Lord Of The Rings fans, I have a question-

[Beaker]

what's the deal with Legolas and Gimli...?

am i the only one who thinks that there definitely seems to be some type of homo-erotic relationship going on there?

maybe they'll explore it a little more on the expanded version of ROTK due out in the fall...

[MnFats]

1. I don't know the answer to that question, but I demand to know...

...why we never saw Sauron again after the second film?
Are we supposed to assume he died when merry, pippin and the trees wrecked his crib?
Sauron was a great character!
I wanted to see him die horribly, like falling into molten lava (is that a redundancy? Is all lava molten?)

my 2 cents..

[Beaker]

2. in the books, i think that gandalf breaks saramon's staff-

and he is driven out of isengard. he later shows up in the shire as a beggar...i think?

but i agree- there should have been better Saramon resolution in the film. perhaps in the expanded version...

edited tochange sauron to saramon(sp?)

[flamingyouth]

5. I think the Sauron issue is resolved in the expanded edition

I recall reading that a while ago. Personally, I couldn't wait for the expanded version, so I went out and bought the DVD this week, which means I'll have to buy the expanded one later. Oh well.:D

[reprehensor]

26. Just read it a while back...

The remainder of the Fellowship encounter Saruman and his henchman on their leisurely way back to the Shire. He appears as a beggar, and even fools the company into not killing him on the spot.

Saruman then races to the Shire ahead of the halflings, and gets a bunch of evil men under his command to start fucking around with the Shire, making it shitty for the Hobbits.

By the time Frodo and Co get there, they have to initiate a coup to wrest control of the Shire away from the bad men. Several hobbits die (none of the Fellowship) and Saruman is finally dispatched and disintegrates. His henchman is run through by Sam, I think. It's a whole 'nother lil' story.

[Ediacara]

3. yes, all lava is molten

non-molten lava is called "rock."

[Beaker]

4. not true.

hardened lava is still called lava.

[Ediacara]

10. no....

it's called rock. It can be described by the textural terms A'a and Pahoihoi, and by content, ie: komadiite, basalt, andesite rhyolite, carbonatite etc, but it's refered to as rock.

[Beaker]

15. no...it's called lava.

when we walked from the parking area on chain of craters road to where the molten lava was going into the ocean, we walked across a field of hardened lava, not rock...at least according to the ranger and the signs that were posted.

[Ediacara]

17. Well I guess parking lot signs trump geology texts any day

You win.... :shrug:

[Beaker]

20. according to Webster's Dictionary-

lava 1. the molten rock that issues from a volcano. 2.the rock formed when this solidifies.

just thought you might like to know.

[Ediacara]

22. Again, dictionaries trump geology texts (and the geologists that write the

m)

You win :shrug:

[Beaker]

25. you keep referring to "geology texts"...

but provide no actual quotes from any specific books...

and everyone knows that textbooks are never wrong, and never become obsolete, right?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Ediacara]

28. Sorry bub

But speaking as a student in the earth sciences, who has actually taken more than "rocks for jocks" (if you've even got that far, which I highly doubt!), I'll trust my textbooks and instructors more than your parking lot signs or online dictionary.

The IUGS had created names a long long time ago for extrusive (lava) and intrusive (plutonic) igneous rocks based on content.

The term magma refers to liquid rock that has not erupted, the term lava refers to liquid rock that has erupted.

In Hawai'i what you walked across was a hawaiianite basalt (a rock!), not lava. Had you walked across lava your legs would have caught fire, and you would have died.

[AntiCoup2K4]

32. Enough, goddammit!

You can't be talking geology in a Tolkien thread, for fucks sake!! :beer:

[Beaker]

33. nothing to back it up but a bunch more talk, huh? oh well...

i guess that some people, even in the face of verified facts presented, cannot admit when they are wrong as wrong can be.

btw- i didn't use an online dictionary, I used my hard-copy Webster's Unabridged, which i keep handy for just such occasions.

Lava can be used to describe molten volcano effluent, that same effluent once it has hardened, and/or a bar of soap that works well to get blood off one's hands, so you don't have to leave jimmy's towels looking like a goddamn maxi-pad...

[Ediacara]

34. Like I said...

You're right, I'm wrong. Go ahead and believe your parking lot signs, I don't care.

[Beaker]

36. i'm believing Webster's, and many other sources

including the "parking lot signs" put up and worded by the fine and knowing volcano professionals at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park.

although i will give you credit for admitting when you are wrong as wrong can be. :hi:

[Ediacara]

37. Volcano professionals?

You actually think geologists write those signs? LOL...

In any case, continue believing parking lot signs and dictionaries (which have a knack of being consistantly wrong on science) all you want.

I have geology on my side, and you have parking lot verbiage.

But like I said, you're right, I'm wrong.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[regnaD kciN]

42. I'll trust Jimmy Buffett more than either!

Now my girl quickly say to me
Mon you better watch your feet
Lava come down soft and hot
You better lava me now or lava me not

[GreyPilgrim]

8. Saurman

I think you are talking about seeing more of Saurman, instead of Sauron. Sauron is the one who forged the rings initially - and is now represented by the lidless eye. Saurman, on the other hand, is the wizard who lives in Isengard. Just FYI.
Also, I'd highly recommend reading the books.
Cheers.

[NashVegas]

11. I've Seen It Said, Too

that Sauron will be shown in the extended.

Not sure how I feel about that.

[Beaker]

12. i was having trouble with arowyn and eowyn as well...

too similar sounding.

[regnaD kciN]

43. So did Aragorn, I think...

:evilgrin:

[LWolf]

46. Arwen.

[LWolf]

44. Saruman.

[1monster]

9. I think you mean Saruman?

[Myrina]

6. The Elves and the Dwarves do not like each other

Historically, their 'tribes' did not get along well.
The rivalry between the two, combined with the 'forced kinship' of Frodo's fellowship, made them have to get along, and they developed a sort of grudging-respect for each other.


Homo erotic ? Uhh, I don't think so.


:hi:

[Beaker]

14. in the books, gimli and legolas remain together after the defeat of Sauron

and it is rumoured that eventually they made a boat, and went together to the grey havens.

and neither is ever romantically linked with any women...

[NashVegas]

19. the boat rumor

was that ever in the book, or did it come from some other notes, and make it into an Alan Lee painting? (I recall it was in a long-ago calendar but don't recall ever reading such a passage.)

[Beaker]

21. it's in one of the appendices...

it was written by tolkien, if that's what you're asking.

[sundog]

7. While we're on the subject...

can anyone tell me if the expanded "two Towers" is better than the theatrical... I made the horrible mistake of reading the books after I saw "Fellowship," and was susequently disappointed by TTT...

Does ROTK stay more faithful to the text?

[MrSlayer]

13. No, not at all.

ROTK was the worst of the three as far as staying true to the book and that's saying a lot since the first two destroyed the story. The movies while visually wonderful were horrible to me because of how they changed everything. Read the books and avoid the films at all costs.

[sundog]

30. I thought I was the only one...

I'm not a purist, but when watching TTT, I started to get disturbed when I heard the orcs with those British cockney accents: "Oim a gonna eat yo..." I half expected them to break into "Meestah Scroooge/Faver Chreeestmas" stuff...

And the Ents... ugghh...

I haven't seen ROTK, but I'm going to watch it with an open mind. I'm hoping for the best.

I was just hoping TTT EE atoned some of that muble jumble in the theatrical release, but apparently not... So be it...

[NashVegas]

16. I Didn't Think So

The extra stuff that went into TTT is mostly stuff that fleshes out and justifies the character changes PJ made to Faramir and more propping of Liv Tyler's expanded role. Mostly.

RotK continued with (IMO) the weakening of Faramir and Théoden, and Denethor was written as a total prick (both in the extended TTT and RotK). BUT. It's a damn fine movie and otherwise stays true to the larger themes of the story, if not the finest details.

[m-jean03]

18. How about Sam and Frodo?

All I know is, Sam likes Frodo. A lot. :D

[Beaker]

23. but sam ends up with a wife and kids.

I have no doubt as to his hetero credentials...and frodo seems almost asexual. I always viewed their friendship as just that- a friendship.

[m-jean03]

24. One word for Sam -- REPRESSION

Someday, I will write the REAL story. His angst and pain. Eternal lusting for Frodo until the day he died. That kind of thing, you know. :D

[Malikshah]

27. Here are some answers--Spoiler alert

1) Legolas and Gimli form a bond over the course of events.
Gimli ends up showing Legolas the glittering caves (Helm's Deep) of which he becomes Lord of following the events in the story. As already mentioned--after the passing of the last of the fellowship, Legolas and Gimli sail to the Undying lands-- the last of the Fellowship to pass from Middle Earth. Absolutely nothing homoerotic going on.

2) As for the rest of the Fellowship and major players.

Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf et al-- Grey Havens to the Undying lands as in the movie
Merry and Pippin-- sucessful lives in the Shire, eventually buried near Aragorn etc. upon their deaths.
Aragorn lives another 120 years before passing away--Arwen "fades away" (nicest way to put it) after this, alone.

This is all from memory from reading the appendices at the end of ROTK.

As for Saruman-- yup-- the movies changed it all. Cinematically, the scouring of the shire was a no go. Audiences wouldn't get the "little adventure" after the climax of the destruction of the ring, etc. In the books, Saruman had fled Isenguard with Wormtongue-- Treebeard had felt they were not a threat following the breaking of his staff by Gandalf (a scene not shown in the movies)-- Saruman and Wormtongue end up with some of their goons in the Shire, take over, and destroy most of the shire in an orgy of industrialization and forced labor. Frodo Sam Merry and Pippin return to a police state of sorts, rally the hobbits and defeat the goons. They confront Saruman, and basically show that he's got no power left--Saruman goads Wormtongue to the point that Wormtongue slits Saruman's throat--Wormtongue is then dispatched with arrows by hobbits. Saruman's essence blows away on the wind.

None of this will be in the extended edition-- according to reports etc. Jackson and co never intended to have this as the story line. From what I gather-- Saruman is done away with in the beginning of the Extended Edition of ROTK (The infamous "Spikey Wheel" photo that had been on the net since 2000-it's an homage of short to Christopher Lee from his Dracula days some speculate)

If you look at the ROTK Theater Edition--it's clear in the scenes at Isenguard that we missed some action-- actually pretty poor editing in my opinion--on the other hand, I knew what had been rumored to have been shot.

BTW-- Shame on Jackson etc. for cutting that bit out. They could have cut a few minutes of battle scenes to but that in goddammit. I've heard and read all the reasoning behind it--and as opposed to other changes, this "cut" just does not cut it.

[bhunt70]

29. I agree, the neglect of Saruman and wormtongue in RotK is ridiculous.

I thorooughly enjoyed the movies though, best representation we have of the books on film

[Beaker]

35. samwise goes to the undying lands as well...

after being mayor-for-life in hobbiton(kinda like ritchie daley in chicago).

most of the people i know who read the books were actually quite happy with the trilogy, except for some minor this-or-that kind of stuff, and with the understanding that for a film, some things must be changed.

personally, one of the things i didn't like about the books and the movies was the way in which the heroes always prevailed, even when vastly outnumbered...and bringing in an "army of the dead" that can just blow in like a cloud and kill all the bad guys- it's just a little too convienent.

although- i will give Tolkien credit for not over-using the eagles as a "taxi-service" for middle earth...after all, when you think about it for a minute- why couldn't Frodo have just ridden an eagle from rivendale to the peak of mt. doom, and just dropped the ring in from there...?

[AgadorSparticus]

39. because sauron was looking for them and would have sent the nazgul

after them. they'd be toast before they would get to rivendell.

[DivinBreuvage]

31. Tolkien was an upper middle-class Englishman born in the late 19th century

OF COURSE the books are loaded with homo-erotic undertones.

[MnFats]

38. But Tolkien was a contemporary of C.S. Lewis,

one of the great Christian writers of.....oh, never mind.

[AgadorSparticus]

40. the dwarves and the elves did not get along. the elves thought

the dwarves were too greedy. not noble enough for their tastes. the dwarves were, in fact, too greedy, dug too far, but were damned if they were going to allow the elves to call them on it. so gimli and legolas had a nice little competition to help the storyline and ultimately, the sales of the video game.

[Paragon]

41. Like all "homoerotic subtext"...

...you get out of it what you bring into it.

If you want 'em to be gay, they're gay.