"Africans are less intelligent than Westerners"

[ohiosmith]

Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners

Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the
testing says not really"

By Cahal Milmo
Published: 17 October 2007
One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.
more: http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece?123

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. *jaw drops*

[ohiosmith]

3. my reaction as well

[Ellen Forradalom]

6. me three

One scientific accomplishment and they start to think every word that drops from their lips is golden. :eyes:

[supernova]

2. Intelligence ain't no mitigator

of stupidity.

:eyes:

[kwassa]

4. what utterly complete racism

from the same article

Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University and a founder member of the Society for Social Responsibility in Science, said: " This is Watson at his most scandalous. He has said similar things about women before but I have never heard him get into this racist terrain. If he knew the literature in the subject he would know he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically."

[Richard Steele]

5. We've got at least one DUer who agrees completely with all that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2065545&mesg_id=2067858

[ohiosmith]

7. Unbelievable. I'm stunned. I mean really stunned.

[Orrex]

8. I posit a corollary

Whoever believes Watson's ramblings about racial intelligence is far dumber than either his hypothetical average Westerner or his hypothetical average African.

[libodem]

9. WTF

*jaw hits the floor*:wow:

[Hugin]

10. So, after unraveling DNA he went on to unravel his own mind?

Masterful genius! :wow:

[cobalt1999]

11. Two possibilities.

1) Science isn't politically correct and it can revel things people would rather not be true, or don't want to believe.

2) People use bad science all the time in order to backup political or biased viewpoints.

In this case, he doesn't have any good science to support his hypothesis. He even states the genes for intelligence have not been found. So, this is definately the case of #2.

[eyepaddle]

22. Yep, that lays it out straight away.

To paraphrase: I don't have any evidence at all--and that's more than enough proof for me.

[DarkTirade]

12. That's right, let's use standardized testing...

nevermind that the ones who still live on their native continent have gone through hundreds of years of being shat upon and many have no access to modern education... also nevermind that the ones who live here in the US were also shat upon for more than a hundred years, and so they tend to be poorer on average and therefore live in poorer areas with poorer schools...

And now that we've ignored any mitigating circumstances that might widely affect the testing, we can come to our already pre-decided conclusion...

*edited to fix spelling mistake. Can't have those when we're discussing intelligence... just too ironic.*

[nickgutierrez]

13. Why are we surprised about this?

Do we really think the racist caveman mentality is exclusively American?

EDIT - by the way, before we try to "measure" intelligence, we've got to define it first. Don't we?

[MedleyMisty]

14. I need to find the picture with the dude and the "Not this shit again."

Even if the tests really show that, did he control at all for differences in nurturing and environment? And were the tests culturally fair, or did he use one biased towards white Western Europeans and their American descendants?

And if he did use a non-biased test (which I highly doubt) why can't he see that two people can have the exact same genetic potential for intelligence but if one grows up in a financially and emotionally secure house full of books with plenty of leisure time for enrichment and learning and another grows up in dire poverty and violence it just might have an effect on their test scores?

God, this crap is why it's so hard to convince people that gifted kids need special education, because people like this dude get the idea of innate differences in intelligence tied to racism and people end up thinking that gifted education is "elitist" and just a way to get more money to rich white kids. And it's the gifted kids who aren't rich who get screwed because they tend to not have options outside public school.

[ohiosmith]

16. This help?

[redqueen]

18. ...

http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

[Tyler Durden]

19. I LOVE that picture.

That spot on his forehead he's rubbing is right where about 75% of my migraines start.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Wouldn't it be funny if the pic was originally from an old headache medicine advertisement?

[Westegg]

15. Watson's been saying stuff like this for years...

As my dad used to say, "Just because you're smart, it doesn't make you right."

[Dukkha]

17. more "bell curve" bullshit

the claim of a link between intelligence and genetics was debunked long ago.

[Ellen Forradalom]

20. Oh yeah? Well, white men can't jump!

So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Watson!

[Aristus]

21. Science is infallible.

Scientists...not so much.

Jeez, what an asshole! :eyes:

[Phoonzang]

23. His comment about black employees

demonstrates that his reasoning isn't scientific at all...

[lizerdbits]

28. I was talking about this today

with an African American coworker, one of the smartest (and funniest) people I've ever met. She laughed and said "OK I'll just go get you guys some coffee or tea while you discuss technical stuff that I could never understand."

I'll have to mention it to my AA boss when she comes back from a conference next week. I guess she got a PhD out of sympathy or bought it online. :eyes:

[BreweryYardRat]

25. This guy's a jackass masquerading as an imbecile.

There's plenty of evidence against his "findings," whether empirical or anecdotal. He knows it, we know it, he's just trying to get his bigotry out there and start the whole damned debate over again.

Millions of stupid people, of all races, are out there. Millions of smart people of all races, as well. Debate over.

Man, where are the Black Panthers when you really need them?

[Richard Steele]

26. Wrapped in a douchebag. nm

[sasquatch]

31. And coated in cornflakes

[applegrove]

27. Go to hell Mr.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. He won a Nobel...Now he deserves an Ignobel.

[eppur_se_muova]

30. Surprise, surprise! Invitation to Science Museum withdrawn!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3032439&mesg_id=3032481

[Burma Jones]

32. Just the Afrikaaners, right?