ok--but it's kind of wrong headed to assume that we can just go our seperate ways. We can't. America has a conservative tradition and a liberal tradition, and both have high points and low points. We need to continue working out our differences.

I think it would help if we stoped pretending that the Republicans and Democrats have diametrically opposed visions. But that's just me.

Bryant
http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[RichM]

5. America L would be much too far-sighted to adopt a 2-party system.

With the benefit of hindsight, they'd surely not want to restrict political expression to just two slightly-different flavors of the Oligarchs/CorporateDonors' Party.

Vive America L!!

Ooops - News Bulletin: America L has just been invaded and crushed by America R. Oh well. It was beautiful while it lasted. :-(

[Name removed]

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[trof]

6. Ok, I've got it.

All the liberals can come to my house.
All the right-wingers can go to *'s house.
How many hot dogs should I buy?
BYOB
;-)

[DrGonzoLives]

7. Why?

So we can have two totalitarian governments? Where is the dividing line between left and right? I'm against gun control, does that make me right-wing?

You see the problem here. The dividing line is, in most cases arbitrary. Is there a single issues? Do we answer a questionaire? How do you decide who gets to live where?

Sorry, but political repression runs counter to every concept of democracy I can think of, and that would happen in both of the split Americas. Besides, who gets which states? There are plenty of liberals down South, for instance, that, despite it all, love where they live. Do you force them to move or be lost? What about the right-wingers in your half of the country? A nice trail of tears to their new homes, or what?

I realize this is meant as tongue-in-cheek, but it's defeatist. What you are saying with this argument is that we should just pick up our toys and go.

[Loonman]

8. That's absurd

Totally.

[JanMichael]

9. Well my "tongue in cheek" answer is YES.

What do I want for our reality?

Something almost along the same lines. So YES again.

Maybe not just 2.

[HereSince1628]

11. Should US go to condition green?

If this hypothetical is any indication, things have returned to OK in the USofA :)

[porphyrian]

12. Yeah, that's worked so well for other countries...

...with differing ideologies, like in the former Soviet Union. Nah, AmRight would just declare war and take us during our Independence from Assholes celebration when we were too wasted to stop them.

[LondonReign2]

14. America L should be safe

so long as we don't have any oil reserves.

On a slightly more serious note, America R would invade America L anyway, to stamp out "the ungodly". They have an incredible need to control all thoughts and actions.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. To borrow a phrase, "Bring it on!"

But, instead of figuring out all the "middle" states, how about if we tell the old Confederate States that we changed our minds and they can go and sip mint-julips, wave the stars and bars at each other, watch endless wrestling and NASCAR on TV, praise Jesus while their screwing each other, have all the guns they can stuff into their pickups, and get all teary eyed when they hear Dixie and watch reruns of Gone with the Wind?

We could give them the option of returning to the union once they can prove that they've become civilized.

[DrGonzoLives]

16. Gotta love that South-bashing

Because, God knows, all Southerners are like that. Even the liberal ones. And especially all those blacks down there. And all Northerners hate NASCAR and wrestling. Yeah, every from up north is perfect in every way. Yep. :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Yes, the south has a rich history of liberalism..

doesn't it? Remind me how many of those southern states, jampacked with progressives, voted for homeboy Al Gore in 2000? Can we safely assume that such bastions of liberalism will be voting for leftists in 2004?

Yep, sure we can.

[trof]

17. I'm Ok with everything

but the wrestling, NASCAR, and Jesus part.
Pass the grits, please.
;-)
On edit-you can still come to my house anyway.
We'll talk.

[carolinayellowdog]

20. That post dishonors your avatar n/t

[]

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Gandhi had a sense of humor.

Try it some time.

[Ripley]

21. I'm eating jalapeno Hushpuppies Right Now!!!

And damn I wish I had me some East Carolina pulled pork barbeque and some Brunswick stew too!

I think me and my family are civilized. In fact, I want you to prove to me that everyone NORTH of the Mason-Dixon line IS civilized....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Don't get your cornpone in a tangle

You could always secede. Be sure to take Texas with you.

[Ripley]

36. I happen to have a mixed heritage

Upbringing...North and South. Gee should I choose the Northerners over the Southerners?

Great logic Baby!

BTW, you didn't provide proof of "Northern Civility." Like the kind that ran railroad and oil monopolies for their own financial gain, not the good of the country.

Oops.

[Name removed]

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[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Tennessee has a lot to say about tolerance

Let's see:

Joined the Confederate States of Amerca to preserve slavery.

Home of Nathan Bedford Forrest founder of that dedicated bunch of civil rights workers known as the Ku Klux Klan.

Added to their rich history of progressive thought by convicting Mr. Scopes of teaching evolution.

Voted for the boy-emperor in 2000.

So sue me.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

18. Wouldn't AmLeft be repeatedly invaded?

I do hope we get half the military in this divorce. Isn't it better to infiltrate the right in this country than to separate? Really, it may be more frustrating, but isn't the world a lot safer having the left put up resistance every now and then? Wouldn't AmRight's goal be to convert us to their ways? What happens when we allow their citizens abortions, drugs, and dancing? If we allow universities to pursue academic freedom, isn't that inherently an act of "terra"? We wouuld literally be their greatest enemy, no longer simple political enemies, but "real" geo-political bogeymen and bogeywomen. How long until AMleft becomes an axis of evil? No, I think I like to keep my "adversaries" close by, be a constant fly in the ointment.

One final note: the right, I'm sure, would LOVE this proposal. It just frightens me as to why.

Now for a bit of hyperbole: In a discussion about non-violence, Martin Buber (famed Jewish thinker, biblical scholar) remarked to Ghandi (not a direct quote, but you get the idea): non-violence works well with the British. You march out there, they beat you with billyclubs, but your point is made, and it is inspiring. Jews walk out to the Nazis, and we make their jobs easier; they simply shoot us.

[genius]

19. Good idea

We can trace our roots through the greatest leaders in our country. The Rethugs can trace their roots through Hoover, Nixon, Reagan and the Bushies. The rest of the world will breath easier too.

[morningglory]

22. I would love to live in Barney Frank's district

He makes me so proud, but who is going to do all the "work" in AmericaR? To many bosses not enough drudges (not him).

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

23. Let the repugs have Florida and Texas

they're both so screwed up anyway they'll never be fixed! Since they like dysfunction so much, they should be pleased at the idea.

Beside, I don't especially like Dallas, and could be talked into emigrating to the New America once it's established....

[recidivist]

24. Federalism, anyone?

What you propose is actually close to the original Founders' notion of how America would work. The central government would be very limited. The various states could march to their own drummers. People could vote with their feet.

Not a bad idea, actually. Many of our problems are the result of overcentralization, plus the impulse to stuff everyone into a one-size-fits-all mold. One-size-fits-all is guaranteed to irritate a lot of people. We don't HAVE to do it that way.

A great deal of Constitutional reconstruction would be needed to move back to a decentralized vision, but at the margins, there is no reason we couldn't do it. This would, however, require that judges stop reading their personal policy preferences into the Constitution.

[Trek234]

34. Are you for real???

You're a liberal advocating state rule?

My god... Do you realize states like Alabama would probably legalize lynching (of non whites only of course)? Both Alabama and Texas would set up death camps for gays... well maybe not that far, but find some way to kill them. Abortion would be illegal in tons of places. Religion in schools would be in tons of places. Teachers would probably be jailed in those places for teaching anything that conflicts with christianity. Segregation in schools of course.

The ONLY way the liberals in this country have advanced is through FEDERAL law. How did we end slavery? Federal law. Would it have happened at the state level? Hell no! How did we end segregation? Federal law. How did we make progress getting rid of anti-gay laws? Federal law. How did we fight corporations? Federal law. How did we get justice for the poor? Federal law. How did the conservatives make all those things come about? State law. Have we EVER made progress using state law?

What you suggest is total suicide for the left.

[ComerPerro]

29. One huge problem with that

Oh, yeah, it sounds great.

Until America (R) nukes the shit out of us, or invades just for the hell of it.
Right wingers love three things: country music, incest, and war.

[jiacinto]

31. Where would you draw the lines?

What states would be in one country or the other?

[Name removed]

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[Trek234]

33. Wouldn't work

Would take a few days before the conservatives declared war on the liberal america and went in for the slaughter.

[Name removed]

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[CWebster]

38. America R (capital in Texas) would be forever waging war on AmericaL

.

[2tb]

39. an alternative scenario

Rather than try to split into 2, 4 or 20 different "homogonized" countries we could recognize that every area with more than 1000 people in it contains a mix of people with diverging opinions and philosophies of how best to run things.

Once one is willing to accept that the next question is how to ensure that everyone can get along. One method that works is to adopt a "live and let live" attitude, i.e. I'll leave you alone and you will do the same to me. So long as you don't harm me what you do is your own business. This has worked fine in many places. It falls apart when busybodies, well-meaning or not, start trying to use the power of government to enforce their idea of proper behavior. Frankly, to a student of history, the right and left appear to be equally guilty. They have different interpretations of what constituted proper behavior but agree that it is the business of government to enforce their vision whenever they hold the reins of power. Personally, I don't trust anyone who wants to use the power of government to do "good" because I'm not sure I will agree with that person's definition of what "good" is.

Wait a minute!!! I'm starting to sound like a libertarian! Gosh, maybe I am one!