What Kind of Person Does It Take to Not Like

[MoseyWalker]

the Blues and Jazz music?

What kind of person doesn't like blues or jazz?

I wanna know

[graywarrior]

1. I love Blues.

Jazz, I have to be in the mood for.

[Critters2]

12. Ditto. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

2. People who have no education in music and can't appreciate complexity.

That's my guess as a lifelong musician.

[smtpgirl]

3. I agree

[Redstone]

9. As a lifelong musician, I don't insult people because they don't happen to like the same

kind of music that I do.

But that's just me.

Redstone

[Left Is Write]

19. Thank you.

I like smooth, jazzy music, but I do not care for the thirty-minute-long improvisational sessions.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

30. I'm talking about people who like New Agey wallpaper music

What I call "Death by Arpeggio". Arpeggios running up and down and up and down with no variations and no chord changes.

Jazz covers a lot of territory. People should be more specific about what they say they like or don't like.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. Hmmm.

My degree is in music, I've been into it for some 40 years, I appreciate musical complexity, and I don't like jazz...

[TheBaldyMan]

68. I'm tone deaf and have no musical education - I like Jazz & blues

it's all music, some is just a bit off the wall.

on edit: I can't stand trad or cheesey Kenny G stuff

[Skittles]

99. oh come on

you sound like one of those snooty wine tasters telling just what's good when in reality they are just telling us what THEY think is good

[Midlodemocrat]

114. Wow. Broad brush, much?

I have a undergraduate degree in music and I despise jazz. I guess I should throw my doctorate in the trash as well. :eyes:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

128. I actually agree with you here.

(Something I do not often find myself doing. :D)

To say that all non-jazz-fans are simple-minded is ridiculous. Some people just do not like jazz, just like some people (well, MANY people :P) do not like Steely Dan.

Just curious--why is it that you "despise" jazz? I've heard people say they don't understand it, can't get into it, just don't care about it, just don't vibe with it, but not actually "despise" it. It sounds like your circumstance is different.

:D

[Redstone]

4. Yeah, I know I'm SUPPOSED to like jazz, but I don't. So shoot me.

Redstone

[alarimer]

15. Jazz always strikes me as backrground music

not something to really get into. Although I did listen to some Miles Davis the other night. It kind of all sounded the same. maybe it's my ear.

[Redstone]

45. Though the one piece of jazz I REALLY like is Les McCann and Eddie Harris,

the live recording of "Compared to What."

I mean, are these lyrics timeless enough?

The President, he's got his war
Folks don't know just what it's for
Nobody gives us rhyme or reason
Have one doubt, they call it treason
We're chicken-feathers, all without one gut
God damn it!
Tryin' to make it real — compared to what?

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

59. *faints*

Try listening to ANY swing record. See if you're still asleep then.

:P

[alarimer]

71. I know there are different types of jazz music

Just like there are different kinds of country music or whatever. I should have said that classical strikes me the same way, although it is not improvisational at all.

I am learning to appreciate it. It is a little intimidating, though, kind of like wine. I think, also like wine, you find what you like and ignore the "experts".

[WritingIsMyReligion]

104. Truly bad jazz is indeed horrendous--not even fit for the background.

It also often betrays the spirit of jazz, which is probably by definition an immense bit of complex nonperfectionism, and the stuff that is background information is neither complex nor human-sounding in the least.

In jazz, there are some things that are just plain good, and generally live up to the hype around them. Miles Davis's Kind of Blue lives up to its hype, and is an album I always recommend to people just starting with jazz, since the songs, though long, are melodic, and its format (modal jazz) is conceptually simple--no weird-ass chords or chord changes, so it's easy to follow and understand. (That IS the problem with jazz--if you have no idea what you're hearing, it can sound disgusting.)

:)

[twilight_sailing]

46. Old timey jazz

like Dixieland is nice.

[Midlodemocrat]

116. I'm with you. I can't stand it.

I will completely avoid a venue that plays any type of jazz. I just can't stand listening to it. It sounds as though I should be in the dentist's chair to me.

[Mojambo]

5. I can take or leave most blues, but I don't like jazz

If that makes me a music simpleton, I really don't fucking care.

[Redstone]

7. What you said. Jazz people can be pretty snooty.

Redstone

[Courtesy Flush]

6. A freind of mine...

who refuses to grow up. He only listens to awful 80's hair bands.

The kicker. He's a drummer in a band. I told him he's the only musician I know who doesn't like music.

[ForrestGump]

29. What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians?

A drummer.

:P


What do you call a drummer with half a brain?
Gifted.



Why do bands have bass players?
To translate for the drummer.


How can you tell a drummer is walking behind you?
You can hear his knuckles dragging on the ground.


What's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
You only have to punch the information into the drum machine once.



Why are orchestra intermissions limited to 20 minutes?
So they don't have to retrain the drummers.



How do you know when a drummer is knocking at your door?
The knock always slows down.



How do trumpet players park in the handicap spots?
They put drumsticks on the dash.



What's the difference between a drummer and Dr. Scholl's foot pads?
Dr. Scholl's foot pads buck up the feet.



What is the difference between a drummer and a savings bond?
One will mature and make money.




"Mom, when I grow up, I want to be a drummer."
His mother scoffs and replies...

"Well, you can't do both."




A man goes to an exotic tropical island for a vacation. As the boat nears the island, he notices the constant sound of drumming coming from the island. As he gets off the boat, he asks the first native he sees how long the drumming will go on. The native casts about nervously and says "very bad when the drumming stops."
At the end of the day, the drumming is still going and is starting to get on his nerves. So, he asks another native when the drumming will stop. The native looks as if he's just been reminded of something very unpleasant. "Very bad when the drumming stops," he says, and hurries off.

After a couple of days with little sleep, our traveller is finally fed up, grabs the nearest native, slams him up against a tree, and shouts "What happens when the drumming stops?!!"

"Bass solo."


:D


***

Hey...relax. My brother's a drummer. And some of these aren't even all that true, much, always.

As to the original question, I love the blues -- real blues, not this 'urban-contemporary' crap that's been marketed as R&B since the '80s -- and I favor the raw Delta blues most of all. The more Delta and rural it is, the better.

I don't really 'get' a lot of jazz -- if, indeed, some of it is gettable (this may come as a shock to some, but I suspect that some of it only appeals to pseudointellectual snobs). I like the Dixeland kind, in moderation. I love Louis Armstrong, though he crossed and bent genres and maybe pure 'jazz' isn't all he was. I detest most 'modern' jazz, and the boo-be-doo scat singing can only be done well by a few people. Smooth jazz, the kind of stuff Los Angele's KTWV (The Wave!) used to alternate with New Age music, can be pleasant enough but it's largely elevator music to me.

So I love the blues and only like some jazz, and then not too extremely enthusiastically.

But rock 'n' roll will never die. :headbang:


*drum solo*

[Okiojira]

84. "What is the difference between a drummer and a savings bond?"

:rofl:

That's one I hadn't heard before!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

8. A really crazed person?

I know....A dirtbag pinko commie!

:P

To me, not loving jazz is like not loving the sun. Unthinkable.

:D

[Gatchaman]

10. I find jazz incredibly boring

and people who like it are usually pretentious pricks.

[MoseyWalker]

13. whoa

I don't even know where to start to answer this. I wish you a more free flowing mind?

[Gatchaman]

25. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about

I don't like jazz, so I'm a troglodyte.

[Blue-Jay]

73. No. You're a troglodyte who doesn't like jazz.

Do you see the difference?

[redwitch]

78. you just called jazz fans pretentious pricks

and YOU'RE offended????

[sammythecat]

40. I'm sure "pretentious prick" is just one of the more mild

descriptions you've heard about yourself, you hate-filled scumbag! "MoseyWalker", indeed. "Elite Bastard" would be more appropriate.

I got a laugh from that. You got kinda blindsided there. :-)

I've been a big music fan all my life and I think all the genres contain gold. Some more than others. Classical music for example. I think some of the most beautiful music ever written is in the Classical genre, but, 99 times out of a hundred, if I tune into the local Classical station, in less than a minute I'm looking for something else. Same with Jazz. In general, I can listen to Blues a lot longer than I can listen to Jazz.

I'm not very sophisticated about music, but I find that as the years go by I find myself getting turned on by a bigger and bigger variety of music. There's a lot of music I like now that 20 years ago I didn't like at all. That happens to me a lot. For whatever reason, I just didn't get it then.

Context and circumstance, I think, have a lot to do with appreciating music. I've become a big fan of previously discounted groups after seeing them perform on something like Austin City Limits. Stevie Ray Vaughn was an example of that happening for me. Sometimes, finally hearing music on a good sound system instead of a tabletop radio at low volume can be an epiphany.

One more thing. Years ago I got Bose clock radio that gets me up in the morning before work. I have it set so I can dawdle through a couple songs before I have to roll out. A number of times I've been in that half awake state and listened to a song I've heard a hundred times before and I suddenly get a whole new appreciation of the song. It's dark, deathly quiet except for the music, and I'm in this zen-like state of effortless openness. I'm not concentrating but, at the same time, I'm completely focused. I hear every note, every vocal inflection, and sometimes it seems as if I'm hearing the song for the first time. A song I dismissed, I suddenly appreciate. I understand why the artist thought this song worthy of performing. Now I know why others have liked it all along. It just took the right moment, the right circumstance, and it all clicked. I love those little musical epiphanies.

I got a little long winded, and a little off topic, but it's Saturday, it's cold as hell out, and I just drank 2 Monsters. What to do now? I think I might rearrange the house and put everything in alphabetical order. :bounce:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

52. Holy shit.

Thanks for the stereotype. Have you ever actually met a jazz musician? Don't confuse the yuppie smooth "jazz" lovers with people who follow Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dizzy Gillespie, Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald, all those cats.

Apaprently jazz haters are not devoid of "pretentious pricks" as well.

[Blue-Jay]

72. Pretentious pricks?

Do you see the irony in that statement, sir?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

105. Methinks he does not.

:eyes:

[LSK]

11. Green people with Red eyes

Yeah, those kinda people!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

14. Like blues, LOVE jazz.

:D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

58. Still listenin' to Miles every day?

'Cause I am, baby.

:thumbsup:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

69. Hehe, pretty much.

I do have practically his whole discography in some form or another. :D

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. I guess I'm that kind of person

because I just don't care for jazz. I'm a classical music junkie (with a B.A. in music). If you like jazz, fine; but please don't insult, criticize or sneer at those of us who don't share your taste in music.

[MoseyWalker]

18. I would never insult, criticize or sneer

and am sure you are finding a great deal of emotional peace and happiness in your personal choice.

My intention is not ever to sneer.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. Then I must have misunderstood the import of your question, which was

"What kind of person does it take not to like jazz or blues?" It sounded an awful lot to me like an implied put-down, as if there was a "sort of person" who was (strange? crazy? unenlightened?) enough to (horrors!) not like the kind of music you like. Had you put the question something like, "if you don't like jazz or blues, I'm curious why you don't," I might have responded less defensively.

[MoseyWalker]

28. yeah

"if you don't like jazz or blues, I'm curious why you don't,"

that is the gist of what I was asking. I didn't mean to post it in an offensive manner.

[Schema Thing]

17. I guess I'm just not cool enough

There is very little jazz that I like. As for blues, I like it provided it isn't too fucking repetitious. I guess I love Blue's influence more than I really love the blues. Keb Mo is just about right for me.

Funny though... I just thought of something. If you asked me to name some jazz that I really do like, I mention a few tracks off of an album (from the movie) titled Mo' Better Blues.

[Zookeeper]

21. I don't know. I don't dismiss any entire genre of music...

There's both good and bad Jazz, Blues, Rock, Classical, Opera, Country, etc....

I love BeBop, but hate smooth jazz. I like Punk, but don't like long, endless guitar solo rock ballads. I love Mozart, can pass on Tchakovski. Hank Williams, Sr. was wonderful, modern country...eh, not so much!

[Kutjara]

23. I like some blues. I like some jazz.

I like some of most kinds of music (with the exception of the elevator variety).

My enjoyment of Jazz stops with the stuff that sounds like someone throwing cutlery down a flight of stairs.

[S n o w b a l l]

27. I agree...

I like Grover Washington, Bob James, David Sanborn, Boney James and those types...but die hard jazz fans might say that isn't jazz. :shrug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

66. Most of us would, it's true.

Grover Washington I can stand, though many jazzers blame him for starting the smooth jazz genre, in a way. David Sanborn is bearable, though his stuff is mroe derivative, and the rest just fall off from there.

Let me tell you this: There is NOTHING jazz about Kenny G. He is the be-all, end-all of despicable faux jazz, worse than any other practioner of smooth "jazz" because of 1) his sheer popularity, which falsely promotes the idea that he is what jazz is, and 2) his unending arrogance in believing that he is as talented and soulful as the greats--his egregious cover of a Louis Armstrong song, where he overdubbed himself over Satchmo, is proof of this. My 8-y-o cousin has more soul, and a better idea of what jazz is, than that posuer of the highest despicable order.

[bullwinkle428]

70. Are you familiar with Pat Metheny's alleged rant about Kenny G?

Absolutely freaking hilarious, and totally spot-on in my opinion! I happen to be a fan of Metheny's, so I guess I'm biased in that regard...

http://www.saxon.com/stephen/pat-story.htm

[Manifestor_of_Light]

82. OMG!! He's absolutely right!! LMAO!

I love Pat Metheny too. I saw him when he was a pup of about 19 playing with Gary Burton's band, many years ago. I don't like Pat's unstructured stuff (like his latest album) but I DO like his stuff like WE LIVE HERE and SECRET STORY, ONE QUIET NIGHT, and the Soundtrack to MAP OF THE WORLD. And THIS IS NOT AMERICA. I like Lyle Mays, his keyboard player, too.

The MAP OF THE WORLD soundtrack is stunning. He was let loose with a string orchestra and it's really good stuff. Nobody saw the movie, because even though it had stars in it like Sigourney Weaver and Julianne Moore, it was independent and must have had limited distribution. I had to drive to Dallas to see it back in 2000.

[bullwinkle428]

184. I saw him twice live, back in the 80s, and he put on fantastic performances.

I haven't kept up with as much as I should over the past 15 years or so, but will check out your recommendations. One of the concert tours was shortly after the release of the "This is Not America" single from the movie soundtrack "Falcon & The Snowman"...

[WritingIsMyReligion]

108. That rant was what I drew my two points from, actually.

Dayum, I love Metheny.

:)

[S n o w b a l l]

182. Did I mention Kenny G?

No, I didn't so I don't know why your hostility about him came out on me. I wouldn't put the other artists I mentioned in his category. I see them all as very talented and see nothing wrong with creating a sub-genre in any genre of music. I like smooth jazz so sue me.

I appreciate all types of music, think there's room for it all and don't knock anyone for their particular tastes.

[S n o w b a l l]

183. I need your help...

Which of these other cds of mine should I throw out or hide from the company? Well, except for Miles, he's the man of course. But, if he's playing with Quincy does that make him a sell out? I know the new age stuff is a no-no but since I tend to like all kinds of music, I'm clueless as to what's real and what's not.

Miles & Quincy, Pat Metheny, Keiko Matsui, David Benoit, Diane Schuur, Diana Krall, Ella Fitzerald, Wes Montgomery, Tom Scott, Andreas Vollenweider, Dave Grusin, Ray Lynch, George Bensen, Jean Luc Ponty, Patrick O'Hearn, Hiroshima, Alex Bugnon, Willie & Lobo, Ottmar Liebert, Will Ackerman, Brian Culbertson, The Rippingtons, Billie Holiday, Stan Getz, Chick Corea, Chuck Mangione, Sarah Vaughan, Peggy Lee, Louis Armstrong,

:shrug:

[QMPMom]

24. Jazz makes me nervous. To my simple mind, it sounds like a

cat walking on a piano.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Except that the cat on the piano doesn't insist on

running up and down the keyboard for a half-hour at a time.

[ForrestGump]

31. Hey, Daddy-O

You're, like making my beret feel tight, y'dig?

Detracting from my hep-cat cool, dig?

Yeaaaaah.


*bongo*

[WritingIsMyReligion]

64. Jazz slang is so fucking hilarious.

I'm down to twos-and-fews, baby. Stop spending my bread!

:P

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. Some "Loud Sax Jazz" sounds like a cat caught in a fanbelt.

The real screechy stuff is not my cup of tea.

There's easier stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Qg9Z6Tpk0

[WritingIsMyReligion]

54. Oh man. You are *so* missing out.

:P :P

[The Traveler]

32. I dunno Mosey

but I bet I would like your CD collection.

[Broken_Hero]

33. That would be

me, basically...I've gotten some random blues cds for xmas, a few years back, and I wasn't impressed...and Jazz, I never much cared for it, truth be told.

[hfojvt]

49. Stephanie?

Thtwudbeme too

[northofdenali]

34. Although not a major fan of jazz -

I am a MAJOR fan of blues.

Jazz is sometimes too, um, disorganized (don't know if that's the word I'm hunting for) for me. I'm lucky, blues-wise, though, there are a LOT of good local blues bands.

Most of 'em play here during the open season:

[murielm99]

35. When I was younger, I listened to jazz

a lot. I tried to learn as much about it as I could, and I learned to appreciate some of the musicians. I'm glad I did. But I am not interested in jazz any more. I simply stopped listening to it.

I think that is because I started to listen to the blues. The music itself, and the raw emotion of it touched something in me instantly.

I started listening to the blues in the late sixties. At that time, not many stations played the blues. The clubs were not accessible to twenty-something white girls like me. I had to find the blues where I could.

It is so much better now. I think the blues became available to everyone because of some of the sixties rock bands who loved and were influenced by the sound.

I do like many types of music. I have a daughter who is classically trained. I love to listen to her play. I love classical music. But the blues, especially Delta blues, will always be my first choice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

36. Notice; Kenny G is NOT jazz

Kenny G is not jazz. Kenny G's playing is NOT improvisation.
Kenny G's playing is what musicians call "noodling". It's elevator music.

Likewise, Andrea Bocelli is NOT an opera singer. They let him sing opera, but he doesn't have the proper technique and training. He's too sloppy.

Pavarotti was a fantastic tenor thirty-five years ago. Now he's just a clown.
You want an elderly tenor who still has his voice and his dignity, check out Placido Domingo.

Charlotte Church is too nasal. I believe Oprah has a tin ear because she had Charlotte Church on her show when she was too young to be singing professionally, and Oprah practically slobbered all over her.

Sarah Brightman is out of tune on some notes and her vibrato can get really irritating.

And if you want to know what kind of qualifications I have to say these things, it would take way too long to list them.

As far as jazz goes, there are many different jazz groups, past and present, and players, and different styles. It's too broad of a genre to generalize about. Now if there is NO structure to it, and a soprano sax sounds like they're just playing random notes, I can't stand it. But not all jazz is like that. You've gotta name your artists.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. I don't think anyone said he was.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. I've seen Charlotte Church on TV only once--several years ago--

and my immediate reaction as a singer was, "She's straining on her high notes. She's either out of her ideal range or not breathing correctly."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

80. Yep, she's too nasal and too young and not trained properly.

Part of proper voice training is finding your comfortable range. And where your passagio (Break between chest tone and head tone) is.

For example I can do mezzo or lyric soprano parts. No high noodling for me.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

60. Yes, exactly. I must wonder what those who rail on jazz have in mind.

If the answer is Kenny G, Dave Sanborn, Dave Koz, Mindi Abair, Chuck Mangione, any of those fools, then PLEASE educate yourself in real, honest jazz. Try Ellington, Coltrane, Davis, Gillespie, and remember when you are hearing it that those cats were MAKING SHIT UP OFF THE TOPS OF THEIR HEADS. Anyone can spew shit, but it takes a jazzer to throw out mind-arresting awesome shit.

[Redstone]

63. Why should we need to "educate ourselves?" We know what we like, and what we don't,

without any education, thank you very much.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

67. I'm talking about the people who are ignorant of what jazz even is.

If you've tried listening to honest jazz, and still don't like it, then fine. I honestly don't care; it's your choice. But people who hear smooth "jazz," and say, "Gosh, that sucks," are under the erroneous impression that those "artists" are representative of jazz, when in fact jazz is far too diverse to stop at its dregs and move no further.

[Redstone]

83. As is country music.

"Stop at its dregs and move no further." I like that. No sarcasm whatsoever here.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

101. I admit to not knowing so much about country music.

I've heard the "country" "music" today, and despised it, but I haven't heard much actual country, such as Johnny Cash, etc. I'm not sure why. *ponders*

Yeah, I liked that line, too.

:hi:

[Redstone]

107. Your quotation marks were well-placed. Back in the late 1970s, it seemed that we were

on the cusp of a big change in country music (and I was a part of that, although a damn minor one). The purity and the soul of Country looked to be on the point of a revival.

But it didn't happen. Money, as always, talked. And we end up with Tim McGraw and that Pillsbury Doughboy Garth Brooks being the face of "country" "music" as you so eloquently punctuated it.

Damn shame, though.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

110. Hey, "jazz" today is all about the super-smooth Kenny G.

:eyes:

Fortunately, even in Maine, jazz is still a popular fly-by-night, indie form of music--there are a million competent jazz bands around. The underground support cannot die. Bwahahahaha!

:)

[Ann Arbor Dem]

175. For what it's worth...

Chuck Mangione was a legit bopper who played in Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers.

Sanborn might play commercial stuff, but he has chops, as does Dave Koz.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

179. True.

There's no excuse for Kenny G, though. :P

[Ann Arbor Dem]

181. agreed!

:hi:

[Nevernose]

154. A professional jazz musician (my stepdad) once told me:

A professional jazz musician (my stepdad) once told me, "Kenny G's just a whole bunch of notes going nowhere." Of course, he was lumping Kenny in with "jazz" musicians who have apparently taken too many drugs.

Kenny G started his career as a "heavy-metal" singer. Never forget.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

160. Ah, jazzers. Some of my favorites.

Re: heavy-metal singer--Are you SERIOUS?

:wow:

[Nevernose]

177. Yep. Saw the actual footage on VH1

Sans saxophone. I can't find confirmation on google yet, but then I either haven't entered the right search phrase or just haven't looked past two.

He was apparently a sell-out before he ever got famous for playing the sax, though I'm not sure if "sell-out" is the right word. You'd have to have some kind of soul to sell, first -- and if there's one thing Kenny ain't got, it's soul.

[idgiehkt]

41. I love blues

Jazz I don't know too much about and as far as the musicianship I can't really understand it.

I love Billy Holiday though...my brother is a huge jazz fan and tried to explain to me why what she does with her voice is so unique but I still didn't get it and still don't understand how her 'phrasing' is unique.

[bif]

42. Love jazz. I find blues pretty boring for the most part.

I thought of a good name for a blues band. The 1-4-5 Blues Band.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

57. Aw come on.

Jazz must be 80% blues and Rhythm Changes anyhow....

:P :P

:hi:

[Blue-Jay]

43. I call them "Cretins".

poopcorn

[twilight_sailing]

44. I'll tell you.

My step-brother is a lawyer who defends corporations. Last time I was home the story was that some guy had had his freaking FEET cut off in an industrial accident. Who was there to defend the honorable corporation and make sure they paid this footless guy as little as possible? My step-brother who has a tin ear and listens ONLY to C&W music, that's who.

[Redstone]

48. And so that, of course, means that anyone who likes country music is an asshole.

Right? Or am I mistaken about your post?

Redstone

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

50. I think what all this means is

that if somebody doesn't like the same kind of music you like, or if they do like music you don't like, there's something wrong with them.

:sarcasm:

[Redstone]

85. I get that impression, too. Hey, I like Peruvian Indian panpipe music (cf: Urubamba). If you

don't like it, well, you just don't GET it, do you?

Redstone

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

86. I like Tuvan throat-singing.

If you don't, then you are a hopeless Philistine.

;)

[Redstone]

90. Holy shit! I know what you're talking about, and I like it too.

So I guess I'm not a Philistine. But no matter; it's SO good to hear that someone else knows about Tuvan throat-singing.

I understand the mechanics of it, damn, it's hard to understand how it actually WORKS.

Redstone

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

93. If you can figure out how to do it, let me know.

It's fascinating. I like Tibetan Buddhist ritual music and Balinese gamelan, too. Cool stuff.

And Peruvian pan-pipes.

But somehow I can't warm up to most jazz. Go figure.

[Redstone]

98. I think it has to do with "circular breathing," which is something that some jazz

horn players do as well. It's supposed to work like this: you inhale through your nose while singing (Tuvan) or blowing a horn (jazz) at the same time.

I've been a musician for most of my life, but I simply CANNOT do that. I figure it must be an individual talent.

Hey, I can't warm up to most jazz, either. Especially the "improvisational" stuff. That just strikes me as being three (or more) guys on a stage, all playing in different keys, and all looking like they have a strangulate hernia the whole time.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

115. Ah damn, you wouldn't like much of jazz at all, then.

Remind me, if we ever on some distant sun meet, to never play Kind of Blue in your presence.

:P

[Redstone]

134. Why not? I'm genuinely curious. I am open to new thoughts. And I do not believe that

I know everything about anything, so if you have something to teach me, please do so.

Learning is my passion.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

137. Well, it's all nearly complete improvisation.

Miles sketched out the songs, which the other musicians didn't see until about 5 minutes before go-time. Only the themes were written out; everything else just jibed together.

:D

[Redstone]

141. But other musical genres have done that as well. Look at the Grateful Dead, whose

hour-long improvisations would make me get out of a warm bed and walk across a cold floor to turn off...not to mention the Outlaws (remember "Hurry Sundown" from the '70s?)..riffing only goes but so far before it gets boring.

"Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida, Baby..."

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

145. Fortunately, Miles does not get boring with his improv.

Or at least, IMHO he does not. His jazz solos do not involve riffs, especially not on KoB, and he knows when to stop. In fact, he famously berated jazz legend John Coltrane for having excessively long solos when Coltrane was playing with him live--when Coltrane gave some jive-ass excuse about "not knowing how to stop," Miles essentially told him that stopping isn't hard--you just have to "take the fucking horn out of your mouth," or something to that profane effect. :D

[Blue-Jay]

51. You're probably mistaken, huckleberry.

I love jazz, blues, rock, classical, ska, punk, and even country music.

[Redstone]

53. Ah, but I didn't say that you thought that way. I said that "twilight_sailing" seems to

think that way.

Redstone

[Blue-Jay]

55. Eh. I'm just dickin' with ya, strummer.

:D

[Redstone]

56. S'okay.

Redstone

[twilight_sailing]

186. Absolutely!

Just kidding.

[bif]

47. I saw Freddie Cole last night!

Nat's brother. One heck of a performer. Sounds a lot like Nat, too!

[Shine]

61. Someone who is different from you?

:shrug:

no-brainer answer, obviously....but true, nonetheless. :D

I can't imagine NOT loving blues and Jazz, personally, but hey, to each, their own....thank god for differences. Keeps the world more spicy!

[I Have A Dream]

62. My husband absolutely LOVES the Blues and Jazz. Me? Not so much.

Who's to say why... They just don't do much for me.

Personally, I ask the opposite question; what is it about Blues and jazz that people like so much? (Don't answer because I've heard arguments from lots of people, but I'm just not feeling it myself.)

:shrug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

65. To me, jazz is the essence of the human spirit.

It is a microcosm of life in a way that no other musical form can be, because it was born from the lowest and rose to encompass even the highest in its height of social power, in the '20s and '30s. It comes from drugs, from sex, from the human mind; its practioners were often literally mentally insane, drug-riddled, or both; it is by no means whatsoever perfect, or even remotely close to being so.

It is life, most of all, because of improvisation. Life is like a jazz song--there are all sorts of little rituals and motions you go through, situations that you know and plan ahead for, but much of it is making it up as you go along.

As I had a character say once: “If life is pretty menial and boring and sometimes filled with a great explosion of something or other, then jazz is just taking it all, mistakes and everything, and going full-out, as you please, just as we live everyday. People don’t have crystal balls, we don’t know what, exactly, is going to happen even a minute from now; jazz doesn’t know what, exactly, is going to happen even a measure from now."

[Manifestor_of_Light]

79. Bored classical musicians go into jazz

Classical music allows for improvisation if you are a church organist, and really good.
For example, Bach would improvise variations on his music. I know one organist who will play a postlude at church, and then start improvising on the spot. He has a Bachelor's degree and a master's degree in music.

There are many people who have gotten to the height of classical technique, and get bored with it.
And they go into jazz, because classical and jazz are the only two complex forms of music. And tehy can improvise.

Example: Jean Luc Ponty graduated from the Paris Conservatory in classical violin. Got the Grand Prix (prize) for outstanding student. Everyone who was anybody in French music went there, like Saint-Saens, Debussy, all those dudes. So what did he do? Start hanging with George Duke and Frank Zappa and do jazz. On an electric fiberglass Barcus Berry fiddle.

I got bored with playing classical violin after about fifteen years of being part of a human jukebox called an "orchestra". Three chord Irish stuff is too simple for me.

[Redstone]

102. OK, we get it. Jazz is the utter pinnacle of musicianship. You don't need to tell us

another 47 times. Yes, we all agree with you, there's no other musical form that's as good as Jazz. Whenever someone outgrows any other type of music, they turn to Jazz. Because Jazz is what Music is all about.

We get it, OK?

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

113. LOL Redstone.

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[Redstone]

131. Yes, but I've cut through the bullshit and gotten to the heart of the debate, you

have to admit that, yes?

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

133. In a typical Redstonian fashion.

I commend you, my friend. I commend you.

:rofl:

:patriot:

[Redstone]

136. And I asked you a question in a subsequent post. If you have something

you can teach me, I'll pay attention and learn.

Gaining knowledge from people who know more about a subject than I do...that is my hobby.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

139. And I answered.

:P

Actually, I have some Miles Davis to put on right now.... Thanks for reminding me! :hi:

[Redstone]

143. And I answered you back. But now, I gotta hit the rack. I wish I could stay up to continue

this discussion, because it's getting to be an interesting one (and a true DISCUSSION as well, not a flamefest), but I'm just worn out.

I'd enjoy hanging out for longer and yacking with you if I could, but I just can't.

Thanks for the good interaction.

Redstone

[WritingIsMyReligion]

146. No problem. G'night!

:hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

112. Bill Evans was classically trained before he started noodling in jazz.

And we all know how THAT turned out.

:)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

185. I forgot to mention that Ponty learned his chops from Grapelli

Stephan Grappelli and Django Reinhardt. I saw Stephan Grapelli when he was an old man, I think in the 1970s.

Dad took us to see Ella Fitzgerald before she retired. While Dad was probably listening to black musicians in the days of segregation, Mom was listening to the stuff that was Nigra Music Sanitized for Pure Southern White Virgins, played by the band of (I kid you not) Paul WHITEMAN.

Grandma told us to "stop listenin' to that Nigra music" when we tried to get Dick Clark's show on the crappy B&W TV set with the crappy reception, because it was out in the country.
I hadn't noticed that Dick Clark was real Black.

We just laughed at her behind her back as she left the room.

[sakabatou]

74. Shallow, rich people?

[Blue-Jay]

76. Yes, because jazz is a construct of shallow rich people.

Read a book.

[sakabatou]

77. Just a guess...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

88. So Art Tatum, Ella Fitzgerald, and Duke Ellington were shallow rich people?

Interesting.

[KamaAina]

151. Not to mention everyone in Storyville, the pre-WWI red-light district in New Orleans.

:sarcasm:

If there were any shallow rich people in Storyville, the "Birthplace of Jazz", they were the (white) customers.

edit: header; sarc

[thefool_wa]

75. Deathmetal Buttrockers

Possibly country western fans....

[Okiojira]

81. Right here.

As I've always maintained, I enjoy watching actual performances of blues or jazz; the musicianship is undeniably exquisite. Listening to either genre without the visual interaction, however, bores me to death. The music alone just doesn't do anything for me.

Flame away.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

118. ONG U CULTURELESSS FREEPER!11!1!1!

:P

[crim son]

87. Ummm... I don't like modern jazz.

When I worked at Berklee College of Music every now and then we'd go watch somebody play and the crowd would be getting into it and I always thought my god this is boring. I'm a freak; what can I say? :shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

89. What about the classics?

:D

[crim son]

91. Well, I'm cool like Miles Davis.

It depends whose chest I rest my head on while listening. :P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

94. I'm a HUGE Miles Davis fan.

:P :evilgrin:

[crim son]

96. Then I am too!

There isn't actually any music I don't like, just some I like more and some I like less. I think that I would be very happy listening to Miles Davis with you. :evilgrin: As, you know, background music.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

100. And also foreground music.

He's got some funky, dirty stuff, too. :evilgrin:

[crim son]

103. Like what? Now I actually want to listen.

Also, you've turned my mind to dirty stuff. I really wish you hadn't done that :evilgrin: :spank:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

109. Oh, your mind was already turned.

:evilgrin:

Miles had a great "electric" period. I'd start with Bitches Brew and A Tribute to Jack Johnson -- much more rock-oriented and funky, with electric instruments.

[crim son]

111. Thanks for the recommendations. I will find them.

And yes, every time I see "Starbucks Anarchist" you appear in my mind's eye, wearing nothing but a smile, so naturally my mind is turned. :rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

117. You filthy, filthy woman.

I like it! :P :evilgrin:

[crim son]

120. If I were filthy I'd be picturing all DU men sans clothing.

I'm just a wee bit soiled, because you're the only one who inspires me. Go figure :shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

123. Selectively filthy, then.

It's all good. :D

[crim son]

129. I think so! n/t

[crim son]

132. It occurs to me that I might be scaring you.

The bad news: I'm not drinking tonight
The good news: I will never show up at your door so you have nothing to fear :hug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

135. No, not at all.

I think it'd be a pleasant surprise if you did show up at my door. :D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

119. Define "modern."

:D

[crim son]

148. The stuff that isn't musical.

Lots of percussion and cheesy keyboard :) You know, everything that you adore :P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

149. BTW, what jazz do you have in your collection?

Or do you have one?

(Yes, I'm still bothering you.) :D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

153. Probably Grover Washington Jr.

:eyes:

:P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

156. ...

:popcorn:

[crim son]

158. I'd smack you but you're only a teeny, tiny, wee little girl.

:D

[crim son]

157. The only music that's even vaguely jazzy would be

Norah Jones "Come Away With Me". The STBE has a bunch of stuff but I don't know who it is. That's why I need your recommendations!

P.S. I like it when you bother me.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

161. Here's a starter list of jazz CDs:

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
John Coltrane - Blue Train
Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' else
Art Blakey - Moanin'
Duke Ellington - Live At Newport
Jimmy Smith - Back At the Chicken Shack
Modern Jazz Quartet - Django

These are all accessible in terms of sound, yet also considered classics. Plus, you can find most of them for $10 or less online.

[crim son]

163. Okay, excellent. I've bookmarked the page.

I know I like Duke Ellington. When I was a small kid my grandfather, a gentleman of leisure, used to travel to NYC all the time to see the "new" jazz bands. He also owned a record store and whenever I was at his house he'd be playing something. Duke Ellington I heard very often.

Thanks for the list! I need to expand my horizons. :pals:

on edit: crappy sentence construction

[Starbucks Anarchist]

165. Hopefully, this will help.

I'd stay away from the "Bitches Brew" recommendation from earlier for now -- you want to ease into the whole jazz thing, and fusion is probably not the best entryway -- it's kind of like being introduced to movies via David Lynch instead of discovering him later.

:D

Having said that, if you listen to Miles' "Kind of Blue," you'd have a hard time believing he's the same guy who did "Bitches Brew."

[crim son]

166. Sigh. It looks like I need to broaden my horizon in movies too.

David Lynch? Going to look him up right now.

So that's David Lynch. You know, I never saw one single episode of Twin Peaks. Anyhow, I now understand what you mean.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

167. LOL, sorry!

He did Blue Velvet, Eraserhead, The Elephant Man, and others, but you've probably heard of the TV show Twin Peaks, right? That's what most people know him from.

He's a very surreal, edgy director, which was my point. Think of Miles' "Kind of Blue" as Hitchock (artistic, but accessible) and "Bitches Brew" as David Lynch (artistic, not nearly as accessible).

[crim son]

168. Yes, I just looked him up and edited my ignorant post.

I know nothing! Except perhaps how to make good macaroni and cheese.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

169. I LOVE Mac and Cheese!

I'm series!!!!111 :D

[crim son]

170. Score one point for Lisa!

The game's not over yet & I intend to win. :P

[Starbucks Anarchist]

171. I surrender!

:P

[crim son]

172. You SO make my night.

You realize that I get the prize, yes? :evilgrin:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

173. I'm glad I make somebody's night.

Even if it is a gag prize. :P

[crim son]

174. Maybe you should go out tonight and try to find somebody

to give the prize to, in lieu of Lisa. Prize-by-proxy :) Somebody's got to take advantage of my winnings.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

176. I'm actually coming down from a cold.

So I can only share my disease through the screen. :P

[crim son]

178. Then you need plenty of rest.

The house physician at my university used to say that when he told you to drink plenty of fluids, it was okay to count beer as a health beverage. Since I hate beer it did me no good.

My kid wants to watch SNL with me so I guess I will have to. Thank you, SA, for talking to me. :hug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

180. A pleasure as always.

:hug: :D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

162. I'm telling ya, MILES! Miles is the reason for my season!

:P

[WritingIsMyReligion]

152. Hahahaha---most definitely no.

:P

[crim son]

159. I really don't know enough about it to be a good judge.

I had a Norwegian boyfriend once and he played the sax in a jazz band. THAT, I liked!

[many a good man]

92. Biology

good jazz imitates the way atoms vibrate and talk to each other. either you're tuned in to the harmony or you not.

for what it's worth, here's a cool video of ornette coleman and james blood ulmer on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na_3r_bf5gA

[WritingIsMyReligion]

121. LOL! I never thought of that!

:rofl:

Yeah, YT is chock-full of fascinating jazz vids, even Miles and 'Trane.

[Bombtrack]

95. people who are fun non-assholes

atleast with most Jazz fans. Blues still applies to a lesser degree.

I like songs generally, not meandering noise. "Jamming" is not a spectator activity for me.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

124. Jamming is a blast to do as a musician, especially trading fours.

When cats go on long soulful explorations, though, I can see how it could get boring, if you just don't feel that sort of thing.

[Bombtrack]

147. Hence the "not a spectator activity". A blast to DO for me and you, but not to listen to for me

Accross almost all genres.

Sorry to all the "String Cheese Incident" fans out there but to me that shit is just that.

Most Jazz fans (blowhards) annoy me. Most Dead fans (the "Hey I'm still cool" kbos) annoy me. The person who started this thread would of course probably annoy me.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

150. I don't think Mosey meant to be cruel; at least, he said later on this thread

that he meant the topic as more of a "if you don't like jazz or blues, I'm curious why not" type. Of course, that could be major CYA, so I dunno.

I love jazz musicians, even the blowhards, because they're so damned amusing when they get going. My improv teacher had me in stitches telling me about one of his drummers, who walked around a bar drumming on everything in sight, to the amusement of the clientele and the consternation of the management.

:D

[Skittles]

97. I cannot stand jazz

it just plain irritates me (sounds like a bunch of instruments that should NOT be played together).....blues is OK though

[Midlodemocrat]

122. Yup. I'm with you Skittles.

Blues is fantastic in more ways than one, but jazz is not my thing. At. All.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

125. Oh yeah? Well, well, well, well---your POST irritates me!

TROGLODYTE!

:P

(Joking, joking, joking!)

:D

[Skittles]

164. too late

I WILL KICK YOUR ASS :7

[SPKrazy]

106. I Don't Know 'Cause De Blues Is Da Bomb

and Jazz is so mellow

I'm getting mellow jest thinkin' 'bout that jazz!

:mellow:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

126. If you want mellow, never listen to swing.

'Specially Benny Goodman gettin' up in yo face 'bout that crap you call sweet music. He likes the hot!

:P

[1gobluedem]

127. I didn't THINK I liked it

Until I began working at a jazz radio station. After just seven years I ended up as president of the Ann Arbor Blues and Jazz Festival. I have met some incredible musicians in my fifteen years in the business. Yet, before I took this job I loudly proclaimed that jazz was only for the affected and I was a dedicated folkie. I still love folk but I have learned to love jazz; especially the Afro-Cuban genre. The music is so deep and diverse.

I will venture to say that most people who declare they don't like jazz and blues have a single definition of the genres, as I did when I defined (and disliked) jazz as improvisational bebop. The music is so all-encompassing; you might love jazz and not realize that's what you're hearing.

I recommend Ken Burns' PBS Jazz series for more insight. It taught me a lot.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

130. That's way cool.

Jazzzazazazazazazazazzzzzz....

:)

Tell me, how is our dear former DUer DJ friend? Still holding out well in MI?

:hi:

[1gobluedem]

138. She is

And she still rules the jazz world. I'll tell her you asked after her; it will make her happy.
:hi:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

140. Good!

Thank you for doing so. I think often of prog when I see threads here about jazz. I almost never listen to her show anymore, though. :(

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

142. Tell her I said hi, too.

:hi:

[1gobluedem]

144. I will

And WIR, keep listening. PM me if you want contact info; she'd love to hear from you.

[leeroysphitz]

155. Ed Asner