Before you see this on the news, and the place goes nucking futs, please read this.

[SKKY]

You will all probably see the video of the 3 marines throwing the puppy over the cliff in Iraq. It's been all over the news, and it's pretty horrific. There is no way anyone could justify doing such a thing, and these guys will get what they deserve. I just want everyone to understand that, whatever made these guys "lose it", they in no way represent the military or the people who proudly wake up every morning and put on the uniform. I have several fellow shipmates over there right now, and I will be over there myself before too long. I assure you, this kind of stuff makes us just as sick as it does anyone else. That's all. Thanks for listening. :rant:

[KitchenWitch]

1. I saw the video

And I certainly do not believe that all Marines are like that. There are assholes and sickos everywhere, including our military.

[DarkTirade]

2. I read about it, but couldn't bring myself to watch it.

Although I find it a bit ironic that people are making a bigger fuss about that than they do when bad things happen to the civilians in a war zone. :\

[BuelahWitch]

14. My take on that

Many people have pet dogs and cats that they feel are parts of their family. Dogs especially are very trusting.
Animal abuse to me is horrendous because my pets were and are my best friends. When I see or hear of someone abusing an animal, it's MY animal. Would I rather see someone throwing a human off a cliff? NO. It's just that animals feel so much more personal to me than other humans.

I suppose I'm not the only one to feel that way.

[Sugar Smack]

31. VERY good answer, classicfilmfan.

I could never see that footage and stay sane or "have perspective" about such a thing. People's reactions to it are for the most part visceral. I know mine is. The pure and absolute trust of a baby animal in the hands of a horrible human being one second and the next, being flung in utter terror to his death. I haven't seen the video but the story is nauseating.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

21. Animals and kids touch the tenderest spots in many hearts...

because they are the most innocent victims. There's nothing they can do to stop this war, and they're certainly not responsible for it. It's bad enough when they're killed or injured as a result of random gunfire or bombs; but when they're deliberately targeted to be the object of someone's cruelty, it's even worse.

[graywarrior]

3. I just posted about it in GD

I went mental when I saw it.

[SKKY]

6. We were absolutely flabbergasted by it...

...I can only think PTSD had something to do with it. Normal humans don't do such things. I still have trouble getting my brain around what I saw.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. People are filming these things to enjoy re-watching them...

What a world we've chosen to create.

And thanks for your service, als. It's good to know that there are real, decent people out there working for Democracy.

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Dear me. I've somehow chosen to watch it.

I want to be sick and cannot.

[Fox Mulder]

5. I hope someone throws that asshole off a cliff.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[SKKY]

12. That does seem to be the only justice, doesn't it?

[BarenakedLady]

7. I was blissfully unaware.

Until now.

x(

[SKKY]

8. I'm sorry...

...but I felt compelled to address it, being one of the few individuals on DU who make no secret about their current status in the Military. Things like this, right or wrong, reflect on me.

[BarenakedLady]

9. I know.

I would have heard about it sooner or later. I hope never to see it though.

I would never think badly of you. :hug:

[lost-in-nj]

10. hey you

there are fucking idiots in every bunch......

we know they are a very small, very maybe a club of 3....


I have never in my life
judged anyone by an asshole in their life

we know the majority rocks!!!!

and we know YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!

:hug: :hug: :hi:

[SKKY]

11. Yes, the vast majority are over there, just doing their job...

...waiting to get back home to their families and friends. Not doing horrific things like these sick bastards. And thank you very much for the kind words! :hi: :grouphug:

[Critters2]

13. People who are trained to kill don't see the value in a puppy's life.

Why would that surprise anyone?

Flame away, but the military is a vocation built on violence--even the threat of violence is a form of violence. That such people treat a living creature this way only seems logical.

[SKKY]

25. I don't agree with you. I'm trained to kill, and would do so if necessary...

...but to take a trusting, innocent puppy, and throw it off the cliff indicates something darker. Killing someone who is trying to kill you is one thing. This is something else entirely. It shows something that is clearly void in their souls.

[Critters2]

28. The Iraqis weren't trying to kill us, yet the US military invaded.

Let's be honest about what all war, and this war in particluar, is. We just don't get to see all the atrocities on youtube.

[BuelahWitch]

15. I can't watch it

Just reading about it makes me ill.

[tpsbmam]

16. Can't watch it....

and can't even get past the links to it fast enough. Total animal lover here who can work in an emergency room with no problem but just can't stomach animal abuse. Go figure.

I think most folks know that the folks who would do stuff like this are a tiny minority whether they're soldiers or not. Being a soldier in Iraq with all of the emotional & psychological ramifications of that and being treated like shit yourself by the Bush administration doesn't help, I'm sure.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

18. Rest assured that most already understand this...

I'm so sorry that news like this seems to reflect poorly on everyone else over there. And as horrible as this story is, I can't help thinking those marines responsible have seen and had to do things that twisted their psyches. I cannot imagine how tortured their minds must be to commit such an atrocity.

ALiberalSailor, please take very good care of yourself when you go, and know that we love and care about you. :hug::hug::hug:

[SKKY]

19. Thank you, and I will do so...

:hi: :hug:

[LadyoftheRabbits]

20. I can't watch that

It drives me crazy as it is, just knowing about it. But of course I don't see those morons as representative of all servicemen and women. I can't believe anyone could do something like that to a helpless little creature... :(

[Mike03]

22. Appreciate your post

I don't think I want to watch the video, but it has indeed been posted here.

[Dave_Fl_50]

23. I haven't een the video and I won't see it

[Mike03]

24. What are we going to do to heal the ones who are not like you; the ones who go nuts.

Because every single day, lately, there is some homicide or event related to vets, as we all expected. It's not their fault, but we need to figure out how to help them and safeguard us all.

[SKKY]

26. And that may very well be the true tragedy in all of this...

...we only hear about the people who die, or who are "damaged". Some of the deepest wounds are not visible.

[Mike03]

27. Deep wounds become visible, don't you think? NT

[SKKY]

30. Oh sure, they can...

...I don't know which is worse actually, now that you have me thinking about it. I think I'd rather lose a leg, or an arm, than have whatever these guys have.

[Critters2]

34. They've lost their consciences. And I'm not sure they took 'em over there with 'em. nt

[Mike03]

29. By the way, your post would seem to be very important, maybe important enough

to post in the GD forum. I mean, speaking as no expert on anything, your observations would seem to be very, very important.

[SKKY]

32. I posted on GrayWarrior's post...

...and linked to this one.

[mainegreen]

33. I have no intention of seeing the video and no intention of judging random people because of it.

[Midlodemocrat]

35. Well, I know for sure that there are more of 'you' in the armed services

than 'them'. You're a good one.

[SKKY]

36. Awwww you...

...:hug:

[Critters2]

37. I just saw it. I wish there were a way to keep from having my taxes

pay these fuckers' salaries. All of 'em. And I wish the worst of 'em would make a permanent home in Ft. Leavenworth.

[SKKY]

38. Well, perhaps this will give you some measure of satisfaction...

...these guys are likely to receive what we call "Non-judicial punishment" in accordance with the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). For something like this, they'll probably be reduced in rank to the next inferior paygrade, and they'll be placed on restriction for 60 days. They'll forfeit half of their monthly pay for 2 months, and then be processed for separation. I can't imagine a scenario where they would get anything other than a "Dishonorable Discharge". This is just my hunch.

[Critters2]

39. Thank you for making my point.

Please don't tell me the Marines don't approve of such things, and then, in the next breath, tell me that the worst that will happen is they MIGHT lose their jobs.

And thanks for reinforcing my opinion.

[SKKY]

40. What I'm telling you is that me, as a veteran, and everyone who watched the video...

...with me on the news today was appauled. 4 of those were Marines. Everyone, to a man, was sickened. You make whatever assumptions you want. I'm telling you what it is from the inside.

[Critters2]

41. And I'm telling you that the punishment for animal torture should be

more than losing one's job.

[SKKY]

42. And I'll concede the point...

...And they may very well spend time in Leavenworth. It depends on how far these individual's chain-of-command decides to push it. The scenario I gave you is a best-case. It could get much, much worse.

[Zephyrbird]

43. There are jerks everywhere.

Just so happens that was in the military, was caught on tape, and went around the web in 36 hours.

It is NOT indicative of the military being chock full of animal torturers; it IS indicative that animal torturers got into the military; just like they are here in the civilian population.

It was horrible, yes; but I for one don't think every service person is made of the same crap as those three.

Sick, sick, sick.

Zephyrx(

[Critters2]

44. What is this indicative of?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2955733&mesg_id=2955733

Turns out the dog tosser has lots of company. All on the US govt payroll.

[Aristus]

45. You probably know I'm a vet, Liberal Sailor, so you should know that I

don't view all service members as puppy-killers. Most are just regular people, like you and me. Hell, I was a tanker, trained to kill, and even expected to enjoy the killing. We were always subjected to dehumanized portrayals of whatever enemy we were expected to face. And in live-fire exercises, a lot of guys expressed a hyper-macho persona of being sexually aroused by the firing weapons. Although I served in the Gulf in 1991, I didn't serve in combat, so the idea of actually killing someone with an M1 tank or my personal weapon remains abstract for me. To this day, I don't know if I could go through with it. That goes for most of the guys I served with, even the ones who claimed to be aroused during live-fire. I expect it was just tough-talk.