You know what? Tough girls wear heels

[Ava]

Not only do they kill the feet, but they also cause injuries. For example, I was in the parking lot of the grocery store today after getting off work and I was still wearing my work clothes and heels. I didn't notice a dent in ground and of course whenever my heel hit it i totally ate asphalt. now i have a very sore, scraped, and bandaged up knee. i manage to survive this without shedding a tear, saying a curse word, or acting at all hurt. I just calmly walked into the store with a bloody knee, bought bandages and what i was there to buy originally, and left to go home and tend to my new wound.

the moral of this.. tough girls wear heels, and i'm a klutz.

[lightningandsnow]

1. Damn!

I can't wear heels at all... I literally cannot balance in them. I'd fall flat on my face, and it wouldn't take long, either.

[Ava]

2. i wear them to work everyday

i use to not be able to walk in them either, lol.. but i've adapted. today i completely wiped out though.. damn old parking lots are a threat! :rofl:

[DarkTirade]

3. I've got a great sense of balance, I took karate for a few years and now I ice skate

and I'm very strong and in control of my body.

That being said, there's no fucking way I could walk in heels without stomping around clumsily and/or falling on my ass.

I don't know how women do it. It's not natural. It doesn't seem right.

And to be honest, I don't find women wearing heels to be all that attractive. I prefer the human form how its intended, not stretched in weird ways to try and accentuate certain parts. Which is basically what heels are for.

[Ava]

4. women don't wear heels for attraction purposes

if you think that then you are sadly mistaken ;)

women wear heels for themselves to just feel tall, pretty, and good about themselves. it's not about looking good for others as much as look good for yourself. ;)

as for me i wear them for work but as soon as i get home i'm either in flats, flip flops, tennis shoes, or my favorite.. barefoot.

besides.. as someone who is 5'6 i enjoy occasionally being 5'8. ;)

[DarkTirade]

6. I've dated girls who wore tall shoes for that reason.

One wore heels, the other just wore big clunky tall gothy boots.

Guess which one ended up taking her shoes off because they were killing her feet halfway through every date? :P

[Ava]

7. pffft.. like i said.. tough girls wear heels

wimpy girls take them off :rofl:

just kidding ;)

[DarkTirade]

9. It was rather odd dating her though.

Only girl I've ever dated who was close to my height. She was 5'9 1/2. I'm 5'10. So we'd start out a date with her being taller than me... then halfway through the date she'd be barefoot so I'd be at least an inch taller than her all of a sudden. :P

Whereas the other one was barely 5 feet tall, so she'd vary between 5 and 5'2ish depending on what shoes she was wearing. Not much a difference from a viewpoint 8-10 inches higher.

[noamnety]

39. Can you look this over again?

"women don't wear heels for attraction purposes"

"women wear heels for themselves to just feel ... pretty ..."

It sounds like you've internalized the message that women look pretty in heels. I'm guessing you haven't internalized the message that men look pretty in heels.

Why do you suppose that is? Where do you think those messages came from?

[Ava]

41. methinks someone is reading into what was meant to be a fun topic waaay too much

this isn't GD:P

:hide:


joking aside i like wearing heels.. they make me feel pretty and it isn't about attraction of the opposite sex as much as feeling good about myself.

i like my heels.. i also like my sneakers and flip flops. got a problem with that?

[noamnety]

48. No, I don't have a problem with it at all.

I am saying something because I hold out hope that you'll end up being a strong feminist voice in addition to being a strong anti-war voice.

That isn't necessarily incompatible with wearing high heels.

I do think it's necessary though to be willing to ask ourselves tough questions about why things in our culture are considered "pretty" or desirable when they are harmful to women. It's the defense of the institutional sexism and unwillingness to analyze it, not the decision to wear certain shoes or not, than concerns me.

So you know, I hear a bit of denial in the ideas (paraphrased) that: "I'm just as likely to fall down wearing flat shoes" or "they don't do any real harm" and in my head that translates to all kinds of other similar statements. "Iraq is as safe as California - heck you could get killed driving a car this morning" or "I don't think depleted uranium/smoking/etc is all that bad - heck, I know someone who got lung cancer and they weren't exposed to DU/never smoked."

If you understood the history of why women, not men, wear shoes that deform us and limit our mobility, and you understood the ramifications of it, and decided - despite that - that you want to wear them because (insert reasons) ... I wouldn't be sitting here frowning in the same way. You're kind of missing the "analysis" part of the thought process here, and instead you're hung up on the cultural message as if it was created out of thin air, landed in your lap, and now *bam* you think you look pretty in heels like that happened without a history.

In the end, you'll be a little pissed at me for making it an issue, that's okay. But there's a chance you'll also start to make the connections between oppression, patriarchy, domination and war, and the better you understand each of those, the better you'll understand why we react to conflict with oppression.

[Ava]

52. how does wearing high heels NOT make me a feminist?

i AM a strong feminist voice. i am a feminist.


as i said.. i like to feel good about myself and look good... i think that is a good thing. i don't do it for others, i do it for myself.

sorry, i don't think i'm going to make a connection between oppression, patriarchy, domination and war, and high heels.

i'm a high heeled feminist. that's what i am. you be what you want to be but don't criticize me for being what i am.

[noamnety]

55. I think you read past my point.

I wrote: That isn't necessarily incompatible with wearing high heels.

You responded: How does wearing high heels NOT make me a feminist?

You didn't get what I was saying.

Does this make sense? "I do think it's necessary though to be willing to ask ourselves tough questions about why things in our culture are considered "pretty" or desirable when they are harmful to women. It's the defense of the institutional sexism and unwillingness to analyze it, not the decision to wear certain shoes or not, that concerns me." (Admittedly it would have been easier to understand without my atrocious typos, sorry about that.)

If you can crack that code, you'll understand the connections. Have you ever read up on the history of why we did foot binding in some parts of the world, and how that relates to the concept of privilege?

[Ava]

56. you obviously didn't my point

"as i said.. i like to feel good about myself and look good... i think that is a good thing. i don't do it for others, i do it for myself."

i'm not "defending institutional sexism".. i'm making the choice to wear something i want because i want to.. as a matter of fact that is the opposite of sexist.

you seem to think that any woman that dresses up, wears heels, make-up, or just does her best to look good is going it for a man.. that in itself is sexist. why can't a woman want to dress up and look good without being criticized or pitied for being a "victim of sexism" when in fact she is taking control of her own self and choosing to dress as she wishes.

[noamnety]

57. No, that's not what I've said at all.

I certainly haven't said or implied you personally are doing this "for a man" - first off, I wouldn't say that because it's a very heterosexist assumption to start with. I've said straight out the issue is not that you are wearing heels. Hell, most women do and I have. I don't now, they wrecked my feet, but I have in the past. You know that gulf march from Alabama to New Orleans two years ago? I'm guessing you heard about it. I almost didn't go on it because of the damage to my feet. It's crazy to be missing out on experiences like that ... and for what purpose, you know? I'm in my early 40's, too young to be missing out on life because of what I thought made me pretty 20 years ago.

Anyway, that's my issue to deal with now. I've said several times the issue is not restricting what you want to wear, but the unwillingness to critique a system.

I'm asking you to come at this from a historical perspective - which sometimes gives us insight into the systems we live in.

Do you understand the connection between foot binding and privilege/class? Have you ever read anything about that?

[DemoTex]

5. Fear not, "heels" were invented by orthopedic surgeons.

So were skate boards. Know what I mean?

[Redstone]

8. Let me tell you something, young lady:

When I first met Mrs R, she had ugly feet.

She was an absolutely stunning woman, from her head down to, well, just short of her toes. That point was where the stunningness stopped.

Years of wearing "business heels" had left her toes twisted, bent, deformed, and covered with calluses (or, as the commercials refer to them, 'corns').

But guess what? Only a couple of years after she stopped wearing those torture shoes (in her case, because of becoming pregnant, and that when she was in her forties), her feet changed. No more calluses. No more deformed toes.

And most important of all, no more pain in her feet.

Don't go down that same road, OK?

Redstone

[Ava]

10. sorry, i'm sticking to my heels

most of mine are very comfortable and fit well. if my heels start to hurt me too much i take them off and i don't buys heels that are uncomfortable and don't fit well. as for my "tough girls wear heels" quote it was more of a joke and a way to laugh off my klutziness. ;)

[Redstone]

13. No need to apologize. Don't you know me better than that by now?

Redstone

[Flaxbee]

20. sounds like you keep the heels at about 2-3 inches, which is OK

two inches is best - and still easy to balance, even if the heels are kitten heels (I don't think 2 inches qualifies as 'stiletto'). I like heels, too - and when I worked in a very aggressive field I also liked going from 5'7" to 5'10" - gave me a certain psychological advantage.

Now that I'm out of cutthroat work, I still like the extra boost, though I have sworn off the super-high heels 3.5" and beyond, for the reasons Redstone mentioned - too much pain. But my husband is 6'4", and I like cruising around at 5'9" rather than 5'7".

[DaDooRonRon]

15. Well, my wife is in her mid-50's

and still wears 3 1/2" and (sometimes) 4" business heels.

Her feet are fine, although she can't do the full 10 hour days anymore.

Hell, neither can I.

P.S. She works in upper management, and has great legs. :)

[Redstone]

18. Dude. It's OK with me if you want to measure the heels of your wife's shoe to the nearest

half-inch.

And to specify those precisely-measured heels as being "business heels" as opposed to, Christ, I don't know what other kinds of women's shoe heels there are, I can't understand that, because I in fact did't know until just now that there even WAS such as thing as "business heels" attached to women's shoes.

But we all have our own special interests, and I'll not question the legitimacy of anyone else's (such as women's-shoe-heels) even though I may not share them.

Redstone

[DaDooRonRon]

51. Well, YOU called them "business heels",

so I just went with it.

With regards to them, I ttink it's pretty common for all heels to be measured in terms of height. Sorry.

Glad to hear your wife's feet are fine, BTW.

[siligut]

11. Honey girl, you’re showing your muscle.

There is unquestionably something about heels,uneven pavement be damned!

[Ava]

12. uneven pavement is a threat to america

:P

[siligut]

16. You said it!

Okay, now I have to go into my “America makes you safe theory”! On second thought, that stuff doesn’t have any place in your heels thread, damn, I am pleased about the heels.

[Sannum]

14. Girl after my own heart!

I love my heels and I am not giving them up!

I am 5'3...i feel like a child if I don't have a few inches under me:)

[Ava]

17. i hear you!

i'm 5'6 but i work with women who are 5'8 without heels, so i enjoy being 5'8 or 5'9 on some days ;)

[Ava]

19. i just took my bandages off to check my injury

not a pretty sight :rofl:

[Book Lover]

21. heels are a tool of the man

based on this great bumpersticker... http://www.flickr.com/photos/jameth/2299313908/

[crim son]

22. Smart girls with rheumatoid arthritis don't

but they wish they could, 'cause then they'd tower over everybody.


I'm sorry about you knee! I prescribe slippers and warm milk for a quick cure. :P

[Manifestor_of_Light]

23. I can't wear heels -- too much pain.

I used to wear sneakers to work so I wouldn't kill myself walking to work downtown, and then change into my good Italian dress shoes indoors, which had low heels or were flat.

I'm short and can't wear heels. If somebody can't deal with my lack of height, that's too bad. Now if I attempt to wear anything with more than a one inch heel, I literally am hobbling.

Platforms are better than regular heels because they give your feet more support. However, most of them don't bend. I've had some crepe rubber soled platforms in the past that I could stand for a while.

Be careful Ava!!!

[yellowdogintexas]

27. same here, several old foot injuries, bad knee, arthritis,

I have one pair of shoes I can manage to wear for really dressup purposes. Otherwise it is sneakers for me

[Manifestor_of_Light]

62. I don't have any of those conditions and STILL can't wear heels!

Sorry to hear about your arthritis and injuries.

[pokerfan]

24. Ginger did everything Fred did

only backwards and in heels.

[Roon]

25. My ex lover used to practice wearing heels

while cleaning house.

[Skittles]

26. no, tough gals wear boots

[Aristus]

31. That's so they can KICK ASSES!

:patriot:

[youthere]

53. REALLY tough gals wear high heeled boots!

:rofl:

[noamnety]

28. From the Mayo Clinic

Foot problems associated with high heels

* Corns and calluses. Thick, hardened layers of skin develop in areas of friction between your shoe and your foot. Painful rubbing can occur from wearing a high heel that slides your foot forward in your shoe or from a too-narrow toe box that creates uncomfortable pressure points on your foot.
* Toenail problems. Constant pressure on your toes and nail beds from being forced against the front of your shoe by a high heel can lead to nail fungus and ingrown toenails.
* Hammertoe. When your toes are forced against the front of your shoe, an unnatural bending of your toes results. This can lead to hammertoe — a deformity in which the toe curls at the middle joint. Your toes may press against the top of the toe box of your shoe, causing pain and pressure.
* Bunions. Tightfitting shoes may worsen bunions — bony bumps that form on the joint at the base of your big toe. Bunions can also occur on the joint of your little toe (bunionettes). Experts disagree on whether tightfitting, pointy-toed, high-heeled shoes cause bunions or bunionettes, but such shoes can exacerbate an already existing problem.
* Tight heel cords. If you wear high heels all the time, you risk tightening and shortening your Achilles tendon — the strong, fibrous cord that connects your calf muscle to your heel bone. Your Achilles tendon helps you point your foot downward, rise on your toes and push off as you walk. Wearing high heels prevents your heel bones from regularly coming in contact with the ground, which in turn keeps your Achilles tendon from fully stretching. Over time, your Achilles tendons contract to the point that you no longer feel comfortable wearing flat shoes.
* Pump bump. Also known as Haglund's deformity, this bony enlargement on the back of your heel can become aggravated by the rigid backs or straps of high heels. Redness, pain and inflammation of the soft tissues surrounding the pump bump result. Heredity may play a role in developing Haglund's deformity, but wearing high heels can worsen the condition.
* Neuromas. A growth of nerve tissue — known as Morton's neuroma or plantar neuroma — can occur in your foot, most commonly between your third and fourth toes, as a result of wearing tightfitting shoes. A neuroma causes sharp, burning pain in the ball of your foot accompanied by stinging or numbness in your toes.
* Joint pain in the ball of the foot (metatarsalgia). High heels cause you to shift more weight to the ball of your foot, rather than distributing your weight over the entire foot. This causes increased pressure, strain and pain in your forefoot. Shoes with tightfitting toe boxes can lead to similar discomfort.
* Stress fractures. Tiny cracks in one of the bones of your foot — stress fractures — may result from the pressure high heels place on your forefoot.

These problems don't happen overnight, but rather develop over time. And it's not just your feet that are in jeopardy. High heels have also been linked to overworked or injured leg muscles, osteoarthritis of the knee and low back pain. You also risk ankle injuries if you lose your balance and fall off your high heels.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/foot-problems/WO00114

When you are older, you are going to need those feet. My dad's mom when she was older couldn't walk barefoot because her Achilles tendon would no longer reach the ground. At home she had to wear house slippers with heels.

My mom had surgery on her feet.

My doctor's been after me to have foot surgery.

The men in my family haven't had a problem with their feet. The surgery costs thousands, and leaves you in a cast for an ungodly amount of time. It doesn't make you feel "tough" to need help getting to a toilet. I guess you've already experienced one of those problems, as young as you are - the ankles injuries mentioned at the end. You're too young to see most of the effects yet. It's one of those things that catches up with you over time. But maybe it's worth contemplating the social forces that cause us to think it's just "natural" that women feel "good" in high heels.

[One_Life_To_Give]

35. Appears most injuries/deformities caused by fit issues

It appears most of what is being described is the result of an improper fit/design of the shoe. The toes are not designed to support the weight of the human body. If you can't stand in your heels and wiggle your toes then something is not right. Supporting the static weight of the body on the ball of the foot I wouldn't think should cause injuries. Although running in heels might cause injuries stress fractures if the ball of the foot cannot impact the ground sufficiently before the heel allowing for the absorption of the shock load.

Also concider that the heel height is not the sole measuremnt but also the size of the foot. A size 12 could wear a much higher heel than a size 4 for the same relative stress level on the foot. And then there's cowboy boots. Which for me have been the most comfortable shoes I've worn. 2.5 in heel and could wiggle me toes. :P

[noamnety]

38. Your post doesn't seem to be based on science.

Improperly fitted shoes make all foot problems worse, I agree with that point.

However, feet are not designed to support our weight or angle our feet in the way that heels force us to do. In all high heels, our feet are angled forward, the Achilles tendon is shortened, our hip alignment is altered from its natural state, and pressure on the foot is altered (forced downward and forward) as if we were walking downhill all the time. If you've ever gone hiking in a mountainy area with a backpack, you'll know what I'm talking about - walking downhill is not the same thing at all as walking flat.

Further more, a size 12 foot is generally a sign of a larger build than someone with a size 4 foot - meaning they are likely to be carrying more body weight, increasing the pressure per inch.

This is a pretty simple thing. Our bodies are not designed in a way that is compatible with shifting our heels above the levels of our toes.

I wish I knew why patriarchal societies so often have some asinine cultural value that entails altering women's feet to make them less mobile.

[One_Life_To_Give]

40. Who knows why the Queen insisted on heels

Afterall they were only in Mens shoes originally.

The foot size or length versus heel height determines the angle of the shoe and hence the relative force on each axis applied to the foot. Also note I didn't say what the foot was designed for but what it likely can support. Maximum load/stress on the foot would probably be running and jumping historically either in persuit of or fleeing game/adversaries. What that same structure can comfortably bear under less stressful conditions will be different.

[noamnety]

49. Well, here's the thing.

The Mayo clinic says they are harmful, and they list a number of ways in which heels cause harm. It's possible you are an orthopedic surgeon who has studied the issue and reached a different conclusion. But that would sort of put you in the same position as one of the scientists who doesn't believe in global warming.

$3.5 billion spent annually in the United States for women’s foot surgeries. The American Society of Podiatric Sports Medicine reports that a 3-inch heel creates seven times more stress than a 1-inch heel. The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons’ rule of thumb: no more than three hours in 3-inch heels. Wearing heels causes your foot to slide forward, “redistributing your weight, creating unnatural pressure points and throwing your body’s natural alignment out of whack,” according to the Mayo Clinic.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173351291112&path=!living!health!&s=1037645509077

Pressure on the foot increases 22% with a 1 inch heel, 57% with a 2 inch heel, and 76% with a three inch heel. The Washington Post has a graphic with that, that also shows the difference in our spine's alignment - which is in part why I think people believe women look "prettier" in heels - because it forces us to stick our asses and chest out so they protrude more.
http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/images/2007/05/22/graphic_healthshoes.html

If you think they look cool, fine. Whatever. But please don't come in here spouting misinformation trying to prove that they don't cause damage to women, because that's false and harmful.

[One_Life_To_Give]

50. Didn't mean to imply they can't cause problems

Height of heel, hours of wear and activities while wearing all have consequences. Then there is the natural variability between people, where one person may have no problem while another will have immediate injury.

The interesting part is that several of the injuries being reported are not consistent with the areas of the foot that are intended to bear the weight of the body. Particularly they seem to be related to trying to support the weight of the body with the toes against the underside of the toe cap. (Like would happen in a 7in ballet heel.)

[noamnety]

58. It's amazing how spread through the body the injuries are, yep.

from odd parts of toes all the way up to spines, some from the pinchiness of the shoe (boxy toes in all shoe heights being far healthier), and some from unnatural weight distribution and posture. There was an episode of What Not To Wear (stupid stupid shoe) where a woman was holding up a slice of pizza in frustration, and pointing to the shape of it, and telling the camera her feet were not shaped like pizza. :)

Your earlier comment about nobility wearing heels is a good one, gnaws at the issue from both a class and gender perspective.

[kath]

64. "forces us to stick our asses and chest out so they protrude more." - EXACTLY. That's the reason

high heels are sometimes called "fuck me" shoes. Part of all the patriarchal bullshit foisted on women so that most of them are coerced into changing almost every aspect of their appearance, in expensive and/or painful and/or harmful ways. Only small numbers of us resist all (or most) of this bullshit. How come men are considered to look fine in an essentially "natural" state, without makeup, hairdos, hairdye, plucking, padding, uncomfortable undergarments (underwires?!! - give me a fuckin' break), uncomfortable weirdass shoes, and on and on and on??

[MissMillie]

29. Tough? I have a better adjective than that....

I'll pass thanks.

I can be tough in my running shoes.

[supernova]

32. Ugh. My Grandma's feet right there ^^^

x(

The only things missing are the right and left bunions so large, she had to cut holes in the sides of her shoes.

Um, no thanks. I'll wear high heels on an hourly basis and then come home and take them off right away.

Barefoot is what I prefer, but I settle sometimes for a pair of soft house clogs.

[Ava]

33. that person didn't wear the right kind of heels

which don't do that to your feet. all of my heels are very comfortable and i never wear heels that i have to cram my toes into.


btw, the tough girls wear heels quote was just me joking. lord i didn't know this was going to turn into a thread full of lectures about high heels :rofl: ;)

[miss_american_pie]

30. Accidents happen

I fell flat on my face the other day on a patch of ice. In flats. :)

Enjoy your shoes.

[Ava]

34. yup, i'm just as capable of falling in flats than in heels

as a matter of fact i fall more often when wearing flats than heels. ;)

haven't seen you around here in awhile! :hi:

[Taverner]

36. A high heel can make a mean weapon in a matter of seconds

Another reason tough girls wear em

[Ava]

37. that is very true

:rofl:

[grace0418]

42. No, girls who want to guarantee they'll need orthopedic surgery later in life wear heels.

I got into a discussion with all my mother's friends at her retirement community, and all of them said they wished they never wore heels. So maybe I don't look glamorous now (not that I could even with a pair of heels), but dammit, I'm going to be walking around much more easily when I'm 75.

[Ava]

43. as i've said several times in this thread

i was joking.. trying to make a joke of my klutziness + heels.

personally when i wear heels they are comfortable, supportive, and they fit right.


good lawd... i didn't know what i was getting myself into with this thread! :rofl:

[grace0418]

44. I know you were joking Ava.

And I don't think you're klutzy!

[Ava]

45. oh no.. i am klutzy

it runs in my family. as i said up a few posts above i fall more often in flats or no shoes than in heels(because i wear them more than heels).. i am capable of falling at any moment. as a matter of fact i could probably trip while sitting down. :rofl:

[grace0418]

46. LOL! I am too.

I guess I should've said that falling while wearing high heels doesn't automatically make one klutzy.

[Ava]

47. true dat

fall when wearing no shoes on flat ground makes one klutzy :rofl: ;)

[asteroid2003QQ47]

54. Proof that heels damage eyes!

I've sprained my eyeballs searching for klutzy.
http://www.funreports.com/fun/24-07-2007/1527-nude_blonde-0

[intaglio]

59. Kirsty MacColl - In these shoes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvaqVAFuLI

[noamnety]

60. another youtube - botox injections for our feet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh-uUKinsn4

craziness.

[Nikia]

61. I don't wear heels and think that they are anti women myself

When I read that women were 9 times as likely as men to have foot problems, mostly because of wearing high heels, I became convinced that they weren't for me and that their wear shouldn't be encouraged.

[GoneOffShore]

63. High heels 'may improve sex life'

Kind of a different take on the controversy.

High heels 'may improve sex life'

Wearing higher heels - although perhaps not stilettos - may improve your pelvic floor muscles and in doing so boost your sex life, a study suggests.
An Italian urologist and self-professed lover of the sexy shoe set out to prove that high heels were not as bad for women's health as some suggest.

The shoe has been linked to a range of problems - from corns to schizophrenia.

But in a letter to European Urology, Dr Maria Cerruto said her research showed it was time to stand up for the heel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7225828.stm