People who don't like children are a strange lot.

[Sequoia]

Some people don't want to have children and that's okay as they are a big responsibility and maybe have health or gene issues. But to tell others to Stop Breeding, calling children brats, who don't want to meet co-workers children, who bad mouth all kids...especially teens, think babies are stinky little criers, who think animals are more worthy...well..weird. Kind of disgusting to hear women talk about how they don't won't kids because it will mess up their bodies, their "personal time", boyfriends, paycheck, etc.

[MissB]

1. They have entire message boards

dedicated to being child free.

http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-rlchildless

[REP]

4. If You Want To Get Picky...

We have entire LIVES dedicated to being childfree (and there are other sites besides ivillage, which I believe is not cf-only).

[MissB]

14. The OP should've said something about "bitter" CF people

Because most CF people aren't bitter people who complain about brats, etc. (I have nothing against CF people at all - and though I've come across a few message boards where CF people are being absolute asses, I can't imagine that is typical of CFers.

[REP]

Ah - The "Bitter and Barren Childfree" - Another Stereotype

I'm "barren" because I underwent two voluntary and much-wanted sterilizations. Some might imagine my lack of interest in babies and children is bitterness, but it really is that I'm just. not. interested.

There is a lot of discontent with ill-bahnved children in public spaces, but the childfree have no longer cornered the market on this discontent.

[stuntcat]

105. the CF message board I'm on,

well it's not called "child-free". And no one on it has ever complained about children or about living their lives as parents or not. It's an environmental message board, focussing on each human taking control of their footprint on the Earth. No matter how environmentally conscious any of us are, the fact remains those of us in the west do way way more than our share of stinking up the world. And I know this is just begging for the "replacement" argument or the "our numbers will decline while theirs rise and then we'll be obsolute" view but neither of those addresses what we're really doing to the world, those arguments sound way more selfish than deciding to be child-free.
In a few days there'll be 6,700,000,000 of us, our population has more than doubled in the last 40 years. Nothing but a great disaster will have any negative effect on that number from now on.

[REP]

2. Why Do You Care?

Except for telling other people what to do with their bodies - I don't care if others have children or not - you've pretty much described me; I don't have children, don't want them and spend no time with them. Why does this bother you?

[Xipe Totec]

56. Does not bother me

On the contrary, I support choice precisely because it is the best solution for all concerned; those that want children, those that don't, and the children themselves.

It maximizes happiness.

[REP]

58. Well, Yeah - You Didn't Start A Thread About It!

Rational and reasonable positions often don't make good opening posts on a thread.

[zanne]

112. I don't have children, either.

It was a personal choice that I've never regretted. Over the years, I've heard comments from people like "Oh, you couldn't have children"? or "You like animals more than people". It's such crap. It's nobody's business but my own and I tell people that. I don't understand what gets parents so upset about people like me. What did I ever do to them?

[ohiosmith]

3. Except for "tell others to Stop Breeding" I guess I'm with the "strange lot".

[China_cat]

37. Count me in there, too.

There's nothing wrong with kids until their parents decide that I need to worship them, change my schedule to accommodate them and bring them to places where children really don't belong (r rated movies at midnight, the non-matinee opera and a 5 star restaurant that insists on reservations 3 months in advance come to mind)

[LostinVA]

107. BINGO BINGO BINGO

I wish I had put this in my post.

[Mad_Dem_X]

116. AMEN!

I am childfree and proud. I don't hate kids, but I don't want them around me all the time, either.

[Blue_Tires]

120. +1 more

[treestar]

5. I had a co-worker once who was upfront about it

She just did not like children.

I don't have any, but I still think they are adorable - the niece and nephews are my favorite people, and other kids remind me of them

[Lex]

6. The people I hear bad-mouth kids the most are the ones WITH kids.

Without a doubt that is my experience.

[Shine]

12. heh.

that's funny. I think I agree with you.
:D

[enigmatic]

73. I have to agree w/ this

It's been my experience, too.

[jilln]

7. "who think animals are more worthy"

That's the typical anti-animal claim, that people who like animals care about them more than about people. It is FALSE. Every animal activist I know is also involved with groups like the ACLU, Amnesty International and Food Not Bombs. Please stop making false claims to support your twisted views.

Why should I want to meet my coworkers' children? Why isn't it OK not to want children because it will take away personal time? It's OUR time. Worse would be to have children and then not GIVE them our personal time.

[REP]

13. ACLU and Alley Cat Allies Supporter Here...

And no, I don't want to meet anyone's children!

Another misconception: preferring not to spend time with children = mistreating children. How can I be mean to a kid if I'm never around them? And why do I think people who abuse children (and animals) should be beaten to death if I'm pro-mistreatment?

[WillParkinson]

20. I doubt REP could be mean to anyone!

Other than me, of course.

That said, I don't like kids. I don't know how to deal with them. I prefer more intellectual conversations with people and really just don't "get" kids.

My fur friends? Them I get. Give me food. Give me water. Love me. I'm happy.

[REP]

23. Still Mad That I Won't Ship Stewart To You?

And as for who's making judgments about what, it seems that more often than not, it's those who have children who are making the judgments on the childfree - we're bitter, we're selfish, we don't know what love is, we're immature, we're mean to children ... all the time ignoring that we do not wish to have children, and that people who do not wish to be parents make TERRIBLE parents!

I didn't "get " kids when I was one; it's not any better now. Cats I get and cats I got!

[jilln]

22. Yep, I hear that stuff all the time.

And where I work, people are allowed to bring their kids and animals. When the animals come, they are made to stay on leashes and around their people, and I can't remember a single incident. The kids, however, run free, riding trikes and pogo sticks and screaming and running into us and leaving their shoes and backpacks and crap all over the floor where it can get tripped over.

The main difference between kids and animals is when an animal misbehaves you can say something about it and people think it's OK. But if you say something about a kid misbehaving, you get comments like in this thread, that you care more about animals and why do you hate children, bla bla bla.

[Chan790]

36. Animal activist and three for three.

Active supporter and member of ACLU, Amnesty and Food Not Bombs. My dislike of children has nothing to do with my animal rights activism either...I find kids to be annoying, wasteful and disgusting. It's simple, if I had kids, I'd ship them off to prep boarding school like I was because I want nothing to do with anybody's kids, mine or otherwise. I think it's just better to not have them in the first place...for me.

[matcom]

8. been called strange before

i'm sure i'll be called it again :eyes:

[ohiosmith]

16. Dude. You're strange. Welcome to the club. Meetings the first Wednesday of every month

except holidays. BYOB.

[matcom]

17. no shit

do we get to play naked Twister too?

[ohiosmith]

18. Wesson oil edition.

[Shell Beau]

77. Not having children isn't why you are strange!! Duh!!!!

:P




Kidding aside, I want and am trying for children, but my word, we are not all meant to have them. And for those who don't want them, who gives a flying fuck? Please!!! This thread is almost borderline freakin' silly.

[GirlinContempt]

9. I kinda find it confusing when people say they "don't like children"

That would be like me saying I "don't like adults"
Pretty wide and varied groups.

[Lex]

10. I've mostly heard "I don't like other people's children"

from people.

[GirlinContempt]

15. Ahhh

I know a number of people who just say they "don't like children"
I've even asked a few how that works. I mean, I find all the kids in my life (godchildren, friends kids, etc) have different personalities and behaviours, just like grown ups. There are kids I don't like, same as adults. But I can't imagine not liking ALL kids. They aren't ALL the same. Just strikes me as odd.

[Katherine Brengle]

46. I often don't like other people's children (but I take them on a case

by case basis).

My own?

Absolutely in love with her lol.

[Kajsa]

132. Everyone here was a child at one time.

Children are the young version of people.
'People' as in fellow human beings.

So much for "caring about people".

Edit: I'm referring to people who don't
like children at all.

[Shine]

11. To each, their own. "Strange" is relative.

Personally, I'd much rather see somebody consciously choose NOT to have a child than to go into it halfway. There's certainly no moral imperative that women need to give birth, either. It's a huge commitment, no doubt about it.

I get what your point is, though. It's sad that some people are so judgmental about other peoples' kids and their respective decisions to have them...or not.

Another thing to keep in mind is that opinions change, with time. Given the right circumstance, people who "don't like children" and don't want to have them, might change their minds.

I didn't think I wanted to have kids until I hit my mid-late 20's. Now I can't imagine my life without them. :D

:hi:

[REP]

19. Please Don't Tell Us We'll Change Our Minds!

Maybe some do, but a lot of people who say they don't want children KNOW they don't want children. There are few things more annoying than having something so personal questioned. You'd be pissed - and rightly so - if someone asked if you if having children was such a good decision!

I'm 42 and twice sterilized and every now and then some dispshit still asks if I think I'll change my mind.

[Shine]

24. I'm NOT telling you or suggesting that you'll change your mind

I'm only saying that happens with some people, obviously. It happened with me. People change their minds all the time.

I'm sorry you've been so annoyed by others' insensitivity to your position, though. Wow, "twice sterilized"?! I'd say you're pretty damn serious about not wanting any kids! :D Good on ya, fine by me.

:hi:

[REP]

29. Sorry - To Clarify, I Meant The General "You" Not the You-You!

I didn't think YOU were telling people they'll change their minds - obviously, this is a pet peeve of mine (and many other CFers. but I'm the one who wrote the post!) and didn't make it clear enough that people in general should not question other's reproductive decisions. I made it even less clear when I did use you-you in my example of a similar rude and dumb-ass question!

Yup, I had two sterilizations - a tubal ligation and an endometrial ablation. Love 'em! I also have ovarian cysts - they're my natural back-up back-up method!

[Shine]

35. No offense taken, not to worry.

:hug:
Thanks for the clarification, though.

[GoneOffShore]

92. Have to second that.

Some of us know from the start.

Luckily I found someone who also knew from the start that she didn't want kids. And luckily now we've both reached that age where people no longer say, "Oh, you'll change your mind!"

At 59 and 47, I don't think so.

[zanne]

114. I knew I didn't want to have kids when I was a kid...

I'm older now, but I remember my younger days when people were telling me I'd change my mind, and that once I got pregnant(!) I'd be happy about it. I used to hate it when people looked at me like I was from Mars because I didn't choose to have kids.

[Sequoia]

21. The "strange" is the bitterness and contempt some have.

I waited forever to have kids becuase of varied reasons, financial responsibilty being one but guess what, when I had my child I was unemployed and flat broke! Ha! So I just go out in the cabbage patch and pop, I've got me a baby. And yes, I like animals bunches, it's sad that the animal shelters have so many that no one can adopt. And Katrina, when the people couldn't take their pets with them. So sad. Our government is mean and hateful towards animals, children and veterans.

[Shine]

26. We can see Beauty and Sadness wherever we look, it's true.

it just depends on what our perspective is.

:hug:

[Katherine Brengle]

47. I didn't want kids when I found out I was pregnant...

but I ended up very much wanting my daughter and have never regretted a thing.

But I don't think everyone changes their minds.

[Shine]

49. Some change their minds, some don't. No biggie.

isn't it great that we're all so different?

:D


:hi:

[Katherine Brengle]

53. In-deed!

:D

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. I don't want kids.

Frankly, I think the planet is overpopulated as it is, without having every woman add more children to the mix, particularly more than 2.

I don't think anybody who doesn't want children should have any.

[skygazer]

27. What possible difference does it make?

For the record, I like kids but if other people don't, that's their business. There are people who don't like cats, and people who don't like cities, and people who don't like bugs. Personally, I don't expect everyone in the world to love my "little darlings" and if my co-workers don't want to meet my kids - well, why would I be foisting my kids on my co-workers?

Why is it disgusting that some women don't want children because it affects their bodies and their lives? If they're self-aware enough to realize that it's an issue to them, perhaps they should be applauded for not bringing kids into their life. Having children DOES mess with your body, and your time, and you life, and your career. That's just a fact. Some people are willing to make those sacrifices because they want kids. Others aren't. How does that affect anyone else's life?

My daughter is 25 and knows full well that she doesn't want kids. I don't think she's "strange" or selfish - I think she's smart enough to know what she wants out of life. Human beings are not an endangered species - not everyone needs to have kids.

[REP]

33. Yay to You and Your Daughter!

Your daughter is very lucky to have a parent like you (I know - my mom shares your attitude). :thumbsup: to you and your daughter.

[Arugula Latte]

28. I agree with people who find the sweeping dismissal of all children strange.

It's not uncommon for people on DU to heap scorn on an entire group of people, kids, whereas if you replaced the word kids with "women" or "blacks" or "Muslims" or what-have-you there would be a shit storm.

Yes, some children are annoying and not very likable. So are some adults.

Some children are fabulous and funny and intelligent and entertaining and mostly well-behaved. I'd put my own kids in that category, in my own unbiased judgment. ;)

However, parenthood has been the most transforming experience of my life. It's hard to explain to someone who doesn't have children what it can do to your perception of life and the world and children. The only way to understand it is to experience it, and many don't want to (many do want to but can't, but that's a different story). That puts up a divide, unfortunately.

We all know people who were child-averse and then stumbled into parenthood and did 180s on the subject.

As for animals, well, I'm a blithering fool when it comes to being enamored with my kitties and other animals ... :loveya:

[WI_DEM]

30. I love kids, but I honestly don't want any of my own

but what others do is fine with me.

[izzybeans]

31. i didn't want kids but now i have one, and I love him.

I also plan on taking him out to an upscale restaurant in the '"I'm not really a yuppie' oh yes, yes you are a yuppie" part of town. Then afterwards, I'm thinking we may go to a movie. We're going to spill popcorn and soft drinks all over your shoes. Neener Neener Neener!!! perhaps I'll get up in the middle of the movie, leaving him there, so I can buy him some Goobers.

And then...It's off to the art Museum.

It'll be a glorifying hour of witness. It always is. And tonight won't be any different. I'll run into that person. I'm sure of it.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Oh this ain't gonna turn out well.

[REP]

34. I'm Surprised and Pleased at How CF-Positive It's Been So Far

Yes, there have been some ugly stereotypes brought out, but there have been far more reasonable and rational posts in support of the CF.

[Sequoia]

39. Yeah, I should've know I'd open a can of worms.

Just because you don't want kids doesn't mean you hate them.

[matcom]

38. I just don't like people's children ruining my dinner at the Olive Garden

with their breast-feeding drool getting all over my open pack of cigarettes

:eyes:

[Sequoia]

40. I thought Olive Garden was banned at DU!

[ohiosmith]

42. Not true. That's where The Strange Lot Benevolent Association meets the first

Wednesday of every month.

[matcom]

43. UNLIMITED BREAD STICKS!!

:bounce:

[ohiosmith]

48. Breastfeeding mothers and bread sticks. It just doesn't get any better.

[matcom]

50. dude. you should SEE the boner I have right now

:wow:

[ohiosmith]

52. Naked Twister anyone?

[matcom]

54. I have messy underpants now

[ohiosmith]

57. Fucking bread sticks. Does it every time.

[matcom]

59. good thing the salad is unlimited

throw on some crutons for crunch cause the lettuce might be kind of soggy right now

[redwitch]

66. dude! YOU ARE DISGUSTING!!!!

:-) SEX THREAD!!!!! WITH BREADSTICKS!!!!

[matcom]

69. WHY do you hate BREASTFEEDING?????111

x(

[redwitch]

71. I'm totally cool with breastfeeding. In public even.

I was referring to the soggy lettuce.

[matcom]

72. 'soggy'???

i call it 'over-dressed'

*spunky*

[redwitch]

75. LOL

As I said earlier, YOU ARE DISGUSTING! It's OK though, I'm used to it, hubby is pretty disgusting too. :P

[GoneOffShore]

94. Can I show up if I don't eat?

Or can I bring my own food?

[Sequoia]

134. I won't even begin to imangine what that is!

[Deja Q]

41. It takes all type to make up this world...

That sums up any number of arguments and facets to this diamond we call life.

Apart from folks known as 'adult children'...

[Shine]

51. I like that: "this diamond we call life."

very nice, HypnoToad. :hug: :loveya:

[Katherine Brengle]

44. I have mixed feelings... It does disgust me when someone clearly despises

all children. But I don't judge a woman for not wanting children, no matter the reason. And frankly, if a woman's abs are that much more important to her, she's probably better off not having kids (although most of the women I know with six-packs have children).

I think women have every right to value their personal time, relationships, bodies, whatever over having children if that is what they choose. I've decided not to have any MORE children for all of these reasons and more.

[Madspirit]

68. I agree!

I don't understand people who don't like kids but people who don't want them certainly should not have them nor should they feel pressure because they don't want them. If more people who really don't like kids, didn't have them, there would be much less child abuse.

Kids themselves are much like any other individual. Some are cool; some are not. How can anyone lump them all in one category.
Lee

[lukasahero]

82. Treading on sensitive ground here

It sounds like you are suggesting people who don't want kids would be child abusers if they had them. My experience is that people who don't want kids are mature enough to know what they want and child abusers are people who aren't self-aware enough to know that they shouldn't have them....

[Madspirit]

84. I meant what you said better...

I meant what you said. I just know a lot of women who have abused their children who should never have had them and who only had them because there was pressure.
Sorry I didn't express it well.
Lee

[lukasahero]

87. No worries

And I fully agree with that assessment - I wish some people wouldn't have had kids. I just get kind of touchy when it comes to that kind of talk because I have had people tell me that people who don't want kids shouldn't have them because they'd just abuse them. I can't tell you how much that hurts me. (Especially when I've stepped into situations to protect children from their abusive parents at my own risk. I hate child abuse and won't stand by and let it happen, let alone be responsible for committing it.)

[lukasahero]

80. I don't know a single woman who doesn't want kids because

she wants 6 pack abs. Most women I know are far more mature and self-actualized than that. We may run in different circles though....

[enigmatic]

93. Me either

I just told my wife that and she hasn't stopped laughing yet!:)

[AirmensMom]

109. My sister.

She didn't want to have kids because of what it would do to her body.

[Zavulon]

45. I don't want to meet co-workers' kids in the office, I'll tell you that.

The office is for work, and I'm sick of people trying to save on daycare by subjecting the rest of the office to their kids, even the rare well-behaved ones. Most are loud, distracting, and have no place in a place of business unless they're with their parents and the parents are customers.

Further, I don't want to sit next to kids on an airplane or at the table next to kids in an expensive restaurant, and I definitely want to distance myself from them in the theater. If that makes me part of a "strange lot," okay - but I'm not alone.

[Mad_Dem_X]

117. No, you are not alone

I agree with you, especially about expensive restaurants. If my husband and I are going out to a nice place that costs a bit, I don't want to spend the entire time listening to little kids acting up and their parents yelling at them (or worse, completely ignoring them).

[alarimer]

122. I agree with you there

I don't have that problem in my office though.

As for the movies, I have seen very small children (3-4 years in old) at some very inappropriate movies, like that one with Tom Hanks as a gangster. I can't remember the title but there was a lot of violence.

The problem I have with kids is not with the kids themselves but with their parents who let them run wild in grocery stores, theaters, restaurants etc.

[Radical Activist]

55. I only knew one guy

who hated kids to the point of being obviously irritated and hostile to them. I thought it was a pretty ugly side of his personality at the time, but I understand his viewpoint a little better now.

I don't mind kids but over time I find myself less interested in having them and even less interested in hearing other people's' noisy kids around me.

[MsKandice01]

60. At one point, I could definitely relate to the Child Free type...

And then I got pregnant.

[Katherine Brengle]

61. That was me lol.

[Madspirit]

62. Animal Rights Activist AND Kid Lover

I am an animal activist AND a children's activist. I tend to be an activist for all too helpless to help themselves. I don't have any children but I love them. I never understand people who don't. Life is a continuum. What do those people think they started as?

Kids are great. My girlfriend and I do a lot of babysitting. We wish we had children but were out of the age range before the big lesbian baby boom...<g>...and there would have been little support for it, when we were in that age bracket.

Truthfully, when I hear someone say they don't like kids, I immediately...don't like them. I figure they are bitter, disgruntled, angry and mean.
Lee

[Madspirit]

64. I do have one additional thing to say...

The ones who simply say they don't want kids because it would mess with their personal time...that's a good thing. They recognize that they shouldn't have kids. I wish more people who shouldn't...wouldn't. I really hate child abuse and if more people who shouldn't have them didn't feel a need to have them because of societal pressures we would have less abuse.
Lee

[bleedingheart]

136. I will back you up on that one...I have nothing but respect for the person

who can recognize that they are not the parenting type.

That is a good thing.

[applegrove]

63. I love kids. Will never have any for many reasons. Anyone who tells

others not to breed are ridiculous and should be tarred and feathered.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

65. then there was the xmas vacation from hell

My BF and I went to see a high school friend of hers. Flew to their town. My college age child was home for xmas, and I decided to make reservations for her to go with us. These people were an older couple, and the husband had grown kids.

They informed me that my grown child was not welcome under any circumstances. The only answer they gave was that the husband had grown children who had acted like assholes in the past. I thought they were being narrowminded and they thought I was imposing upon them by assuming that it would be OK to bring my grown well mannered child.

So what happened was that I spent a cold Xmas wandering around the lonely downtown of this city we went to, with my college age child, while BF went by himself and drove out to their house and had a nice all-day visit. While I just got worn out, cold and depressed because my child was being rejected and they didn't even know what kind of a person she was. I still think they are nuts. I'm not going back to their city.

Then we flew to another city and went to see my elderly aunt and she screamed at me for opening a door to get some fresh air, when there was record snowfall where we were, and I cried for three hours and had that trapped feeling. I offered her $20 to help on her utility bill if she was that worried about it and it just made her madder. I don't understand people who explode like volcanoes.

[Madspirit]

67. I'm sorry that happened to you.

That's just a sad story. What mean people. I am sorry that happened to you.
Lee

[Manifestor_of_Light]

78. then we had a reunion last summar at the woman's house

This is BF's high school bunch that decided to get together each summer.
One afternoon she decided to have a white elephant party and provide the items.
It was the kind where, if you like somebody else's stuff, you can steal theirs and give them yours. I hate them, and they bring out the worst childish greed in people.

I got a concrete rabbit. I thought that was cool, because we've seen rabbits at our country place. Well, another woman in the group decided to steal it, and I burst into tears, and tried to hide it because I was ashamed.

Eventually I went into the house quietly and tried to hide. The hostess (the one who started this stupid game in the first place) thought I was being childish and wanted to get all the attention. Actually I wanted to be away from it, because I felt bad because I cried and it just came out of nowhere.

The people who I explained this to after it happened, I told them, that it was NOT about a stupid concrete rabbit. It was about the fact that anyone who thinks those white elephant parties are fun, where you can steal other peoples' gifts, has a weird idea of fun.

My BF was very disappointed that I don't get along with this woman. She blows up sometimes and then moves on, while if I get barked at then I will go hide and cry about it. This happened twice at this reunion, and she was part of it both times. My BF thought we should get along because we are both lawyers.

Didn't work that way. I ain't goin back to her house.

[Madspirit]

81. UGH!!

My girlfriend HAD to go to a White Elephant party because it was at her job. She also got the gift she really wanted taken from her. Who thought these idiot kinds of parties up?

Sorry again this happened. I would cry too and especially if someone blew up at me. She sounds like a really unpleasant person.
Lee

[Zookeeper]

100. "White Elephant party"

I encountered that for the first time about a year ago, at the home of one of my DH's employees. The theme of it seemed to be to bring joke gifts or really kitschy things that had been previously received as gifts. I didn't see any indication of ill-feelings and if anyone even appeared to be disappointed or shortchanged, someone else traded with them. It's not something I would go out of my way to do, but I suppose it's OK if it's basically a joke.

Giving people gifts and then encouraging them to steal from each other is REALLY tacky! (IMHO.)

[Maine-ah]

121. "White Elephant party"

hm, thats a "yankee swap". Usually done at xmas time. I hate those too, one year I went home with the gift I brought, which was fine by me. Friggin' ho of a SIL took the gift I had, and wanted.

as for the kids issue.....

I never wanted to have kids until my late 20's. By the time I was bout 31 I was really "itching" for them, and we had figured we couldn't have them, it had been 11 years at that point and we got a big surprise. I couldn't imagine our life without her now.

I do not like unruly children when it's not an appropriate setting, I don't like parents who won't control the children/situation.

Now for those that don't want/like kids, well whatever floats your boat. Just don't try to sink mine, ok?:hi:

[Sequoia]

137. I'm sorry you had to go through that. Grown up children and still...!

[stuntcat]

70. people who don't want them for those reasons listed

really should not have them.

I like children okay, they're sweet and interesting and being stinky is just life, I was stinky myself as a baby.
But I pity the children I see now. The younger the tike is, the blanker their look, the more years they have ahead of them. I'm glad every day that I'm 36, as scary as the next 50 years are looking to me at least I don't have 80+ years to watch.
I don't dis-respect (yet) people who are having babies. Not many people worry like I do or take life so seriously.
My child would be the Angel Of All Time, and would be so lucky and beautiful, and I would be as attentive and loving as any mom ever was,
and this is all why my baby does not belong in this world, or the world they'll see in 2090.

I'm telling this because I see what's assumed about people without children and I just want to tell one woman's honest unchanging view on this. This is the biggest issue of my life. It is For my child (Bella Cora) that I'm not giving birth to her.

[enigmatic]

74. I'm strange

I don't have any kid and don't want any.

[Burma Jones]

76. As a Father of Three......

I can see their point.......Kids are a huge sacrifice. Once you have Kids, you aren't the Star of your life anymore, and some people don't want that to happen. Me, I'm glad to be part of an ensemble cast.

[Zookeeper]

101. As a Mother of Three....

I appreciate the way you phrased it ("Once you have kids, you aren't the Star of your life anymore).

My explanation usually involves the word "narcissism," but I was avoiding posting that explanation in fear of getting totally flamed. (Yes, there are perfectly wonderful people who have chosen not to have children, but there are also a lot of self-absorbed, intolerant Yuppies.)

Let's just say that if you still haven't "gotten over yourself" after having kids, you never will.

[jilln]

126. That's another misconception

I understand what you're saying, but all childless people are not childless because they want to be "the star." Undoubtedly that's the reason for some, but for others it's precisely because they feel they can do more good in the world without that commitment - more time to volunteer, etc.

In fact, I see "activists" drop out all the time when they have kids. It's like they feel a responsibility to do good in the world until they have children, then they only have time for that. Understandable, but how is taking care of only your own family LESS selfish than wanting to help others who are unrelated to you?

[AlCzervik]

79. you know what it is really strange?

when the person who doesn't like children at all is actually your own father.

[Madspirit]

86. Yeah

I know that one personally.
Lee

[Withywindle]

83. I'm one of those

Some kids are OK as individuals once they're old enough to talk properly and show some personality - I try to take them on a case by case basis, just like adults. (Saying "I love children" doesn't make any more sense to me than saying "I love adults" - some are really cool, some are complete turds, most are somewhere in between).

But I really, really don't like babies. I can't stand the sound or the smell or the look of them. It's pretty visceral. (Pictures are OK. I don't mind when people show me pictures and I can fake-coo at a distance). I dislike them the same way my mother dislikes mice and snakes.

And yes, I know I was one once--but *Monty Python voice* "I got better!" All babies I see now will "get better" too. I'll wait. :D

[Madspirit]

85. I love babies

They crack me up. At least you are funny about it and not derisive. In fact, you're really funny...mice and snakes indeed.
Lee *who also has pet mice*

[Withywindle]

90. Thanks, I try!

I do know I'm the one with the Issues, not them. (Just don't put one next to me on a plane for six hours or anything). It's probably because I've had so little exposure to them in my life, they seem like these squishy-headed space alien things that give off awful noises and smells.

Totally cool with snakes and mice myself. I used to have pet rats. They're really smart--and you don't have to change diapers. :)

[Madspirit]

95. We have dogs, cats, mice and rats.......n/t

[jilln]

127. I don't like babies either.

And before people get all upset, "not liking" and "disliking" are two different things.

I simply have no interest in babies. When my friends and coworkers have them and show me the newborn's picture (which I am convinced is all really the same picture because they all look exactly alike) I say the appropriate things and pretend to be interested so as not to hurt their feelings... but I really have no interest at all except for in my close friends' kids. Once they show some personality I genuinely get to like some of them.

[entanglement]

88. That kind of thinking's taken Europe to sub-replacement birth rates

They're also extremely resistant to immigration, so they face a looming demographic crisis.

[GoneOffShore]

89. We're childless by choice

But, we have a godchild who we adore.

No, we never wanted kids, but if we had to take over raising our goddaughter we would, without question. And deal with the fact that she's four years old right now.

People make choices and sometimes it's difficult for those who don't have a choice or who buy into other choices like: the "parent trap" or the "non Parent trap" or the taking care of animals paradigm or the "no pets for me" paradigm or any other behaviorial pattern you could mention to actually see the other side.

Why is it "Kind of disgusting to hear women talk about how they don't won't kids because it will mess up their bodies, their "personal time", boyfriends, paycheck, etc."? Would you make them have kids that they don't want?

[Forkboy]

91. Kids are cool,it's the parents that suck

"Health or gene issues"

:eyes:

I think most parents have a child fetish and think their kids are/should be an extension of themselves and their beliefs.

Fuck those parents,and pity their children.

[Pool Hall Ace]

96. Like REP, my childfreedom is chalked up to a lack of interest

in being a parent.

I do prefer animals to children, but that was not a conscious decision; it is just the way God made me.

I wouldn't say I hate children. The vast majority of them just don't register on my radar. Usually I'm pretty good at ignoring them, but sometimes they make it difficult. Like when I walk my dog, and they run after me asking me what the dog's name is, and what kind is he, and does he bite. I used to actually answer them, but then I realized I was being questioned by the same kids every day, so I just started responding, "You shouldn't approach strangers."

Sometimes a parent is right there when the child is questioning me. You would think they would tell the child not to bother the nice lady, but no. :shrug:

Babies gross me out, but that really isn't anything for anyone to take personally. They're smelly and noisy, and I know it's not their fault. If someone tries to hand me a baby, I just tell them please don't, I'm too easily squicked. Most get it.

I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people to stop breeding. Some people encourage others to join the Quiverfull movement. It's no biggie.

[dysfunctional press]

97. well...now how am i supposed to get any sleep tonite?

oh yeah- i sleep just fine, because we chose not to have kids.

[Rabrrrrrr]

98. It's not weird. It's just different from how you think.

But to place such moral judgments on that thinking, as you have done? For shame.

You find it disgusting that a woman doesn't want to have a child?

Jesus.

[pitohui]

99. people who don't like children will save the planet

40 percent of the edible mass on the planet already feeds humans, if we are to have any wild life or wild plants at all in the next decades, we must support and encourage those "selfish" people who refuse to breed

they will be the ones to save the world

the alternative is to keep breeding and drastically reduce the population to sustainable levels by butchering people

it's that stark

god bless the woman who don't breed because it will mess up her body, may there be many many more of her

[GirlinContempt]

119. Population isn't the problem, overconsumption is

[Madspirit]

128. Two whole different issues

moved down

[Midlodemocrat]

133. And we're off.

Remember that when you need a doctor or an ambulance driver in your old age. :eyes:

[Zookeeper]

102. I'm totally fine with people choosing not to have children....

I don't think anyone is obliged to have a child. I don't think people are selfish because they choose not to have children.

But, I do know that SOME of my friends were left behind when I started having children because they just didn't get it. They were impatient with my sudden "lifestyle" limitations and I became impatient with, what I increasingly saw as, their narcissism. Those few friends were not people who volunteered in their communities, or were involved with kids as Aunt, Uncles, or Godparents. Children interferred with going out to upscale restaurants and having really cool "stuff." So, I didn't feel particularly tolerant of their intolerance.

Having children is the most profound thing that has ever happened to me. It made me "get over myself" which was quite a challenge. I hope that my children will be good citizens and an asset to the world, but on a selfish level, they have deepened and enriched my life more than I could have imagined. Some days are a really a struggle and two of my three kids have chronic health issues, but I still wouldn't change a thing.

[Spider Jerusalem]

103. People who feel compelled to reproduce because of some mindless hormonal urge are far stranger.

Most especially strange are the women who are unable to conceive who will, in some cases, spend many years and many thousands of dollars on trying to become pregnant. I view that as a far more twisted form of selfishness than choosing NOT to have children, personally.

[otherlander]

104. I don't want to have children.

Maybe I would if I had a martyr complex, but I don't.

[LostinVA]

106. Good grief, what a judgmental, off-base post

First, I have no children and never want any. I knew at 12 I didn't want to have kids.

People have a right to not have kids for any reason, and that includes: "...it will mess up their bodies, their "personal time," boyfriends, paycheck, etc." So frigging what? It's their life, their choice. Having children doesn't make you a better human, and not having them doesn't make you a worse human.

So, I guess it's okay to not have kids if you have health or gene issues (oh boy, or aren't responsible. Ummm... how about if you just don't want kids? That doesn't make you selfish or evil or whatnot. It's a lifestyle choice , a very valid one, and one that many of my friends and colleagues have made. So what? Gosh, how very judge mental.

Animals are more worthy? WTF? More worthy of WHAT? I have three cats, and the eldest one is indeed my "fur baby." I would do ANYTHING for her, and would probably do anything for the other ones. Why? Because they are members of my family. I would help a family remember before a stranger -- because my family members are "more worthy"? I don't even know what that means, but I would do something for a family member first, furry or not, because I love them, I know them, they are FAMILY.

I love my niece and nephew and are very close to them. I don't hate kids, I actually get along with them very well, and have worked with kids before. But, I do dislike some children very much, as well as some adults. So what? I don't have to like every single person in the world. Oh,a nd my niece and nephew are both teenagers. Hmmmm.....

I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

Get over your bigotry toward child free people. Because that's what this post is -- it's only partially about people who dislike kids. It's mainly about people who make the choice to live child free.

And, I know several people who had children even when they didn't want to. WHY did they have kids? Because their family and society told them to, while their hearts told them not to.

Jesus, what a judge mental, weird post.

[matcom]

111. ...

:applause:

[Robeson]

115. Couldn't have said it better myself. GREAT post LostinVA....

...and as you said regarding the OP, what a "weird post".

[seaglass]

108. If you choose to have children you are choosing a particular

way to live your life. If you have children Sequoia, as I do, you know that lifestyle has both its rewards and its drawbacks.

Society needs to get past the assumption that choosing to have children is the default position and anyone who doesn't choose to have children should somehow need to justify it.

I could picture my life both with and without children, married and not married. I can see the benefits of all. I am glad I made my choices but do not believe my choices are superior to someone else's.

The only thing I will agree with is people who express hatred of all children. If people who express that POV are serious, then I just can't comprehend it - it's very narrow-minded. I can understand hating some children (I guess) but not ALL.

[Bassic]

110. Although this is a rather difficult topic,

I tend to agree with you. I can't understand how you can not like children. It is entirely possible to despise certain, perticular children who can be assholes just like any adult, but all children? I don't get it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

113. As a parent I have to disagree...

People who don't like children are exactly like you and I, only they don't like children.

[usaftmo]

118. To me not liking children is different from

being uncomfortable with children. I'm the youngest in my family(2nd youngest is 7 years older than me), so I basically grew up without my siblings. I've always been a bit of a loner, and never spent any large amount of time with children.

The closest I've ever been to understanding children was the part of psychology when we studied child development.

I have a 7 year old son that I want to have a wonderful childhood, but my(then) wife left me when he was 6 months old...so I don't even know my own son from Adam. :(

Overall I'm torn on the issue. There is a difference between being uncomfortable with children and not liking them...but that difference gets blurry quickly.

Please don't consider this flamebait. Perhaps I'm focusing too much on the word "like" in the title of this thread.

[JitterbugPerfume]

123. it is a personal choice , and you are entitled to it

my children and grand children have been a never ending source of joy and pain to me.

HOWEVER,

out of control brats make me sometimes wish for mandatory birth control .


I alo love my kitty

[Deep13]

124. Yeah, I mean we are down to our last 7 billion people...

...so we should all get busy.

I don't like children. Calling me weird will not change that. I wish them well, but don't want them around. There is no particular reason for me to like them and you have advanced none. I make no apologies for my feelings.

[NMDemDist2]

125. yeah, well ... whatever

:shrug:

you enjoy yours and i'll keep my dogs

how's that?

:hide:

[Madspirit]

129. Two different issues

I think it's fine to not have children. I think it's great if that is what someone wants. I don't have any.

...but what does that have to do with liking the already existing ones or not liking the already existing ones.

I chose to not have kids. I still like kids. Two different issues.

I think people who choose not to have them are great. I think people who don't like kids are odd and offputting and usually more obnoxious than the kids they are trying to compete with for attention.
Lee

[El Fuego]

130. Kids are just vermin. And many grow up to be judgmental assholes.

And people who choose not to reproduce have to put up with those who constantly tell them they're not normal if they don't want screaming pukin demanding brats sucking up their lives.

[Midlodemocrat]

131. Dude. You were a kid once. And, I can definitely tell you mine aren't vermin.

But yes, they are judgmental. Towards bigots and republicans.

[El Fuego]

138. Yeah, but it's different today.

A lot of people have a low opinion of children and parenting because of the way kids are raised now. (Not all of course -- I'm sure yours are great.) But when I was a kid, parents didn't let children run amuck over everyone like they do now.

Nowadays, the parents will get a lawyer involved and sue if their little monarch doesn't get his way.

[Madspirit]

140. I hope you don't have any

Don't know why this came through three times. sorry

[Madspirit]

141. I hope you don't have any

Sorry this came through three times.

[Madspirit]

142. I hope you don't have any

You mean you don't like kids now days because it's not legal to abuse them as much as it used to be? Yeah, we really used to mind or we got belted with an open belt. Me...I prefer the new free-range, own-mind kids.
You are scary.

...and this is TWO issues. It's just dandy to not have kids. I DON'T. To say you don't like kids is no different than to say you don't like Blacks or Gays or Hispanics, etc. You are lumping a whole group of people together.

...and sorry you liked the old abusive days better.
Lee

[Midlodemocrat]

143. You are right, but don't you think that a lot of that is just media driven?

Most of my kids' friends are great kids. I honestly don't know any who would behave in a way in public that would necessitate getting a lawyer or calling the police.

Of course, I have seen kids in restaurants with those god awful heelie shoes and I'm always afraid one is going to knock down an elderly person, but most parents I associate with keep a close eye on their kids and are involved in their lives.

And, thanks for the nice words about my own kids. They are pretty great even though yesterday a lot of chores didn't get finished. :eyes:

[bleedingheart]

135. Actually the people I don't like are the folks I call the Haters

they are generally a miserable lot and Haters are the kind of folks who hate the elderly who hold them up in line, hate the music in a place or the temperature..etc....they are the kind of people who you give a gift to and they don't say thank you...they criticize it before they thank you..

However most folks who are childless by choice are not Haters...in fact I know a lot of childless folks who are actually really good with kids...but never wanted any for themselves.

The key thing is not to lump people in with one group or another...but a Hater...they aren't easy to spot right away...you have to be around them for a while to find out they are just miserable to the core. Hell they can even be funny and sociable..but they leave you with a feeling that you have been laughing for all the wrong reasons...and you need a shower.

[Bridget Burke]

139. What brought that on?

Were you recently offended?

People who don't like children & don't have them are not a problem. But there are others who don't like children--but had them anyway.

[Pithlet]

144. Locking

Do not post "flame bait" discussion topics. While there is no clear line regarding what constitutes flame bait, the moderators have the authority to shut down threads which they consider too rhetorically hot, too divisive, too extreme, or too inflammatory. Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion.