Forget about Michelle Kwan....Debi Thomas got royally screwed in '88

[ScreamingMeemie]

Flawless performance, beautiful choreography..but NOOOOOO...They give the Gold to Katerina "fall down" Witt because of name recognition IMO.

To Debi Thomas :toast: first black figure skating medalist...first full time student figure skating competitor (she's a doctor now) and a class act.

I will never forget her performance to George Michael's "Teacher" on the closing day of the Olympics when they were just entertaining the crowd.

[Gormy Cuss]

1. I don't think it was just name recognition.

Thomas was repeatedly described as too "athletic" in spite of the fact that she was a very graceful skater. It struck me then as it does now -- athletic was code for too black.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. It's really a shame, because she BEAT the pants off of Katerina.

It strikes me as a code word too.

[SeattleGirl]

3. I agree

Heaven forbid that a BLACK woman, I mean, an ATHLETIC BLACK woman, win gold. The gold must go to an itty bitty white girl. :mad:

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. I swear...she was so coordinated and so beautiful. I was 18 and

cried tears when she lost. :(

[SeattleGirl]

18. I was angry

She was royally screwed.

[VolcanoJen]

4. Awww... I hate to disagree with MrsGrumpy....

... but I don't remember it that way at all. That was the year of the "Carmens", right?

I seem to remember Debi falling during her long program, isn't that what elevated Canadian Elizabeth Manley (sp?) to the silver?

I adore Katarina, and I think her Carmen was better in the Olympics. I'll admit that her tap-dancing routine in the short sucked eggs.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Yes it was...

You can disagree with me, just this once. ;) Both fell in there long program but Debi's had much better executed choreography and I think it was a case of the judges being biased. Katarina is a nice person ( I met her once IRL) but I still think Debi outshone them all. :(

[VolcanoJen]

7. You're probably right...

... but Katarina did have a smokin' red dress on.

Remember, those were the days when we blamed the Russian and East German judges for bias. Now, we reserve that for the French.

Oh, and by the way, you're absolutely right about what a class act Dr. Debi Thomas is. I loved watching her compete live against Katarina in the '88 World Championships, it was so amazing being there. I certainly prefer Debi to Chokie McKwan. (duck)

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. I remember that!

Katarina was/is a beautiful skater. :hi:

[Darth_Kitten]

9. Katarina was held up in figures, but didn't Debi have....

a less than stellar long program?

that's how I remember it, vaguely. :)

[LisaL]

12. Yes, she didn't have a good long program.

That's for sure. She had problems from the start. So, I have no clue where "she got screwed up because she is black" comes from.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. I did not say because she is black.

never did I say that. I said she got screwed because Katarina was "expected" to win...which is so often the case. Please don't misrepresent me.

[LisaL]

16. How about she ended up third because she double footed and

fell out of jumps? Cause that's what actually happened.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. How about apologizing for misrepresenting the original post first?

good lordy.

[chimpymustgo]

19. Debi had a MUCH more difficult program. She fell out of her landing

during her last (5th? - which she alone was doing at the time) triple jump, IIRC. She got totally screwed. But you know who had the best skate of the night IMO? I think her name was Midori Ito, and she was about 16 years old, and not "established", so the commentators said she should be absolutely proud and thrilled to finish 4th (I think).

The media, the judges all oved Katerina. She was a beautiful, graceful skater, but Debi had an unheard of degree of difficulty in her programs and kicked Katerina's ASS in the rink.

Has "the fix" ALWAYS been in?

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I forgot all about Midori...She did awesome that night too. That was

the Olympics that I started realizing it wasn't always about talent and performance.

[LisaL]

10. Of course it was a long time ago. But

Debi did not turn in a good performance, she double landed a jump on her opening combination, and had problems after that. So, no, she didn't get screwed up.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Yes...yes she did. She had an amazing performance...

and I am sorry that politics appeared to have had a hand in her getting screwed.

[LisaL]

14. She double footed a jump on her combination,

and fell out of two other jumps. I don't know who would call that an amazing performance. Certainly not judges. She actually ended up forth in a long program, but third overall.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. And all the while, Katarina was allowed to actually fall...double foot

two landings and single a triple axle...woohoo, great performance.

[Darth_Kitten]

20. She only won because she was held up in figures.....

Manley won the long program and imo should have come away with gold, but hey that's just me.

Katarina was lucky to get what she did.

[LisaL]

22. I am not sure what it is that you are remembering, but it's not

1988 Olympic games. Katarina had landed all her jumps. She had doubled one jump instead of tripling it, but that is far from falling.
"Thomas had aimed to evoke the fiery spirit of the composer's music right from the start. But as she opened her 4-min. program with a daring combination of back-to-back triple toe loops, she mistakenly touched both feet down on the second jump. That tiny error seemed to sap her usual strength. When, midway through her routine, she faltered and put a hand on the ice, it began to feel as though the Titanic were sinking. Witt, conversely, had held tough, her Carmen enticing and flirting shamelessly. Radiant in a red costume, Witt thrived on audience adulation, tossing provocative smiles. Though she substituted a double jump for one of her five triples, Witt was firmly in command. Her beauty and charisma dominated, even as she lay outstretched on the ice in a pose of death. In the end, Witt's was indisputably the Carmen of choice. By taking the gold, Witt became the second woman ever to secure consecutive Olympic figure-skating titles."
http://time-proxy.yaga.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,966927,00.html

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. .

Katarina was first of the two to skate her short program. Performing to a selection of show tunes, she was sexy and flirtatious. However, Witt barely squeaked out the required double loop in her two jump combination. Thomas, dressed in a striking black body suit, performed to techno music, nailing a more difficult jump variation than Witt.

Both the audience and Thomas thought she had beaten Katarina in this round of the competition. Debi was palpably taken aback though, when the judges thought otherwise. Still, she had risen to first overall.

Two nights later, the final group of ladies took to the ice. Earlier, Kadavy had to withdraw due to the flu. Trenary skated well, if somewhat conservatively. Ivanova performed poorly, dropping out of medal contention.

When Witt doubled her triple loop, the door immediately swung open for Debi. All Thomas had to do now was skate clean. Would she risk the difficult triple toe / triple toe?

http://www.geocities.com/debi_thomas_2003/web/debi_profile.htm


I guess, it depends on which way you look at it. I stand my ground. I am allowed to have my opinion that Debi got screwed, not because she is black, but because she was the better skater, overall. :hi:

[Karenina]

24. Ya know, MrsG...

I've always had my :tinfoilhat: theory about Debi's loss. Had she skated flawlessly, given the judging in those days (I do believe it's gotten better), Katarina would still have been awarded the gold. That would have put Debi smack dab in the middle of a HUGE controversy that perhaps she didn't want, on some level... The ice rink is an extremely hostile environment for black people. Surviving and thriving in it requires incredible mental fortitude.

[LisaL]

25. Well, we will never know, will we? Because she didn't skate

flawlessly, and made several mistakes.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. She skated a far more technically involved program far better than

Katarina. Sorry lizzy. disagreed here.

[Karenina]

28. Yes, indeed she did.

I was just addressing MrsG as a diletante skater... But thanks for your response. :hide:

[ccjlld]

27. Was 88 the year of the Battle of the Brians too?

I was so upset when Debbie lost. I thought she was a great skater. When she was hitting everything, she exhilarating to watch.

[Chovexani]

29. AMEN

Fucking racist ass judges.

I love Debi and she was always a class act, unlike that cow Katarina Witt.