Yay! Going to see BodyWorlds tomorrow!

[MonkeyFunk]

Plastinated corpses! Woohooo!

[meegbear]

1. I went to their site to see about donating my body ...

(really) but they are in Germany and your estate has to pay to have it sent over, so no soap.

[Rhythm]

2. I went a couple of years ago... wow.

It took me about 3 hrs to get through it all, and be able to really absorb all of it.

Well worth the time, though...

[MonkeyFunk]

3. Cool

I've been wanting to see it since I first read about it years ago. I'm excited!

[mvccd1000]

4. Where is the show now? I missed it when it came through Phoenix. nt

[AllegroRondo]

26. BodyWorlds 3 is in St Louis

just opened last week

[Arugula Latte]

5. It's really incredible. Makes you realize how much stuff is packed inside us.

My kids liked it, too. The only thing that my daughter didn't like was seeing the digestive system on its own. Funny, all the other stuff, and that one isolated system was the one thing that kind of grossed her out. :)

[quip]

6. I saw it... rather

disturbing. I deny that replicas cannot be manufacturered instead of needing to use actual human bodies. We can intercept a friggin comet 1 million miles in space but can't make decent replicas of humans? B as in B, S as in S. I mean, Jesus, the one of a pregnant women in her 8th month or so with her belly sliced open so we could see her unborn child? That's messed up in my book.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. What's wrong with using real bodies?

They volunteer to be exhibited, and it's certainly fascinating. Replicas wouldn't be nearly as compelling.

To know that you're looking at REAL organs, nerves, bones.... it's quite a different experience.

Went this afternoon and the whole thing was fascinating.

[quip]

10. Not ALL volunteered....

I'm sure all of the fetuses, babies, animals didn't volunteer. I don't mind about the animals, it's just something about using ACTUAL humans that creeps me out. It goes beyond a disrespect; it borders along the lines of using humans, a la the Nazis, for experimentation. Human skin for lampshades. Would you use a human skin for a lampshade if it were from the skin of a volunteer? I wouldn't, because it's creepy-wrong.

Merely because it's fascinating doesn't justify it in my book. Does that make sense?

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Well

I understand that there's a natural human revulsion to corpses. That's part of why this exhibit is so fascinating.

Did the fetus volunteer? No. But the mother did, and she has control over it.

I think comparing this to human-skin lampshades is a bit of a stretch, because it evokes the Nazi era, and nobody's claiming their victims were volunteers.

But in the past, human-skin book binding was something of a fad:


http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2006/01/07/some_of_nations_best_libraries_have_books_bound_in_human_skin/

[quip]

12. Thanks for the link; that is exactly what

I'm talking about and with what I'm uncomfortable. Humans are NOT raw material for stuff. How do YOU feel about human skin book bindings? I think it is creepy as all hell. And the usage of the human body is on a very slippery moral slope:

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/cover

My inclination is to best not even go there.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. My feeling is that a corpse

has no special value. It's just decaying meat, bones, nerves and connective tissue.

I don't see a moral question involved, provided people aren't KILLED for their meat.

[quip]

16. Interesting. So, theoretically, you'd have no problem eating

human flesh that was voluntarily donated by someone before they died? (assuming, for argument's sake that it tastes good, like chicken)

I guess we agree to disagree on this. :puke:

[MonkeyFunk]

17. If I were starving....

I'd eat it.

But I doubt it's very tasty.

[quip]

18. But suppose you weren't starving, and that it tasted quite delicious...

Would you have no qualms whatsoever about dining on it? You said that after a person is dead, the body is simple bones, etc, just the same as a dead cow, fish, or chicken. Do you really believe this?

[MonkeyFunk]

19. My own personal revulsion aside

it'd be hard to come up with a moral argument against it.

But this display doesn't encourage the eating of corpses. It's educational and artistic.

[quip]

23. You don't think that your personal revulsion is related to

any moral arguments against it?

What would you say about a performance artist who dined on humans as his art?

All I'm suggesting to you is that a profane attitude towards a dead human body can lead to all kinds of disgusting things.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. And I think you're exaggerating

BodyWorlds has been around for 12 years, and cannibalism hasn't caught on.

And no, I don't think my revulsion is based on morality.

What exactly IS the moral argument against it?

[quip]

29. Cannibalism has been around since time immemorial, and is still

practiced around the world today irrespective of BodyWorld.

I am trying to get you to think about why it is repulsive to you, and I believe it is because it is against your morals.

In western society, we have come to associate a certain type of respect regarding the treatment of cadavers. I think it is an extension of a respect for life. While you might think that plasticizing human corpses is somehow respectful because it is educational, I happen to think that it is not justified for that cause or, for that matter, any cause. We can put a man on the moon; we can make an artificial BodyWorld exhibit.

But people don't want to see fakes, they want to see REAL humans. It's creepy and morbid.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. and cannibalism hasn't increased due to

BodyWorlds.

Please explain in a straightforward manner what the moral argument against it is.

[quip]

39. Do you have a cite for that? Regardless,

that is not the issue. Are you supposing that I am being purposely obtuse?

Using a cadaver for anything other than medical study has always been taboo in our culture, which in part explains your revulsion of cannibalism (another taboo). We as a society have deemed it immoral, that is, not normative as acceptable behavior.

I'm not sure what you expect for an answer; there is no THE moral argument, as if an 11th commandment existed which stated "Thou shalt not eat Pete"

[Book Lover]

38. I've been involved with the actual technical challenges of creating anatomical models

No, we cannot at this time or in the near future "make an artificial BodyWorld exhibit" that could begin to compare to the plasticized cadavers used in the BW exhibit. The real thing, with all its variations, is the best way to learn and understand the composition of the human body.

[quip]

40. Here's my issue: if there were 2 exhibits, BodyWorld with

cadavers, and another ArtificalBodyWorld (using technology not yet developed but rivals the appearance of cadavers), and they both toured the world. Which one, would you suppose, would be more popular, and why?

Honestly, you see the bodies and you can't really wrap your head around the fact that these were once living, breathing people. The most jarring thing for me was seeing the tattoos. They don't really even "look" real.

Copies would be completely sufficient when we are able to create them; I think that we should wait until then. We somehow got along before BW's appearance 12 years ago.

[Book Lover]

41. Well, no, a preserved body, no matter the method

won't look like a living or recently deceased person. Did you think they would?

I appreciate your distaste; I was in your shoes when I started this job (editing anatomy/physiology textbooks). But the opportunity for education is priceless - how often are people exposed to an cadaver anatomy lab? You say "We somehow got along before BW's appearance 12 years ago," but to that I say that fewer people understood human anatomy before BW, and knowledge of the human body leads to better treatment and care of that body. And that is a good thing.

[quip]

42. I don't know if BW has enhanced anyone's knowledge of the

human body REALLY. I'm thinking of a holographic projections that show blood flowing, lungs breathing, bodies moving to show muscles in action, etc. What about showing a fetus grow in time-lapse? THOSE are the kinds of things that I would find educational. BW is primitive when you stop to consider it, like a stuffed animal museum. At its very core is basic morbid fascination IMO.

[Book Lover]

45. Well hang on a sec - you are describing physiology now,

not anatomy, which is what BW is all about.

Obviously, nothing I say is going to change your mind; I would ask you to reconsider, however, your assertion that BW has not enhanced anyone's understanding of the human body, because that's pretty darn broad-brush. Millions of people have viewed these exhibits, more than have purchased the books I work on. Can one really say that not a single one of those millions has learned anatomy from the exhibit?

I would also encourage you to visit BodyWorlds website, http://www.bodyworlds.com/en.html, to get a better understanding of the purpose of BW.

[EstimatedProphet]

22. There's other factors involved

Human meat doesn't carry all the necessary vitamins that we need.

[quip]

24. Well, for that matter, what meat does? n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

25. Yes, but...

Since we eat meat to get those vitamins, we won't get them from human meat, because that's why were eating meat in the first place.

i.e. human meat isn't as nutritious for humans as other meat.

[lost-in-nj]

14. I went last year

it's awesome....

some of it is not for the faint of heart though.....
but amazing.....

:hi:


lost

[Arugula Latte]

21. To me, one of the most interesting aspects of the exhibit

was how it made you reflect on the very issues you bring up -- how do we feel about human bodies (dead or alive), is there anything in humans that makes their corpses more sacred than any other type of corpse, how do we feel about what happens to our bodies after we die, why are we feel revulsion towards certain things involving bodies and how does that differ from other people in our culture and outside our culture?, etc. It really makes reflect on your own attitudes, biases and beliefs.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. I saw it when it was here...

And it was outstanding, and fascinating!

Not to be missed...

:hi:

[Pharlo]

9. Awesome exhibit.

Saw Bodyworlds 2 in Chicago last April. Plan on going to Bodyworlds 1 when it hits Milwaukee in January. Be sure and rent the audio tour. Also, if you know a medical student, take them along. My nephew's presence proved to be invaluable.

Have fun and enjoy!

For anyone wondering, here's the site: http://www.bodyworlds.com/en/pages/home.asp

[WindRavenX]

13. aww lucky!

<--jealous

[AllegroRondo]

20. I saw it Saturday

and I was just amazed.
You really cannot comprehend how incredibly complex the human body is unless you see it up close like this.

[MonkeyFunk]

31. Isn't it something else?

It really was something to remember.

[AllegroRondo]

44. I thought you were near St Louis - we have BodyWorlds 3

which version did you see?

[Taverner]

27. The human body is a beautiful thing

That's what I came away with after seeing that

But then again, I'm kinda weird.

[Shine]

32. are you in san jose, ca?

we're going to see it on dec. 2nd with the kids. should be interesting. have fun! :hi:

[MonkeyFunk]

34. I'm in Santa Cruz

not too far away.

[Shine]

36. whoa, I'm in scotts valley!

howdy, neighbor! :pals:

have we had this conversation before? can't remember exactly...:D

[MonkeyFunk]

37. Howdy!

I don't believe we have had this conversation.

[supernova]

33. Saw it here in Durham for my birthday back in July

I thought it was very well done. It reminded me of some of the 19th Century freak exhibits. But maybe it was just the way the bodies were posed.

There was some controversy several years ago that maybe, maybe, not all of the individuals had indeed consented to have their remains used in this way. And that does make me sad and horrified, if it's true.

However, I enjoy scientific presentations of the body, so I wasn't upset by it. I even watch surgeries on Discover Health from time to time.

It might be morbid, however, it is a part of our experience. No one here gets out alive. Might as well learn something from it. And anyway, I don't care how many models and mockups you use, I don't want to be anywhere near a doc who has never worked on a real human body.

The cross sections and the separated nervous systems and circulatory systems were most impressive to me.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. The nervous system display

impressed me, too.

The charges that he was using "illicit" bodies were judged to be false. Every body on display was a volunteer.

[supernova]

43. Eyebrows

Here's what was comical to me.

On displays of faces that show the face muscles and eyeballs, they removed the skin. Then they painstakingly when back and glued the eyebrows back on. :wtf: :silly: