So...who here knows anything about pianos?

[flvegan]

Short of Chopsticks, I don't play, nor do I think I've set eyes on one in a decade.

This is for a family member, as it turns out I have a good friend who is good friends with a piano dealer/tuner. She hasn't the space for a grand or baby grand, so I guess it will probably be an upright, yes? No? Things to look for, things to avoid?

Is a piano like a guitar that one should pick out themselves? Is a used piano a better idea than brand new? Downsides?

What does tuning a piano cost, as I guess I should figure that in as a yearly expense?

Thanks for any help!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. A full sized upright is good.

They have a fuller sound than the shorter ones, because they have a bigger soundboard.

There are several good brands from Japan such as Yamaha and Kawai.
Steinway is also good, if you have the money. They hold their value at resale, like a Mercedes Benz does.

Used can be just as good as new, if the piano has been maintained properly (i.e. the felt hammers and dampers have not dried up and hardened).

[flvegan]

7. How would I check the hammers and dampers?

Maybe my first question is what the heck are those things?

I'm not worried about getting ripped off (again, friend of a friend) but I want a quality item.

Thanks for the input.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

23. Hammers're the "inside" parts of the piano,--connect to the keys and play the strings hidden inside

thereby making the sound for a piano. They're visible when you lift the lid of the piano--the topmost part of the "upright" part of a piano--and peer down inside. They really do look like hammerheads attached to awkwardly curved beams of wood.

Dampers are also "innerd" bits of the piano, viewed the same way. They press against the strings and keep them from vibrating--the lowermost strings of the piano have no dampers, which is why they ring for so long when played. The rightmost pedal is called the "damper pedal" (also the "sustain pedal") because when you press it down, all the dampers lift up from the strings, allowing them to vibrate off of one another and sustaining the sound of a note even after you release the key.

[quip]

2. You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish

[chromotone]

4. What's the difference between roast beef and pea soup?

Anybody can roast beef.

[quip]

9. I'd steak my reputation on it!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

27. What do you get when you drop a piano down a mine shaft?

A flat minor.

[quip]

29. You'd better C sharp or B flat!

[LeftyMom]

3. Where the heck would I put a piano?

:P

For your Mom?

[flvegan]

16. Yep, little gifty gift.

[LeftyMom]

22. I'm really tempted to go dig up the subthread about how you should buy her things

and what a useless ingrate you are, from that Christmas where you were making a donation in her name someplace. :rofl:

[BarenakedLady]

5. I know crim son plays (or used to)

She may be able to help.

:shrug:

[flvegan]

19. Thanks. I'll drop her a PM as I don't see her around too much.

[Richardo]

6. "You ask a lot of questions for someone from New Jersey"

:D

[flvegan]

21. Bow it.

It's just like a song we used to sing on Thanksgiving when I was a little girl. Everybody would come over to my house all dressed up pretty and everything, and my mother would make the turkey with stuffing and for dessert, we'd have the traditional Banana Rosannadanna cake. Before we ate, we'd bow our heads, bow your head, Jane, come on, bow your head. Bow it. BOW YOUR HEAD!!

[Richardo]

30. :D

:D

[momto3]

8. My husband is a pianist.

He claims that used pianos are just as good as new. Also, they are generally much cheaper. When looking at used pianos, make sure that it looks to be in good shape (not too many dents or scratches)and that none of the keys stick. It would be good to take someone with you that plays so that they could try it out. Used Steinways or Baldwins are probably the best, but will still cost more than some other brands.

Piano tuning is usually a couple of hundred dollars.

Hope this helps.

Tracy

[flvegan]

12. It does help, thank you.

I'm leaning towards used on this after reading the responses.

[SacredCow]

10. Lots of things to consider...

I'll echo a previous reply, in that Kawais and Yamahas offer fantastic bang for the buck. Even those have gone up in value (my S/O's late partner was a piano teacher and bought a Kawai grand in the 1980's for about 8 grand. He passed away in 2001 and the piano was sold in 2002 for about 17 grand. A good quality piano will set you back, but with good care you won't lose your shirt when you sell it.

What about an electric one? Seriously- they make full-size ones with weighted action keys now that mimic any number of tones. They sound fantastic, and they're MUCH less expensive.

[flvegan]

13. Here's the thing, in re electric

It's a gift for my mom. She's a traditionalist. Also, if there are more than 2 or 3 buttons on it I'm going to get calls at night on how to work the fool thing.

Thanks for the info.

[SacredCow]

17. gotcha...

Some of them probably don't have many more than 2 or 3 buttons, truth be told- I'm not talking about the ones with all of the rhythms, sounds, and such built in. The ones that were in the music building at my university, literally, had an on/off button and a volume knob- that was it.

But I hear ya on the tradionalist part. An upright would be a good choice, and as I said- if the time comes that you want to sell it, you may get a sizeable chunk of the investment back.

As for tuning, I haven't had my baby grand tuned in some years (BAD SacredCow) since nobody's playing it. But I think it ran about 3 to 4 hundred bucks each time.

[supernova]

11. Here's what i do know

... Besides figuring out what size she needs ...

Sit down and play, get used to the feel of the instrument and decide if she likes it or not. Some are very soft to touch, producing a tone with very little force, others need more force. She needs to decide what she can live with. The easiest way is to pick out a piece that she enjoys playing and see how it plays on different pianos.

Look for solid wood cabinetry, not veneer. It will sound better. Subjective, but being able to produce a pleasing tone is a good incentive to continue playing.

Used pianos are as good as other used instruments, as long as they have been well maintained.

A good piano tuner is worth his/her weight in gold.

[flvegan]

15. They use veneer for some pianos?

That's news to me. Solid wood...got it. Thanks!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

14. Used pianos are fine--they've already been broken in, so to speak.

Just make sure they're not *too* broken in. :) All the keys should work. Full-sized upright if you can manage it, not a midget spinet/console like I've got--the sound on a full-sized is much closer to that of a "real" piano and less like that of a harpsichord. Steinway and Baldwin are probably the best names, top-notch, but Yamaha and Kawai are both quite good, and cheaper.

As for tuning, my spinet is tuned about 2-3 times a year, and ideally I would have it done more often (4 a year, probably), since the sound is sketchy once it gets close to tuning time. The larger the piano the more involved and expensive tuning will be, but I think larger pianos (as long as they're not like concert-caliber grands constantly and intensely being used) hold a tuning better than smaller, twitchy pianos like mine. It costs $70 a pop here for my spinet to be tuned--a full-sized upright will cost more than that, but not like a grand or anything would. All tuning, of course, is highly individual according to humidity, etc., so what holds here would not hold somewhere else, even perhaps in a different room in my own house.

Bring someone along who knows pianos and plays, if you can, to test the piano--all pianos ideally will be played upon and tested for sound quality, etc. before being bought. Have fun--piano dealerships are a blast!

[flvegan]

18. That's good info, thanks.

I guess I need to research the size differences so I know I'm getting the full sized version.

So if someone were going to be playing this for (likely, at least) a couple hours every day or every other day, 4x a year tuning would be about right?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

25. Probably.

Most pianos that are tuned frequently are being played intensely, by master pianists--you ever seen some of 'em at work? Poor instruments take a beating! Also, masters are very sensitive to sound changes as the tunings "loosen," and pianos played by more than one master in succession will be individually tuned for each master, even, meaning those pianos can be tuned more than once a day! 4x a year is fine for whomever you're buying this for, I'm sure.

If you're going to any sort of piano "dealership," you can always get help from the salesmen there--I think a lot of people who go into selling pianos are musicians--usually pianists--themselves who know a lot about the instruments in more than just a marketing way. Usually honest people. :)

[flvegan]

26. The guy owns the place

and he's some super-certified tuner. Been doing it for like 40 years. He's the friend of a friend, and I've talked to him once already, so my confidence level is high.

Thanks again!

[WritingIsMyReligion]

28. Sounds like a great person to have on your side.

I'm sure everything will go very well--what a great gift you're giving someone!

:)

[flvegan]

31. Thanks.

It's for my mom. The one thing she wants, refuses to spend the money on. Too expensive, blah blah blah.

I'll show her!!!1!

[Burma Jones]

20. We inherited an upright Steinway, and it is not so great

so, at least in our case, brand names aren't a guarantee. We pay $100 to our kids' piano teacher for tuning and maintenance annually, I think we're getting a break, so I would guess around $125 - $150.

Used Pianos are a very good idea, just get someone else to move it, it's no coincidence that many early slapstick films featured piano movers.

I would try out a piano myself to ensure I like the feel of it, the action of the keys etc.

[flvegan]

24. Oh, I've already decided to pay a pro to move it.

The dealer that I'm linked with has someone that does all his moving work, so I'll go with them.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

32. Maintaining a consistent humidity level in the room helps.

Your piano won't need to be tuned as often as it would if the humidity fluctuates. If it's a pretty dry room, you'll want to keep a humidifier going. This will also prevent soundboard cracks and glue joint openings. If it's too humid, your instrument can become mildewed or in extreme cases warped; so you'd want a dehumidifier in the room.

You'll also want to keep the instrument away from radiators or air conditioning vents. :hi:

[Blue-Jay]

33. My advice.

I'll make comparisons to autos as much as I can, since you like cars.

Most upright pianos are OK, depending on how they're going to be used. If you're a performance aficionado, you can certainly tell the difference between brands (makes/models), but if you're just using it to get from here-to-there then you probably don't need to spend a bunch of dough.

Much like choosing a car, it's best to hire a mechanic (pianist) to give it a drive. You can probably find a senior piano major at your local university who will spend the afternoon with you (for beer money...30 bucks maybe) trying out different new and used pianos. They will know more about the action/sound/price/brand/intonation than you will, so you'll need to trust their judgment. Look for a performance major, because they're more picky.

Tuning: Again that depends on the usage. A professional pianist is naturally more finicky about the tuning than a weekend enthusiast. Who you hire to tune the piano honestly depends on the skill level of the performer. If the pianist is an "occasional driver", contact your local high school music department or the nearest music store for a reference. If your pianist is looking to "race with the big guns", then you should send an email to the nearest college piano professor for a reference. (Depending on your location, they might even recommend the same person)

The piano tuning professional should show up with a "strobe tuner", and not some crappy LED guitar tuner. I've never known a piano mechanic to have anything other than a high quality strobe tuner, so you probably don't need to worry about that.

Frequency of maintenance: That really depends on the player. Just like a car, a piano needs more frequent attention if the player is especially hard on the instrument (a "banger") or practices a lot. If the pianist is skilled, they will know precisely when some attention is needed for their instrument. Trust the musician to know this, as there is no definite schedule to follow regarding tuning/other maintenance.

Hope that helps.

*disclaimer - I'm not a pianist, but I'm a musician with a couple of degrees, and I know a few things. You'll likely get more (better) information from a piano professional.

[YDogg]

34. I'm an organ man.

:shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

36. Cool! I could use some spleen advice.

[theredpen]

35. The black keys cost extra, but totally worth it