I was just told that a couple didn't want me officiating at their wedding

[Critters2]

(which they wanted to hold at my church), because they think I'm gay. So, they're going to do it somewhere else.

They clearly wanted me to clarify my sexuality for them, and I just said it shouldn't matter. So, they're looking for another venue.

I find myself kind of hurt by this. Do you think I should be?

[Karenca]

1. They are horrible people. . eom

[mentalsolstice]

2. I'm sorry!

And yes, your hurt is very real! :hug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

3. Fuck them.

That's their problem.

[Karenca]

4. Like Starbucks said 'It's their problem"

forget about them - they're horrible.

[fizzgig]

5. i would be hurt as well

had they originally told you that they wanted you to perform the ceremony?

i agree with you, it shouldn't make a difference

[Critters2]

6. Yeah, they had asked me to put it on my calendar weeks ago

Not sure what caused them to start thinking about my sexuality. My church is open and affirming and has a good number of glbt members. But that's never been a secret. Don't know why it became an issue.

[fizzgig]

14. that is messed up

:hug:

[Frogger]

7. Why should you care?

People should have enough faith and strength in their own identity to shrug off the opinions of others.

[Critters2]

9. Indeed I should. But sometimes I don't. nt

[flvegan]

8. Feeling "hurt" is subjective.

Do I think you should feel hurt? No. I don't think you should feel hurt by folks that would seek to hurt you out of purpose.

I'd feel hurt if I sold out, which is something you won't do.

So...

[Critters2]

I often tell my parishoners that it takes courage to do the right thing

and this is why...because it sometimes hurts to do the right thing. But one should do it anyway.

[flvegan]

25. Fuck homophobes

That's it, that's all. It's not about what's right, as that's subjective as well.

Any person making a judgement call based on another's sexuality...fuck 'em.

Four-lettered statements aside, I think that Christ Himself stopped judging a long time ago.

Maybe it's time that we Christians followed His example. I mean, to think about judging another...a church, Jesus with his sandals, long hair, unkempt self...no money...dark skinned...

[Critters2]

28. Sadly, it's past time. nt

[Redstone]

10. Is it OK for a minister to say "Go fuck yourselves?" If not, it should be.

Yes, it's OK for you to be hurt. It's even more OK for you to be angry.

You don't want bigoted assholes like that in your church anyway, do you? Jesus would NOT be happy if you did.

Redstone

[Critters2]

12. True enough!! Thanks, Redstone. nt

[Kajsa]

67. To hell with 'em.

They are bigots.

You have a right to be hurt AND angry.

[Robeson]

11. At this point, tell them you are a veggie, too, and just go ahead....

...and send them into neural-shock.

Seriously though, no I wouldn't be hurt. I'd be glad to not take part in their wedding, if that is their mind-set.

[Critters2]

13. LOL!!! Veggie!! That'd KILL 'em!! Thanks! nt

[Withywindle]

15. Ick, how petty and hateful.

I don't blame you for being hurt, but look on the bright side: you won't have to bless a pair of bigots.

[Critters2]

16. True that. Thanks. nt

[Redbear]

17. That is horrible.

But. It is their loss.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

18. being hurt when you are rejected for your sexuality is perfectly normal.

sorry it happened to you.:hug:

[Critters2]

19. Thanks, lioness. nt

[CaliforniaPeggy]

20. My dear mycritters2!

I am horrified that these people are behaving this way towards you...

And yes, your feelings are completely normal!

Good riddance to them......

You deserve better than that!

And they do not deserve you, not one little bit...:hug:

[Critters2]

22. Thanks so much, Calpeggy!! Your support means more than their approval any day! nt

[Lex]

21. No ceremonies for homophobes!

Seems like a good policy to implement anyway. :hi:

[Critters2]

23. Indeed it does. Worth thinking about. nt

[bullwinkle428]

24. You're in Iowa, too...right? Let me know where they live,

so I can track them down and give the the ass-kicking they so richly deserve!! That just pisses me off, though I know there's no shortage of phobes around here... :grr:

[Critters2]

26. I'm a native Iowan, in exile in Illinois. But close enough that you could hop

across the river, give 'em that ass-kicking, and be back in Iowa before they knew what hit 'em.

But that prolly wouldn't be the Christian thing to do. More's the pity.

[Critters2]

27. self-delete. Dupe, for some reason nt.

[Richard Steele]

29. They are assholes. Be glad you didn't find out in a worse way. nm

[wildhorses]

30. ----

:hug:

of course it hurt---now cry a little bit:cry: and dry your eyes:hug: and go forth tending to YOUR

flock...they obviously belong to someone else :evilgrin:

[u4ic]

31. I'm sorry, mycritters

Your feelings are certainly valid. I hope they will be short lived, for your sake - ignorant people such as those you described are not worth the energy. :hug:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

32. It was a horribly insulting thing to say...

To you and to all people who know what it is to love someone...gay, bi, and straight. I doubt their marriage will last long.

What business is your sexuality to them? What a pair of prying dimwits!

:hug::hug::hug:

[Kat45]

33. Yes you should be hurt, but you should be even more angry.

I got pissed off just reading about it.

[Critters2]

34. Thanks, everyone, for your support! I love DU! I'm heading to bed. nt

[Skittles]

35. oh, f*** those hateful bigots

they're a couple of assholes who were made for each other

[Neshanic]

36. Ugh! They actually came out and asked you that? Creeps.

[Flaxbee]

37. what a pair of jerks!

I'm sorry - yes, it is perfectly normal to feel hurt by this. But I wouldn't let it bug you too long - you're a good, kind person, and if they can't see that, it is their problem, not yours. And I don't see why your sexuality is any of their business, anyway! Sheesh!

[Random_Australian]

38. Would you trust Klansmen on what political party to vote for? Nope.

Would you take advice on scientific matters from a random nazi? Not for a crate of curried cow carcasses!

Would you care about what church the "oh-no-the-gays" gits go to? Same as previous answers, I say.

[JVS]

39. you have a right to be offended, but more importantly you have pastoral duties

Matthew 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

[Critters2]

55. They're not members of my church,

just a local couple needing a place to hold a wedding. So, I'm not their pastor, though I thought of the bride's father as a friend--we went to college together. I'll try to treat 'em a bit better than "pagans or tax collectors" should the occasion arise. But prolly not much better.

[JVS]

61. oh. I didn't realize that you would marry non-members

In my church at least 1/2 of the couple has to belong. Back home I remember an ELCA pastor refusing to marry a classmate of mine (he said that the couple was not ready for marriage) and her family was so angry they left the church.

[Critters2]

64. I will marry non-members under some conditions.

Mostly, they have to meet with me more than members would, because I need to get to know them; and the church charges more for use of the facilities than for members. And I have to officaite, or at least co-officiate at the wedding. They can't bring in someone else to do a wedding in our sanctuary. We're located in a historic district, and really have to fend off people who think of our sanctuary as a wedding chapel, ebcaue of its size and location.

But I've always done non-member weddings, if I felt like the couple was ready. Fact is, if I don't do it, someone else will. With me, at least they'll get some counseling beforehand.

[Wetzelbill]

40. the world is full of assholes

those happen to be two of them.

I would say your first inclination to be hurt is natural. You probably should be a little, it's a very human feeling. But stop and think about how awful it is that they think like that, and realize that you're too good for that treatment. In the end, don't let that get you down, those people aren't worth it. It's like a guy like Tom DeLay. You can't spend your life mad at a rat like that, because Tom DeLay will always be Tom DeLay. What you have to do is concentrate on who you are and what the good is in this world that you can accomplish. Those people will always be like that, and why be hurt because of a few hatemongers? Feel sorry for them if anything, but move on and keep making the world a happier better place from your end of things. :)

[FloridaJudy]

41. "Consider the source"

That's what my mother always said when she found me crying because someone had insulted me. It didn't comfort me much at the time, but the older I get the more I start to see her point.

It sounds like this couple doesn't belong in your church, if it welcomes GLBT's. I'm sure all three of you (not to mention your parishioners!) will be a lot happier if they amble off and find another place that tolerates this sort of homophobic nonsense.

Also console yourself that these jerks have just bought themselves a major headache. Do you know how much trouble it is to shift the venue of a wedding at the last moment? Actually I don't (my family tends to go for the barefoot-sunrise-beach thing with Kahlil Gibran), but I've watched several friends plan weddings. Believe me, Bridezilla is probably tearing her hair out right now.

[LostinVA]

42. You belong to a very liberal, gay friendly denomination

Which makes this very puzzling to em.

People are sos strange.

[Critters2]

56. Yeah, people assume we're like other churches, on issues such as this,

and are often surprised when they learn the awful truth!! :)

[Connonym]

43. That's awful

I'm sorry that they hurt you. Assholes.

[MissMillie]

44. Well, I can see how you'd be hurt

But let me say this... I would want my wedding officiated by someone who valued all unions between two consenting adults. I'm sure no one here would fault me for that.

When it comes to weddings, people want what they want.

It absolutely sucks that they want to discriminate.

Rather than feel hurt, choose to feel sorry for them and their petty prejudices.

[Zuiderelle]

45. Instead of being hurt, I think you should take it as a sign that there are people who need education

about homosexuality. I think you should confront them and ask them why they think you're gay, and why that would matter to them? Did they actually say that they thought you were gay? If not, how did you come to that conclusion?

I'm not clear on why you would be hurt, unless you were actually gay, then I would understand you being hurt.

[Critters2]

58. I'm learning that a lot of people in town assume I'm a lesbian,

becaue I'm not married and I'm the pastor of "the gay church". Truth be told, I describe myself as bi, when I have to do such describing. I've had relationships with women and men, and am kind of waaiting to see which way the next one takes me. For now, I'm damn near celibate (though not technically celibate, thanks to Buzz, my electric boyfriend).

So, someone prolly told 'em I'm gay. And then I wouldn't tell 'em I'm not. If I had been honest, and said I've been known to bat from both sides of the plate, it would've had the same effect.

[Zuiderelle]

68. I had no idea you identified as bi. I am curious though why they would be going to a "gay church"

if they don't want a gay person officiating? What makes your church gay anyway? Is it the only one in town that welcomes gay parishioners? I'm really confused why a homophobic straight couple would even WANT to get married at "the gay church."

[prolesunited]

71. I'd be interested to hear the answer to this question as well.

Why did they even show up in the first place?

[Critters2]

72. Yeah, we're the only church in town that welcomes glbt people

They wanted to be married here because it's a big sanctuary in a historic part of town. For some odd reason, brides like to get their pics taken with the Lincoln statue across the street. I wouldn't, but hey!

I'm guessing someone put a bug in their ear about our Open and Affirming stance, and they freaked. I don't fully understand it. Their wedding license is valid once I sign it, regardless of whom I'm fantasizing about later that night in the privacy of the parsonage.

[Zuiderelle]

74. Well, fuck them. Save the sanctuary for real Christians.

Those who don't judge others.

[supernova]

46. Mycritters I'm sorry that happened

to you. What a nerve this couple has! It might not even be them. It's possible they were getting pressure from other family members for a more "traditional" type church/venue. People get wound really tightly about weddings.


edit: Because original post, I thought I was in another thread. :crazy:

[LostinVA]

48. ???

I think you meant to post this in another thread!

It's Monday, eh?

[supernova]

50. Yeppers

:dunce:

[LostinVA]

53. Hehehehhehe -- ah, Monday mornings!

[Rabrrrrrr]

49. LOL! Talk about your non sequitors.

Now I'm really curious as to what thread you meant to post in... :rofl:

:hi:

[supernova]

51. I'm a dork

without enough coffee! :P

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. Good - one less diva bride's nonsensical assholery to deal with.

I'm sorry they had to do so in a hurtful way to you, though; but let's face it - it says nothing about you, and says a whole lot about their inability to act like human beings.

[seemunkee]

52. The opinions of small minded people shouldn't hurt.

Don't give them that power, they are insignificant and what they think is beneath you.

[Hand]

54. "Looking for another venue," eh?

Well, I know one in Topeka, Kansas that they'd probably like. The pastor's name is Fred Phelps... :evilgrin:

[crim son]

57. I'd be hurt and I'd be pissed off.

In fact I'm hurt and pissed off just reading about your experience. :hug: goddamn, people can be despicable assholes.

[Critters2]

59. I know. In my faith tradition, we have this saying:"We live in a fallen world",

after which it is obligatory to shake one's head in disgust. Which is pretty much where I am now.

[crim son]

60. What does your faith say about encountering

difficult situations like this one? Are you supposed to "learn" from it, or "grow" or wipe the dust from your shoes and walk away? I'm seriously wondering because I'm in a similar state of mind and it paralyzes me.

[Critters2]

62. Well, my inclination is to shake the dust off my feet,

walk away from this particular couple, because I won't change their thinking...but then to learn from it. To be reminded how much of this thinking is still out there, and to re-commit myself to working for justice for my glbt parishioners and friends, and their loved ones.

We have a family in our congregation, two women and their beautiful children--a boy in grade school and a girl in middle school. When I hear ugly things said about glbt folks, I think of those two kids, and of what it does to them to hear such things about their moms. And I feel like it's my job to first protect them from that hatred, and then to do what I can to end it.

Whether I'll grow from this, I can't really say. But, after the initial hurt--which was very real--I find myself angry and motivated to keep working for justice. If that's growth, then I'm growing.

Does this help?

[crim son]

63. It does.

You show strength and character. I want to do the same. Thank you.

[Critters2]

65. Actually, I'm quite weak and cowardly, but I keep finding myself

in situations where SOMEONE has to take a stand. And that someone ends up being me. And it really does help to think that any strength comes from the Holy Spirit, and that what I'm doing is simply following the teachings of Jesus.

Maybe I just like someone else to take responsibility for my behavior :)

[RFKHumphreyObama]

66. It is THEIR loss in the end, not yours

If they can't see past their prejudice and bigotry, their lives will be the much less for it even if they don't realize it

Your sexuality is no one else's business but yours.

:hug:

[Debi]

69. So, what are they going to ask the next applicant?

Do you hate gays? b/c we only want gay haters to officiate our moral union in a religious sanctuary under God's blessing.

:grr: They are sad people and this is no way for them to be starting a life together.

:hug: I'm sorry for you.

d.

[joneschick]

70. well, now that I've read the entire thread

you're doing all the right things. Bigotry hurts. Use the experience, as you said to refresh your efforts within your congregation and into the community. Our pastor got death threats when she agreed to officiate at the congregation's first lesbian committment ceremony. Some people are just ignorant and can be helped along. These folks don't sound like the reachable sort. I'm deeply sorry for your pain. :hugs:

[Critters2]

73. Wow. Death threats. Sad. Just sad.

Thanks to your pastor for being brave, though.