Questions for vegetarians

[gemdem]

From time to time, I've thought about becoming a vegetarian. But how does one make the shift from being born and raised a "carnivore" to being a vegetarian? I'm familiar with lacto-ovo vegetarianism -- it would be hard for me to give up cheese, so maybe this would be the way to go. Did/do you ever crave meat (like an ex-smoker craving a cigarette), did/do you backslide from time to time? Do you make a distinction between seafood and "red"/"white" meats? How do you deal with eating out? Where do you find good recipes? Are soy substitutes any good?

I'm in earnest -- looking for a way to have a healthier, more cost-effective diet.

Thanks in advance!

[LeftyMom]

1. Well, I'm vegan so my answers might be different than for ovolactos

but here they are anyhow, if they help.

I am just about the least likely vegan ever. My Dad worked at a steakhouse when I was a kid, my Mom is one of those Italian mothers who think anything less than real butter and whole milk is not worth having, my Mom and StepDad had a business doing leather work when I was in high school. My aunt and uncle had a livestock auction. You get the idea.

Anyhow, I decided I wanted to go vegan literally the first day I ever heard the term. I didn't know anybody who was vegan, but I'd read some things about how farm animals were treated and I wanted no part of it. So I quit eating meat that very day and phased out dairy and eggs over the next few months.

I've never had cravings for meat. White chocolate sounded really good a few times, but I found a vegan version. Since deciding not to I've never intentionally eaten anything with an animal product in it- once or twice I've missed some obscure ingredient or found our after the fact about product contamination.

I try to steer people toward places where I can eat. There are lots of review sites on line that show what items at a place are veg/vegan and whether people liked them, so if I'm going away from home I check before I leave. The only place I ever had a hard time finding much was out in the middle of the Nevada desert, but I packed stuff in the car. If I'd have been there for more than a day I'd have made sure to stay someplace with a microwave and mini-fridge so I could go to a grocery store, but for a shorter time period packing some luna bars and stuff works fine.

As for substitutes, some are good, some not. I'd advise going without for a few weeks so you're not comparing something you just ate with the imitation. Once you haven't eaten any cheese/burgers/whatever in a while, you can probably enjoy them on their own merits rather than comparing them to the omni versions.

LMK if you need any help, or come check out the veg group. :)

[mzteris]

2. you might want to visit

the vegetarian group on DU.....

but - as a relative newbie to vegetarianism - I'll tell you what I know.

Take it one step at a time, one day at a time. We became "semi-vegetarians" first - no beef, no pork - for about a year. Then we cut out poultry and seafood (because my son didn't think it was "right" to eat them.)

He'd probably be vegan if he could stomach soy or rice milk and cheese - but he's not been able to - yet. If you want to be vegan, it's 'tougher', but there are plenty of healthy vegans on DU who are willing to help.

Cravings? Hell, yes. I tell him 'it builds character'. Giving up something you don't like anyways - heck, anyone can do that! But to give up something you LIKE because you know it's the right thing to do?? Well - that's when it means something, I think.

I 'used to cheat' occasionally back when we were 'semi-vegetarians' - but I didn't let my son know. After I realized fully how important it was that we 'not eat animals' was to him, I quit cheating and haven't for several years now.

Eating out is MUCH easier now that I'm in a veg friendly city. :) Otherwise, you have to be very cautious about where you go and not shy about questioning the waiter - nor about sending something back!

Soy substitutes - some are better than others. A lot depends on what you want/like.

Recipes - there are some good books, but I use websites more - vegsource.com is one. usually I just google the recipe I want with 'vegetarian' in there.

Oh yeah, you have to read every ingredient label of EVERYTHING. Gelatin hides in the weirdest places. . . after you learn what to buy or not buy, it makes shopping a lot easier, too.

Good luck. Don't hesitate to ask for advice, help. The vegs on DU are great!

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

3. Lacto-Ovo is certainly the easiest.

You do have to be careful not to overload when you first start, though, or you'll lose the health benefits. In other words, eat something besides cheese omelettes/grilled cheese/vegetables with cheese sauce--you get the idea!

Salads and fruit can be found at any restaurant. Also, vegetable stir-fry, pastas, soups. Steak houses are difficult unless they have a fabulous salad bar. Indian food, thai food, so many possibilities.

My first vegetarian cookbook was "Laurel's Kitchen" and I still treasure my well-used copy. Of course, now there's the internet and I use that a lot. If you love to cook, you'll have no problem adapting a lot of your old recipes. I don't substitute with soy products, but I have discovered the flavored tofu and any of them are great as a pita sandwich.

Beans and whole grains are your friend. Embrace them, don't worry about the gas (people have reported great success with Beano--I've never had a problem).

Backsliding? Only when I go back to Maryland: I love steamed blue crabs! Good luck :)

[MazeRat7]

4. Well Ms. MZr7 is a vegan and I am "in transition"....

So there is nothing from animal parts in this house or served at any occasion. I knew this when we married and decided to "go along" until I could determine if this was right for me. Its been a couple of years and I have no regrets. No, I'm not 100% veg-anything.. but here is my take on where I am today - FWIW.

Several times a month I will eat meat (beef, pork, or fish). I absolutely do not miss milk and most milk based cheeses since they have always caused problems for me, soy is a god send in this department and I really prefer it to cow milk.

As for the meat, for me its mostly sea roaches (shrimp) or bottom feeders (catfish). I absolutely do not eat any bird of any kind and generally try to avoid beef and pork.

So at this point, I've got my diet down to something like 80% vegan and honestly I eat well. Given the pasta, veggies, legumes, and "fake-meats", I never go hungry or "crave" meat and frankly this took very little effort on my part. She cooks the meals and I think they are great!!!. Having a SO that is 100% vegan is a bonus in my book. I got real lucky. :)

However, for my part I never "promised" or "committed" to be 100% vegan/vegetarian... but I did commit to radically reducing my participation in the slaughter of animals for profit. Its for that reason alone I am hoping to finally eliminate that remaining 20% or so of animal product from my diet. At the end of the day what matters to me is my diet harms very few animals. Certainly today I harm many many less animals than when I was convinced a meal "had to include" meat.

So if folks like yourself would just commit to eating fewer animals, before they commit to eating no animals - that would be a major win for the animals. Think what would happen if every household in America had just 2 animal free meals per week. That would have a major impact.

In summary, some reduction is better than no reduction. I cringe every time I hear someone say they tired to be 100% veg*, gave it up, and returned to their old diet. Dont do that. Just do something that will make a difference to the animals.

Peace
MZr7

[Chan790]

5. My answers and some thoughts.

I think it's different for different people. Most, in my experience, make the change slowly...I woke up one day and never ate meat again, then cut out eggs 6 months later. I still consume dairy in small quantities...probably always will as I've never found a non-dairy "milk" which doesn't make me gag. I'm mostly organic (in my own cooking, eating out is a different matter) as well...which makes a real difference in how I feel. Sick much less than I used to be.

I found the cheese thing passes with time...I had a cheese issue at first, but over time I noticed that I felt different after eating it. Bloated, clogged, heavy. I still eat cheese but a lot less often that I used to and in smaller quantities.

I don't find I crave meat as much as the crave the things that associate with meat or specific dishes (in which I never really cared about the meat to begin with)...slow-roasted southern BBQ, Buffalo Wings, General Tso's. Some of these things you can find meat-free versions of. I can get General Tso's Bean Curd at most Chinese restaurants, and Buffalo sauce is good on almost anything from fried-tofu and seitan (wheat gluten, a common meat substitute within dishes popular for its' lack of taste, willingness to take on the flavor of whatever it's marinated or cooked in and meatlike texture. I've passed it off as meat successfully on a number of occasions) to celery sticks and carrots. Some...like the BBQ, you live without.

Backslide (into meat)...not really. I tried to go vegan, and slid back into lacto-vegetarian as it wasn't the right choice for me. I'll probably try again someday if I can find a dairy-replacement that I like and can eat/drink regularly.

I don't make a distinction between any source of animal flesh. This strikes non-vegetarians as strange. I've even had close friends assume that I eat seafood (and cook it for me at nice dinners and the such, saying "I made fish because I know you're a vegetarian." You kind of have to suck it up and smile and explain that you don't eat fish either.) I usually offer to bring something to these events with the alterior motive that then I know that there will be at least something I can eat. Eating out, I can usually find something on a menu which is meat-free and if not, I've never found a restaurant that refused to fix me us something quality and meat-free. (They want your business and that means meeting your needs as a customer.)

I have a massive collection of recipes saved at this point, several cookbooks, and am blessed that I can cook well enough to improvise a menu. The internet is your friend.

Some meat substitutes are better than others and you'll find that you have preferences. I've found a few I like better than the "real thing".

As for cost-effectiveness, if you make a lot of your food from scratch...you'll save money, possibly lots of money. If you buy prepared foods, you're going to end up paying more to eat.

[gemdem]

6. Thanks everyone for the advice!

I truly appreciate it. :hi:

[ncabot22]

7. What about bruising?

I've attempted, and am trying now, to cut out meat. I notice, however, that I get a lot of bruises on my arms and legs. Does anyone know what this could be? I really don't want to eat meat anymore.

[LeftyMom]

8. Low iron probably

I'd suggest you try to bring it up, and if that doesn't work with some rapidity get it tested in case you have a more serious issue.

Greens will bring your iron up. Taking your iron sources with nutritional or supplemental vitamin C helps. Cooking in cast iron also helps. Getting a little blackstrap molasses helps a lot (I mix it into chili, it gives it a nice smoky taste.) At least until you get the diet issue straightened out, a good supplement is helpful- a lot of women I know swear by floradix iron and herbs. Try to avoid prescription iron if you can, it's seriously constipating and often causes upset stomach and nausea as well, not to mention it tastes horrible on the way down.

Oh, and cut back your dairy consumption if that's any significant factor in your diet- often that alone will clear up the problem because dairy is very irritating and often causes small bleeds in the intestine that play hell with iron levels.

[ncabot22]

15. Thanks, LeftyMom!

I appreciate the advice. I do eat a lot of dairy...I am a cheese addict.

[LeftyMom]

16. NO problem.

I really do encourage my fellow DUers to ask me if they have any sort of question on going veg/veg nutrition/raising kids veg etc. If I don't know the answer I can definitely find it for any of you and I'm happy to do so.

[emmajane67]

9. It's fairly easy once you decide it's what you want.

I never 'backslid' or craved meat really. I wanted to be a vege when I was 11 but was informed by my Father I should wait until I was doing my own cooking. So about 16 I stopped eating meat. The first couple of years I was a terrible vege. Just started living alone, couldn't cook, no protein suppliments, lots of bread and cheese and actually put on weight and was quite unhealthy.

Since then it's been much easier. When living with my partner I was not such a good vege (again too much bread and cheese) but am back to pretty much vegan and wheat free and feeling good for it.

You need to get a bit of a taste for 'ethnic' foods, mexican, thai, japanese, vietnamese, italian when eating out. I always steer people towards these sorts of places, nothing worse than getting the 'token vege pasta dish' in a more normal restaurant. Also fine dining is bad news, you can get a chef to do something for you but often they throw a bit of a tantrum. Other than that you'll be fine. Ask questions about the menu.

There are loads of great recipes on the net. You can search the sort of thing you want followed by vege recipe and find a vege version of most things online. Make sure you've LOADS of spices and sauces in the house, grains, beans, tins of things, then on a week to week basis you'll just need to stock up on veges and dairy (if you're going lacto-ovo) and the odd specialty item.

Do be careful of cheese, there is a temptation to eat a whole lot of it when giving up meat and for a while that's cool, to get you through the transition, but just keep an eye on your intake.

Don't force yourself into tofu if you're not into it. It might take a while to appreciate. Perhaps try it out at a chinese or thai restaurant first and go from there if you like it. Meat substitutes are actually not that good for you, compared to meat they are, but they are highly processed, you're better off with beans and the like on a regular basis with meat substitutes occaissionaly.

Re: the distinction between seafood and red/white meat, on matters of survival, yes I distinguish. When backpacking for several months in a country with NO options for veges I began to CRAVE protein and ended up eating some fish on occaission, not ideal but there comes a point where you listen to your body first.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, you could certainly make some chnages, you don't need to go the whole hog in one go, do what you are comfortable with.

[SeattleGirl]

10. I have a question to add.....

Does becoming vegatarian or vegan help with weight control?

My daughter is mostly vegatarian now, and has been losing weight. Part of it is due to increasing her exercising, which I know can help many people, regardless of whether they are vegan, vegetarian, for carnivores.

I don't eat a lot of meat of any type, but I wonder if it might help me to switch to vegatarianism. I'm not ready to be a vegan, I know for certain.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Robeson]

11. Yes, it can help with losing weight. Of course, exercise is always a good...

...thing, too. There is no magic bullet to losing weight, without exercise. The best thing about going to a veggie diet, is the massive reduction in cholesterol and sat fat that will occur. I'm not going to go into the ethical aspects of not eating animals, because I don't want to start a flame war, but that is something that is motivational to me, in addition.

[SeattleGirl]

12. Thanks, Robeson

And I agree -- exercise is a big key in losing weight, regardless of what one's food preferences are.

I'll probably check with my nutritionist while making the transition, just to make sure I'm on the right track.

[emmajane67]

13. It can help.

But only if you do it right. Like any diet.

Lots of 'real food' grains, beans, veges etc will help any diet, combined with lots of excersize.

I am currently going basically vegan and wheat free and going to the gym loads and am losing weight quickly and noticing a big change in my body shape.

[I Have A Dream]

14. I'm a vegetarian, SG, and I haven't found that it helps with weight control for me.

I don't eat much cheese, but I do have a weakness for sweets, which being a vegetarian doesn't banish from my diet.

I exercise ever weekday, and I still have to watch what I eat so that I don't gain weight.

You look naturually slender to me, so it might work differently for you.

(...or as the diet commercials state, your results may vary. :))

[LeftyMom]

17. I lost quite a bit of weight when I went veg.

40 something pounds in a year. That's really not normal though, I was pretty f'n fat and I went from a lot of shitty processed foods to mostly eating from scratch. Once I figured out where all the good vegan junk food was hiding, I put a few pounds back on and stayed there ever since.

In general vegans (and to a lesser extent vegetarians) tend to closer to height/weight proportionate than omnis, but there are certainly fat vegetarians and vegans so while going veg often helps it's not a panacea by any means.