Nader getting beat up on Crossfire

[kerry-is-my-prez]

Even Novak is beating him up!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. the corporate media?

No, say it ain't so! (snicker)

[Democrats unite]

2. Nader need not look to me ...

for sympathy.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

3. Is it just me or does Nader have some very screwed up logic

"We can beat Bush better with a two-pronged approach. Both the Democrats AND me."

[sandnsea]

7. Well let's think about that

Trying to be objective. If Dean is the candidate he'll get the left Democrats, traditional Democrats, and maybe the Greens. If Nader positions himself as a sort of unusual Independent that rails against Bush, maybe he'll peel off those centrist Republicans that Dean won't get and maybe even the far far right non-Christian Republicans. A sort of Ross Perot thing, maybe that's his two prong approach.

[democracy eh]

28. his logic is fine, but the method is flawed

I believe it is a valid discussion.

If the goal is to get W out, Where are the most votes?
Appealing to the already mobilized left?
or trying for those soft middle and disillusioned conservative voters who are PO'ed about the deficit, corporate giveaways and corruption and empire guided foreign policy. Getting those votes in a sense count twice as not only are they a vote for the Dem nominee but a vote away from W.

having Pat Buchanan run is wishful thinking and not really a solution.

The Dems need to be raising those issues and attracting those votes.

[liberalhistorian]

33. Jeebus, what an

arrogant prick, he really hasn't learned anything, has he? I'm glad he's getting the shit kicked out of him.

[LiberalBushFan]

4. .

.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

5. wtf?? Novak encouraging Nader to endorse Dean instead of running.

n/t

[Racenut20]

8. Novak pushing Dean so * wont have to run against Clark

Smart move. Nadar probably nieve enough to fall for it.

[Clark4VotingRights]

32. Not very subtle.

n/t

[ludwigb]

6. I saw Nader on CSPAN earlier today

...methinks he isn't running. He was merciless on Bush and hardly critical of Dean. He made a lot of sense, except when talking about his "two-pronged approach".

[Fleshdancer]

9. I think he's holding his own pretty well

He admitted that in hindsight, Gore was NOT the same as Bush because he had "no idea the Bush Administration would go off their rocker".

He was given every opportunity to knock the Democrats but he chose to shred Bush instead.

If Democrats were smart, we would bury the hatchet with the Green party over 2000 and try to work together to get rid of Bush.

The only thing I don't agree with is that while Nadar's two-pronged attack makes sense, it shouldn't be from the Dems and the Greens, but rather from the Dems and someone like Buchanan. Someone has got to talk to these moderate conservatives about how Bush is not acting conservative. I doubt they'll listen to the Green party.

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. Exactly! Pat needs to jump in here (Go Pat Go!!)

...and if his column last week was any indication, he's thinking about it!

[Fleshdancer]

16. Should we start writing Pat letters?

Reading words of encouragement from others may help him make his decision.

[Justice]

20. Not enough

to say now in 2004 that "Gore was NOT the same as Bush because he had "no idea the Bush Administration would go off their rocker".

Nader should have started acknowledging this in 2001, 2002, then I would have respect for him.

[Fleshdancer]

21. We don't have the luxury of time to hold grudges against the Green Party!

Forgiving Nadar doesn't mean you have to forget 2000. And whether we like it or not, there's enough blame to go around for how the last Presidential election turned out.

But it's election year right now. We need to focus on right now. Nadar and the Green Party are progressives and most certainly not our enemy.

We all need to take a deep breath and realize that for better or worse, we need them. We can return back to our differences once Bush is out of the WH, but until then, the Democrats and Greens need to call truce and ban together. If you thought these last 4 years were bad, what would this administration do when they don't have to worry about re-election???

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. He's spent the last 2 years ripping up the Dem Party instead of Bush

He's an opportunist.

[He loved Big Brother]

36. Sounds like the majority of Democrats

So busy cannibalizing each other, they don't have time to attack Bush.

[Iverson]

37. false

Nader has consistently been a harsh critic of the Bush administration. Now, which war-supporting Democrat am I supposed to vote for again? Maybe one who had a photo-op with Bush in the Rose Garden?

Thanks for all your careful research before posting.

[LiberalFighter]

31. Don't have to worry about Green Party allying themselves with Nader

Last I heard there were a few states where the Green Party was not endorsing Nader.

[Cat Atomic]

39. Yep. Buchanan could destroy Bush's chances if he chose to run.

I expect he'd get a hell of alot more support from paleo conservatives than Nader got from the Greens in 2000. Bush's immigration offering alone would drive Republicans to his campaign in droves.

[elfin]

10. His Ego has turned into Egomania

He refuses to face the horrid reality that he cost us the election (I know, I know - but he really did)

Now he wants to do it again. He has done massive amounts of good things in his career, but now he is "losing it" - and so will we if he runs and hogs the media which will delight in stirring up negativity for the Dems.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

12. He has a disorder called "Narcissism"

He's a text book example of it. Sorry - psych major here....

[Fleshdancer]

18. I imagine every person who runs for President suffers from narcissism

;)

[Hoppin_Mad]

11. I think HE did the beating up -eom-

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. You must have been watching a different show. Although - the worst was at

the beginning. I haven't seen anyone ever get the best of Paul Begala...

[Hoppin_Mad]

17. He made a valid point

That if the Dems had FOUGHT over Florida - the voters purged from the rolls, etc - they would be in the White House.

-edit spelling-

[Democrats unite]

19. And of course we Have Al Gore our leader...

to thank or not to thank fo that!

[redqueen]

23. cherrypicking states for recounts... grrrr

All this time I thought his advisors were to blame. Today I read it was his decision.

Idiot.

I will never blame Nader. Never, ever, ever.

[Hoppin_Mad]

25. Do you have a link ? Thanks -eom-

[AlGore-08.com]

27. I assume you are dissing Gore's recount strategy

Which is too bad, because Gore did everything he could legally to get the votes counted. He is often bashed for not asking for a statewide recount but

1.) In 2000, Florida law did not allow a candidate to do that, so Gore had to get Smirk to agree to it.
2.) Gore asked Smirk at least twice to agree to a statewide recount. Smirk was the one who said "no".

Gore demanded an FBI inquiry into allegations of vote fraud and civil rights abuses on November 13th, 2000.

When the SCOTUS stopped the vote count, the only legal avenue left was to challenge the Florida electors. This was something Gore could not do himself - - it required at least one Rep and one Senator to challenge them. And if they had challenged them, the GOP controlled Congress would have gotten to decide whether to accept the electors or not.

And if, by some miracle, the Congress had refused to accept the Florida electors, the Florida State Legislature had announced that if the electors ended up pledged to Gore, that they (the Florida State Legislature) would just send another set of electors, pledged to Bush. Constitutional law is a little muddy on who would get to sort that mess out, but most of the opinions I read at the time said that the Governor of Florida would get to decide which set of electors were the correct set. That's right, Jeb Bush would have gotten to decide whether Smirk or Gore won.

So after the SCOTUS ruling, the only thing Gore could have done that had a hope of winning the election would have been to grab his old M16, slap on a blue headband, and start a civil war.

I hope that's not what you were suggesting he should have done. 'Cause as bad as things are now, a civil war would have been a lot worse.

If, on the other hand, you were implying Gore ran a lousy campaign because he only started 20 points behind Smirk, was outspent 2 to 1, was the subject of the worst smear campaign in modern politics, and only ended up with the most votes of any Democratic Presidential candidate (and the second highest number of votes for any Presidential candidate ever), well... we can only hope that the 2004 nominee runs an equally lousy campaign.

[Fleshdancer]

15. I agree

I also think it's time we kiss and make up with the Green party. But that's just my opinion.

[wryter2000]

24. I have nothing against the Greens

They needed to vote their conscience.

I don't feel the same way about Nader, though. Anyone could see Gore and Bush weren't "the same." The man thinks he's God's gift to liberals. Not even close.

[Fleshdancer]

26. like him or not, Nadar got 3 million votes in 2000

He's obviously saying something that resonates with a good amount of people. We would benefit from attempting to work with him rather than fight him.

[diamondsoul]

29. No, actually-

Nader just thinks the Democratic party is broken beyond salvaging. I'm fast coming to agree with his assessment.

Ego is a necessary component to believing oneself capable of leading an entire nation. Even the love of my life as far as candidates, Dennis John Kucinich, has an ego. He HAS TO or else give in to the pressure he's under drop out.

Gore and Bush weren't the same, but Gore didn't work very hard to set himself apart during the campaign. I hate to say that because I supported Gore, but that's the truth of it. He's been a big disappointment in a number of ways. Ah well, that's politics in the US of A.

[sandnsea]

30. I thought he kicked Bush butt n/t

[TexasSissy]

22. Possibly 'cause Nader would take some Repub votes away, too.

[Tinoire]

35. That's strange, according to the last thread and the transcript

It looks more like Nader's the one who did the beating up :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=986440#986676

[jpgray]

38. If this is the same performance I read, Nader did an admirable job

And folks here know I'm not his biggest fan, if for other reasons than the usual ones. :)