Jane Goodall broke the fourth wall.

[CorpGovActivist]

One of the people I admire most is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall">Jane Goodall.

Her http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall#Criticism">critics yammer that she anthropomorphized her subjects. You know what? I fling a big steaming pile at her critics.

They just better hope that their "important" work is printed on acid-free paper, and that some librarian with some sort of obscurity fetish tucks them into a capsule. The sands of time are a be-yelzebub.

Still.

She *did* break the fourth wall.

Was that good science? Tough call.

Did it raise the awareness of our species about our bananaed brethern? No doubt.

So.

Should we follow her lead, and break the fourth wall with the primates we encounter in our own lives?

Still mulling that one over. But like Jane, I do give them private nicknames. Yes, I can see why it was hard for her to resist doing that.

But while I'm thinking about that, I just made a donation, and got a http://www.janegoodall.org/">membership for a little monkey man in my family who I know will go ape.

- Dave

[Dangerously Amused]

1. I love JG. She is an amazing woman, and one of my all-time heroes.

Here's us a few years ago:




:hi:


Edit: fixed the link
Edit 2: Oh geez, I look stoned there. lol! Camera caught me mid-blink.

[CorpGovActivist]

2. That's a keeper!

So are you!

Where was it taken? For what event?

:hi:

- Dave

[Dangerously Amused]

3. Aw, you are sweet. *blushes*

That day remains one of my fondest memories. I'll PM you the details.

[CorpGovActivist]

5. Thank you for sharing!

Lovely.

:hug:

:toast:

- Dave

[semillama]

9. This is one of my favorite things she's ever said.

"Yeti or Bigfoot or Sasquatch….Well now, you’ll be amazed when I tell you that I’m sure that they exist….I’ve talked to so many Native Americans who all describe the same sounds, two who have seen them. I’ve probably got about, oh, thirty books that have come from different parts of the world, from China from, from all over the place." -NPR interview with Ira Flatow on Science Friday, Sept. 27, 2002.

One of the few primatology folks out there who aren't afraid to objectively look at the phenomena of sightings of unknown bipedal primates across the globe.

Plus, she's one hell of a class act.

(For the record, I don't consider myself a "believer" but I do think that the actual evidence on the ground can't be dismissed out of hand.)

[FloridaJudy]

18. I remember an expedition to the Himalayas

A few years back that was sponsored by an extremely respectable group - the Smithsonian or the National Geographic, not the National Enquirer - found DNA evidence that some large critter was living there that was not of any known species.

Very chilling, and suggests that Ms. Goodall could very well be right. I also once roomed with a Native American woman who quite matter-of-factly stated that she and some other family members had glimpsed Bigfoot from time to time. She was a smart and practical woman - she later got an advanced degree in chemical engineering - not at all a New Age type. I'm inclined to believe her, though it's possible she was honestly mistaken about what she'd seen (or was pulling this Caucasian's leg).

There's a great video of Goodall on TED: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/11

[alphafemale]

4. Wasn't she around 20 or something when she started?

And she was on her own? She was practically a kid.

Even if it was "bad science" I think we are all better off for what she learned and shared with us.

Sometimes good instinct is better than good science.

On edit. I really can't type and think sometimes.

[CorpGovActivist]

6. I concur.

Intuition informs good science.

- Dave

[murielm99]

7. Correct.

I saved some of those National Geographics, and I have some of her books.

I think she was a secretary, and did not have an undergraduate degree. Leakey saw some potential in her, and helped her get started. She did all her early observations in the field by herself.

She really is an amazing person.

[alphafemale]

8. Dian Fossey too. And she gave her life for it. nt

[CorpGovActivist]

13. Thanks for that reminder.

[xchrom]

10. i don't know why so many scientists forget humans are animals.

as we go -- so pretty much do they.

it's anthropomorphizing -- it's recognizing the same.

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. Most humans want to forget their animal side, instead of understanding and incorporating it.

Centuries of rejecting it have helped us as little as the current trend to feed it whatever it wants.

[stuntcat]

12. exactly

and even if the furrier ones' souls are simpler than ours they do have them, some have more noble souls than some humans but that's just an opinion of mine.

Anyway there isn't a Wall there.

[CorpGovActivist]

14. On the serious side: agreed.

On the lighter side: is there a treetop high enough to observe safely in GDP?

Yikes.

- Dave

[xchrom]

16. i wish -- the realm of the killer apes.

[Bake]

15. Dumb question: What's the fourth wall?

Bake

[Quantess]

20. She cut the 4th undersea internet cable

that serves the middle east.

[Shakespeare]

21. It's an old stage term--not quite sure how it applies here.

Think of a stage as having four walls--the sides and back being actual walls, with the fourth wall an imaginary barrier between actors and audience. Breaking the fourth wall refers to an actor acknowledging the presence/existence of the audience.

I don't think the term is being used correctly in the OP, but I could be wrong. :shrug:

[FloridaJudy]

22. I'm guessing that in this case

It means breaking the barrier of impartiality between the observer and the observed, but you're right. I've only encountered it before as a theater term.

[CorpGovActivist]

23. More or less right.

In the scientific context, it should be one-way glass.

Sort of like how actors are supposed to treat the audience, only standing on the other side.

- Dave

[hunter]

17. We should stop "anthropomorphizing" people too, maybe?

I loathe the bullshit that anthropomorphizing animals somehow impedes the validity of our observations, most especially in animals so closely related to us as chimpanzees.

Anyone who isn't a sociopath recognizes very distinct personalities in animals -- most especially social animals like rats, or dogs, or parrots, or elephants, or cats, or horses...

Denying the person-hood of animals other than human beings is simply a way of denying the horrors we inflict on other species.

[yurbud]

19. any test of intelligence that apes fail many humans would fail too

Carl Sagan wrote a great essay on this called ''Beast abstract Not.''

I doubt that most football players have the vocabulary of Koko the signing gorilla, or Washoe the chimp that communicated with lexigrams.