Did you ever "divorce" a friend?

[MorningGlow]

This is so weird. I've had the same best friend for 30 years. Now, however, whenever we spend any time together, I end up wanting to slap her silly. I just don't want to be around her anymore--she just GRATES on me, and it's like we can't communicate anymore. I find this whole situation immensely sad. Has anyone in the Lounge gone through something like this? What in the world do you do? How do you "divorce" a friend? :(

[_testify_]

1. How often do you see each other?

[MorningGlow]

8. Once a week

To make matters worse, she's my coven sister, and we have a class together every week. She irks me there, and she irks me in e-mails in between classes.

[Crazy Dave]

2. Indeed

People change, for better or worse or not at all. I've divorced friends I've had for a long time and I've also forgiven and revived old friendships that went bad years ago.

[SacredCow]

5. Yep.

From the movie "Stand By Me": "It happens sometimes. Friends come in and out of our lives like busboys in a restaurant."

[MorningGlow]

10. That's a good point

Perhaps someday we can revive our friendship. But I really, REALLY don't want to be around her right now.

[amitten]

3. I did that. I had a good friend of about 5 years who went kinda

nuts.

He became a really avid conspiracy-theorist and would turn every consversation around to involve some conspiracy theory...we couldn't even have normal conversations.

I couldn't take it anymore. He would rant and rave constantly. One day he called and I just didn't pick up. I screened all my calls for weeks after and he finally got the hint that I wansn't wanting to talk to him again.

It was cold and I still feel bad and cowardly about it. But he was seriously going off the deep end and I just couldn't be a part of it.

[JVS]

6. So the conspiracy finally got to you too!

[MorningGlow]

14. Ah. Insanity.

At least that makes it clear cut--insanity is a solitary experience.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. my best friend from college. i evolved. she didnt. we drifted.

[MorningGlow]

13. I've had that happen with other friends

It didn't bother me like this does, although it's the same situation. The funny thing is, I believe I've evolved past her, and I'll bet anything she believes SHE evolved past ME. Maybe there is no "forward" and "behind", just...apart.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i disagree. i worked out my bigotry and expanded my horizons.

she didnt.

[MorningGlow]

26. Oh that IS a different situation

I can see where you have evolved beyond her. Alas, in my situation, my friend thinks she's "more enlightened" than I am, and I feel just fine in the enlightenment department. But my beliefs prevent me from judging people and the spiritual paths they're on, so that's why I choose to think she and I are just on different, parallel paths, not one above the other.

[Colorado Progressive]

7. Yes, only with my sister.

It sucks.

[MorningGlow]

12. That's what makes this hard

She's like a sister to me--we've been together our entire lives. I'm in the "can't live with her, can't live without her" phase--I would miss her terribly if we didn't communicate, but when we do--UGH. Who is this person and where did my friend go?

[Colorado Progressive]

17. Did you evolve away from her? That's what happened with us.

She used to live in a co-op in SF and eat tofu and campaign for Nader. Now she's all about how much money she has, and is constantly saying things like "I think my boyfriend makes more than your husband!" WTF???? Where did this person come from? Really???

Not that I am endorsing campaigning for Nader.

[MorningGlow]

21. I think so

My friend didn't become more materialistic, though--she became more "spiritual", which, ironically, is NOT a good thing. (Hee just mistyped "not a god thing"--also true!) She has been "promoted" in our coven and has started acting all holier-than-thou toward me, lecturing me on how to behave and think, as though I needed teaching from her. (We have been in the coven the exact same amount of time and she was promoted only because she sticks to our high priestess like glue.)

Sorry your friend got all caught up in the money thing. That sucks.

[Colorado Progressive]

27. ooooh, I hate when people do the "I'm more spiritual than you" shit.

Just the fact that they think that means that they are not.

[MorningGlow]

30. Exactly!

But there's no telling 'em that! :eyes:

[Zephyrbird]

50. Oh bother--nothing like a witch with a broom UP her ass,

rather than sitting on it.

These kinds of politics within a coven are very common, sister. That's why I have been a sole practitioner for 98% of my life.

Listen, you can learn more from nature about your spirituality and power than you can from a group who looks down their noses at you.

As in all things, usually the ass-kisser gets the promotion. Remember the rule of three, though. It's central to our beliefs, and when someone forgets about that law they'll get the old cosmic 2 by 4 sooner or later!!!!

Besides, the nature of paganism is to be an individual. NOBODY can tell me or you what our personal existence is about--PISS off to anyone who disrespects that with a power play.

You hang in there sister, and don't let anybody push you around!!!

HAAAAARUMPH! I'm a crone and I dare anybody to argue with me!!

[Colorado Progressive]

52. Thats funny. My husband and I played around with joining a coven...

but all the so called witches we talked to seemed to have no fucking clue what they were talking about. It was more of a "I was here first, I rule" mentality. And honestly all I could think was, who was teaching them? A ressurected person from the dark ages????

I mean they get these books from Borders and that makes them a witch?

I think most of that belief system, and what made it so phenomenal, has been lost. Sad, but true IMO.

[MorningGlow]

58. That would be the only thing I'd regret

My HP and our coven REALLY know our stuff. No reading off of notecards while raising a circle, that's for sure. I would miss that.

(I know too many covens like the one you're describing, and they do a great disservice to the craft.)

[Colorado Progressive]

64. You are lucky. You must live in SF or something. Starhawk....

I would be in a coven with her. I went to a lecture of hers about 15 years ago with my mom. She gave me goosebumps. I remember her exact words about global warming, "If you discover that there is arsenic in the cereal you eat every morning, you don't slowly phase it out over 50 years." I have always remembered that!

[MorningGlow]

56. BWAAAAAhahhhaaaaa!

Thanks, Zephyrbird, I needed that! Broom up the ass indeed! Many blessings upon you, crone! (I'm a near-crone--got about 10 years till I'm there--is it fun? I hear tell you can really do whatever the hell you want with your spiritual freedom by that point. if so, it sounds great!)

The last coven event I went to was my friend's elder ceremony at Lammas. I truly was happy for her, and even though she and I were in the same (very first) class and the only two members remaining of the original coven (we're talking 15 years here), I didn't expect to receive the same "honor" because I'm spending more time raising my toddler than participating in coven activities (and that doesn't go over well with our HP), while she's divorced, has no kids, and the coven is her life.

After the ceremony/circle, our HP took her for a walk. I knew she was telling her that she is now different, has a responsibility to the coven (to be a guide and mother figure, etc.), blah blah blah. Little did I know that she would take it so to heart that she now feels free to lecture me if she thinks I'm behaving the wrong way or thinking the wrong things! YIKES!!!! Methinks the ego is inflating to dangerous proportions.

I want to take off before the cosmic 2x4 starts swinging, that's for sure!

Honestly, though, I never thought it would come to this--this division, this separation. I counted my HP and my friend as family--closer to me even than some of my blood family members. And then, in the blink of an eye, it's totally different.

My guide has been saying I have to strike out on a spiritual quest on my own very soon, and I know it will help me evolve exponentially. But it sure is tough to wrap my mind around the fact that the coven, which has taught me so much, is now holding me BACK. Weird, no?

[Colorado Progressive]

66. It sounds like

maybe you should listen to your guide. The whole purpose of being in a coven is for spiritual enrichment/development. It sounds like the new environment might make that difficult for you.

[Zephyrbird]

69. The Matron phase!!! Ah, it's wonderful.

Taking care of your toddler is your primary goal and responsibility right now, as it should be as a Matron. I'm sorry that this is so hurtful for you.

Yes, being a crone has its advantages. Oh, say, if your friend lectured me about wrong thinking, being a crone I'd say, "do the letters FO mean anything to you!!??" Nobody lectures a crone and gets away with it. But then, the process to becoming a crone means you know yourself inside and out, and you understand what motivates your actions and the actions of others. Sometimes you tolerate, sometimes you don't. :spank:

I spoke with a sage I happened to meet at a party. He told me the same things go on in his coven. Any time you have a group, politics and power plays are going to happen.

Are you thinking correctly by wanting to leave? As a crone I'd say yes! Your unwillingness to toe the line tells me you've outgrown being in this coven and outgrown being with your friend. You are not weak to want to leave.

The gods are everywhere. You don't need to be in a coven to further your spirituality unless you still want to be in a group setting. If that's so, shop around for another group.

Have some faith in yourself and don't be afraid. Those of us serious about our beliefs go through these trials.


:pals:

[AngryAmish]

62. Maybe you need a new coven

(and I can easily say I never expected to ever have to give that particular piece of advice to anybody ever)

[Dystopian]

76. : (

Sorry. Me too. You just made me think of her. It's a sad situation...I used to be so proud of her when she was growing up...I'm 10 years older than she is....We would never be friends if we just happened to meet...Our value systems collide....

peace~

[NewJeffCT]

9. Yes, I "dumped" a 25 year friend maybe 10 years back

I had literally been friends with him since I was about 5 years old...

He was never a very bright guy and had some troubles as a kid. However, if he had his head screwed on straight, he might have been a major league baseball player (he had a 90+ mph fastball and his best pitch was his curveball, and also could switch hit from the plate)

I had put up with his occasional drunken rants over the years because I felt sorry for him because of problems in the past, and because he was usually pretty good when he was sober and was around responsible people (he moved to Florida on his own for a bit in the early 90s and ended up getting arrested a few times for fighting or DUI type things)

But, one day he just went off and started ranting about how Reggie Lewis (the former Celtics star who OD'd) deserved to die and he was glad he was dead, and starting going off on "niggers" other minorities and was just absolutely vicious. He had complained about African Americans before, but it was more along the lines of how he didn't like when "blacks" trash talked on the basketball court... though, I shut him up when I told him Larry Bird was maybe the biggest trash talker out there. But, this rant was just way beyond anything he had done before...

I haven't talked to him at all since that night.

I guess the guy went downhill for a few years to the point where he wasn't even invited to his brother's wedding in 2002 or 2003, but I did hear he has gotten his life somewhat together.

[MorningGlow]

11. Ouch. That's really sad.

I can see why you would distance yourself. Glad he's doing better now.

[NewJeffCT]

15. I think he is at least

But, for him, an improvement would be being sober for an extended period, not getting into bar fights and holding a steady job.

He's really the black sheep of his family, though. His sister is a school teacher and his brother is an engineer, while he barely graduated high school.

[ThomCat]

18. Oh yes. I've left a couple of old friends behind

because they seemed to be devolving instead of growing. There was less to talk about as they became more conservative, less to do together, and it seemed like our only positive connection was reminiscing about old stuff.

[Va Lefty]

19. Yeah, my best friend in college

We were tight in college, but after we graduated we were like brothers. We ran with the same circle of friends and almost every weekend/holiday we did something together (party, concert, sporting event, trip etc.)
Well, long story made short, he slept with my GF. There was the inevitable he said, she said (She came on to me, I was drunk, visa versa) but the bottom line was that a person who I trusted and loved like a brother had violated that trust. I broke up with GF immediately and tried to forgive my best friend, but every time we were together I was reminded of the whole sordid affair. I felt that the only way I could ever put this incident behind me was to cut all ties to him, which I did. That was 15 years ago, still hard to think about.

[MorningGlow]

22. Yikes

Now THAT makes complete sense.

[Chovexani]

20. It JUST happened in my circle of friends

Situation: four of us, very good friends, renting a house together in Phoenix. K, who is a very good friend from back east, was languishing in a dead end job in Bumblefuck, PA, and getting nowhere with her art. She moved in with us, and we were helping her network to get her seamstress business off the ground (we introduced her to the local SCA folks, etc). We helped her get a job at the same place my one friend and I work. Everything was cool. I decided to get my own place, about a month ago, and K said she'd take me over on the lease. All good.

Fast forward three weeks. All of a sudden, we catch her in a lie, and it turns out her crazy fundie Xian mother guilt tripped her into moving back home. She was planning on sneaking out and had been lying to our faces. She even gave her two weeks notice at work, and told our supervisor not to tell me and our other friend. This woman is 27 years old and had her father fly out to "rescue" her. This supposedly bad ass ex-Marine reduced my friends to tears, calling them manipulative bullies that made her buy things for them (which was a total lie, she spent most of her money on herself and only got us a few gifts, neglecting to mention we bought her gifts as well) etc. It's a good thing I wasn't there or I'd have put my foot in his ass, ex-Marine or not. She took back everything she gave them. Even the kitchen knives. Then she had the audacity to talk all this shit about how she was "uncomfortable" with our religion (she is born again Christian, we're all Pagans), when she'd never once said anything to us about it. We went out of our way to accommodate her beliefs and never asked her to participate in ritual, or anything other than to be mindful of our household deities and observe basic magickal etiquette. That in particular was a real slap in the face. So now she's back in PA, and will be just as miserable as she was before. I could care less. She made her bed and now she has to lie in it. When someone pisses off Kwan Yin, they have issues.

My friends have to move because they can't afford the rent now, but luckily they found a much nicer, smaller house very close to my work. The emotional betrayal is what hurts the most. But it's as I told my friends, you can't save everyone.

[MorningGlow]

23. Sounds like you guys freaked her out!

Well what the hell was she expecting, a born-again plopping herself among a bunch of pagans?!
:rofl:

Unfortunately my conflict is within my coven, which lends a whole new meaning to "Don't you even remember who Kwan Yin IS?!"

[Chovexani]

34. LOL!

Oh lord, coven drama. Man that is why I'm solitary. I did the whole coven thing until my HPs went batshit insane and started treating the coven like her personal assistants. Girlfriend got a little too wrapped up in her own image.

My ex-friend..crazy part is that she was TOTALLY cool before this. Like, she was definitely one of the "good" Christians. She never, ever had anything bad to say about anyone's faith. We gave her readings, and my Reiki master even attuned her to level 1. She was totally cool and open-minded and then all of a sudden... :crazy: I honestly think her mom put some crazy shit in her head and that's why she flipped out all of a sudden.

[MorningGlow]

36. Check this

Our HP is going through menopause PLUS is getting the "ego creep" at the SAME TIME. Day-um, 15 years of normal and now this! It doesn't help one bit now that my friend is an elder--as goes the HP, so goes the newly minted elder/friend.
:hide:

[Chovexani]

40. Poor you!

:hug:

[DarkTirade]

54. I'm such a bad pagan... I had a brainfart and I had to look up who Kwan Yin is... :P

Well, that and I'm bad with names. :)

[skygazer]

24. Sometimes you need some space from certain people

I have a friend who I've known for about that long and she would quite certainly drive me mad if I was around her on a weekly basis.

We shared several apartments in our teens and early 20's and we'd live together for about 9 months and that's about as long as I could take it. It wasn't really anything she did so much as we just spent too much time together.

So we'd have a blow-up and one of us would move out and we'd run into each other 6 months later and move back in together.

Now I see her every few years since I live across the country from her. I like so many things about her but we're pretty different in some fundamental ways and without that distance, she'd have me tearing my hair out.

Maybe you just need a break.

[MorningGlow]

31. I'm going to try that for now

Taking a break, I mean. See if that will help. :hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

25. Yep...

In the early spring my oldest friend's father passed away. It brought us back together. But she's an alcoholic and a liar. There's only so much of the untreated paranoid schizophrenic bullshit I can take. She actually hasn't matured at all since High School. And she took some serious drugs that have fucked up her brain chemistry. She's scary and a little crazy. And she's never been a friend to me. She's only taken from me.
I finally told her we couldn't talk anymore or be friends because I was sick of being lied to and treated like I was her bitch. Then we had our 10 year high school reunion. It became the Mary show, with her showing her ass. We were ignored basically at dinner, and I got lectured for it by her. If I never see her again I don't think I will be sad.
Duckie

[DarkTirade]

28. Yes, but she wasn't a friend for that long.

Discovered a bit of hypocracy/homophobia that I didn't realize was there at first. That, and she kept trying to get me to jump into bed with her and I wasn't really interested. Then she got pissed off at me when I wasn't interested and accused me of 'stringing her along'.

[Chovexani]

35. I hate when otherwise cool people turn out to be bigots

I had a friend like that once. She was really neat until, completely out of the blue, she started talking about "the gays". It was just vicious and totally :wtf:. I politely let her know I was bisexual (she'd assumed I was straight because I was dating a man at the time) and I didn't appreciate her homophobia.

I never talked to her again.

[DarkTirade]

53. Yeah, I hadn't told this girl that I was bi at the time

and she started railing about how gays shouldn't be allowed to have sex because its gross. Two girls is all right by her, because since men find that attractive it must not be gross. But because no girls EVER find two men together attractive, it's gross. (Yeah, tell that to all the girls I know who have yaoi as their windows backgrounds... :P ) It was just like WTF... that's like saying that unattractive people having sex should be outlawed, just because SHE doesn't know anyone who would find that attractive.

Even weirder was that this was right after she'd told me that she let her last ex do that to her... yet she didn't think two men should be allowed to. Seriously one of those WTF moments. Up until then the only homophobia I'd really encountered was just juvenile 'eww gross' kinds. But all of a sudden there was this genuine vitriol, for no reason other than the fact that she personally didn't like it.

I don't know if I ever told her I was bi, after that I just pretty much stopped talking to her.

[SPKrazy]

29. Essentially I Did

a friend of mine from high school started college during my senior year. He was all about partying, even though he had stayed out for several years. Well he would show up and want me to ditch class and go play pool, or go drinking, in the morning, afternoon, whenever.

I finally just quit doing anything with him, quit answering his calls, etc.

:shrug:

[fizzgig]

32. my best friend when i was 16

when had a nasty breakup that only two teenage girls could have

we reconnected four years ago and now i can't imagine being without her again

i'm sorry you're going through this with your friend :hug:

[MorningGlow]

37. Oh cripes I had one of those too!

Things came to a head on my 16th birthday no less. We were inseparable, and then one day she just stopped talking to me and pretended I didn't even exist. And then, two weeks later, she walked up to me with a smile and started making small talk like nothing had ever happened. We never did make it up (mainly because I do NOT take kindly to being jerked around like that and I gave her what for when she tried to be friendly again) and I never did find out what set her off for those two weeks. :crazy:

[fizzgig]

38. oh wow

our blow up culminated at her 16th birthday party :crazy:

ours was screaming, crying, swearing...the whole works

we didn't talk for over six years

[KitchenWitch]

33. I so feel ya!

But you got my PM about it.

It is damn hard. In my situation, the distance does make it a little easier (she is in MN and I am here.)

[datasuspect]

39. i could never turn my back on a true friend.

i'd gladly shoulder their load for a minute if i could, at least try to understand, from a distance.

just could never dispose of someone. even if they fuck up. and with people i know "fucking up" can have serious consequences.

so it's really a question of seeing past some things and looking through others and get to the heart of the situation.

i mean, we're all real people.

[fortyfeetunder]

41. Racist literature e-mailed to me from a :"friend"

killed the relationship, especially when the race being targeted in the literature is the same as mine.

Nuff said.

[Zephyrbird]

48. Holy crap!

:wow: Can you believe what people do?

That's like the time at work during the winter this so-called "friend" of mine came to me and said, "well, it's okay if I park in the handicap spot in the winter because you can't see the wheelchair mark, right?" And here I have a disability. What could I say??? "FUCK YOU" wasn't acceptable at work during that time. I couldn't break her legs, either. tsk!!

People are stupid and --well, I was going to say ignorant, but "ignorant" allows for people just being unaware. So let's leave it at stupid.

[begin_within]

42. You let it fade away, by

1. Not putting anything into it. Don't call them, don't write them, don't go to see them, don't contact them at all.
2. When they contact you, be polite but indifferent and not enthusiastic.
3. If you happen to spend time with them, be polite but superficial and quiet.
90% of a relationship is communcation, and if you slowly shut down the communication, the relationship will die on the vine and there will be nothing left. I think this is better than cutting it off suddenly, because that can cause hurt feelings, while the slow starving of it allows them to gradually get used to it. Don't explicitly say, "I don't want to see you any more" or "I don't want to talk to you any more" or "This is over with." Just gradually reduce your connection to that person.

[MorningGlow]

55. Well then!

I don't have to divorce my friend--SHE'S divorcing ME! I swear, that is EXACTLY the way she is treating me lately. We used to e-mail all the time; now she won't contact me, but if I e-mail her first, then she'll be friendly (till she gets all snobbish in her e-mails, that is). When we're together, she treats me like an acquaintance. Yeppers, I guess I don't have to put any effort into this at all! :hi:

(Gee, I just realized I sounded sarcastic, but I'm not--I mean what I just wrote sincerely--it's a bit of a relief not to have to DO anything. I am irked, however, that the reason she's ditching me is because she now believes she's on a higher spiritual plane than I am. Me, I'd just ditch her because she's being condescending and superior.)

[begin_within]

57. That makes it easier for you.

The task for you, if you want this relationship to end, is to shut down all channels of communication. My only point is that it is better to do it slowly. Obviously don't reply to any e-mail message she sends you, and in those few times you do have contact with her, keep it polite, but superficial and forgettable. Don't allow it to progress into a deep or meaningful conversation, if you want this relationship to end, because that will just revive the relationship. Ask yourself, what do you get from this relationship that is good for you? That will help you to decide whether you want it to end.

[MorningGlow]

59. Thanks, Bob

You're entirely correct. I'm truly not enjoying this relationship one bit, and this gradual separation is making it easier to close it down. Kinda like scootching a bandaid off bit by bit instead of the ol' giant rip. :hi:

[begin_within]

65. You're welcome. Some friendships can be taxing and draining, and

I believe that a friendship must be beneficial to both of the participants, and if it is not, it should not continue to be maintained, even if you have known that person for decades. That's not enough reason to keep it going. It has to be mutually beneficial and it has to be worth the time and energy - the benefit you get must be worth the cost. This may seem cold and cynical, but time is far too expensive to waste it on dysfunctional or destructive relationships of any kind. :hi:

[QMPMom]

43. Yes, I had to distance myself and cut off my friend, who'd been my

best friend since we were three years old. I cut off the relationship about 9 years ago - after we'd been friends for about 38 years. It's a very long story and a very painful one.

My family keeps urging me to call her, and I almost did when I went home this past summer, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it. She told my next-younger sister, if I want to call her, that there will be no questions asked as to why and we can just pick up where we left off. Part of me wants to mend the relationship and part of me wants to just let things be. It would actually be nice if she'd contact me and ask what the problem is, but she has made no effort. All attempts have been through a third party and I think I deserve more than that - especially given what she did that caused me to end the friendship. She claims to not know what happened, but I think she does. In fact, I am sure that my blabber-mouth youngest sister has told her.

*sigh*

[riderinthestorm]

44. I divorced her cold turkey.

She accused my husband of "flirting" with one of his clients (not anything worse than that mind you, just giddy talking and joking around). That level of friendship and dialogue with his client made my friend furious (on my behalf or was she secretly jealous herself of their relationship?!)

Anyway, long story short, I trusted my husband 110% and I trusted this client even more. So I told my friend that she had to back off, that she was mis-reading the relationship (the client was just giddy, ecstatic, and yes - mildly flirting with my husband, cause she had finally found salvation for her troubled horse and was having a bit of a star-struck craziness that happens sometimes to women and their horses.)

My husband, the client, me - we all tried to talk to my (now ex) friend but she was adamant that his relationship with her was inappropriate and went bat-shit at me for not divorcing him!

So I had to choose - him or her.

10 years later my husband and I are still happily, joyfully married, and I see my now ex-friend around at competitions sometimes and it's really stiff. I (we) still have a lovely relationship with the client (and her husband) so I believe I made the right decision to cut her off.

But it was hard. She wouldn't be reasoned with and I had to end it as her verbal rhetoric about me and him was escalating. Our daily walks ended, our daily conversations, her relationship with my kids and my life.... yes it was hard but my marriage was more important.

[Zephyrbird]

45. Oh, hell yes!

Many many times.

I'm infamous for walking away when certain buttons get pushed. I refuse to return calls, I won't discuss it (because people always turn it around to make it YOUR fault), and I broom them.

Sounds cold, and yes sometimes I miss old friends, but there comes a time when you kind of--well--I don't know, maybe grow differently? I mean, married people can grow apart and change, so why not friends?

I've had one friend for 13 years who is my best friend and most loyal, yet we have a few go arounds now and then. We're still friends because we know when to give each other space.

You have to decide when friendship is done out of habit, not caring. My suggestion is not to be such a cold ass as I--30 years is a long time.

Is she depending on you for her socializing? Do you feel responsible for her? That could be what is subconsciously grating on you. You feel maybe that you're putting in more than you're getting out.

[ovidsen]

46. 40 years of friendship down the drain

"Doug" and I had been friends for 40 years. Thick and thin and all that.

The downhill began when I was invited to his wedding (not his first) six years ago. Very much to my surprise, when I got to the services, I realized that he was marrying "Nancy". We had drifted apart after I moved to NYC from Chicago 28 years ago. I was a thrill talking to her at the reception, although hovering in the background was "Doug's" barely hidden jealousy; I couldn't understand that. I was married (to the same woman I'm married to now) and I couldn't fathom his resentment. He won! He got the girl of his dreams. What threat was I (a married man to a woman I had no intent of running off into the sunset with)) to his matrimonial bliss??

Two years later, it came to a head. I was invited to a "class reunion" several years ago. "Doug" and "Nancy" were both present and pleasant. That is, until "Nancy" and I went on a moonlight walk, discussing old times, politics, our respective marriages. We also reminisced about the ONE time we slept together, 30 years ago. She was passionate, and so was I, but in the morning, we both agreed that platonic friendship was the best path. Why sabotage two marriages (hers to "Doug" and mine to "Sara") with reckless moments of groping, kissing and possibly even unbridled carnal ecstacy Wasn't worth the grief.

These little nuances when right above "Doug's" head. Even though "Nancy" and I hadn't shed a single article of clothing, and even our occasional kisses were the kind my sister and I share (no open mouths, no tonsil hockey), "Doug" went on a rampage, accusing me of fucking his wife, while planning to marginalize him into non-existence.

He went to their beach house, and threw all her clothes and accesories into a muddy hole. I was mortified. "Nancy" was mortified. Needless to say our hosts were mortified. Shorthly after that "Doug " and "Nancy" went their separate ways.

Occasinally, "Doug sends me an email. He and "Nancy" got a divorce. I never heard from "Nancy" again. Occasionally I get an email from "Doug" I never answer. I still cannot forgive his behavior.

Am I petty? Guess so. And yet I still get the occasional email from "Doug", asking for absolution.

Not yet, "Doug". Not yet

[HEyHEY]

67. forgive doug and stop being stupid

[colinmom71]

70. I'm willing to bet that "Nancy" had been unfaithful to "Doug"...

Beforehand and you just didn't know about it. Sounds like Nancy has consistent boundary issues, considering the moonlight walk with you. Inappropriate for marrieds when said moonlight walk is not with the spouse. Not to mention discussing intimate marriage issues with a member of the opposite sex. I would be very upset to learn that my spouse was discussing our marriage and old times with another woman, especially if they shared a prior sexual history. And did so during a moonlight walk...

Likely, Doug realized the issues were with her and not you. Give Doug a chance to explain his jealousy and previous behavior. Likely my suspicions are accurate. Most people don't act that way without a reason. At the very least, you can be assured the problem was not with you at all...

[JVS]

79. I think Doug was right to dislike you going on moonlit walks reminiscing about banging his wife

It's sad that he feels that he needs your forgiveness.

[bridgit]

47. hell yes!! a 'friend' approaching divorce status is barley a friend at all...

[ovidsen]

49. Dubious bliss

bliss??

Two years later, it came to a head. I was invited to a "class reunion" several years ago. "Doug" and "Nancy" were both present and pleasant. That is, until "Nancy" and I went on a moonlight walk, discussing old times, politics, our respective marriages. We also reminisced about the ONE time we slept together, 30 years ago. She was passionate, and so was I, but in the morning, we both agreed that platonic friendship was the best path. Why sabotage two marriages (hers to "Doug" and mine to "Sara") with reckless moments of groping, kissing and possibly even unbridled carnal ecstacy Wasn't worth the grief.

These little nuances when right above "Doug's" head. Even though "Nancy" and I hadn't shed a single article of clothing, and even our occasional kisses were the kind my sister and I share (no open mouths, no tonsil hockey), "Doug" went on a rampage, accusing me of fucking his wife, while planning to marginalize him into non-existence.

He went to their beach house, and threw all her clothes and accesories into a muddy hole. I was mortified. "Nancy" was mortified. Needless to say our hosts were mortified. Shorthly after that "Doug " and "Nancy" went their separate ways.

Occasinally, "Doug" sends me an email. He and "Nancy" got a divorce. I never heard from "Nancy" again. Like I said, ccasionally I get an email from "Doug" I never answer. I still cannot forgive his behavior.

Am I petty? Guess so. And yet I still get the occasional email from "Doug", asking for absolution.

Not yet, "Doug". Not yet.

[LibDemAlways]

51. Yes, several times, and I never looked back. Once

I'm done, I'm done.

[XemaSab]

60. Yup

This girl was my best friend for years.

She had a thing for my boyfriend, and HER boyfriend had a thing for me.

It was creepy, and I had to end the friendship. :(

[AngryAmish]

61. I had to and feel guilty about it

The guy always had temper problems then got a serious head injury. His temper exploded. I tried for years to deal with his illogical rages, then I just gave up. I'm polite but I don't do things with him anymore.

[BlackVelvet04]

63. Yes, just recently....

the woman was driving me mad. Every time we talked she spewed out anger and self pity over the same things....over and over and over again. She has become neurotic and a hypochondriac and I couldn't take it any more. She would talk for hours and never even ask what I had been doing or how I am.

[HEyHEY]

68. you just need some time apart

[oceanspirit]

71. MG Divorce is Tough if it's a friend of 30 years or a marriage of 30 years

As you well know, I"vie ended a friendship of over 20 years old. I had to. It was such a toxic relationship for me. Her family was toxic, she was toxic, and extremely negative. This is not a healthy friendship. Finally after a huge blow up which stemmed from an agreement between her son and my daughter I knew it was time to end it. Without going into the huge long story, just know it ended with her son telling my daughter (as I was on the extension) "Why dont you and your mother do this world a favor and go hang yourselves!" I called my so called girlfriend and told her what was going on and that I had all intentions of letting these two young adults work it out (they grew up together since they were 3 years old) and had no desire to end our friendship just because our kids couldn't get along, but what I got on the other end of the phone was "Well what did you expect?" "You know how J's explosive behavior gets when he's verbally attacked?"
I got not "Oh god honey I"m so sorry he said that" I got no understanding from her side. Only cristi sm from her on what a bitch my daughter is. I know without going into the whole long story, it's hard for any of you who are reading this to understand just how hurt I was after her and I had been through so very much together over the past 20 years. I had a cooling down period of about a week, before I could construct an intelligent email to her, and we bantered back and forth for awhile before I finally just didn't email her back again. Oh did I mention, her son once pull a gun on me in HER house over a slight argument over my daughter again. Her son is one freaking hot head, married with two young children under the age of 2. My daughter was dating a friend of his brother in law's and apparently the brother was told something in confidence that got told to J and his wife at their house over dinner, and it came back to bite my daughter in the butt. This is how this whole thing happen.
I decided then to divorce this relationship for a couple of reasons. !. I knew you can never ague when it comes to a mother and their child. NO matter if you think your child is in the wrong, this woman or maybe any woman would admit their child was in the wrong. 2. I told her I wanted to stay out of it, but she insisted on pulling me into it. 3. Pulling a gun on your friend is NO and I mean no excuse to say, well you know how he gets, he didn't mean anything by it and would have never acted on it.
MG, this is Toxic, and the reason I'm telling all of you all this, is because, I know MG's friends and this one especially. This particular friend is now high up in the Coven rants. MG has a child to take care of, and this lady does not. She is divorced, with no children, and lots of mental issues she has never dealt with. She is a consistent attention needer. She needs the acceptance of her High Priestess and others from her group. I do find it a shame though that S is doing this to you after all the years the two of you have been friends
MG, in my opinion, (and I know from expedience how damn hard it is) but you really have to let her go honey. She is now in a group that she apparently feels superior to you and will tell you so. Even though she's not. But she needs this acceptance from R. She thrives on it. You do not have time any longer to do any handholding for her.
You know have different focuses and she can deal with that. So I hate to say this, but I think (for now anyways) let go hon. Maybe you dont have to call it a divorce, but and I mean this love-ling, give it a separation, before you decide on divorcing the relationship.
That is just my experience, and my opinion. Take it for what's it's worth.

Oceanspirit

[MorningGlow]

72. LOL there you are

I was wondering if you'd come across this thread!
:rofl:

Yeahhh I know what I have to do. And I will just "take a break"...to start, that is.

You know what I'm dreading--the trash talk about me after I'm gone--the speculation on what my problem is, how it's all in my head and they never ever did ANYthing to make me feel unwelcome, and worst, the certainty on their part that I'm not as evolved as they are and so the Universe removed me from their more spiritual communion because I couldn't keep up. And other various forms of bullshit. I can hear it already. Not that I'd actually hear it once I'm gone, because nobody in the coven would ever tell me, but day-um I know how they think and it'd gall me even from a distance to just KNOW they were hitting those points bang bang bang right on schedule.

Sigh.

Time to go, isn't it?

[oceanspirit]

78. For awhile hon

Maybe just give it some time. See what happens. You know how all of them are. I'm sorry that they're going to trash talk you. Those are real friends then are they? I love you hon. No matter what. Lets do lunch!!!!!!:toast: (Alone) If you know what I mean. Call me and we'll do lunch.

Oceanspirit

[MorningGlow]

80. Thanks, baby

Yeah, lunch--you mean with no guys or non-Ws hijacking the conversation? Hee. Agreed! I'll call you.

[GenDem]

73. I have a friend that I love very much

She works in your town. She is however very high maintenance. She is very opinionated and can be overbearing. When she starts to get on my nerves I back off for a while. We have been friends for over 20 years and I love her dearly. I could never not have her in my life, but I have to limit my exposure during those times when she is wearing on my nerves.

Maybe a little break will help.


:hi:

Our candidate for the 26th is awesome! We are going to sponsor an event after the local elections are over and I'll PM you.

I just sent in a LTTE to the Batavia Daily about Reynolds voting with Bush against the expansion of SCHIP and shaming him to do the right thing on Thursday and vote to override the veto for the sake of all the uninsured kids in our district. He makes me want to :puke:

[MorningGlow]

74. Hi there GD!

I'm hoping a break will help, I really do. My friend has always had her "issues", but she's very, very different at the moment. I know it's because she got a divorce--even though it was for the best and she's grateful to get rid of the turd (he really was awful), she's still going through the expected grief stages. And that means some really nasty sniping, personality changes, moodiness, some thrashing around searching for her "new" self, etc.

It's been a couple of years, so I was hopeful that she'd begun to heal, but she's going through counseling with our HP, so she's examining all kinds of uncomfortable things from her past--and apparently she's decided that I "haven't been a very good friend". This, from one of the highest-maintenance people on the planet! :eyes: As DH said, "Okay, she's mad at the ex; why is she taking it out on you?" Which really hits the nail on the head. Thirty years of friendship, and within months she's decided I'm evil. I mean... :wtf:

So I'll try to wait it out (from a DISTANCE!) and see if she sorts things out any better with a bit more time.

As for our political situation, good for you, doing a LTTE! Reynolds is such a waste of air, isn't he? :hi:

[ronnykmarshall]

75. Yes.

And while I do miss him, I don't regret it.

[Dystopian]

77. Yes, after almost 40 years.....

just walked away...and she never knew why...Once again, it was a principle thing....I can never keep friends...I'm judgmental to the extreme..and I'm the most flawed person of all......

peace~