"The devil invented evolution."

[idgiehkt]

Sigh....

:eyes:

It has wonderful consonance, but how can you even reason with that?

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

1. I'm sorry your penis is so small?

Hey, that retort makes just about as much if not more sense then their statement :)

[idgiehkt]

3. It's my dad, he'd probably sock me.

It just never ceases to amaze me because he is an incredibly intelligent (really) and talented man...a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

17. Lol, your right then, prolly shouldn't take my advice.

[Dangerously Amused]

62. lol!

Perfect!



:rofl:

[SPKrazy]

2. Only 6000 Years Ago Too!

and dinosaurs roamed with cavemen who were really more advanced than we think they were because they didn't evolve from apes they were created as they were, in skins and drawing on cave walls in the image of God :crazy:

and fighting saber tooth tigers and riding dinosaurs is what they did.

:shrug:

what's your point?

:rofl:

[idgiehkt]

4. or as Tina Fey said on SNL once

"Adam and Eve really did ride dinosaurs to church."

:eyes:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

22. You mean Jesus horses?

:rofl:

[idgiehkt]

31. Yes!!

That's right, I forgot that part!

:rofl:

[Left Is Write]

7. Of COURSE dinosaurs roamed with cavemen!

Haven't you ever seen the Flintstones?

[SPKrazy]

13. There Ya Go!!

I've seen the Flintstones

grew up with them

must be true

:shrug:

:rofl:

[Left Is Write]

5. Evolution is an invention?

[idgiehkt]

6. not only that

but a demonic one...


I want to put the little laughing guy here, but it seems too depressing being that it came from my own family member.

[Left Is Write]

35. Maybe the devil evolved invention instead.

:P

[Xipe Totec]

8. God created the devil n/t

[wildhorses]

10. you took my answer!!

:rofl:

[Xipe Totec]

63. Jinx!

There's nobody I would rather be in jinx with, than you!

:thumbsup:

[Shine]

9. Where do you even begin??

First of all, there is an assumption that the devil exists, which is debatable, in and of itself.

[Xipe Totec]

15. There's more evidence of the Sulfurous one

than of God himself.

The Tarahumara indians came to that conclusion a long time ago, when they looked at the world around them and decided it could not possibly be the work of a benevolent God.

I have to admit, they have a point...

[Shine]

18. I totally disagree. I think there's evidence of the divine everywhere.

it just depends on one's perspective, but that's just my opinion.

We create our own Heaven and Hell by how we live, here on planet earth. I don't buy into the idea of an personified evil, as manifest through the devil.

[Xipe Totec]

21. The devil is a symbol

not a person. It represents one side of the human equation.

It is a point on the moral compass.

[idgiehkt]

25. actually it represents male sexuality in this culture.

I mean, that's really what it's all about, despite how we are taught it represents some vague concept of 'evil'.

[Xipe Totec]

32. I don't know about that,

flattering though the thought may be...

:evilgrin:

"Petulant men that accuse,
women for no reason,
ignoring you are the season,
of the sins for which you blame."

- Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz de Asbaje y Ramírez (1648-1695)
(First poetess of Mexico, and First Feminist of the Americas)

[idgiehkt]

37. the horned God

that goes back to caveman times, that symbol of the cloven hooved animal is a very ancient representative of male sexuality and was holy in many, many cultures. It's just been watered down so much by christianity that we don't remember or recognize it's origins.

[Shine]

39. Yup,the Horned God, Pan, goes back to pagan times.

:hi:

[Xipe Totec]

44. El Fauno?

http://www.panslabyrinth.com/

[Shine]

46. Ya know, I still haven't seen that movie yet. I'd hoped to before the Oscars, but oh well

have you seen it? Is it any good? Full of juicy symbolism and all that? :shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

49. Wicked good, but...

be ready for some unflinching, brutal, violence.

And not from the magical characters, from the real ones.

[Shine]

51. Yeah, I'd heard that, too.

is it PG-13? My kids are 10 and 13. The 10 yr old has seen a lot of PG13 movies, so far. :D What can I say?

[Xipe Totec]

52. This is not a film for anyone under 18

Unless your children have lived outside the US, they will be totally unprepared to see this kind of violence.

I don't want to post any spoilers, but I have seen men die, in real life, in violent circumstance.


This film is not far from that kind of reality.

I would not take my 13 year old child to see it.

[Shine]

55. Hey, that's good enough for me. Thanks for your input.

:pals:

[Shine]

36. Hmmmm...I don't think it's necessarily all about male sexuality

although that's certainly one level of interpretation.

I think the Devil can also represent The Shadow aspect of ourselves.

In other words, that part of ourselves which is unconscious, and not "awake".

It's where addictions, the darker side of our psyche.

[idgiehkt]

41. I do

the only reason for having a symbol of evil is to brainwash people into believing there is something that needs to be simultaneously disowned and controlled. I'm not sure that religions that were not sex-hating had symbols of evil that were really sexual because they didn't have the need to control sexual behavior so much. I think a vague seed is planted with the supposedly ambiguous symbols so they can be applied to sexual behavior later on, but they have roots in cultures that were sexually open being conquered by sex-controlling cultures and their (the former) symbols of divinity became associated with and eventually directly symbolic of behavior the conquering culture sought to either rigidly control or stamp out completely.

[Shine]

42. Wow, that was quite a heady post. I had to read it several times to get it.

:D I'm tired now! heheh.

As I stated somewhere else on this thread, I simply think the devil represents The Shadow aspect of ourselves, which can certainly include unhealthy sexual relationships and addiction/control issues.

[idgiehkt]

45. to me that is like trusting the Bush administration

I believe the religious symbol of the devil that we have now was put there with quite sinister motives. Maybe there is some organizing influence it has on society to ward off the threat of (presumed) chaos if every male is picking up arms to fight every other male over all the fertile females, who knows. But I don't think it has always been this way, and I don't see it as being innocent and a natural evolution of concepts at all, particularly since, for example, the religious governments that put that symbol in place believed in execution of homosexuals and would have definitely called homosexuality an "unhealthy sexual relationship". We are coming out of a great period of darkness and that might make those symbols seem benign but I don't think they are or were ever intended to be.

[Shine]

50. Your post reminds me of something I've read before.

I'll have to do some research on who it was, cuz I can't remember in this exact moment...but it has something to do with how GWB is the manifestation of our collective dysfunction, as a country. And until we "wake up", we will have to deal with the consequences...or something like that. I'll dig it up and get back to you. Some of his analysis is quite compelling and some of it I don't agree with as much. I wish I could remember the guy's name off the top of my head, but I can't. I'm tired. Sorry.

:hug:

[Shine]

53. I found the thing I was thinking of! It didn't take me as long as I thought it would.

http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/31/levy.html

check this article out. I think you'll be fascinated. He makes some really interesting points.

Let me know what you think OK? :hi:

[Shine]

27. Now that I agree with. But some people really think the devil is real.

here's a bizarre personal story I'll share with you:
My mother is a staunch Catholic and totally buys into the idea of the devil trying to get our souls, which I don't agree with AT ALL. When I was a new mother, she presented my husband and I with a framed print of a man kneeling in prayer, at the bedside of his sleeping child...and in the backround, up in the clouds (literally) was the image of a demon and angel, locked in battle...as if they were fighting over the soul of this sleeping child. The father, praying protectively, was preventing that from happening. The title of the framed print was "Spiritual Warfare". Let me tell ya, that was some scary shit. :scared:

[Xipe Totec]

40. At a symbolic level their vision is true

Reality is a symbolic abstraction; a frame of reference we use to make sense of the world around us.

The scientific frame of reference has much to recommend it, but it is not the only one.

Magical realism is an artistic style that works by placing overlapping frames of reference on the same set of events, and making sense of them simultaneously.

The angel and daemon in battle represent the conflict between our basest instincts and our noblest ideals. The father kneeling in prayer represents commitment to established rituals and traditions; a bond of duty an obligation to protect the mother and child (the traditional male role).

This print is your mother's way of reminding your husband of his duty and responsibility to you.

I think it is touching, and shows that your mother loves you very much.

[stuntcat]

19. so much evidence now,

it's enough to make me just Hope there's a good force to balance it out.
If there isn't we'll self-destruct.

[Xipe Totec]

64. Everything is in balance

don't worry!

:hi:

[Blue-Jay]

11. Top Ten Myths About Evolution

(Dear mods/admins, I have permission from the author to C&P this)

1. Humans Evolved From Monkeys

Humans and great apes had a common ancestor about 5 million years ago Humans and monkeys had a common ancestor about 50 million years ago. Nowhere, except in the most illiterate anti-evolution literature, will you find a claim that humans evolved from monkeys.

2. It’s Only A Theory

“Theory” does not mean “hypothesis” or “guess” “Theory” means an organized set of related ideas. If you have a set of previously disconnected observations, and you come up with a possible explanation, you have an organized set of related ideas - a theory. A theory that hasn't been confirmed is a hypothesis. People commonly but incorrectly talk as if theories and hypotheses are the same thing. All hypotheses are theories, but all theories are not hypotheses.

* Number Theory is the branch of mathematics that deals with the properties of numbers. Theories don't get much more proven than this.
* Quantum Theory is the theory that describes how and why atomic particles behave as they do. It has allowed us to build computers and lasers. There's nothing "theoretical" about it.
* Stress Theory is what engineers use to build buildings, bridges, and keep the wings on airplanes. It works.
* Music Theory illustrates another use of the word "theory," to mean the underlying principles of a subject as opposed to actual practice. Music Theory is the set of accepted conventions used in European music. Other conventions are possible. That's why Asian music sounds so different from ours.
* The Phlogiston Theory was the notion that heat was a substance that reacted with materials to explain combustion. It's wrong. But it's still a theory. The term "theory" has nothing to do with whether the ideas in question are right or wrong.

3. If Nobody Saw It, We Can’t Be Sure It Happened

If you find your house trashed and your TV and stereo missing, will you hesitate to call the police because nobody saw it happen? Would you want the judge to dismiss the case just because you only had forensic evidence, but no witnesses?

4. Science Can’t Say Anything About Origins

Maybe not. But once the origin happens, everything after that is history. And historical evidence is preserved in the physical record.

5. Obsolete Concepts

Critics of evolution are fond of citing Piltdown Man or Nebraska Man (actually the tooth of a fossil pig erroneously claimed to be human). These both happened about 100 years ago. They can't cite any cases of false claims of ancient human fossils since then.

“Survival of the Fittest” was borrowed by Darwin from the economic writings of Herbert Spencer. What does “fittest” mean? It's not just a tautology, like saying "the winner of the Super Bowl is the team with the most points." There are objective features that make some creatures fitter than others. If you need to move fast in the water, there is one shape that works best and it's shared by squid, sharks, tuna, dolphins, ichthyosaurs, and nuclear submarines.

6. There Are No Intermediate Fossil Forms

This is a claim for which there is a monosyllabic definition: lie. Not error, which implies honest ignorance, but lie, because the people who make this claim are generally fully aware of the fossil record and simply choose to misrepresent it. Archaeopteryx, the earliest known fossil bird for a long time (some recent finds may be earlier) has a thoroughly reptilian skeleton with a bony tail, teeth, and four paws with jointed fingers (not merely the horny skin growths at the middle joint that a few modern birds have). And it has feathers. If that's not an intermediate, what is? More recently, evidence is accumulating that some dinosaurs had hair and feathers. If we'd lived 100 million years ago, we might have put birds, mammals and reptiles in the same class or at least put the divisions very differently from today. Therapsids are the intermediates between reptiles and mammals, crossopterygians and ichthyostegids are the intermediates between fish and amphibians, and so on.

7. Evolution Is Not Testable

Darwin suggested birds had evolved from reptiles in 1859; Archaeopteryx, a creature with a reptilian skeleton but feathers, was discovered in 1862.

Piltdown Man, the famous early fossil man hoax, actually vindicated evolution. The alleged fossil was controversial from the start precisely because it didn’t match evolutionary expectations. It had a modern human skull but an ancient apelike jaw (altered by someone who knew what he was doing), rather than a mix of features on both parts. It was like trying to fake a 1950 car by mixing parts from a 1980 car and a 1920 car. As more and more hominid fossils surfaced, Piltdown Man was increasingly seen as a side branch even if it did turn out to be genuine. It just didn't match the other finds.

8. Evolution Means Humans are Just Animals

Are you a vegetable or mineral? Humans have hair and nurse their young just like all other mammals. Traits like nurturing, cooperation and monogamy are often favored by evolution because they enhance survival of the species.

9. Evolution is Just Random

Is the following number sequence random: 592653589793238462643383279? It not only looks random: it is random. But lacking in meaning? No. These are the digits of pi beginning with the fourth decimal place.

Random does not mean “meaningless.” The scientific meaning of random is that something cannot be predicted with better accuracy than that predicted by statistics. The phenomenon is its own simplest description. Biological systems are far too complex to describe or predict mathematically. We have incomplete information, and significant events like climate change or asteroid impact are unpredictable.

10. Complexity Cannot Arise Naturally

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is often paraphrased as:

* ”Things always go from bad to worse”
* ”Disorder in the Universe is always increasing"

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is about entropy, which is defined as (Heat Absorbed in a process)/Temperature Entropy can decrease locally if it increases elsewhere. Intuitive notions of “disorder” are of no relevance whatsoever. Any discussion of the Second Law that does not specifically define entropy and show how it relates to evolution is worthless.

Chemical reactions are not random. For example, the atoms in a crystal of table salt are arranged as below, with sodium and chlorine atoms in a strictly alternating square array. If we take the simple-minded approach that we have a one-half probability of getting a sodium or chlorine atom in each spot, the chance of getting 100 atoms arranged as below is (1/2)100 or one in 1.26 x 1030. That's roughly one followed by 30 zeros. According to this reasoning, table salt is impossible.

Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl
Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na
Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl
Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na
Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl
Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na
Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl
Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na
Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl
Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na Cl Na

But of course the reasoning is ridiculous. The chances of getting that arrangement of atoms is close to 100 per cent.

And we know DNA can arise from simpler chemicals because it does so every time your cells divide. Every haircut you get is proof of it. The missing half of the DNA strand is assembled from molecules in the cell fluids.

"But when cells divide, there's a pattern already available" say some anti-evolutionists. Try this: go to the lumber yard and buy the materials for a tool shed. Then put a set of plans on top of the pile, and let me know when the materials spontaneously assemble. I can pour gasoline onto a garbage pile and the molecules in the garbage won't suddenly get the urge to develop into gasoline, even though there's enough carbon and hydrogen to do it. The pattern means nothing. DNA replicates because it can spontaneously self-assemble.

- Dr. Steven Dutch, Natural and Applied Sciences, University of Wisconsin - Green Bay



More:http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pscindx.htm

[idgiehkt]

14. I love this, thanks so much for posting it.

I love this line especially:

"This is a claim for which there is a monosyllabic definition: lie."

That is sig-line material, lol. :hi:

[Arugula Latte]

57. Great points. I have to pick a bone with one:

Basically, we HAVE observed evolution. The classic case is the peppered moth in England, which went from primarily light-colored wings to primarily dark-colored wings as the Industrial Revolution turned the trees they upon black with soot, making light-colored moths easier for birds to pick off and dark-colored ones more successful at blending in.

Their wings lightened up again as the pollution was controlled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

[Mojambo]

12. And then he put it in Miss Jones. n/t

[Dangerously Amused]

16. Was Dad saying that literally, or figuratively?

[idgiehkt]

23. literally

I'm sorry to say. He means it. :(

[Dangerously Amused]

38. "That's an interesting idea, Dad. Why do you think the devil invented evolution?"

What can he say? "To make people think God didn't create Adam and Eve."?


"Gee Dad, then why didn''t he just create Adam and Eve instead?"




That oughta make his head spin for a while. Heh.

[Oeditpus Rex]

47. 'Your honor, I put it to the court

that my client is innocent because the witness's head is spinning!"

[Dangerously Amused]

54. I *LOVE* it when that happens!

:bounce:

[Oeditpus Rex]

58. Courtroom cabaret!

[Dangerously Amused]

61. Or Cabernet, as the situation may require.

[Oeditpus Rex]

65. The honorable Johannes B. Riesling, presiding

Be seated.

[idgiehkt]

48. Sigh

You blew out some of my neurons with that one.

( she says as she lies dying by the side of the road).

That is brilliant.

:rofl:

It's taken me the better part of 45 minutes to get my head around it. Wow, I have missed you. :)

[Dangerously Amused]

59. When one has no facts, it's always better to rely on logic than bullshit.

Hey?

























But facts are still better.




Heh.






P.S. No worries about the brain cells, they will regenerate: http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s59648.htm

[Bassic]

20. Well, whoever said that

is probably too fucking stupid to be reasoned with in the first place, so it's nothing new.

[idgiehkt]

24. The thing is

he isn't stupid. He's very intelligent. And it breaks my heart. This is why I believe religioius indoctrination should be illegal for those under 18 years old.

[Bassic]

26. I agree.

I always get the feeling that America is shooting herself in the foot. I realize that not all Americans are religious nuts, but enough of them are to be a serious problems in the future. That's what I fear anyway.

[BarenakedLady]

28. It's true!

I saw him do it.

No really...why are you looking at me like that? :silly:

[idgiehkt]

30. what did he look like

did he have on tight fittin' jeans?

:rofl:

[BarenakedLady]

34. Yup

but he had to wear them backwards so his tail could come out the zipper.

:evilgrin:

[LostInAnomie]

29. So, is he admitting that evolution is real?

Or, just trying to stifle discussion by presenting unprovable/unfalsifiable assertions?

[idgiehkt]

33. I think it's more akin to

when the doctor taps your knee with the rubber mallet and it jerks...not much thought but into any of it.

[Deep13]

43. I guess we're worshipping the wrong god, then.

[Shine]

56. See post # 53. I posted in the wrong spot.

my bad. :crazy:

[guitar man]

60. I can debunk that

1984

Harley-Davidson unveils the 1340cc V²® Evolution® engine on five models including the all-new Softail®. The result of seven years of development, the Evolution engine produces more power at every speed, runs cooler, cleaner and is oil-tight.

So, it was Harley-Davidson that actually invented it...... :)



http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/H-D_History/history_1980s.jsp?HDCWPSession=QQ4hFpMTHnyBvJ0pRnGrvNy2QTCq7hQyqK1nMGQVt9WTkNJ9JGm3!-74508550!1457951189&locale=en_US