Why did they have to redeem Darth Vader?

[DerekG]

I watched The Empire Strikes Back this morning, and I'll be damned if that iteration of Vader wasn't one of the great villains of cinema. He charges through that film like a demon; he almost makes you see the appeal and beauty of totalitarianism. Alas, in Return of the Muppets, he's eating Palpatine's doggy biscuits and eventually gets his angel wings.

What a waste. The big guy deserved better.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

1. If DV was truly evil,

he would have killed Luke without a second thought.

[DerekG]

2. He needed Luke to help him waste the Old Man

It wasn't compassion; it was opportunity knocking.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

3. No, it wasn't compassion...It was arrogance...

The Big Man wanted father and son to rule the galaxy. But there was something else there...familial pride...love.

[DerekG]

4. "Familial pride." That, I'll grant you

Still, that ROTJ redemption doesn't quite ring true. According to Empire producer Gary Kurtz, the plan originally was to have Vader orchestrate a coup against Palpatine, rather than being his hopeless slave. This power struggle would've made for a more involving finale.

[krispos42]

5. He had to go PC...

And look what happened to him.

[ChazII]

13. Giggles.... so not scary or

intimidating. DV sanitized just like fairy tales.

[Orsino]

6. Ask rather why he had to be redeemed...

...by such a whiny brat of a son.

Oh, my God! I've just figured out why Hayden Christiansen was cast. It explains everything.

[Whoa_Nelly]

7. To see the true Darth Vader

You need to visit the youtube in my sig line ;)

[DS1]

8. wow

first time Eddie's really made me laugh

[Whoa_Nelly]

19. Just HAD to put the vid in my sig line

am always changing out the vids and pics to go with them in my sig every week or so, and this one really had me giggling :D

[leeroysphitz]

17. Sir Lord Baron Von Vaderham.... LOL. n/t

[fizzgig]

18. one of my favorite bits

:rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

9. Because deep down...he's a softy.

[HawkerHurricane]

10. I don't know.

He was a whiny brat from the beginning. Couldn't be bothered about his mother until he started having 'bad dreams'. Hey, Anni! How about you go rescue her from slavery! Why'd you forget about her for ten years! Then he had bad dreams about his wife. Couldn't be bothered to do anything like, say, find a good Ob/Gyn. (And given the tech level, how does any woman get pregnant 'on accident'?) Then, when she complains about him overthrowing the government, he kills her. Spoiled brat!

Now, the prequal trilogy establishes that he's a evil twit. In epIV, he helps murder a couple billion people on Aldaran. EpV, he tortures people and maims his own son. EpVI, he plots to murder more people and betrays his son to the Emperor, threatens to torture his daughter to get his son to come out and fight, and then betrays the man for whom he killed billions to save his son's life...

And he's redeemed and gets to go to Jedi heaven? Hell, no! He's a selfish son of a bitch who deserves whatever the Jedi call hell.

Lucas wants me to feel sympathy for him? Sorry, doesn't work. After watching 'Return of the Jedi' the first time way back when, I thought he got off light. After watching the prequal trio, I was sure of it.

[Dr. Strange]

11. As a side note, the Jedi version of hell...

is being reincarnated as Jar-Jar Binx.

[HawkerHurricane]

12. Ok...

Maybe he wasn't *that* evil...
What's the Jedi version of purgatory?

[Dr. Strange]

16. I think purgatory was spending a month serving as Jabba's thong.

[DerekG]

20. Thank you

He throws some old geezer down a shaft and gets to party in the afterlife.

If I were Henry Kissinger, I'd be pulling cats out of trees pronto.

[ReformedChris]

14. I think Lucas' greatest mistake in the Prequels was making viewers NOT want DV redeemed in the end..

He brutally killed Padawan Children and turned to the Dark Side within 2 lines. I don't think Lucas did a really good job showing WHY the audience would want to see Anakin/Vader redeemed. Anakin was not a sympathetic character at all in any of the movies and while you understand his motivations to save his wife, it still comes off to me that he never deserved redemption. I was a big proponent of Vader walking into the Council Chamber and telling the children "everything is going to be all right" and then walking out and allowing the storm troopers to do the deed. It would have shown Anakin's hesitation. I think Vader deserved more humanity in the end by letting him be the hesitant villian, not the total bitch to Palpatine.

[rug]

15. Go to GDP They find Hillary irredeemable.

[billyskank]

21. Because redemption is a more powerful story than destroying evil.

You know all that religious stuff, such as "heaven rejoiceth when a sinner repenteth"? It's not all nonsense for mushy-brained idiots who failed science class. There is some important stuff in there. Killing the bad guy, that makes for an ending. But getting the bad guy to see the error of his ways and turn into a good guy; that's much stronger.

[NashVegas]

22. Getting the Bad Guy To See The Error of His Ways Right Before He Bites It

Is the stuff great stories are made of :0