Cat vs. Pig

[Magrittes Pipe]

Why is it that, in our society, the cat is a pet while the pig is a food animal?

The pig is smarter than the cat, after all.

What makes it acceptable to kill pigs, but not to kill cats?

DISCLAIMER:
I eat pork. I do not eat cats. I eat pork because it is delicious, not because of any animosity toward pigs. I do not eat cats, in part because cat meat is hard to come by in the U.S., but also because I have no desire to -- aside from the idea that carnivorous mammals tend not to taste as good as herbivorous (or mostly so) animals, I had a cat once, and I too see cats as pets.

But why? Does the cat's life have more value, morally, than the pig's? I would say no. So what's the psychology here?

[flvegan]

1. People care about cats, not pigs.

Cats have been labeled "pets" by people. Pigs are "food" (also a label given by people). The human ego defines value for things over which they have control. Cats have value because I like them. Pigs do not because they taste good. It's programming...Kool Aid.

Hell, many parts of this world they eat dog, and love it. Do that here, and you might get lynched.

DISCLAIMER: I don't eat anything with a face or a mother.

[Magrittes Pipe]

6. Exactly.

Clearly, we differ on the eating of animals, but we agree on the moral relativism angle.

There is no logical reason to believe that the killing of a cat, qua cat, is ethically worse than the killing of a pig, qua pig.

[redqueen]

9. Logically, to me... it should be worse to eat a pig.

They're smarter than cats.

[Magrittes Pipe]

11. Pigs are, far and away, the most intelligent common food animal in the US.

I wish they weren't so yummy. :(

[redqueen]

16. Glad you put 'common' in there.

Octopi are quite smart too... and, sadly, I love to eat their tentacles. :(

That somehow mitigates my guilt for loving pork products... a little.

[entanglement]

32. Wow, couldn't have said it better

:yourock:

[TyeDye75]

2. Theres not much meat on a cat

[MsAnthropy]

3. The cuddle factor

[XNASA]

4. Well I once had a cat who was very delicious.

So that blows a big fuckin' hole in your theory.

[RagingInMiami]

5. Ever try to put a live in an oven?

[crispini]

7. Ooo. This seems like a much more interesting flamewar.

Well, for one thing, the cat is cute, fuzzy, and more easily domesticated. I'm not sure you could housetrain a pig. I know some people do keep potbelly pigs as pets, though.

On a purely academic, intellectual level, there is no reason why cats should not be food animals as well as pigs. They are considered as such in certain parts of China (as well as dogs). On an emotional level, of course, once the cat is domesticated, it is also anthropomorphized -- see "fur child," "fur baby," etc. We give the cat human attributes and consider them part of our family in a way that we *could* do to pigs, but usually do not.

If you're asking about the heat and light going on in THIS board, of course, I think the REAL cause is that some people expressed their willingness to kill their neighbor's cats without even ASKING their neighbor about it, or attempting to address the problem with their neighbor first. And of course that's a problem.

[Magrittes Pipe]

10. Wholeheartedly agreed that you shouldn't kill someone's pet.

The real issue is with the owners, in such cases.

Unfortunately, if you call the police on the owners of a problem dog or cat; they will, if they do anything, impound and euthanize the pet rather than give any real punishment to the owners.

Part of my question is revisiting a flamewar of a couple of months ago (in which I didn't participate), regarding someone's desire to kill cats that were preying upon songbirds at his feeder. Whereas it is the cat's nature to hunt, the cat's life is no more inherently valuable than the songbirds' lives.

[crispini]

23. Yes, but because of the anthropomorphization

of cats in our daily domestic lives, even if the cats in question are not pets but rather are feral and belong to nobody, the idea of killing them is unappealing to cat lovers. Even if it's not your "fur baby," it *could* be. That's where that's coming from. Birds (and pigs) are less popular, less easily domesticated, less "cuddly," and so of course the "cat" point of view is more widespread.

Honestly, if you take that to the extreme, though, where does the line get crossed? We are used to applying a sort of "hierarchy" of valuable lives to the animal kingdom. Food animals at bottom -- but even on here, you will find people who believe that those lives should not be taken. Then go up from there. Songbirds, cats, protected animals in sancturaries, zoos, etc. all have people who disagree on the value of their lives, for various factors. Generally the more "common" the animal is the less it is valued (songbird). Cats are common too of course but there you have the anthropomorphization of them.

Interestingly enough just today I heard a story on NPR where park keepers in Congo in the middle of a war actually DIED defending the rare gorilla there (and were able to save it). Here is a case when an animal life is actually valued ABOVE a human life even in those own group of human's estimations. That's pretty remarkable and yet it has happened before.

Anyway. I guess my point is that from a purely academic point of view (re: "life") of course the cat and the bird lives are no more inherently valuable than each other. However, from a socially constructed point of view we do this with MANY kinds of animals, not just cat vs. bird, and even on occasion value those animal lives above those of HUMANS.

[Magrittes Pipe]

28. My birds are far more cuddly than any cat I've ever known.

Granted, I've only kept parrots.

Still, they love to be petted, scratched, held -- one even likes to lay on her back in my hand. Try THAT with a cat. ;)

[crispini]

33. Mm, gotta disagree with you on that.

I don't keep birds, though, just interact with the parrot that my friend has. He's a nice, friendly parrot, rides around on your shoulder and lets you pet him, etc. But he's so fragile! My cats are invariably hanging out on my lap when I watch TV, a nice warm fuzzy armful, or they sleep between my legs at night. Just by dint of the fact that they weigh more and are more hardy, they're more squeezable. :)

[Magrittes Pipe]

34. Well, no, you can't really SQUEEZE a bird.

But I've never squeezed a cat that did not try to get away from said squeezing. ;)

[crispini]

39. Mine are very tolerant of me.

Gentle squeezing, of course. :) And I don't think they'd put up with it from anyone ELSE.

[Magrittes Pipe]

44. My cat never liked squeezing.

Especially not after I went to college and my mom moved to the edge of a woods -- for the last decade of his life, he was half-feral. :P

[crispini]

47. One of mine started off as feral.

Took a while to tame her. Now they don't go out at all. I'm afraid she'd never come back. She adores ME but she's not so sure about other people. Most of my friends have never even SEEN her, heh.

And right there you have another reason why people don't like the idea of people killing ferals. A little rehab, and some of them will make fine pets. Not all, by any means, of course, but mine did.

[hyphenate]

51. However, there is a baffling paradox

within some areas where the cat is abhorred without reason, and that is in children's cartoons. Where else can you have cute, cuddly mice being the good guys and the cat as the nasty predator? Where else can you have the mouse being the protagonist?

How many Mickey Mouses, Tom and Jerrys, the Secret of NIMH, Fievel and other mice outwitting the cruel and sneaky cats?

I have personally, as a cat lover, argued this meme with some people, trying to understand the desire by cartoonists to implant such disdain in the minds of children for felines. The mouse has never had such a wonderful propaganda as produced by the entertainment industry.

And the entertainment industry has other such situations: Tweety bird versus Sylvester, Babe, where the pig is the protagonist, and the "nasty" cat is the antagonist. If, in the latter, they had simply kept the cat from being "evil" there would have been no problem, but the producers chose to make the cat into the demon.

You begin to wonder how many cartoonists are ailurophobes!

[Brewman_Jax]

26. Interesting you bring up China

the language tells a lot about what the culture thinks about said creature. Pork meat is the default for meat, any other meat has to be specified. The character for cat (mao) is made up of the marks for beast, field, and grass/grain. Thus, cat is the beast of the field that protects the grain.

[crispini]

31. It's not common, but when I lived there

and taught at a university, there were a group of students from the north of China who would occasionally trap, kill, and eat the ferals around the campus.

Don't ask me how I know this. :)

[Magrittes Pipe]

36. Did they taste good?

I mean, if you sampled.

Feel free to PM me if you don't want people flaming you, I am genuinely interested.

[crispini]

48. No, I didn't mind the idea in theory,

but in practice, I didn't want anything to do with it. I saw the cat trap, I heard about what they were going to do, but when the rubber met the road, I didn't want anything to do with the details. (There's that whole academic reality vs. real reality again.)

We did, however, tell everyone on campus that one of the OTHER foreign teachers had tried the cat. :evilgrin:

[Zuni]

46. it is theorized that cats became domesticated

because they are so good at hunting pests like mice and such

Of course, they are also good at hiding in bags:
IMG]

[redqueen]

8. 'Cause they're not as meaty?

:shrug:

Plus, I bet they don't taste very good. People in China eat dogs becasue they taste good... but they don't eat cats. That should tell us something. Maybe.

[ET Awful]

12. Ever seen a pot-belly pig?

People do keep pigs as pets :)

[Magrittes Pipe]

13. True, and although it was quite the trend a decade and a half ago...

...it's still not the most common thing. ;)

[On the Road]

15. Every Time I Think of a Pet Pig

trotting through a living room, it makes me collapse with laughter. I can't help it.

:rofl:

[Lisa0825]

25. My sister had a mini pot bellied pif named Brutus.

She adored that little guy! He was litterbox trained. Had to give him away when she moved, because they couldn't find a town near enough to her job that didn't restrict pig ownership along with "exotic pets or livestock."

[Joe Power]

14. Pigs taste better

Hell, they SMELL better.

[asthmaticeog]

17. Cartoon logic.

Broadly speaking, we as a culture tend to privilege cuteness. It's why people get more worked up over baby seals and pandas than over other endangered species like say copperbelly water snakes or sphinx moths. And it's why people who eat and wear non-cute animals without even blinking will react in abject horror at the eating of dogs in impoverished Asian nations.

Also, the meat of domestic housecats tends to be tough, stringy and somewhat poor in flavor due to their diet of commercially available processed meat by-products. Now a nice, two-year-old grain fed cat? THAT'S some good barbecue, boy, I'll tell you what!

[Magrittes Pipe]

18. Oh, come on.

No cat will ever make it to 2 years old on a grain diet. :P

[asthmaticeog]

19. They get the nourishment they need

from the chopped-up fish heads you mix in so they'll even eat it to begin with. I gots da tight science, boyeeeee.

[flvegan]

29. But again, it comes down to common emotion

Every time you read about a cow/pig escaping from a slaughterhouse, there's outcry from people (including ones that eat meat) to just let the cow go live on a farm somewhere. They care about that particular cow/pig and associate with his/her escape. The cow/pig has been given a human quality, or rather, had that human quality realized by those that might otherwise eat him/her.

[asthmaticeog]

35. Yeah, anthropomorphism.

The fallacy that makes people think their cat is cuddling up because of "love" or "companionship" or some shit, when it's really only after some body heat.

[crispini]

42. Hee! Well, that's true, but they ARE nice and warm.

Guess it goes both ways.

[Lisa0825]

20. I worked a catered event at a mansion in Dallas several years ago,

and the owner of the house had a pet pig. I do not mean a miniature pot-belly pig, but a real, full-sized pig. That pig lived inside the mansion, among vases worth thousands of dollars, and the owner said the pig had never broken a thing, and was completely house-trained.

[crispini]

27. I know where that house is! In Turtle Creek, right?

I drove by there and I nearly drove my car off the road doing a double take when I saw them out walking the pig. Full-sized, honest to goodness, pig!

[Lisa0825]

30. You got it!!!

I don't recall the guy's name. I used to work at La Cima Club, a Club Corp club, and sometimes the main office would use waitstaff for catered events at members' homes. The event I worked was a fundraiser for some Republican, but I wasn't into politics back then, so I don't recall who it was. This was about 10 years ago.

[kick-ass-bob]

21. Pigs have much more meat

than cats.

How much does a pig weigh?

A cat?


(Don't bring up chickens, please) :7

[Magrittes Pipe]

22. What's a henweigh?

:shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

24. .

:grr:

...

Hens have breasts!

:P

[asthmaticeog]

37. I actually GOT someone with that joke last week.

Only it wasn't exactly a "henweigh." I told him he had a dickfor on his back.

[Corgigal]

38. Cats are very smart

because they don't listen to a damn thing humans say. If we started eating cats they would form a lobby and start eating us.

[Magrittes Pipe]

41. They WOULD eat us if they were a little bigger.

Hell, sometimes housecats DO eat us.

How many stories have you heard of elderly people passing away; and by the time the body is found, it has been partially consumed by the cats?

[miss_kitty]

40. here's why:

cats bury their poop. Pig's poop smells like-well, similar to human poop. cats also have an enviable fur coat. Pigs are bristley. Cats average 10-15 lbs. Pigs weigh upwards of 500 lbs, making cats a better choice-at least for apartment dwellers.

[Magrittes Pipe]

45. Damn. I shudder to think what humans you've been around.

My best friend grew up across the street from a pig farm.

August was vile.

[miss_kitty]

50. It's beacause pig interiors are similar to humans

In landscaping, we run across ALL KINDS of POOP. That's why it is wise to use a grass catcher when you mow.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. George Clooney would argue that...

max the pet pig. I give him credit. A lot of people get rid of their pet pigs when they get too big. :hi:

[imenja]

49. not for George Clooney

he's got a pig. We don't kill pets. We don't kill the little pot bellied pigs that are people's pets either.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

52. I don't think it is acceptable...

which is why I became a vegetarian 16 years ago.

I looked at my love of my pets and my willingness to eat others, and recognized the hypocrisy of valuing one animal over the other simply because I let one kind of animal sleep in my bed.

In my eyes, all animals have value intrinsically, not because I bestow it upon them.

[fryguy]

53. cleanliness, for starters....

cats are extremely clean and need only a litter box to do their business; pigs are, well pigs...it would be quite a challenge to live with a pig without sufficient outside space for them

[Magrittes Pipe]

54. Pigs are exceptionally clean animals.

They roll in mud to cool off, as they don't have much in the way of sweat glands. That said, they can be litter trained and they don't shed as much as cats.

Put a pig in an air-conditioned home, and it wouldn't be nearly as filthy as its reputation.

[fryguy]

55. thank you for clearing up my misconceptions

i wasn't aware of that...

my next comment would then be that cats are permitted in most buildings whereas pigs aren't. i'm not saying this is a right or wrong, but even with your comments about the relative cleanliness of the pig i think landlords and coop boards would be very weary of permitting what is considered a farm animal to live in the building. thereby making the keeping of one as a pet rather difficult for many.

i recognize that is a bit of a circular logic - pigs aren't good pets because they aren't viewed as pets because they are considered livestock and not pets - but that's the way it has developed over time....your same question can be framed as "why do we consider cows appropriate to eat but not horses?"

[Magrittes Pipe]

56. True.

Horse meat is very commonly eaten in much of Europe. Not here.