Attention DU Straight Men (and women, too):

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Poll question: Attention DU Straight Men (and women, too):

Can you see where somebody who was gay find offense in this comment:

"If I was... ya know..."

[MrCoffee]

1. Context. I need context.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. What women you would have a crush on if you were "you know"

"You know" being lesbian and written by a straight man.

[MrCoffee]

4. Then, no, I'm not sure I see the offense there.

Probably because i'm an insensitive dick. But i really don't see where the offense comes from.

No offense, of course.

[datasuspect]

3. if they were extraordinarily thin skinned, yes

but that's just me. the socioeconomic class i belong to revels in taking jabs at each other.

lots of my friends in the neighborhood bars i used to frequent called each "asshole," "cocksucker," "this fucking guy" as terms of endearment.

mileage varies, to each their own.

and on edit, i used to hang out a lot in gay bars (any bar really - flavor of the week phase way back when), and those guys were some of the most ribald types (fun) i've ever run across. and to put ALL the disclaimers in place: i fully realize the club/bar scene is not indicative of gays/lesbians as a whole.

like i said, to each their own.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Yeah, but that's between friends and therefore different.

My friends and I insult each other all the time.

[datasuspect]

9. well, like the one poster said

the context is very important.

it would cross a line for male to make sexual advances toward a lesbian. situations vary of course, i knew a lesbian couple in aa a long time ago and we joked around about shit, but there was a comfort level there.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. in group honorofics though are different

i will call haruka a dyke and i dont think she will take offense

but when her uncle does it in anger, i believe she does take offense

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. Exactly.

You can call me a dyke all you want. I call myself a dyke. When he did it, had he not been on a phone three hours away, I would have ripped his shriveled balls off (or at least stolen the jar his wife keeps them in).

[MrCoffee]

7. well that's an offensive term...i'd be offended if someone called her that

but saying that you'd be attracted to someone of the same sex if you were..ya know? doesn't seem offensive to me.

but then, what the hell do i know?

[datasuspect]

11. context, context, context

and yes, you are 1,000,000 per cent correct

[Oeditpus Rex]

8. I don't understand a gay person taking offense

But then, I'm not a gay person. How can I understand? :shrug:



I also don't understand why the speaker thinks he can't crush on a lesbian. I've crushed on a few. Being lesbian doesn't mean they stop being women, or crushable.

[flvegan]

10. As a straight man

I can, but also as a gay-rights activist, I see all too often the shit that folks in the glbt community have to deal with every day. Like lesser citizens, oftentimes they're treated...total bullshit.

That said, I can see where someone without that knowledge might not get the offense taken

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. Check out the L word thread.

It was a case of digging his hole deeper and deeper.

[flvegan]

14. Intriguing...

I see how it started...hmmm. I'm with GoPsUx with his post in that thread. He says it pretty clearly.

[Guava Jelly]

13. I can see where it could come off as being gay is a disease or

disorder.
So it could be very offensive.
Almost as offensive as this term i have heard a lot growing up.
"there are black people and there are N___ers"..that to me is so racist it makes my blood boil!!!
It's racist to me because the person saying is oblivious to the fact he is a racist.
just like a person can be Homophobic and not
realize it

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

15. Exactly, I've only experienced that phrase coming from homophobes.

No one has ever used it "wistfully" in my presence before.

[Redstone]

16. It may be clumsy, but given that they probably mean it as a compliment,

I'd let it go if I were in the equivalent of your place.

I generally don't get angry at people for meaning well, but just being clumsy in expressing themselves.

If a lesbian said to me "If I was straight, I'd be attracted to you," I'd certainly consider it a compliment.

But I'm not in the equivalent of your place, so if you find it offensive, I won't argue the point.

Redstone

[MrCoffee]

17. I went back to read the thread in question, and I agree with Redstone

I think the poor guy picked a really bad way to express himself. I'm still convinced that Haruka hates me secretly for one of my very first Lounge posts, where I did exactly the same thing. I know what I meant, but that meaning did not get conveyed with what i typed. I still feel bad about that.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

18. Fortunately for you, I kill brain cells on a regular basis.

I have no recollection of whatever post you're talking about. I tend to only remember when somebody is consistently an asshole or whatever.

[MrCoffee]

21. thank god, i still feel like an asshole for it.

[datasuspect]

20. well you ARE pretty cool for someone from seattle

some of my best friends are seattleonians.

[MrCoffee]

22. who you calling "from seattle"? i'm from TEXAS!!!

here for work.

[datasuspect]

24. ewww

in that case, never mind.

naw really, some of my best friends are texonians.

[wildhorses]

25. langauge, in and of itself, can be so clumsy when trying to

communicate...reaching out for understanding, no matter how clumsy, should at least be met with some type of compassion...this is your time to further this person's knowledge. They are open to suggestions and is it up to you whether it becomes a positive or negative experience.


just my .02

[datasuspect]

27. it depends on the user.

[MrCoffee]

28. absolutely...i'm involved in a mix-up over language with another DUer

right now. it's not a flamewar, or even a disagreement, it's just bad choice of words.

sometimes it gets awfully hard to *say* anything in here.

[datasuspect]

33. there are people here who will definitely fly off the handle

with minimal provocation.

but there are people like that everywhere.

[Haole Girl]

19. I don't know

I really don't. But, I will never use it (not that I remember ever using it previously) now that I know it is offensive to others.

[blondeatlast]

23. I would expect something offensive to be coming from the utterer

of the "If I were, you know..."

You can fill the ellipsis with nearly anything and it would trigger a defensive response in me.

So yes, I can absolutely see why it might offend.

[hippywife]

26. The only thread I saw that looked like that

was this one:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5702629

I just took it as someone having fun with fill in the blank kinda thing. Like someone could say "If I was Bush, ya know, I'd resign." or "If I was younger, ya know, I'd go back to college." or something like that.

I guess I'm confused or something coz I'm missing the offense? :shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

31. It was in the "Attention lesbians/bi women: who's your l word crush?"

thread.

It was from a straight guy that came into the thread, and then proceeded to keep digging a hole for himself.

[datasuspect]

34. i read that thread

he seemed innocuous enough . . .


harsh much?

it's a pretty big jump from him saying "if he was a girl lesbian" to people attributing homophobia to the guy.

jeez.

it seems that you guys were jumping on him because he jumped into "your" thread: how is that fair?

i don't see where he dug any hole, but i see where he got the "dog pile on the rabbit" treatment for posting in a thread in a PUBLIC forum.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

35. Well, if you were a homosexual, you'd understand how it was offensive.

I have never *once* heard somebody who was not a homophobe use the phrase "you know" in reference to homosexuals, with the possible exception of today.

It's not harsh. It's based in reality.

[datasuspect]

37. how do you know i'm not?

look, i have no beef with anybody. but there was no specific/discernible malicious intent in what that guy posted.

i guess i just don't get it.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. I'm nearly 100% you've stated that you were straight in posts elsewhere on

DU.

[datasuspect]

39. i've never actually stated it

and what difference does it make whether i am gay, straight, bi?

[skygazer]

29. Aw, hell, I thought this was a comedy thread

I saw "straight men" and thought we were doing Burns and Allen or something. x(


(which I guess is yet another commentary on the delicate nuances of the written word)

[LeftyMom]

30. Yeah, implying that your sexuality is something that can't be spoken in

polite company is definitely offensive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

32. And the average person wouldn't take it to mean "wistfully" right?

[LeftyMom]

36. No. I can't picture a circumstance where I'd interpret it that way.

:shrug:

[khashka]

40. No, not at all

Gay people sometimes say the same thang. In a sense playing with sexuality and desire.

What makes me offended is straight women who would look at my very beautiful ex and say "what a waste" because he was gay....

Khash.

[Zomby Woof]

41. No

And I don't care, either. People need to worry less about being offended and more time growing a thicker skin. This isn't Victims R Us, is it?

If you let someone's hesitation in using a term a sign that they're out to offend you, methinks you protest too much.

[Cygnusx2112]

42. Thanks to everybody who responded...and all the IMs!

(Just got back from dinner).


I really didn't mean anything AT ALL by it. I guess I didn't fill in the ... ellipses because I was thinking:

"If I was...ya know...a girl...(but I'm a guy wink wink)"

I'm just sorta surprised you thought ill of me, before giving me the benefit of the doubt, and I did explain what I meant!

A lot of subtlety gets lost on the internet, and I guess that was an instance.

[bridgit]

43. no...

"...ya know..."......what :shrug: not that there's anything wrong with that :rofl:

[ZombieNixon]

44. I am offended that it is bad grammar.

The correct way would be "if I WERE...ya know..." :P

[HEyHEY]

45. I think it's a miscommunication

I think when alot of people say it, they aren't sure if they might offend someone or not and are trying not to... hence the..."you know"...

[Karenca]

46. No..........I cannot. . nt

[YellowRubberDuckie]

47. I see where you would be offended.

[rug]

48. Can't say . . . .ya know . . . .

[Midlodemocrat]

49. I read through that thread and I think it was simply an issue

of inflection not coming across on the internet. I don't think the poster meant anything by it. I think he was making an attempt at humor by stating that if he were gay *wink, wink, but I'm not because I'm a guy*, he would be attracted to one of those decidely beautiful women.

Not being gay, however, and not facing what you do because of homophobia, I can't flat out say that if I were gay, I wouldn't be offended.

Sometimes words don't convey the right meaning on the 'nets.

[mvd]

50. Locking

Please don't start a thread based on an argument you had on another thread.

mvd
DU Moderator