Are we in America facing the new "Judgement at Nuremburg? You Decide

[KoKo]

Check out this website. Just read the Highlights even....and if you want to go deeper..read the links here. What do you think? :shrug:
(Mods, didn't see copyright stuff..but if you want will "cut down.")

(Note: This site is not for those without a "strong stomach. Surfing it will give you a real "wake up" call... Really).

http://www.hermes-press.com/etch1.htm

You are not so much struggling against the Bush administration or any other form of tyranny as you are fighting for the inalienable democratic principles which make this nation free:

* The individual does not receive government and authority from a deity who gives his secular sword to princes and magistrates to rule by his divine right.

* The individual does not have a subordinate place in a divinely inspired hierarchy, in which kings, nobelmen, political leaders, and corporate executives are placed above him as 'your highness.'

* Government is voluntarily established by free individuals through a willful act of contract, individuals rationally consenting to limit their own freedom and to obey civil authority in order to have public protection of their natural rights.

* Government's purpose is to serve the interests of the people, to enable individuals to enjoy peacefully their rights to life, liberty, and property.


We're facing a life-or-death crisis with the Bush administration's attack on our constitutional rights. On May 30, 2002, using their own incompetence as an excuse, they gave the F.B.I. totalitarian state powers to spy on Americans.

We Americans must immediately wake up to the dangers facing us and begin taking back our country from the leaders who are misusing their power.
http://www.hermes-press.com/etch1.htm

[jbm]

1. I really liked..

the idea of forming a united task force.

<snip>
So if we cannot--and should not--use violence to recreate America, what viable means do we have at our disposal in our struggle toward equality of opportunity and justice? We must work to develop a united taskforce composed of American activists who understand the general principles and particulars of the operations of the power elite.
<snip>

A grassroots citizens group that is large enough to wield some real influence could have an amazing impact. We gotta think about doing something like that!

[Cleita]

2. Thanks for passing on the website.

I voice this a lot about Germany under the Nazis and of course many of my liberal friends think I am a little bit off. There are no ovens or gestapo pounding down doors they say. The mainstream German population never saw those things either. We do have to keep this in the forefront for people to see what is happening right here in our own backyard.

Incidentally, when I lived in South America, the majority of the population thought Germany before the war was a successful example of German efficiency in governance. Even after the war they couldn't quite accept how corrupt and evil the Nazi regime was.

[RBHam]

3. The sad thing is...

Many citizens will willingly give up their liberty for a valium.

[KoKo]

4. Just got back. To those who read it. I think to be "aware" that we might

be headed down the road of silent complicity, is the thing that struck me from the article. When I say "We" I mean the average American who isn't here on DU or reading the other "Progressive" Web Site.

We here understand some of what's going on, but we still think we have an "impact on it." What if we don't? And, yet, if we do, what can we do more to stop this, than we have been doing by being active and alert as we here have been since the "Selection of 2000."

Maybe being aware and active as we can be, will be an "alert" that the Germans didn't have when they were going along, wondering but not acting.

Maybe the internet has pulled us together who saw the "alarm signals" faster than the Germans did before the "build up" by Hitler.

Or, we are deceiving ourselves. Thinking we are more important than we are and we should be "packing our bags" and ready to "get out" before history repeats itself and the sleeping masses of Americans really understand that we've been "taken over."

I don't know. This article gives me alot to think about. Could we be suckered into what the Germans were, not knowing. And did those who knew do better by getting out in time.

Should we stay and fight or get the hell out before it's too late?

Questions. But, the article is something to think about in the next months as we watch how things unfold with our candidates. I don't know, what to do.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. Nazi Germany may be an exaggeration, but

1970-80s Argentina is a definite parallel. That is a country that gave up freedom for safety from a small number of domestic terrorist attacks. 30,000 people, most of them innocent, died in this "war on terror."

I've heard that on the surface, everything looked perfectly normal.

[KoKo]

7. When I read the article that I linked it really got to me. I kind of

"backed off" thinking....no, that couldn't happen here. This is something we can deal with: PNAC/BFEE since Nixon, Wars for Profit, Corporate/Media Control. I said no! We can fix this with a new President.

I don't know. There's much in that article which gives warning. Granted it's maybe written to be alarming, but what's that old poem about "the night slips in on quiet cat paws, silently stealing...." (I don't know if I got the quote correctly and can't remember (maybe TS Eliot?) but, that poem came into my mind.

We won't know it until it's fully here. Is it? And if it IS here, how the hell didn't we see it coming? It's not like America is lacking for Holocaust Survivors or those who are children or grandchildren of! What happened here? Or, maybe this is just not as bad as some of us think.

[tlcandie]

6. Thank you for posting this... bookmarked to reread and refer to..

My question is psychologically what has to happen for people to gradually allow this change?

Is it what we are experiencing daily with a target thrown out of disinformation from this regime followed soon after by about ten other bomblets to distract from the real thing that will follow later in a stealth move?

I guess what I'm asking, I think, is it the daily insaness that leaves you dizzy and ungrounded so you can't see what is up or down that allows your center/equilibrium/balance/right-mindedness to be so totally thrown out of whack that you then fall suspect to ill-fated ideologies, etc. or just throw your head down and acquire tunnel vision to in order to just get through the daily grind and leave all the extraneous matters outside the front door?

Is this how the door is opened in order for people to drop all common sense. I'm trying to find the catalyst...the thing that allows us to become something we aren't with open arms not understanding that it is say a porcupine instead of a sheep for lack of a better analogy.

The psyops involved. The manipulation. I am wondering if we can find the KEY or KEYS that we can suggest people do to test the theory of what we are saying as truth.

GAWD can anyone save my here and make heads or tales of these ramblings.. PLEASE?!?! :crazy:

[KoKo]

8. I just posted above about what you said, but you said it much better

I did. How do we know? What can we do, if this is really where we are?

It's a "wake up call" for sure. Something to think about. There are so many signs since Shrub was installed. And what about the "Branch Davidians" and that whole mess when Clinton came into office with Reno?

It was started by Poppy, but that was a really bad thing. And I had forgotten about it, like most Americans, although the RW was all over Reno for it?

How much have we forgotten in "moving along" because our Dems don't agressively pursue like the Repugs did? And why are the Repugs so silent now, when they never missed a trick when our Dems were in office, going back to Carter.

I don't know.....I'm turning in. I'll have nightmares if I think more....but there's something important in this article I hope we can all work on and sort out.....

[Indiana_Dem]

9. I know what you are trying to say

I don't know where I've read it but I remember reading something or hearing something someone said maybe from some conspiracy theorist or in a sociology or ethics class in college. It was said that the elite philanthropists' goal was to create the lower masses into a state of having to deal with work and taking care of life matters so much that they wouldn't have time to be actively involved in any revolutionary/reactionary-type activities. In other words, they wouldn't have time or energy to think politically, etc.

The elite have had the time and energy to think all these things through and have studied history and political theory and economics and all things like this over many years. I believe their is a goal somewhere along the road here that is being played out and attempted.

Alot of it has already been accomplished. So I don't know what we as a people can do now. Many people are just too busy or uninterested to do anything about it just like the link above describes.

[tlcandie]

12. So maybe what we need to do is start asking people when is enough?

Think about it... when is enough for you that you will pay attention and want to do something about it?

Will you be interested and work for change/protest/become involved WHEN?

What are those factors. I think the key is to get them to think about what would be the one or several factors that would cause them serious alarm about what?

We should be able to state this easily enough to ask to every day folk we meet or keep on a piece of paper to pass out or lay around that causes awareness.

Simple and to the point that will not leave but sticks in your head till you answer it.

Maybe just answering it would help awareness. I'm thinking of something like the emergency/fire preparedness..

Do you have a plan? What would you do if you woke up one day and the USA was in total lockdown?

What would you do if a loved one was arrested w/o reason and allowed no trial, visits, or calls and you could not find out where they went?

What would you do if a loved one was killed in a peaceful protest?

Then maybe after each one site websites or examples of bills, etc that are enabling those same things to happen.

:shrug: Thoughts?

[G_j]

10. how many here even at DU were paying attention

to the "Miami Model"??

:think: :think: :think:

eom

[tlcandie]

11. Me and I get blasted a lot here in DU because of even thinking

that this is an issue... Miami is a blow across the bow folks and we better be getting our feet planted for which way to turn SOON!

I'm not dramatic and I'm not fearful. In fact, I'm peaceful which is odd in the knowing that I feel about this.

[G_j]

13. "shot across the bow"

is a good way to put it, and from what I've seen here at one the most progressive forums on the internet, we missed it.
================*==================
Personal Voices: Hope and Fear in Miami
David Solnit, AlterNet

A veteran activist finds much to fear, but also bits of hope, after being jailed in Miami.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17342
------------------
St. Petersburg Times: Miami Crowd Control Would Do Tyrant Proud
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1130-07.htm

Miami police Chief John Timoney must be mighty proud of the social order he maintained during the Free Trade Area of the Americas summit a couple of weeks ago in Miami - sort of the way Saddam Hussein was proud of quieting dissension in his country.
--------------------
Arresting The Future
Tom Hayden, AlterNet

Even as FTAA protestors and trade ministers poured out of town in droves, the city's Robo-Cops continued to demonstrate the 'Miami model' of suppression -- with pepper spray, rubber bullets and drawn weapons.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17246
--------------------
Information Control:

The 'Miami Model' used during the anti-FTAA protests represents a new police strategy whose aim is to control not just the streets, but also the story told by the media.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17293
------------------
Starhawk's Miami Journals,
www.starhawk.org/activism/activism-writings/miami_journals.html
------------------
This is a link to all of the Miami Herald coverage..
 http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/special_packages/ftaa/
-----------------
pics of 'projectiles'
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/projectiles
===================*=====================

[tlcandie]

18. Thanks for these.. unfortunately, several here in DU will not

read or believe these due to their sources. But I will bookmark or read them depending on lenghth.. Thanks for taking the time to post them!



EDIT: Many are planning on attending the GOP convention next year in NY.. here is what you can expect... taken from the poster's links above..second link down I believe.


<snip>
Anyone who cares about civil liberties might remember Timoney as the police commissioner of Philadelphia during the 2000 Republican convention - an event marked by police making pre-emptive arrests on baseless charges and smashing heads. This led to lucrative private consulting offers for Timoney and then, this year, to the top-cop spot in Miami.
<snip>

[G_j]

20. strangely enough

Timoney will be 'consulting' on security at the Democratic convention in Boston.
:shrug:

anyone remeber the LAPD firing rubber bullets into the crowd at a permitted Rage Against The Machine concert outside the last Dem convention in LA?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

17. imperial japan is a better analogy, imho

when they were bringing peace, prosperity and LIBERTY to their region in the 30s

The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere

Japanese leaders used the Co-Prosperity Sphere in its propaganda for the people both in Japan and in other Asian countries. The leaders spoke of "Asia for Asians," the need to liberate Asian countries from Western imperialist powers, and economic co-prosperity for member nations of the autarkic bloc. As Japan occupied various Asian countries, they set up governments with local leaders who proclaimed independence from the Western powers.

more...
http://wgordon.web.wesleyan.edu/papers/coprospr.htm

peace

[G_j]

15. The Nuremburg line has clearly been crossed

but most Americans haven't a clue.

Statement by Justice Jackson on War Trials Agreement; August 12, 1945

There are some things I would like to say, particularly to the American people, about the agreement we have just signed.
For the first time, four of the most powerful nations have agreed not only upon the principles of liability for war crimes of persecution, but also upon the principle of individual responsibility for the crime of attacking the international peace.

Repeatedly, nations have united in abstract declarations that the launching of aggressive war is illegal. They have condemned it by treaty. But now we have the concrete application of these abstractions in a way which ought to make clear to the world that those who lead their nations into aggressive war face individual accountability for such acts.

<snip>
"We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which
their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the
war, but that they started it. And we must not allow
ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war,
for our position is that no grievances or policies will
justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced
and condemned as an instrument of policy."
<snip>

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert L. Jackson
Chief U.S. Prosecutor
at the Nuremberg Tribunals
August 12, 1945
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/jack02.htm

[Emillereid]

16. I've often wondered why more people didn't see what was

happening in Germany; why more people didn't get out. I agree with the website's theme that the full horror of nazism came on gradually and that the vast majority of folks just went about their busy daily lives and as long as the Nazi's didn't do anything directly to them, they went along. In fact, the Nazis like the Bushits provided lots of diversionary 'crises' which made the strong Fuhrer and oppressive responses necessary. And like the Bushits, their fear and anxieties were alleviated by events orchestrated to fill them with irrational nationalistic pride and exceptionalism. Oh those were the days. Like lemmings they went marching off into the chaos of war and more war -- there was an empire to build -- German interests to defend; enemies to be defeated.
My husband and I have decided we don't need many more 'signs' before we leave the belly of the monster -- while we still can.

[tlcandie]

19. Democracy NOW! ... The Miami Model

http://www.democracynow.org/static/miamimodel.shtml

<snip>
But that was not enough. The police then attacked the dispersing crowd, chasing about 30 people into a corner. They shoved them to the ground and beat them. They gassed them at close range. My colleague from Democracy Now!, Ana Nogueira, and I got separated in the mayhem. I was lucky to end up on the "safe" side of the street. Ana was in the melee. As she did her job - videotaping the action - Ana was wearing her press credentials in plain sight. As the police began handcuffing people, Ana told them she was a journalist. One of the officers said, "She's not with us, she's not with us," meaning that although Ana was clearly a journalist, she was not the friendly type. She was not embedded with the police and therefore had to be arrested.

In police custody, the authorities made Ana remove her clothes because they were soaked with pepper spray. The police forced her to strip naked in front of male officers. Despite calls from Democracy Now!, the ACLU, lawyers and others protesting Ana's arrest and detention, she was held in a cockroach-filled jail cell until 3:30 am. She was only released after I posted a $500 bond. Other independent journalists remained locked up for much longer and face serious charges, some of them felonies. In the end, Ana was charged with "failure to disperse."
<snip>


EDIT: Audio and visual there as well if you are so inclined.

[KoKo]

21. What are they planning to do about this? Thanks for the links about this

I had wondered what happened but not checked for the follow up. Bookmarked to read later. Don't hear any outcries from "mainstream press" about this. But then I suppose one wouldn't expect it these days.

[KoKo]

22. Kick!

:kick:

[wanderingbear]

23. THe use of Government has ben and always will be..

the control of the General poulation.