www.whalesrevenge.com

[grace0418]

www.whalesrevenge.com is trying to get 1 million people to sign this petition to stop whaling.

I've read that proponents of whaling are claiming that killing and eating whale is a cultural thing, an ancient tradition that shouldn't be messed with because they've been doing it for thousands of years. They said that Westerners eat plenty of meat so we shouldn't be sticking our noses in their business. Three things bother me about that argument.

First of all, I'm in touch with keeping one's culture alive and respecting the differences in other cultures. But head-hunting, witch burning, human sacrifice, and genital mutilation are also in various cultures' history (and, sadly, present), it doesn't mean that we as humans should continue doing them.

Secondly, I've read (although I haven't researched it further) that the cultural tradition argument is misleading at best, bullshit at worst. Apparently, Japanese people on the whole did not eat whale until after WWII, and only ate it then because it was a cheap way of feeding the struggling nation. Except for in a few coastal villages, the "cultural tradition" of whaling dates back to around 1945.

And lastly, I eat meat and have some leather items. But that hardly compares in my opinion. Whales are a lot closer to extinction than chickens and cows, and last time I checked they weren't exactly domesticated. Unless it were a matter of survival, I don't see the need to hunt them.

[LouisianaLiberal]

1. Done

Kick

[grace0418]

8. Thank you for the kick.

:hi:

[sui generis]

2. yeah, it's an industry, plain and simple

young Japanese don't particularly care for whale, and most of them can't afford it and wouldn't spend money on it. The next generation has no interest in whale meat, and they are actually having to warehouse frozen supplies because they don't have buyers.

I would say they're involved in a Darwinian process - sooner or later it will cost more to keep storing unused meat than it does to try to lift and duck whaling laws or find an "alternative" use for dead whales.

Supply and demand is a sword that cuts both ways.

[grace0418]

4. Wow, I hadn't heard that about frozen meat not even having enough

demand. WTF? That makes the argument even more ridiculous. Whales being hunted and *not* eaten is truly barbaric.

[LeftyMom]

11. Yep

There's so much surplus it gets used as school lunches and even dog food. So what are they going to do? Kill more whales and move into endangered species.

[grace0418]

13. That is just sickening to me.

Why drive something to extinction when there is little to no demand for it?

[LeftyMom]

15. Pride and politics

Keeping whaling going keeps that constituency tied to the government- I don't know how big a factor this is in Japan but it's the main reason commercial whaling continues in Norway. In some coastal Japanese town dolphins dolphin hunts are a big deal and I'm guessing that there's concern in those communities that if whaling is eroded dolphin slaughter will be the next target.

[Tyler Durden]

3. #190103

watching the number tick over was the most fulfilling thing I've done at work all week.

[Kellanved]

5. Is there anything more stupid than online petitions?

It always is the same: x wants y million entries, which will - we are told - practically guarantee event z.

Be it the current "allow South Corea back into the World Cup", which promises a replay of the Switzerland-Corea match for 5 million "subscribers", or one of the countless other examples of online "activism". The constant is always some impossible great gain for a minuscule action. An action that is so easily faked, that it is certain to carry no weight whatsoever.

And icing of the cake: we are expected to give our personal data for the "common good". What will the people do with the gathered data? Why are they so often posing as a part of some respected organization, when they actually are not?


Sorry, it's just that I have my problems with the concept of online petitions.

[sui generis]

6. ach du lieber, start a thread

edited to add smiley

:P

[grace0418]

7. Well, let me think. Yep...

bringing down someone who's just trying to do *something* (however ineffectual that may or may not be) would be pretty high on my list of "Things More Stupid Than Online Petitions".

You do know that no one is requiring that you read or sign this petition, right? And, even if you *did* want to sign this petition, they're not exactly asking for your social security number and mother's maiden name. Your name and city are pretty widely available "personal data."

But please, by all means, go back to your declaration about why online polls are stupid. Because doing nothing but complaining is clearly far more constructive and effective at solving problems. :eyes:

[Kellanved]

9. point taken

Complaining about it is indeed right up there with the petitions.

It's that there's an endless flood of these petitions and many are indeed asking for actual personal information. Also I am not too fond of feelgood activism - a script that'll simply send a million names into the petition would be practicaly the same thing for observers.

[flvegan]

10. Here's a good read about the "tradition" and "culture" in

Japanese whaling:

http://www.seashepherd.org/editorials/editorial_060627_1.html

"There were a few isolated Japanese villages that had killed whales in the past, but Japan as a whole demonstrated very little interest in whaling until a man named Jura Oka made his way to Norway, the Azores, and Newfoundland in the mid 1890’s to study whaling. He learned whaling and purchased the equipment from the Norwegians. Hence, modern, commercial whaling began in Japan in 1898 long after the industry had been established in Europe and the Americas.

That first year, the first Japanese whaling company Hogei Gumi with one vessel, the Saikai-maru, killed a total of three whales. The harpooner and crew were hired Norwegians. The company failed, so Oka started a new company the Nihon Enyo Gyogyo K.K. on July 20, 1899 in Yamaguchi. Again the company employed a Norwegian harpooner and crew.

Norway was later to regret all the assistance they gave to Japan to learn whaling. One newspaper wrote this prediction, “Once the Japanese have appeared on the scene in any whaling ground, then the Norwegians will soon be banished from it!”

Other whaling companies began and some failed, but in 1908 the Nihon Hogeigyo Suisan Kumiai was established otherwise known as the Japanese Whaling Association with Jura Oka as the first President. This association in 1908 included 12 companies with a total of 28 whaling vessels and they killed 1,312 whales that year. The average kill for the next 25 years would be around 1,500 whales."

[grace0418]

12. Thank you for the link.

That's really interesting. So it sounds like it is quite a recently "tradition" especially considering how old Japan is.

[WoodyTobiasJr]

14. Done And Done

Only too happy to do this. Maritime conservation is something that I am actively involved in. You (you being everyone) might want to check out this group.

http://www.seashepherd.org/

[Kajsa]

16. Kick. You covered this very well.

I agree with you 100%.

Question- Is it true that the international ban on whaling,
the one Norway and Japan said FU to, is being lifted?

If it's true- Why? WTH- Don't they see the need for it, anymore!?!:shrug: :grr:

[grace0418]

17. Thank you. That's kind of you to say.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure someone else here does. Or I can try to find out.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. Signed...

and YEA! I won!
Thanks for postingthis. :D

[Placebo]

19. Signed!

:patriot: