Eartha Kitt and Lauryn Hill....

[Dookus]

In 1968, Eartha Kitt was invited to attend a White House conference on juvenile delinquency hosted by Lady Bird Johnson. At the conference, Eartha spoke out harshly against the Viet Nam war. Her career was nearly ruined - most of her contracts were canceled, she could only find work in Europe for years, and President Johnson ordered the CIA to investigate her.

Today most of us here believe that her speaking out was a heroic act.

But yet a lot of people here seem deeply offended that Lauryn Hill spoke out at the Vatican against very real abuses.

I think speaking truth to power is NEVER wrong. Some people say it was "rude" of Hill to speak out at an event to which she was invited. Well, it was "rude" of Kitt to do the same thing, but it was the RIGHT thing to do.

If Lauryn Hill had spoken out at the White House against the Bush administration, we'd all hail her as a hero. Why should the RCC be immune to valid criticism? Hill didn't say the church was all bad - just as Kitt didn't say the Johnson White House was all bad. They both spoke out on very specific issues, and their criticism was entirely valid.

Eartha Kitt and Lauryn Hill - two very brave women who spoke truth to power, regardless of the consequences.

[stinkeefresh]

1. thanks dookus

Lauryn Hill is brave. Rare trait in a celeb. (plus I love her latest album...)

[Jax]

2. I just heard this

exact same story just now on the Seattle radio station I am listening to! Agree they are indeed very brave women who took a stand to speak truth to power.

Always loved Eartha Kitt's voice. She was the best Catwoman (well except for DU's Catwoman that is!)

Thanks for posting this. Important.

Jax

On edit: the 'exact same story' I heard on the radio what you posted about Eartha Kitt. Went and searched DU to read about Lauryn Hill after I read your post.

Thanks again for posting this Dookus.

[Nlighten1]

3. Lauryn Hill is...

even more beautiful to me now.


swoon

[letthewindblow]

4. Lauryn Hill = Hero

[Dookus]

5. I agree, of course...

but I'm really interested in hearing from the people who thought Hill's actions were "despicable". How do they square that view with what Eartha Kitt did? Or do they think Kitt was despicable, too?

[nini]

6. It wasn't her child abuse comment that bothered me as much as...

... her bash on organized religion. Which I don't expect any of the usual anti-religious people here to agree with.

I've read enough about her to know of her 'religious advisor' that changed her life to the point she was practically brainwashed. When I saw her comment in her statement --> "I don't believe in any representative of God on Earth" and this from an article on here at BET.COM --- "I started to see that my concept of spirituality was totally wrong," Hill said to MTV. "Real religion is no religion at all."

http://www.bet.com/articles/1,,c2gb3075-3739,00.html

I took it as an opportunity to get a dig in on organized religion using the Child abuse mess as the launching board. That is what bugged me. She is right about the abuse issues - no disagreement there from me. It's the organized religion aspect that didnt' sit well being she was at an organized religious event.


If she doesn't like ornganized religion - fine - just don't go to the vatican at their invite and make 'that' an issue.

Flame away...

[Dookus]

9. No flame....

but again, I ask, how does it differ substantially from what Eartha Kitt did? One could easily say "if you don't like the government, don't go to the White House".

When there are real abuses to be condemned, is it wrong to do so in the "home" of the abusers?

[nini]

18. To me it's different in some respects..

Ms. Hill has issues in general with religion and how she perceives it and anyone else who doesn't see her way is wrong, needs to repent - yada yada. Kind of like the fundies. IF she went there attacking the Church strictly on the child abuse issue (which actually should be addressed to American cardinals and bishops mostly), then I would give her more slack. I do not honestly believe it was not an opportunity on her part to attack on the religion itself.

Ms. Kitt protested a policy of the govt. My understanding is she did not blast the whole govt and all its followers in protesting the war.

I was out protesting the war at about 10 years old.. I didn't then and I don't now lump the entire govt and all it's people to the corrupt SOBs that are ruining us now.


thanks for not flaming ;-)

[KFC]

7. Hardly brave, just a programmed cultie

"Brother Anthony" has told her what to think. Now, it does take some strength to break out of a cult, so mabye she can save herself.

Now, she's just an extreme fundie. They pretty much all hate the Catholic church.

http://www.bet.com/articles/0,,c3gb3075-3739,00.html

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

13. Yep. This cult=extreme fundie=no rational thought.

When you are not thinking for yourself, your rant can hardly be considered brave. Cultspeak. She merits no respect whatsoever.

A lot of Baptists are anti-Catholic. She sounds worse than any Baptist.

[Dookus]

14. So you have to be in a cult...

to speak out against child sexual abuse?

Let's discuss what she SAID, instead of her personal beliefs. Dismissing her statements on those grounds is silly. I don't care if she's Catholic, Baptist, Scientologist or Bahai.... it has no bearing on the argument she made.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

17. It means she isn't brave

You were praising her for her "personal beliefs". But she was just repeating what had been drilled into her head. No risk, no thought, just rote. She is the worst kind of fundie. No credit to her.

And don't start with $cientology.

[Dookus]

19. I was praising her....

for speaking truth to power. Again, her personal beliefs have NO bearing whatsoever on what she said.

I understand you don't like her beliefs. I'm an atheist, and I'm sure I wouldn't like them either. But it has nothing to do with the validity of her statements.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

22. No problem

In public, $cientologists always say the right thing. She may be in the same boat.

Hell, this is not a really big deal anyway. I'm sure a lot of people support what she said. And, you are correct. Her criticisms were valid.

I guess I just reacted to the "speaking truth to power" cliche. Kind of like "thinking out of the box" and other lame cliches.

[supernova]

27. Except that those aren't cliches

those figures of speech are around for a reason.

So what exactly would you call what she did?

[1songbird]

23. Excuse the freaking hell out of me! You are about to get

cursed out by a Baptist! Where the hell do you get off saying that! She spoke out against child molestation in the Catholic Church. The last time I checked this was not something only Baptist are offended by. What kind of jacked in the head statement was that!

[1songbird]

21. Faux News. hmmmm. n/t

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[KFC]

26. Thank you

Mr. Baptist

You can sit at my poker table any time, genius.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[KFC]

30. I will be in Vegas in February

Actually, it is a small game. Mostly Baptists. Low money. I would like to invite you and all of your friends to a friendly game. Reservation details will follow.

[1songbird]

31. Let me tell you something dude.

I have been thoroughly enjoying myself here at DU and I've never had to use such language. I have never been cursed at here and you are the first. I didn't even curse at the guy defaming my religion. You are free to play whatever games you want to, but not on my time. See ya.

[DrWeird]

8. Mmmmm Earth Kitt and Lauryn Hill in the same sentence...

auughhaughaghhh!

[Dookus]

10. What's wrong with that?

Two women of color, entertainers and artists, who spoke up for their beliefs. What's wrong with comparing them? I love both of them.

[DrFunkenstein]

11. Lauryn Hill's Sistah Souljah Moment?

Clinton did something very similar when he was invited by Jesse Jackson to speak at The Rainbow Coalition conference.

[Dookus]

12. Hrmm...

not sure they're comparable. Clinton was trying to appeal to centrists by showing he could stand up to a core constituency. It was pure political triangulation.

I don't think Hill was trying to do anything other than speak her beliefs.

[Terwilliger]

15. While I don't disagree with her criticism of the church...

I heard second-hand (but people I knmow pretty well) that at the end of a concert one night she said something to the effect of "Why are all these white people here...my music is for black people" or words to that effect.

Until I know she doesn't feel that way, I don't think much of her.

[pfitz59]

16. "Santa Baby"..........

All time best Christmas song!

[supernova]

20. HATE THAT SONG!

It fucking annoys me. /scrooge moment


Having said that. Lauryn Hill did the right thing. It's never easy; it's never the "right" time; it's never appropriate. The pure, unvarnished truth is sometimes rude, ugly, and downright nasty.

That she spoke out at all is quite frankly nothing short of amazing. And she is to be respected for it.

And Eartha Kitt totally ROCKS! :D

[Isome]

32. Awww poppycock!!

According to the article, some people think she's unduly influenced by a guy who could very well be a kook, yet others think she's simply going through some "changes" in her life that aren't uncommon, it's newsworthy only because she is who she is. No one here can make the determination that she's been brainwashed based on news articles that merely repeat what another news story has already published.

I find this no different than when the Beatles were under the tutelage of the Maharishi, or when Santana (damn I love him) went through his period of wearing all white after studying with some religious guru. In 2000, when asked if he considered himself religious, Santana said this:

No, religion is a corrupt business. Spirituality is something else. Religion is like Coca-Cola, Pepsi cola, wine. That's not going to help in the desert. Religion is a corrupt institution and we don't trust those. Spirituality is you bringing one to one with la virgin and God. It's all one. No, I don't want to be religious because a lot of people have been killed in the name of religion because they get a superiority complex. Spirituality is all like water.… All the colors are there, but it's still water. I know the difference between spirituality and religious and I don't want to be religious.

Though he didn't denigrate any specific one, he was no less condemning of organized religion than Lauryn. People need to dig a little deeper.