Sorry to be serious for a moment...but I've been thinking about Iran and well..

[Danger Mouse]

I like you guys, and I feel better about sharing this with y'all than I am in GD, though I've started a few threads in there but...
I'm worried about it. Really worried.
I feel like no matter what we do, it's inevitable, that Bush will attack Iran, and lots more people, especially our soldiers and innocent Iranian civilians, are going to be killed, and for absolutely no reason.
I feel that the Dems won't so much as lift a finger to stop him.
I feel completely hopeless. Will SOMEONE tell me I'm crazy, and that it's not going to happen?

[cwydro]

1. I agree with just about everything you said

and I am really disappointed in the Dems lately. A NON-binding resolution??? WTF?? But this will probably get moved to GD.

[Danger Mouse]

2. I hope not.

Cause I wanted to hear from you guys about it.
Not the GD trogs.
That's why I posted it here, among the people on DU I love most.

[Danger Mouse]

3. They say pretty things to get elected, but they're just as spineless as they always were.

Does anyone have any fire in their belly left?

[texanwitch]

5. Spineless is right.

Maybe we should send the Democrats in Congress paper spines, to show them what one looks like.

They could stop this mess tomorrow if they only wanted to.

Did ya'll see the picture of the young Marine that was burned so badly.

What a waste of a young life.

[Danger Mouse]

13. They're so afraid of OFFENDING someone that they won't show the strength that we

REALLY need to end this nightmare.
When the biggest threat they can come up with is a NON-BINDING resolution, it's so pathetic I could laugh.
Bush is doing whatever he wants, while figuratively giving the middle finger to the Dem congressional majority.
They have the power, but they lack the will...and I just can't understand why.
I thought they cared, cared like we do, about what happens to the innocent people in Iran.
I thought it mattered to them.
If it does, they have a funny way of showing it.
Dennis Kucinich has been the only Congressman as far as I know that has seriously discussed impeachment as a viable option. For the love of GOD, Dennis, start the ball rolling. Don't wait any longer!
Someone...
anyone...

[texanwitch]

18. I really think the Democrats in Congress are waiting for Bush to attack Iran

and then they start to impeach him.

It will be to late by then.

It is now or never time.

[Danger Mouse]

20. Yeah, closing the barn door after the horse has escaped, certainly.

The idea is to PREVENT him from doing it.

[Oeditpus Rex]

4. When he asks for the money

I don't think Congress will give it to him.

'Course, he's probably got a signing statement stuffed in his back pocket, next to the hipflask, that says he doesn't need their authorization.

[Danger Mouse]

17. Where would we get the money from anyway? It's all in Iraq.

God, what a mess he's made of this country.

[Oeditpus Rex]

19. What's a deficit to the Republics?

They'd just borrow it. Our grandkids can pay it off. :eyes:

[texanwitch]

21. We will just print more money and sell more t-bills to China.

This is not looking good.

[Danger Mouse]

30. Ah, the unabashedness of pure evil.

How sickening it must be...

[Blue-Jay]

6. I'm having similar misgivings.

I had hoped that with a Democratic majority in the congress that the next step in the PNAC plan would be abandoned, but it looks like the same old saber-rattling is happening again to set the stage for an action against Iran. It's even worse that the administration has no plans for reelection. They don't care about approval anymore. If they want to attack Iran badly enough, they'll do, without fear of accountability I'm afraid.

[Danger Mouse]

10. Yeah, the scary thing is they just don't care about political futures and ambitions.

They just want war, death, and blood.
Don't the Dems GET that? It's not about your political careers...it's about much more than that!

[Blue-Jay]

26. Sadly, they don't "get it".

That's why IWR was so successful. The leaches were too afraid to be called unpatriotic with an election looming, so they caved. Sure, some of the Democrats have played the "If I knew then what I know now" card, but I ain't buying it. They knew it was bullshit, but they were too afraid of losing an election after we were attacked.

[Danger Mouse]

29. Hopefully now they realize that excuses and half-measures won't protect them anymore.

Hopefully.

[Shell Beau]

7. I hope and feel like we won't attack Iran.

I really think it will nipped in the bud before it gets to that. I do have faith in our dems!!

[Danger Mouse]

8. Thank you for saying that.

Please share some of that hope with me, because I've lost most of mine!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. My dear Elrond Hubbard.......

I feel as you do.......

I see them cherry-picking the evidence for war, and it makes me so angry.

And I'm afraid that we won't be able to stop him......even if we try.

It is very upsetting.

I hope that you and I are both as wrong as we can be.... :hug:

[Danger Mouse]

11. I certainly hope we are wrong. I would never be happier to be wrong.

:hug:
This is a sad, sad state of affairs for what was once our great nation, but has now been shamelessly raped by the sleaziest man on two legs.

[TOhioLiberal]

12. He's already proved...

...that what Buh wants Buh gets. I think the Dems will try to stop him but he'll get what he wants. He always gets what he wants. Very dark days are ahead. How long before the UN sanctions us?

[Danger Mouse]

15. My fear is that it won't just be the U.S. and Iran...that someone...maybe Russia...

will finally get disgusted with the U.S. and intervene.
If Bush invades Iran, the harm that it will do to our country will be incalcuable.
The man is either evil or insane, or a combination of both.

[haf216]

14. As much Bush may want to attack Iran,

I don't think we have the soldiers to do it. He would have to pull them out of Iraq. I wish i could believe that the Dems are going to keep up out of war, but I really think it is the lack of troops.

[Danger Mouse]

16. That's what we have a draft for.

Can't get people to volunteer to become body bags?
Make some conscripts instead!

[haf216]

22. I really don't think he can get the draft back.

I just don't even he has that kind of power.

[SeattleGirl]

25. The Republicans would never go for a draft (and many Dems

wouldn't either) because they know it would be political suicide.

But then again, it would sure stir up even more protests. When people wonder why there aren't the kinds of demonstrations there were in the 60's, especially on college campuses, it's because there was a draft then, but not now.

[Danger Mouse]

32. You kidding? All they need is to stage some sort of 'terror event' in the U.S.

and get people to rally around the flag, and then suddenly, they'll have their draft...they'll have anything they want...

[SeattleGirl]

34. You may be right, but I still have my doubts.

These guys are all about getting what they want, yes. But they are also about perpetrating the illusion that THEY are the good guys, so they would never do that.

[GenDem]

42. That is exactly what scares me.....

They need to keep the sheeples afraid of terra. What better way to get everyone back in lock step than an 'event' that they LIHOP or MIHOP? :tinfoilhat:

Right now, the American people do not have the stomach for another war. An 'event' would certainly change all that.

Their starting all of the usual rhetoric and saber rattling with Iran. The table is being set with the battleships moving into position. Any little incident along the border will be the catalyst.

Curiously, bush is not concerned with the Saudi involvement in the Sunni insurgency -- just Iran. Scary times ahead, I'm afraid.

:scared:

[Danger Mouse]

45. I know someone whose father was a diplomat in Saudi Arabia once upon a time...

(it was at least 30 years ago)...the woman was a girl at the time...she was attending a saudi school, and was forced to attend the execution of a woman had been involved in an affair with a diplomat.
execution by beheading.
incidentally, Saudia Arabia, our valued ally in the Middle East, is as brutal and oppressive as they come. but they're our friend!
sigh.

it mystifies me how malleable the minds of the masses tend to be. how'd you like my alliteration? was it treatin you good? :)
in any case...
Bush is shoving Iran, being the bully, saying 'whatchu gonna do about it?'
I pray to God that Iran, for the sake of its people as well as ours, is too smart to take the bait.
Unless they do, Bush would have to manufacture something.
The possibilities...they all make me want to :puke:

[SeattleGirl]

23. One of the problems is that in the Senate, we don't have enough

votes right now. The House is kicking ass, and even some Repukes crossed the aisle and voted with the Dems, but it's a lot more iffy in the Senate. Tim Johnson is still out, Lieberman has his nose so far up Bush's ass that he can't be counted on, so the Dems only have 49 votes there. I know there are some Republican senators like Warner who are not happy with what Bush wants to do, but I don't know how much they can be counted on to support the Dems. Too many of them are crying, whining, bitching, and lying about what the Dems want to do, because they are still pitching a fit at not being in power any more.

As far as the non-binding resolution, yeah, it seems weak-kneed (and it is, in many ways), but did you know that Nancy Pelosi said this was but a first step? Murtha and Pelosi have a great plan, that involves how any money Bush wants is used. They are not willing to rubber stamp his requests like the Republicans have done for the past 6 years.

I do understand your frustration, because I feel it too. While watching parts of the House debate on the resolution, I would sometimes want to yell at the TV: "Do you realize how many more of our troops are dying while you are talking? Do you realize how many more Iraqi citizens are dying while you are debating?" So yeah, I get frustrated.

But I will say this. At least the Dems are doing SOMETHING to try and change things.

If you, or anyone on this board, has a Republican Senator, I would urge you to call, write, email, etc., to let them know that things need to change, and that their lying and deceptive rhetoric is no longer working with the majority of Americans.

[Danger Mouse]

28. I just hope that they have a plan.

I have to put more faith in them.
I mean...they don't want Bush to invade Iran anymore than we do...so I must trust in them having a plant to stop it.

[SeattleGirl]

31. Let me see if I can find Murtha's plan, and I'll post it here. n/t

[SeattleGirl]

36. Oops, I was wrong. I was thinking about his plan to get us out

of Iraq. However, I think the same things can be applied to Bush trying to go into Iraq. Basically, Murtha's plam in part calls for accountability from the Bush administration in all things war-related. Again, Bush isn't going to get a rubber stamp any longer.

Here's an article on Murtha's plan:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/13/60minutes/main1208423.shtml

[dEMOK]

24. You're Not Crazy, This understood - I Don't Believe it Will Happen...

IMO Too many people in government and the press are well aware of exactly what you're speaking of.

Bush/Cheney (& the PNAC cabal) are lame ducks w/o Congressional backing. They will have to commit even more treason in order to bomb Iran -- and I don't think they have the balls dig themselves even deeper in the hole.

They've been self serving characters from the start. I trust that they'll serve themselves in the future by covering their own grand asses.

Peace

[Danger Mouse]

27. I hope...I truly hope...that you are right.

Thank you for your words.

[dEMOK]

37. You're Welcome...

I just don't see it happening. PNAC's grand plan failed with the weakest member of the "AXIS OF EVIL" (Iraq). N. Korea is now destitute & had no choice but to cave to international pressures.

Ironically, because of the (profoundly unnecessary) Iraq war -- Iran has emerged as a vibrant oil nation with no natural enemies.

As bitter of a pill this administration has to swallow -- Bush/Cheney must end up dealing with Iran diplomatically.

We don't have enough troops available to sustain a third war.

[gemdem]

33. Have to agree with you

The missus and I talk about this a lot. Iraq was intended to be a staging ground for Iran, but that hasn't going according to plan (go figure -- anyone who knew anything said it was a mistake before the word go). Now, to divert attention from that disaster, he'll put us into Iran -- probably in support of Israel who will fly bombers over to take out nuclear facilities.

It only gets uglier from there. China will look to step in -- as leader of the third world, and for OIL. The entire Muslim world will mobilize against US and the West. In effect, WWIII. That's where we've been for the last decade or so -- trying to avoid it, and Bush and his cabal are rushing us headlong into it. Why? Cuz, we're 'Merkins, dammit! Ain't ya'll proud?

[Danger Mouse]

35. LOL, yeah, the power of pride...

pride in arrogance, willful ignorance, and an inability to see anything but what we want to see, that's America!
there is only one thing that can stop bush from basically bringing about the apocalypse...
and that is the now democratically controlled congress...

[enigmatic]

38. I understand

I don't know what to tell you; I think W's going to do everything he can to go to war w/ Iran, trumped-up "attack" by Iran and all.

Just live your life, man. That's all you can do. Tell people you love that you love them; tell your friends how much you value yor friendship. Be aware of the little things that make you happy; once you take a good look around, you'll surprised how many there are.

Most of all, remember that you aren't alone, no matter how many try to make you think that you are. We're all a part of this, and the only we're going to have a chance is to stop screaming at each other and work together.

[SeattleGirl]

39. You are right, e. I was thinking today about something Mother Theresa

said, when she was invited to an anti-war rally. She said she would not participate, but if someone held a pro-peace rally, she would be there.

I am anti-war, but I am even more pro-peace. When Bush refuses to talk with the "enemy", I think it is a big mistake. And I hope that not only people in Congress, but Jane and Joe Everyperson will also insist on it.

[pat_k]

40. Perhaps not inevitable, but probable. The way to conquer the Dems impeachophobia. . .

1. Help the folks out here conquer their impeachophobia by challenging their rationalizations for inaction (you'll find plenty the the rationalizations, and ammo against them, in the responses to William Pitt's http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x218768">impeachophobic post). The naysayers in our own ranks are a big hurdle, but we can transform them into impeachment supporters in discussions like this one.


2. If you are up for a real challenge, find ways to challenge our leaders, face-to-face. Contradict their rationalizations. That means asking questions -- on the phone with staffers, or better yet, in person. (Find out who the local scheduler is and fax a request for a meeting to discuss. Bring a friend to muster mutual courage.)
   
   Ask them what are they afraid of. Get staffers to speak their baseless fears out loud. In their insular world, their assumptions aren't challenged. If they evade answering, say something like 'We're hearing from others that members think impeachment will somehow damage our chances in 2008, is that one of X's reasons? If so, we've got a problem. To the folks out here, that notion is the opposite of reality. . ." Ask them if Pelosi really wants to be blamed as the ONE person who had the power to stop WWIII but refused. Who 'cracked the whip" to stifle any move to impeach.
   
   You can target your own Rep, or staffers in Pelosi's office, or Hoyer's (leader) or Clyburn's (whip). Staffer names are listed on http://congress.org.
   
   

It is not hopeless. Trust that truth has a power of its own. It always wins in time. We can speed the process. The more of us out there chipping away at the rationalizations for inaction, the faster we'll see those rationalizations crumble and the truth shine though.

All we can do is what we can. Every action, no matter how small we may think it is, makes a difference. Even a single conversation can have incredible ripple effects we never see.

[applegrove]

41. It is upsetting. I agree.

[deadparrot]

43. I see things moving that way as well...

Another stupid, pointless war, and where are the money and troops going to come from?

I just keep thinking that, God forbid, there is a real threat out there somewhere, we'll never be able to address it because we've completely tied up in Iraq.

:cry:

[Danger Mouse]

47. You want to be really frightened? Listen to Putin's rhetoric attacking the U.S.

Think of Russia and China's economic ties to Iran, and how China has the largest military in the world, and is growing in technological might.
Think of how Russia is run by a (pretty much) dictator, and China is a totalitarian regime, who may wonder how secure they are when the U.S. is attacking whomever it pleases.
Think of how vulnerable the U.S. would be if we tried to fight Iran.
What would Russia and China do?
THAT is what frightens me the most.

[graywarrior]

44. They pull this shit because they know we are powerless.

As long as we continue to buy buy buy, they don't give a fuck. That's the bottom line.

We've got 2 more years of this fucking asshole and his "dementors" and if we think for one minute that congress is gonna give up their perks, their power or walk away from whomever they owe favors to, forget it.

We can march and protest and bitch & moan, but until we stop buying the shit we think we want, they will never ever ever do what the people want. We are SCREWN.

So, Iran will get hit. That's a given.

And Bush SUCKS.

[Danger Mouse]

49. This is what really sickens me...I had been trying to stay hopeful...

trying to ward off the cynicism that the reason that Congress isn't impeaching Bush is for cynical political reasons.
But unfortunately, I'm starting to wonder.
I just...if I look around, and look at our country, and see all the stores, the chains, the strip malls, the megamalls, the fast food, the mass media, all that is out there for us to consume, consume, consume.
Bread and circuses.
And we're all so hypnotized...as long as American Idol or Lost is on TV...suddenly it's like all of this doesn't matter as much.
We are...insignificant. We are inconsequential.

We're being crushed under the bootheel of a corporate oligarchy that has no intentions of surrendering its strenglehold on our everyday lives.

[Critters2]

46. I'm afraid you're not crazy. I fear you're right.

Would that it were not so, but....

[Danger Mouse]

48. I hope that in the end, I turn out to be wrong.

[Danger Mouse]

50. Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread...

with their own concerns and reassurances.
I appreciate it.
:hi:

[uppityperson]

51. I hope not also, but am worried he will, so I think of these things

We are all going to die. Eventually. Each and every one of us. I do not have a strong belief in anything happening after death, so cannot look forward to anything. Humans may cause massive long lasting damage to the earth, beyond what they have already done. Humanity may become extinct. The Big Bang will reverse someday. Before that there will be pain and suffering and fear and love. The opposite of fear is love. To live inlove does not mean ignore dangerous things, but accept that we will all die and try to the live best we each can in our little lives until them. Will my child, my nephews and nieces and friends get drafted and suffer even if they don't for the bs that is going on now? Probably. How to live in love and not fear is difficult. How to give up control over much of what happens, yet still try to make a difference is difficult. Will the Dems stop Mrbushandhisevilminions? I don't know. May you live in interesting times is indeed a curse, and why the hell hasn't humanity evolved faster? How to live not in fear but love?

[chknltl]

52. You know with all the doom and gloom we have suffered here in DU

...and we suffered through quite a bit, there have been rays of hope for us to grasp onto as well.
The last election was a biggie but that was tempered with Madam Speakers words about impeachment NOT being on the table. My hopes were all but dashed right then and there...

but then

Over the last week there has been such strong debating going on over a message which the Democrats wanted to send the President.

repugs claimed the message did nothing more than demoralize our troops and embolden the terrorists!
repugs claimed it was the Democrats playing politics in order to poke (their), president in the eye.
repugs claimed that this non binding resolution was a waste of time.

But in the end the PEOPLES HOUSE passed this resolution with an overwhelming majority to include many republicans.

When it was over Speaker of The PEOPLES HOUSE Nancy Pelosi held a press conference.

It was pointed out at this press conference that WE THE PEOPLE, our military leaders, our soldiers, our allies, our enemies and most of the world knows that this war has been mismanaged.

It was further pointed out that regardless of our staying in or leaving Iraq, the people of Iraq will endure a civil war...one which they are embroiled in now and one our military can not and should not referee.

Afghanistan, (remember that place) was also discussed. Such things as "Well don't you suppose it is high time we went back to hunting down the real terrorists" and "What about going after osama bin laden for real this time"

Regaining our respect with the rest of the world was discussed. In the end, we are the last remaining superpower...this means that the world is counting on us to wield our resources RESPONSIBLY.

Another important item which came out of that news conference was the fact that the PEOPLES HOUSE is a branch of government CO-EQUAL with the Senate and the President. Now that it is no longer a rubber stamp house, Speaker Pelosi promised that it would be doing it's job, a job it has been negligent in for many years.

So this week a message which was sent to bush was also sent to WE THE PEOPLE:
"Last November you spoke out for specific changes. This week those who YOU voted into power are doing EXACTLY what you voted them in to do. (Hang in there!)"

Elrond Hubbard, despite my earlier concerns, after seeing Nancy Pelosi in action this week, I now have a great deal of faith in her. This is one VERY SMART and tough as nails lady. I strongly believe that she WON'T let george bush start another war. I think the bush reign of terror against the world is crumbling and almost over. If you wanted hope, watch the Speaker of the House. This is only just startin to get good!

If what I saw is any indication here my fellow DUers, we may be witnessing the rise to power of one great American patriot... call me nuts if you want but I am going to predict a woman will be our next President.....and it won't be Hillary.