I think we need to have a serious discussion about "punk rock"

[ghostsofgiants]

Yes this is a copycat yet another Grammy thread.

I was just thinking how stupid the rap thread was, and thought maybe I'd cite an example on the other side of the coin, using a band that's pretty fucking lame but successful, much the same way Jay-Z is, as an attempt to show that just because you percieve a genre a certain way, it doesn't mean the genre actually is that way.

Now I know that Blink 182 is acknowledged as one of the truly great "punk bands" but that was being embarrassing. Paul himself shot at least one "what the hell did I agree to this sounds ridiculous" look near the end.

Look I understand the whole "alienated youth rage" thing. I have youth for a number of years, even played in a couple bands, but they mostly played to half empty high school auditoriums and to date, that I am aware, have not gotten record contracts...but then with the right publicity and some fart jokes and a guy with a bunch of tattoos they would probably sell really well.

From time to time a good punk song will pop up but for the most part it is self-pitying melodic to the point of being whiney filler with the occasional fart and dick joke. This brings us back to Blink 182 (LOVED them as that Descendents band :evilgrin: ) who I understand HAD gone on indefinite hiatus. Good for him. Way to keep it real and do something for the kids.

I could go on but then none of this sounds like it's being sung by a California kid who wants to be bBritish and I let my mohawk at home so no one is probably paying attention anymore.

[enigmatic]

1. Figures that I have go to work now

because I could go on for awhile about what "punk rock" is; hopefully this will still be going on..

Oh, and Rocket From The Tombs is the greatest punk band of all-time:)

[ghostsofgiants]

3. Haha, I wasn't really looking for a punk rock discussion...

I was flippantly pointing out how ridiclous it is to write off an entire genre based on perceptions given by the mainstream of said genre. Punk seemed like a good choice because I know a lot of people here enjoy punk.

Though, on a related note, I watched "The Decline of Western Civilization" this morning (at the recommendation of JohnnyBlitz). Pretty cool documentary about the early '80s LA scene.

[enigmatic]

8. That's a great film

Darby Crash was a walking trainwreck, wasn't he? And Fear was was an awesome band. Lee Ving is a badass.

And i agree w/ you w/ the genre-smearing crap; it's ridiculous..

[ghostsofgiants]

11. Watching those Germs preformances was almost painful...

Darby was so wasted on stage. Really sad.

"Let's Have A War" to close out the film was perfect. Fear kicked copious amounts of ass.

It was my first exposure to pre-Rollins Black Flag, too. Was that Chavo Pederast they had singing at that point? I liked his vocals.

[enigmatic]

16. Chavo was singing, yeah

Keith Morris was in the band at one time, too; I know it's sacralige, but I loved Dez as "singer" better than Rollins, but that's just me..

[ET Awful]

14. I'd forgotten about Fear . . . I Love Livin' in the City is a freakin'

classic :P

Their version of "We Gotta Get Out of this Place" was pretty freakin' sweet too.

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

15. Lee Ving was great in that doc.

What a great front man. "What's up with all you long hairs?" "We're from Frisco."

Those lines were bandied about by my circle of friend all thru high school.

[enigmatic]

18. haha

He's really funny guiy, too; and he has a helluva good singing voice; I heard him sing "The Impossible Dream" at a show for goofs and the crowd was stunned how good he sounded..

[jonnyblitz]

19. so you did watch it.

:thumbsup:

[ghostsofgiants]

20. Yeah, it took for-fucking-ever to download.

Thanks for the recommendation and whatnot though. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

[jonnyblitz]

23. i can't bring myself to delete it from my hard drive...

the recording is pretty shitty but that's part of the charm of it.I did delete it once and ended up re downloading it. :P I also bought a book about darby crash called "lexicon devil". his story is a strange one. he OD'd like the day before or the day that john lennon got shot.

there is a "decline of western civilization, the metal years" also about 80's hair bands. (:puke:)

[ghostsofgiants]

24. I wish I could say I had the same interest in hair metal as I do punk...

But alas, I do not, haha.

Yeah, I burned it to a CD so I wouldn't lose it. Seems like something that'd be hard to come by. It needs a dvd release.

[Beware the Beast Man]

63. Where did you find that?

I've been looking for a while, even online. I haven't seen that film since Jr. High. Robo from Black Flag is awesome in that film.

and this classic line:

"There's new underground sound, there's noise, there's punk, there's power pop, there's ska, there's rockabilly, but new wave doesn't mean shit."

[ghostsofgiants]

64. Check your inbox.

[underpants]

2. How does "Wilson Phillips" fit into this?

Very funny. It wasn't just a copyCAT thread it was a COPY thread.

Very funny. This one clever.....keep an eye on him.

[ghostsofgiants]

4. Wilson Philips basically created psychobilly.

[underpants]

6. by "psychobilly"

do you mean hobo-country?

[ghostsofgiants]

9. Precisely.

[Crazy Dave]

5. Sex Pistols and The Ramones

The rest of the bands after them were amateurs.
:popcorn:

[ghostsofgiants]

7. I'm more of a Clash and X guy myself.

[Crazy Dave]

10. I forgot about them

Were they (The Clash) really considered punk? If so add them to my list.

[ghostsofgiants]

12. Yes, they were really considered punk.

[kwolf68]

55. Dude go back and check out history

Punk means ANYTHING goes...Not only was the Clash, Pistols and Ramones punk, but in the day the Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, Blondie, Patty Smith, Television, etc...were all considered punk.

Punk isn't just about a sound...Its about freedom, freedom to do what you damn well pleased. Punk in that day and age was for artists who didn't fit into the typical corporate rock paradigm. Only with complete artistic control can you have total brilliance. The problem with early punk is they really couldn't play that well. There is only so often I can listen to Black Flag's "TV Party" before I want something a little more innovative (which is why I like Black Flags older, more mature work) ....

Punk can be anything....

[Common Sense Party]

69. Clash and Husker Du. n/t

[ghostsofgiants]

70. I only started listening to Husker Du after a few comments in this thread.

Really good stuff. Can't believe I didn't get into them sooner.

[HuskerDU]

72. Drop them NOW!

Husker Du sucked. j/k HD

[ghostsofgiants]

74. Hahaha, yeah, you don't seem like someone who would dig them.

:P

[Common Sense Party]

73. Yup. I was kind of a johnny-com-lately to them. I got into

Bob Mould's solo work in the early 90s first, and his Sugar band, then found Husker Du. "Warehouse: Songs and Stories" and "Candy Apple Grey" are a couple of my all-time favorite albums.

I like punk that still has melodies, but isn't too refined and polished.

What HD are you listening to?

[ghostsofgiants]

75. "Zen Arcade" and "New Day Rising"

[ET Awful]

13. Punk rock hasn't been as fun since bands like the Dead Kennedys

DI, the Vandals, Youth Brigade, 7 Seconds, etc. vanished. The Vandals stuck around a lot longer than the rest, but the best punk came in the early 80's, kind of the second wave of punk.

[kwolf68]

54. 7 seconds is still around

And still as good as ever....Don't get lost in nostalgia....punk is alive and well...

[Dolomite]

17. What? Green Day's not punk? Yellowcard's not a boy band?

I kid! The answer is no & no.

Some of the old local boys:

[Throd]

34. Dude, you just made my day!

I am now currently blaring "Pain/Sick People" on my phonograph thanks to you.

[whatsername]

65. greenday

So maybe they're not punk, depends on who you ask, but they're on the right side and that's the most important thing. The link is now gone, but on the AOL live concert billie joe starts off Holiday with " ...So this song is a big FUCK YOU to George W Bush....this song isn't anti-American, its anti-WAARRRRRRRRRR........


-Whatername

[asthmaticeog]

21. Here's your serious discussion about "punk rock"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0962761214/sr=8-1/qid=1139516632/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8867891-9125668?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Possibly the one most worth having.



(P.S. Saccharine Trust 4EVER TLA :loveya:)

[ghostsofgiants]

22. Dammit, my school's library doesn't have it...

And I have spent far too much on school books to even consider such a non-essential purchase at the moment. x(

I'll have to check it out at some point though.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Inter-library loan...(n/t)

[ghostsofgiants]

51. Dude, good call.

If plan B doesn't work, that is now officially plan C. Didn't even think of that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

52. The last girl I dated was an ILL specialist at a university library...

so it was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post. :)

[jonnyblitz]

57. the majority of my library book aquisitions are via ILL.

:thumbsup:

[realisticphish]

67. ILL

is a godsend; if i didn't work in the library, i wouldn't know about it

[RandomKoolzip]

68. Damn straight. Greatest book about MUSIC ever written.

[cassandra uprising]

25. I'm buying you a Pizza

:applause:

[ghostsofgiants]

26. But I don't like pizza.

:(

[cassandra uprising]

27. Surely you jest.

How about this record



Oh wait. You might not like it. Those punk bands with their songs that just repeat the same words over and over. How unoriginal. :eyes:

[asthmaticeog]

28. *drool*

The title track of that album was like a goddamn battle cry when I was in H.S. That shit's soul music for angry folks who don't want to dance.

[cassandra uprising]

38. Isn't it? That's a pretty good description of the classic

I was struck by Primate1's op and how similar the argument's are bashing both genres. Overrated, Simplistic, unoriginal. Even if he deny's my pizza I still say hats off to the guy.

How's doing by the way?

[asthmaticeog]

41. Things are good, not much to complain about.

How're you kids loving NYC?

Which reminds me - I might be popping up to Brooklyn to oversee a print job at some point soon. If it happens, I'll drop y'all a line, maybe we can grab a bite and/or a beer somewhere.

[cassandra uprising]

44. Awesome!

Keep us posted! We would love to see you. :bounce:

Life is difficult, trying, glorious and all that. My stomach lining will grow back as soon as I land a full time job I swear. I'm resourceful and resilient!

[no name no slogan]

45. My best friend in college saw their farewell gig at First Ave in Mpls

second loudest show he'd ever seen.

The best show? My Bloody Valentine @ First Ave on the Loveless tour, 1992. I was with him for that one. We were only 10' away from the main PA stack, stage left. I didn't hear straight for four days after that one. LOUD.

[asthmaticeog]

46. Oh lord, yeah, I saw the Loveless tour in Cleveland.

They did the white-noise part of "You Made Me Realise" for at least ten minutes. It was GLORIOUS, but yeah, my hearing was seriously compromised for a couple of days after that.

Never did see the Hüskers - I passed on the Warehouse tour, figuring "meh, I'll see them next year." So of course they broke up.:banghead:

[no name no slogan]

47. EXACTLY

that's when the real hearing loss set in-- after 10 minutes of "You Made Me Realise"

And I know what you mean about the Huskers-- we were totally spoiled in Mpls during the 80s. We had all sorts of very good local music, but we never bothered because we all figured "they'll be around for a few more years-- we can always go next week."

The big joke here locally was Soul Asylum. They used to play an all-ages every Sunday night at the 7th Street Entry (part of the 1st Ave club). The big joke was "if we're really bored, we can always go catch Soul Asylum at the Entry". I was never a big fan, but it's kind of funny to think about it now, especially since our local scene has sucked big time for the last decade.

[ghostsofgiants]

29. Alas, I jest you not.

And don't call me Shirley.

I actually have "Zen Arcade" queued up four songs from now in Winamp.

[cassandra uprising]

40. go Padawan

go and get thee this record!

[ghostsofgiants]

42. Downloading as we speak.

[ghostsofgiants]

48. Downloaded. Listened to. Enjoyed.

Thanks. :)

[no name no slogan]

30. 98% of punk sucks, too

even back in the day, for every Sex Pistols you had a Slaughter and the Dogs.

The nuevo version isn't much different. Maybe it's because I'm getting old and I've seen it all before, I'm even less impressed with the younger generation of punks.

Of course, being a "punk" these days is a little like being a hippy in 1979, IMHO... :hide:

[ghostsofgiants]

33. 98% of all music sucks.

It's a scientific fact.

[asthmaticeog]

39. THANK YOU!

For ages I've been saying that kids now who dress like '77-style London punks are no different at all from the high school Deadheads who wore tie-dye and unibrauen in the '80s. It's someone else's nostalgia commodified, and must be resisted at all costs. </rant>

[Fenris]

49. It's essentially punk as a retro fashion statement.

No substance whatsoever. "Oooh, look at me! I'm so rebellious!" Yes, if it was 1976. Now you're just lame.

I spent my highschool years reading "England's Dreaming" repeatedly, but if you saw me in a crowd, you would have thought I was just your average dork.

[Throd]

31. Acknowledged by WHO?!?! Blink 182 is NOT punk...

It is poppy cuddle-core prepubescent dreck. God I wish I had a time machine so I could go back and strangle all the members of NOFX in their cribs.

[ghostsofgiants]

32. I was being very very sarcastic.

[Throd]

37. My apologies, I am on cold medication right now...

...and my sarcasm meter is on the fritz

[ET Awful]

36. Can you string up Pennywise while you're at it? n/t

[kwolf68]

53. What's the problem with Pennywise?

It's funny so much is made of the Sex Pistols...A good band, but also VERY much a pre-packaged commodity themselves. Malcolm McClaren was the brainchild behind "Rebellion Sells"....And its like the Ramones are now such the "hip band"...the imageless image is now an image type thing. Don't get me wrong, Ramones are wildly important in the state of affairs in music, but there are other great bands out there

Yea, I'm not big fan of Blink 182, but they did have the nads to take Bad Religion out on tour with them. BR isn't near as good live as they are on CD (because Graffin does harmonies on the CDs and can't do them live), but its still ballsy to take them out.

Pennywise have stayed pretty much true to their roots.

I think they are a good band and enjoy their music. I even like the stuff many old-school Pennywise fans don't like. I think "Land of the Free?" is a great record. Songs like "Fuck Authority", "My God", "Whose on your side", "Set Met Free", "Divine Intervention", "Something Wrong with me" and the title cut rage....They've hung in with Brett Gurewitz from the beginning and he's hung with them. Kinda like Rancid (who did break) they've stayed underground for the most part.

Personally, my favorite bands ever are the Clash and Bad Religion...no one else comes close.

[LynneSin]

56. The moment someone gets a Reality Show on MTV....

..is when a band ceases to be punk.

Have you seen that show "Meet the Barkers"

:puke:

[sendero]

58. I'lll never understand..

... who confused "punk" with "Blink 182".

Just because they are "punks" doesn't mean they make punk music. I don't see how anyone over 12 could listen to that crap :)

[catzies]

76. "Just because they are 'punks' doesn't mean they make punk music."

Nice. :headbang:

[ContraBass Black]

35. Do I need to go put my armor on?

[ghostsofgiants]

43. Always a good idea in the lounge.

We usually play nice, but every once in a while...

[TennesseeRain]

59. Nothing recorded after 1982 can be considered "real punk"

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. :)

[ghostsofgiants]

60. Dammit...

You mean to tell me I missed out on being able to legitimately call myself punk by a mere three years? x(

(Welcome to DU! :hi:)

[TennesseeRain]

61. You are certainly allowed to call yourself "punk."

Unless you were recorded after 1982 :) I was referring to a musical genre only. The true punk era lasted from early 1977 until "maybe" 1982 (and that's pushing it). Anything recorded after that is not punk, but the child of the punk genre. The Damned, The Ramones, New York Dolls, The Slits, The Jam, The Sex Pistols, The Clash....you know what I mean.

Oops. And, thanks for the welcome. It's nice to be here.

[kwolf68]

66. So....

Was music made by the Clash and the Ramones after 1982 punk? And New York Dolls were long gone by 1977...so how do they fit into the mix?

[ismnotwasm]

62. I don't care what punk is now

At long as they don't go back spitting those big ol' lugies on each other.

[Magrittes Pipe]

71. "Punk died the day the Clash signed to CBS."