What do you do when someone is blatantly racist?

[cbayer]

I was at a social event tonight and this guy was just over the top racist. And as always seems to happen, others let him go on and some even seemed to encourage him.

My impulse was to somehow try and correct him. But he was truly frightening and I did not want to rile him. My final decision was to just move away.

What do you do?

[DarkTirade]

1. As much as I'd like to think that I'd be willing to confront the person...

most of the time I find myself just walking away in disgust. Maybe I'm afraid of sinking down to their level and punching them in the snout if I confront them. :shrug:

[AlCzervik]

2. i only know one person that is like that and when he acts up i usually say."Eewwwwww"

he's my friends dad and he's a total prick to be honest. "Ewwwwww" is about as far as i go but i did tell my friend i'd rather see her out in public or at my house where her father is not and i never bring my daugheter to her house in case he's home.

[cbayer]

4. but what about a stranger or new aquaintance?

this guy was invited by people i like and respect. I just could not figure out how to respond to him.

and it's not just racism. it's all the ism's.

[AlCzervik]

8. if they're near me whether it's a stranger or someone i know they're getting "Ewwwwwww"

these people know and respect him, they need to recalibrate a bit. My friend's Dad is someone i know, not someone i respect at all, if i ever told you some of the racist bullshit he spouts you'd hate him.

[Oeditpus Rex]

13. I'd ask those people point-blank

"Why did you invite this ignorant son of a bitch?"

Then I'd disassociate myself from them until they gave me a satisfactory answer. I couldn't "like and respect" people who abet racists.

[AlCzervik]

16. seriously.

[cbayer]

24. What if you are not good friends with these people?

New friends, first time you've been to their house.

I don't expect a clear answer to this, I just wonder if there is a way to respond to this that will have a positive impact.

If there is none, then just walk away I guess.

[Oeditpus Rex]

28. That would make them easier to avoid (n/t)

[qb]

3. If it was a harmless idiot, I would say something...

but I think it was prudent of you to avoid the frightening guy.

[cbayer]

6. You know, looking back at it

what i did was speak quietly and privately to my friends. I told THEM what i thought of him. so i undermined him, but with subterfuge. do you think that is acceptable if i am not willing to confront him head on?

[qb]

14. Of course it's acceptable. You followed your instincts and didn't provoke a "frightening" person.

You did the wise thing.

[Quantess]

15. Yes. (no text)

[SPKrazy]

5. Let him be

don't encourage him

leave if it seems like others are condoning it.

Speak out if that is what you feel comfortable doing, but if alcohol is involved, I'd move on... disagreements rarely are solved rationally when folk have been drinking much.

[cbayer]

11. Alcohol was involved and he is a viet nam vet.

So i agree that walking away was the best option.

I live in a very small town. Do you think there is anything to be gained by approaching him privately and telling him what I think?

Or should I just let him be? He was so fricking offensive.

[SPKrazy]

18. hard to say

if he is approachable, maybe, but the fact is that people like that have been approached many times and are likely to have formed hard and fast opinions for the most part.

again it is up to you, what your relationship is with him, and what your comfort level is.

I tend to think it ultimately would do no good, but it might make you feel good to say something which would likely be the only benefit. That is a benefit worthy of doing it if you think it would make you feel better.

otherwise

let him be

he may have ptsd and such i dunno

[skater314159]

20. My advise

is to avoid him like the plague.

Can you avoid social contact with him? That's probably best for YOUR sanity and mental, spiritual and physical wellbeing. (Why do you need stress and all the -isms in your life?)

I don't think you will gain ANYTHING by approching him - except bad vibes and a lot of stress; if he could be open minded or get past his bigotry, he would. He is an adult, and he is responsible for his thoughts and actions, you aren't.

He's fucking offensive. Avoid him like an offensive hate-plague.

[cbayer]

26. Right, that's my delimma.

Do I have an opportunity here to make a difference?

Probably not.

And if i don't, then why put myself in a position of being harmed by him.

On the other hand, I do feel I did the right thing by talking him down with other people at the party.

But I feel like a coward talking behind someone's back. I should have the courage to look him in the face and say whatever i have to say.

And you know what, he left. I think he knew that he did not have a receptive audience and he left.

[skater314159]

48. I say you did exactly the right thing.

You pointed out where his behaviour/speech was incorrect, and you stood up to him. He probably is used to using his "veteran" status as a means to gain an audience. People are probably less likely to tell him off BECAUSE he is a vet, and they feel that they should respect him - which in this case is an enabling action. He also probably feels that he is entitled to spout his garbage, and uses militaristic/conservative propaganda to feed this entitlement and to minimise anyone/anything who disagrees with him (probably using the labels "liberal", "feminist", "faggot", "commie", etc.).

It is good that you confronted him in a group, with others around, as confronting people like this by yourself will often result in a)them denying they said whatever was offensive b)them just saying you are one of those "label"s above and can't stand "the truth" or even WORSE c)the person attacking you or losing it on you (that IS a lot of anger in there, and it's looking for a way out!).

You did EXACTLY the right thing. The fact that he left shows that he didn't get what he really wanted - validation and social acceptance. Haters like him RELY on people being too "kind", "polite", or "shocked" to confront him, and in his mind he interprets this silence as affirmation and agreement - when it is usually the opposite. You established boundaries, and told him that he had crossed them.

You do have the courage to stand up to him - which you did at the party - but you also have the intelligence to recognise that you need support for what you had to go through. You've gotten that here, and from your friends IRL too... I look to your questions here as seeking support and affirmation, not "being a coward" or "talking behind someone's back".

You did a great job, and hopefully, by now all his bad vibes are gone from you. You now have a good idea of what to do the next time you confront a simliar situation, and you are now in a place where you can help others who have had to deal with his "festival of hate".

EDIT TO ADD: I think that it's good you asked for advise. Some of the hate and alientation/anomie that he feels is likely due to him not having support. If he could open up to someone (like a therapist) then he might be able to choose to give up that anger and his hate towards people... but that takes the ability to be vulnerable and weak.

People who act out of fear and hate usually fear being vulnerable... and I think that is his case... and only he can get him the help and support he needs. But THIS is the EXACT reason I think we need to make sure that ALL personell returning from Afghanistan and Iraq have "safe zones" where they can open up with others and find love and support. It will save many others mental, emotional and spiritual pain in the future.

[cbayer]

52. What a wonderful & thoughtful reply

Thank you so much. Your description is really eloquent and spot on. I agree that this person is really troubled and most likely has absolutely no resources to address his troubles. We live in a very small place with only occasional tele-visits with a psychiatrist and no therapy available.

And I can not voice how much I appreciated the support and guidance I got from this board last night. It was truly wonderful and enlightening.

We had a VN vet here for awhile who was doing work with returning vets. He had a trimaran and was taking small groups out for a week at a time to sail and talk and work together to do something positive. Unfortunately, he has moved on. But what a great guy. The lack of services for returning vets is horrifying and the suicide rate speaks for itself. What have we done?

So thank you again. And I will never hesitate to turn to this group if I need guidance or input.

[Solon]

7. Last person who did that to my face was forced to walk the 30 miles home...

last time I gave him a ride in my fucking car as well, last time I did him a favor as a co-worker or a friend.

I rarely have a temper, but put me in a room with a racist and I'll beat the shit out of them if given the chance.

[DarkTirade]

55. And that's exactly why I'm afraid of getting in someone's face about it...

I know there's a very good chance I'll get pissed off enough to do exactly that.

[Rosemary2205]

58. I ask them if their parents are related.

Even before I was a wheelie I was a small person. Huge assholes who want to start shit because I look black (I'm mixed race) and my husband is the whitest white man that ever lived - I had to pick my verbal battles - and Mr. Rosemary learned early on he does not score point with me if he gets physical. Though I did get myself arrested once confronting a racist cop who was throwing a young black man around, calling him a "n boy". I got the last laugh though. I have likewise got all up in the face of a black relative by marriage who wanted to make racist remarks about my husband's race.

[Breeze54]

9. I confront them... in public and loudly, if possible!

I'm not kidding. I have done it many times.

I love embarrassing the shit out of them!

But then again, I'm vindictive! :sarcasm:

"Just desserts". ;) And embarrassment works!

[Generic Brad]

36. That's how I handle it now

But for decades I would just wave it off, not stick my neck out there, and hate myself for my inaction. No more. We have no reason to feel guilty for speaking up for truth and justice. It is our inherent duty.

[cbayer]

37. Interestingly I would have no trouble standing up to a homophobe.

or a sexist. or a xenophobe. or an ageist.

None. I can't imagine a situation where I would hesitate to humiliate any of those people for a moment.

but racists seem more frightening for some reason.

maybe it's just me.

[Breeze54]

40. They're just bullies but

if in a large group, then proceed with caution. ;)

[Jamastiene]

10. I let them go on a while and point out to them that

I'm mixed race. I appear mostly white/some Native American Indian, and I do have some African American ancestors. People assume I'm "white" and talk shit. I have also had people talk shit about GLBT people to me because they assume I am straight too.

A long time ago, I wouldn't say anything and just did what you were talking about doing. It IS very very uncomfortable. Now, I let them dig their grave deeper and deeper with their machismo tongues and then when it's my turn to answer something they say, I always calmly point out that I am one of those people they are talking about and gracefully walk away all the while giggling under my breath at how embarrassed I know they are. And they usually are, whether they'll admit it or not. It makes them think twice next time they plan on spewing some bile like that. That's about all it does, but I honestly don't know what else to do.

[cbayer]

19. I like that.

I think you are right. If you can bring it down to a personal level and look someone in the eye, it is much harder for them to justify their hatred.

This guy could not have really justified hating me. So if I told him that my child or my husband or my grand-parent were african-american and I found his talk hurtful, I don't think he could have defended himself at all.

[Robeson]

12. I usually make my own views known, then I leave them to their own....

...company.

I find it difficult to keep my mouth shut. I've always felt that if someone can express their racist feelings, I can express my anti-racist feelings.

[Flaxbee]

17. "Alllll right! Who brought the bigot to the party?"

"You do realize you are a complete, utter ignorant ass, don't you?"

Probably what I'd do if I didn't think the guy would attack me or my husband... I have a tendency to verbally go after assholes, but unfortunately, they usually look at my husband and attack him instead of me.

So, I usually just move away.

[NOLALady]

21. I would probably confront them, then leave.

If the event was held at someone's home, I would never return unless the host apologized.

[cbayer]

29. Hey NOLA lady! I am a NOLA lady as well.

And talk about conflicts about race and racists. Nothing like NOLA to exemplify that.

NOLA is one of the most integrated and segregated places in the country.

[NOLALady]

41. Hey Cher.

Genealogy is my hobby.

Not only are they integrated and segregated, most of them are related. Long was right when he said you could feed pure Louisianians with a cup of rice and a pound of red beans.

I've been on the Northshore for 20 years, but New Orleans is my home.

[flvegan]

22. Well, I'm kind of an outspoken type of asshole with a real low tolerance.

So I'd have to ask what "blatantly racist" is, exactly before I answered. My worry for "riling" is equally low, however, having seen your post that this person was a Vietnam vet, I might not be so quick to be a dick, depending.

[cbayer]

35. Ok you want details?

He was talking about black/white conflicts in the forces in Viet Nam.

He talked about conflict he got in to with other soldiers while he was there. He used the words "cocked and loaded" and described putting a gun to a fellow soldiers head.

He called them uppity, full of themselves and in need of a lesson. He called them niggers. And he said that he should have killed them. His fellow soldiers.

He talked about how Black Power got stared there and how he and his white comrades should have shut them down right then and there.

Now, I wasn't in Viet Nam and I figure it was a pretty intense experience.

Do you think that his experience in Viet Nam accounts for what he was saying?

[flvegan]

39. No, I don't think so.

Sounds like typical hate speak, fueled by something that others might buy into.

I wasn't there, and I won't pretend to get it, but hatred for your brother soldier seems to transcend survival.

[NOLALady]

43. No.

He had that mindset before he went to Nam.

[struggle4progress]

23. Depends on context and how I feel about the person

If folk say stuff that strikes me as borderline racist but I suspect it's unconscious/unintended, teachable, and not motivated by hatred, I tend to disagree without using any negative words: that is, I try to say something that sounds positive but contradicts the stereotype I'm hearing

If it's conscious but might be teachable (for example, racist jokes from someone who otherwise wouldn't strike me as a total shithead), I may first try exhibiting absolutely no interest in such remarks while maintaining the interaction: this can be useful in one-on-one conversation but has a limited applicability in social settings

If it's consciously confrontational, response really depends on context. If there is no real social context, I'm unlikely to interact with the person again, and don't feel there's a chance-in-hell of making any progress, the conversation is over and I'm outta there. If there is a social context, then response depends on whether there is any reason to try to make some point, and a large range of different responses are possible, including humor that flies over the idiot's head, careful intellectual warfare ("the concept race is an outdated, unscientific superstitution"), appeal to ethical/religious principles, ridicule, and so on

There is often much to recommend an approach along the following lines:

Remembering Ann Richards
Posted on Sep 15, 2006
By Molly Ivins

... At a long-ago political do at Scholz Garten in Austin, everybody who was anybody was there meetin’ and greetin’ at a furious pace. A group of us got the tired feet and went to lean our butts against a table at the back wall of the bar. Perched like birds in a row were Bob Bullock, then state comptroller; moi; Charles Miles, the head of Bullock’s personnel department; and Ms. Ann Richards. Bullock, 20 years in Texas politics, knew every sorry, no good sumbitch in the entire state. Some old racist judge from East Texas came up to him: “Bob, my boy, how are you?”

Bullock said, “Judge, I’d like you to meet my friends: This is Molly Ivins with the Texas Observer.”

The judge peered up at me and said, “How yew, little lady?”

Bullock, “And this is Charles Miles, the head of my personnel department.” Miles, who is black, stuck out his hand, and the judge got an expression on his face as though he had just stepped into a fresh cowpie. He reached out and touched Charlie’s palm with one finger, while turning eagerly to the pretty, blond, blue-eyed Ann Richards. “And who is this lovely lady?”

Ann beamed and replied, “I am Mrs. Miles.” ...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/20060915_molly_ivins_remembering_ann_richards/

[LeftyMom]

25. I say something, but I don't have enough fear or tact for my own good sometimes.

Still, I'd rather risk an assbeating than risk the loss of my self respect.

[Oeditpus Rex]

30. 'Don't you assholes have anything better to do

than drive around in a parking lot? And what's this shit with the 'boom boom' bass? Losers!"



:P

[LeftyMom]

31. Fucking A, is that an '89 Caprice?

Why did you put thousand dollar rims on a $600 car?

[Oeditpus Rex]

33. ...

:rofl:



:hug:

[lligrd]

42. I'm With You

Sometimes I think I should have more sense but my outrage knows no bounds.

[barb162]

27. If they're threatening, don't confront.

If they're not threatening, confront them.

[Madrone]

32. Well, if they don't know you very well and there's not much chance of them ever doing so-

That's when you say: "EXCUSE me, but my children are bi-racial and I find what you are saying beyond horrifying!!" - then you turn around and walk away while everyone looks at the racist like the biggest asshole on earth!! :D

Or not ;)

Honestly, it depends on the situation - I will not hesitate to call someone out, but there are times that it will obviously not be productive and may make things worse. Sounds like you fell on the latter side this time - that doesn't make you a bad person.

[LeftyFingerPop]

Look them in the eye, and with a very slight smile...

say "change your tone". If they try to laugh it off, lose the smile, touch their forearm, glare at them, and say "I said change your tone". Their embarrassment will usually get them to stop.

[datasuspect]

49. you're assuming they have shame

telling ignorant people what to do never ends well.

[LeftyFingerPop]

50. Your statement has some merit, however...

performing this action at a party, or where ever, will essentially stop everyone in their tracks. The people that were laughing with him will suddenly stop their chuckling, and everyone will be looking at just the two of you.

Then, you can say something like..."you are a bigot, and this shit isn't funny, and you have offended me".

Now, one of two things will happen...you will get some people on your side saying "hey, he's right Joe, lighten up on the racist talk"....or, people will side against you and start to challenge you.

If you are challenged, you can just let go of the guys arm and say..."I don't think I need to be here with people who think like this", then you can simply walk away.

My point here is this... you have shown strength by taking a stand, and you have done it smartly without getting your ass kicked. And more than likely, you have made at least a few people think.

[Shine]

34. It depends on how much energy I have in the moment to get into it

I think what you did was just fine, for the record....esp. if the guy was "frightening", as you said.

[cbayer]

38. Thanks. I feel ok about it.

And I really appreciate the conversation I have had here.

[BlueIris]

44. My first reaction is still to call them out on it, then bail if they don't apologize.

Yes, I have even done that in a workplace (to a boss). That's just...what I feel I have to do.

[The Animator]

45. This is when having a black belt in sarcasm really comes in handy...

I start hearing racist comments and I'll probably counter with one of the following.

"Hey Bubba, your robe is showing."
"Hey watch the language, you kiss your sheep with that mouth?"
"The Grandmaster called, he said the cross needs more lighter fluid."
mimmick the sound of the dueling bangos from Deliverance.
"Such hateful things to come outta sucha purty mouth."
"Your sister called, she wants a divorce... something about a sheep..."
"Nice post, Hilter."

Nothing enrages me faster than someone attacking another human being because they're different. I grew up being the most "different" kid in school. I was the butt of every joke, I was the mark of choice for every bully. I may not know what it's like to be black, but I know what it's like to be targeted because of something that sets you apart from everyone else.

Growing up the way I did has hardened me. I am no longer easily intimidated. I am longer willing to let things slide. Somebody pisses me off, they going to know about it ESPECIALLY if they're scary. Schoolyard rules, if a gang of thugs get you cornered, you go after the biggest, meanest looking sonovabitch in the group, and kick the living shit out of him... the rest of them will leave you alone, because they will know that you are not afraid of them. I am not afraid anymore.

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

46. I'd ignore him...

And go find someone more open-minded to talk with. You made the right move.

[philosophie_en_rose]

47. It depends. A "WTF" look, at minimum.

I wouldn't risk my safety to tell an idiot off, but I also think most blatant racists are bullies that thrive on making people too afraid to say anything.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably give him a dirty look and say something brief like "that's sick" or "that's terrible." Then, I'd find someone better to speak with.

[intaglio]

51. You challenge him or her, pleasantly and loudly

You will be surprised how often, once the ball is set rolling, how many will back you up

[MrSlayer]

53. I usually smack them down verbally.

I have quite the sharp tongue. I try to infuriate them to the point that they pyhsically attack me so I can give them what they really deserve. That rarely happens though, usually after the whole room is laughing at them they slink away or change the subject. I don't let that shit pass.

[Zephyrbird]

54. I say...

"Who says man didn't evolve from apes!?" and I walk away. Maybe the churl will get it, maybe not. It works on a couple levels, because usually it's a conservative ass who doesn't believe in evolution, either. Works well, IMO. Usually other people around him/her laugh, which embarrasses the fool also.

No offense to apes, chimps, or other simian members of the world.


Zephyr

[Skittles]

56. I call them out, kick their ass

L O U D L Y

[Beausoir]

57. Unfortunately, I am always ALWAYS shocked speechless. I hate that.

I wish I was one of those people who could just immediately cock-punch those who deserve it, but I am always immobilized for like..a minute..and then my chance is gone.

And then, I spend the next few days kicking myself in the ass for being so slow on my feet.

Sad but true.

[Hosnon]

59. I usually respond with absolute astonishment...like s/he is crazy for saying that.

Much the same way I react when someone asks me for whom I'm voting.