Internet Explorer is security hole ridden shit - WHY do so many use it???

[Selwynn]

IE is the biggest piece of shit web browser in the history of history. Every time people start talking about all the problems they are having with viruses, pop ups, ad/spy ware, etc. it is inevitably related to their running IE.

And then there is Mozilla or Firefox which has every single thing IE has, plus ten times more - built in pop up blocking, skinnable interface with downloadable themes, downloadable extensions for added functionality, tabbed browsing, speed, excellent security (people you can fuck with you when using IE can't when using mozilla - that's not to say mozilla is invulnerable, but right now it has ten times less security holes than IE)....

...so why, why, WHY do so many people still devotedly use Internet Explorer????!?!?!?!

[featherman]

1. I switched to Mozilla based on advice I read on this board

All I can say is THANKS!

[MuseRider]

2. Me too.

I really like it. Thanks.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. How do I get Mozilla? download it?

:shrug:

[miss_kitty]

24. yes about 19 people are posting this link now

http://www.mozilla.org/

[Kathy in Cambridge]

31. Thanks-Is it free?

[miss_kitty]

35. yes. if you can afford to, like any freeware, a donation is appreciated

.org on a URL generally means it is a site for a non-profit.

but yeah free...and i don't have the slightest idea where the other 19 posts were..:)

Firefox is a smaller program, with less stuff than the Mozilla Browser. i have both. i am trying to get it so i can get rid of AOHell...$20 for nothing, really, per month. on top of my broadband. i just need to spend the time setting up the mail on Firefox, to get my Comcast stuff to come through it....

[ghostsofgiants]

44. ...

Firefox is a lot more streamlined than Mozilla, and it's much better in my opinion.

Not only is it freeware, it is also open-source, if memory serves me correctly.

[gold_bug]

46. yeah, get Firefox

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

then install the Adblock extension
http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=10

It's free.

[billbuckhead]

3. Why are so many middleclass people repuKKKes?

Why is GM the top carmaker?
Why is McDonald's the top restuarant?
Why is WalMarts the top retailer?

America is a nation of morons. Stupid white men.

[freetobegay]

4. I use IE I have no problems, I refuse to use anything else.

Some security issues, that get fixed. IMO most IE problems are the user.

On edit: when your the largest user on computers why attack a browser that only a small percentage of people use?

[Selwynn]

5. LOL

[frylock]

26. never had a virus, no pop-ups, no security breaches..

and I have 7 Windows computers on my home network, one that's up 24/7, and maybe gets rebooted every couple of weeks. You are correct that most IE and Windows problems in general are caused by the user. If you update your computer periodically, as well as your virus definitions, and install an ad blocker you wouldn't have any problems. Complaining about how much Windows sucks is like not maintaining your vehicle, and then complaining because it doesn't run.

[Selwynn]

39. Why would I want to take seven extra steps...

..rather than using superior software that can do seven steps in one?

That's the question i think is at issue. Ignoring the advantages of better designed and tested software is like choosing a vehicle that must be brought into the shop for 300$ worth of maintenance once a week instead of choosing a vehicle that isn't scheduled of 300$ of maintenance for at least 30,000 miles.

That's the difference.

A good user can overcome bad software most all the time. That's true of IE. If you know what you're doing, you won't ruin your life by using IE, because you'll know how to overcome most of its flaws. The question is, why do that?

[miss_kitty]

45. i do maintain my computer

and last night i did the Friday night vigil-NAV scan, Adaware, Spybot SpySweeper, Updated everything, disk cleanup and disk defragment. i just got back up after having some major mystery program freak happen between Office 10 and maybe NAV w/Runtime Error smashed into everything. couldn't sign off, only log out. couldn't system restore. couldn't open computer manage. had to push the button.
this was after a trouble-free morning. nothing is recorded in the logs about this.

so i do everything i know to do, i still have major freakage on my box. i think some people have systems that are more stable than others.

i do the maintenance. Window sucks. :)

[frylock]

48. i had some weirdness start up all of the sudden with office 11..

was getting this error message everytime time I would open a Word document:

The command cannot be performed because a dialog box is open. Click "OK" and then close open dialog boxes to continue.

Open up your NAV>Options>Miscellaneous and deselect the Enable Office Plug-in check box.

[miss_kitty]

49. thanks! we'll see if that has some effect

my computer thinks shit is running when the task manager indicates otherwise....does this mean my office documents are unprotected now?

on edit: a spelling bad

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. Welcome to DU, Mr Gates!

So, Bill.... does Melinda know about the "gay thing"?? ;)

Just kiddin with ya, but you sound a little like a Microsoft shill there :evilgrin:

[Nomad559]

6. 10 critical flaws

Firefox has had more patches than IE recently

http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=616&Itemid=0

The Mozilla Foundation announced that it has fixed 10 critical flaws in its open source Firefox browsers and Thunderbird e-mail client in next generation browsers. The flaws were rather critical as they allowed access to the user's machine by an attacker. The attacker could also run a malicious code on the user's computer via an e-mail message or a webpage.

[Selwynn]

11. Not quite accurate, friend

it fixed 10 flaws....

- in a single update, not one at a time after being found by the public at large
- fixed because they found the problem, in conjunction with their open testing community, which they listen to, instead of ignoring problems that are reported and refusing to fix them until forced to by public pressure
- FireFox is an ALPHA TECHNOLOGY PREVIEW, as opposed to Microsoft internet explorer which is a SIXTH GENERATION RELEASED PRODUCT. Notice that the bugs you are referring to were found in their 0.9.x version of a beta product, not in Mozilla 1.x, which has been out and stable and ten times as secure for ages now.
- despite all of that firefox still remains more secure than IE ever was, and the turn around time on fixes to bugs (again it is pre-released software in development) is rapid. Firefox basically kicks IE's ass before its even left alpha and beta stages - that's pretty sad for IE.

The reality that mozilla and mozilla code base is drastically more efficient and more secure that IE is not in serious debate by any tech.

[miss_kitty]

13. well it looks like they fixed them right away

as opposed to microsoft which, for years through it's spokesmodels have said "Security problems? We don't got no stinkin' SECURITY PROBLEMS" and "Popups don't need to be blocked". and IE is WAY older than Mozilla.

So the Problems that mozilla had have been really outdone by MS, and their clunky IE and most Clunky 'Outlook' thing, which I've never figured out. and hell, i've figured out how to fix .dll and registry shit. without reformatting. although, i reformat quite expertly too. :)

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

14. Flaws and instability (for some) in the Firefox .093 release

First, I use IE, NetCaptor (which is a "tabbed browsing" front end for IE), Mozilla 1.72, Opera 7.53, and the new Firefox 1 PR.

I use all of these because I design Web Sites. I HAVE to know what pages look like in these different browsers.

I used at least four or five different Firefox releases prior to .093, all with no problems. I found that .093 locked up and / or crashed on a regular basis. One particular repetitive crash was when I would hit the "preview" button for a post in DU. It crashed 80% of the time, so I posted from NetCaptor. I hardly used .093 at all. I follow the recommended installation steps (NEVER installing new versions into directories containing the old ones, etc).

I acknowledge the fact that there are some people who will say "I used it and never had a problem." Great. I'm sure that's true. Other people did have problems, and if you go to CNET or do a little Googling, you can read their accounts.

I've since installed the Public Release of Firefox 1. So far, so good...but RoboForm hasn't released a compatible version update for this yet, and I rely heavily on RoboForm. Yes, Firefox has a password manager. No, it does not save the passwords in encrypted format, as RoboForm does.

So I'm spending half of my time between NetCaptor and Firefox. I never fully warmed up to Opera...it still can behave erratically or take forever to load certain pages, despite its "speed reputation."

[Selwynn]

15. I've never used Opera - how is that?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

19. Better than IE, but Mozilla and Firefox are better than Opera

Opera is another browser that works great for some and has issues for others.

Many improvements have been made in recent releases, and the "tabbed browsing" gained popularity in Opera before it did (on a large scale) in Mozilla and Firefox.

Opera had problems correctly loading and displaying certain pages, in part due to the way sites were designed with CSS and such do display in IE. People loved the SPEED of the browser, its stability, and the tabbed browsing, the fact that it is also "skinnable," but many tired of the quirks.

NetCaptor has the tabbed browsing, but it is still an IE front end. They issued their own security patch ahead of Microsoft's, but it's still IE under the hood.

I think that if someone is a satisfied user of Mozilla or Firefox, they would not be persuaded to switch to Opera. The Mozilla.org team pretty much took the best of what Opera had to offer and ran with it. Plus, Opera charges for a no-ad version...a major customer satisfaction flaw.

[miss_kitty]

20. "...One particular repetitive crash was when I would...preview..."

i am having a crash prob with 1.0 when i try to access reply pages on DU on occasion. once maybe twice a day (OK.i average a lot of posts a day), but now that i've had a computer, i expect the unexpected, especially on new programs. i report these through their automatic reporting, in great detail...i'm sure they'll figure it out...I've had problems with everything. maybe i'm unlucky. maybe it's the nature of PCs

[gospelized]

7. probably

cause they assume it would be too complicated to switch. they don't realize the interface is almost exactly the same, except easier.

[RC]

8. Simple. It comes free, in-bedded in almost anything windows.

Most people are proud of themselves if they can get Solitaire going. This is a double bonus. The first half is getting the computer turned on.

[olddem43]

10. Right - using non-MS stuff is for computer geeks.

The rest of us don't have the time and money to learn to install and use other systems and pay extra besides.

[Selwynn]

12. Hahahahahaha! :)

[Deja Q]

9. It's free, built-in, and has lots of features.

IE isn't bad, but I prefer Mozilla myself.

I'm amazed Linux never caught on, though that'd require some effort on the customer's part... can't have that... :eyes:

[miss_kitty]

17. you know now that i've had my PC for a year and a half now

and i've had EVERYTHING happen to it (first computer, babyboomer, couldn't figure out how to get THE RULER in Word back, on the Internet w/ no Firewall-pretty much learning by making every mistake possible), i have gained a lot more confidence. if i had money, i'd give Linux a looksee-because shit-this box has required NOTHING BUT effort on my part to keep running...:)

[Madrone]

18. You don't need money!

If you have a decent internet connection, you can download the ISOs for FREE. Or - if you don't have a decent net connection you can buy a cd for a couple bucks and have it mailed to you.

You can keep windows on your current machine, and dual boot linux. It's not that hard, and there are TONS of tutorials all over the web. WORST (although unlikely) case scenerio - you'll hose your windows partition and have to reinstall. The chances of that happening are very slim, however.

I'm a FreeBSD girl myself - but Mandrake is an EXCELLENT linux distro to start with.

[miss_kitty]

23. well i'll look into that for my next reinstall

'cause it's coming...:( i have broadband so not a prob...thanks for the info!

[Lady Effingbroke]

16. I have tried Firefox and still use it on occasion, but

I just can't stop using Maxthon. From what I understand, Maxthon (My IE2) is an IE shell utilizing the Internet Explorer engine, and thus subject to many of the same flaws and exploits as IE, but I just like the interface/features better than Firefox - Maxthon also has a built in pop up blocker which works quite well, and I prefer the tabbed browsing feature of Maxthon over that of Firefox. Oh well, :spank: me.

[lazarus]

21. I like IE

I like the features, I like the interface.

I hate tabbed browsing. Alt-Tab works fine for me. XP has built in popup blocking with skinnable interface, etc. It's fast.

I've been using it for years. I had one problem with security, because I didn't know about firewalls. that's it.

If everyone switched to Firefox, all the virii coming out would attack Firefox. If everyone switched to Mozilla, Mozilla would be attacked.

[frylock]

28. thought i was only one on the planet that didn't care for tabbed browsing

nice to know I'm not alone. :hi:

[Selwynn]

40. untrue that other browsers are only secure because they aren't attacked

Microsoft themselves has finally admitted that it's products fail in the security department. There have been all kinds of recent PR releases with Microsoft talking about how it promises to improve security. Those of is, like me - who actually work in the industry - know clearly that the problems are that Microsoft hastily develops code and that its quality assurance models and testing are substandard.

Any development engineer will concede to you that the code of the open source browser mozilla (and probably many others) is far cleaner and more secure - it is, in short - better. It is not simply that not enough people attack it, it is that it is not the soft target that IE's code is. Microsoft themselves, acknowledge this.

All the features you like are available else where, with safer, more secure code. Now you can accept that this is true or deny it, but its just a fact. Firefox is as fast as IE, I have to use both for work. The biggest advantages to mozilla in particular over IE is a longstanding track record of strong security an rapid response to security threats. That's opposed to IE, where every other week a new ridiculously huge security whole is announced. USA Today wrote an article for Businesses recommending IE no longer be used that that mozilla or another secure alternative be used instead.

Hewlett-Packard, the company I worked for issued an internal memo encouraging all employees to STOP using Internet Explorer and migrate to another browser, their recommendation was mozilla.

We are not idiots. IE is a flawed, substandard piece of software. However, if the way you use it means you don't ever notice problems and like what you get, great - keep using it. But if you do run into problems remember your alternatives, and don't dismiss the facts of IE's long history of horrible code design and gaping security holes just because your "satisfied."

[tridim]

25. From a developer's perspective

IE is by far the best browser. It's the most compatible based on established standards, and most accurate at rendering html documents which after all is the primary point of a browser.

The alternatives aren't necessarily bad, but the little inconsistencies that seem to persist are hell for perfectionist developers like myself. If I want a graphic at x-100,y-100 I want it at x-100,y-100, not x-101,y-99. IE handles the situation perfectly, every time. The alternatives don't.

[chenGOD]

29. Bzzzt. Try again.

IE is reknown for problems with CSS and PNG format graphics.

http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/02/25/sidestepping/index.php

Read and stop spreading FUD.

[tridim]

32. IE isn't perfect.. I never said that

but it's the best of the bunch IMO. Sorry if you disagree. Your opinion is yours, and mine is mine.

There are bugs in every piece of software developed since the dawn of the computer age. Pointing out a few IE bugs doesn't prove your point, nor does it disprove mine.

[Madrone]

30. lemme guess...

You develop using Front Page?

[tridim]

33. I develop exclusively in Textpad

a raw text editor. Been doing it that way for about 12 years. I've never used Frontpage or any other WYSIWYG.

Listen folks, I'm not telling you to switch back to IE. I'm just stating that I prefer developing for it because it renders HTML the best. I'm a visual guy, and that's very important to me.

[Madrone]

38. okay.

Most people I hear complain about browser compliance are using Front Page to create web pages. You are the exception. :)

[LWolf]

27. I almost never do.

Every once in a while I run across a site that tells me is "not supported by my browser." Or something like that; then I switch over to IE. I currently have 19 adware threats on my computer that Norton keeps reminding me of, but can't remove. Interestingly, I still run checks periodically with my Ad-aware program, but have not needed to remove anything that it catches since I started using Mozilla.

Just one question: how can I put my Google tool bar on a different bar, or shrink down the length of the address line and increase the space for the toolbar? I haven't been able to figure that out yet.

[Rooktoven]

34. Why do so many people watch Fox News?

People don't like to think.

[21winner]

36. I tried Fire fox and it sucked.

It was sooooo slow. When I tried to download plugins it was cranky. It locked up too. I have no problems with IE.

[Selwynn]

41. Yeah, ok.

Well, firefox is as fast as IE. I have to use both, so I know. Plugins work fine. However, if you don't have problems with IE, great. When you do, and you will, remember your alternatives.

[strategery blunder]

37. I use Firefox most of the time but I still need IE

1) To check my e-mail because the university network has a crappy proprietary system that isn't compatible with Firefox, and

2) For PayPal transactions, because for some reason, when I try to pay with Firefox, cliking on the "Pay" button doesn't do anything.:shrug:

For anything else, I use Firefox.:)

[Selwynn]

42. The pay pal thing...

I do pay pal ok with firefox. However, I did have a problem with non-responsive buttons once (not since the first 1.0 public release version of Firefox) and it turned out to be releated to my install of java and flash.

Installing java separate fix it (I think - I can't remember its been a while)

[ghostsofgiants]

43. ...

As a web designer, if people switched to Mozilla/Firefox?anything but IE it would make my life a lot easier.

Example:


Alpha transparency would make designing a complex layout so much easier.