Do you think my layoff was handled correctly?

[bertha katzenengel]

First, in January, when bonuses & raises should have happened, the office of the chair sent a memo: "um, we're reevaluating our financial position and will have news by mid-March." That's bad enough.

Then, last Friday, another memo: "we're about done, look for info next week."

Never in my wildest dreams did I think their solution would be layoffs.

On Wednesday, the DC office administrator - whom I love - came to my desk and said, "why don't you come with me." We went to an eighth floor conference room. There was one other person there: the staff supervisor (my immediate boss). Soon as I saw her and before I sat down, I said emphatically, No. The office boss said "I'm afraid there's no easy --" I cut her off and said No..

She said, "now this is a layoff, you're not being fired, and you're not the only one." I can't say what troubles beset the firm, but I understand them. That is, I know, but I can't tell it. If I look from the outside, I can understand these cuts. But jesus christ. *weep*

I will receive two weeks' severance in addition to my last paycheck, and the firm will pay my first month's COBRA - to me that's more valuable than the severance.

After the discussion, they told me I could go to my desk and gather my things but suggested I let them do it because of the state I was in. I'd pulled myself together but was still weepy. They said, we'll go get your purse, keys, jacket, etc., and we'll send you the rest by courier. That worked fine (although the stuff prob'ly won't arrive until Monday).

So far everyone I've talked to has said that was a shitty way to do it. Not necessarily the way I was told and the exit interview, but that the hammer just dropped like that.

Do you see any flaws in how my layoff was handled? Is it normal?

And -- any HR people here? Your input would be especially valuable.

Thanks

[Gormy Cuss]

1. Some companies frog march laid off employees out the door.

That's right, with no chance to gather their own belongings (other than purses and coats.) I think they handled it fairly well in your place given the trend these days. Usually while the employee is in the exit interview the IT staff shuts off all access to corporate systems including email and clears authorized access keys to the building or parking lot too. The theory is that it's best to get the ex-employee off the premises without a chance to steal or sabotage.

The notice in January was a carefully crafted warning. They were probably hoping that a few people would leave on their own and save them the expense of severance.

[bertha katzenengel]

6. Yeah, they had completely locked me out electronically --

on the way home, I called my voice mail to record only this innocuous message: "Please dial zero and the receptionist will assist you." I couldn't get in: my password had been changed.

I know they did it the way they had to. That firm is very, very tight about risk management.

Thankfully I wasn't frog-marched. But also thankfully they took me down a back elevator. The facilities manager and the records manager carried the stuff I'd asked them to gather. Then they gave me hugs.

[madrchsod]

30. not that bad

i`ve been laid off a million times and i`d say they were pretty nice about it...

[RadiationTherapy]

2. That is exactly what happened to many of my "superiors" at AT&T

I worked at Universal Card Services in Jax, FL and they did layoffs/buyouts in 1995 or 1996. It was exactly the same except many were offered buyouts.

All the way down to the "we'll clean out your desk for you".

I imagine what happened to you on the day of was pretty typical. I am not sure about the lead up.

[bertha katzenengel]

7. "it's pretty common" number two -- thanks, RT.

:hi:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

3. oh dear.

:hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

8. Tuesday, you're good to me.

:hug:

[pitohui]

4. it sounds absolutely standard to me

i honestly don't know what else they could do to give people the clue that they were going to be laid off and still not set off a panic of people running for the door back in january -- seems you probably had to know in your heart it was coming -- any time you are not given a bonus or a raise on schedule, any time a large group of you are not given a bonus or a raise on schedule, it's a message that you need to brush off your resume

as far as the actual termination -- well, it sounds perfectly standard to me, most companies these days have a security guard take you out so that you won't fuck up the computer or something while you're upset -- sounds like they did get your purse, keys, coat, which is the important stuff

so to me it sounds normal, people just get too stressed and freaky in these days of sabotage and workplace shootings

i know of a company that didn't take these precautions and one or more of the bitter employees completely destroyed all records of the company retirement program, i don't know how or if they were ever able to recover the information but at the time of my visit to the company they still had not worked it out

i know you are one of the good guys and hope you get a better job soon

[bertha katzenengel]

9. "it's pretty common" # three. thank you, pitohui

I'm glad to know this is common procedure.

:hi:

[Tyler Durden]

5. I got fired by a FedEx overnight package while disabled.

Any termination sucks, but yours was not bad as they go. There's no easy way to do it, and standard procedure these days is no notice and you get the two weeks as severance. I got bupkiss, but my company really sucked anyway.

I completely grok how you feel though.

[bertha katzenengel]

10. Shit, Tyler!

Did they fire you because you were disabled? God, I hope not. I'm sure you have a lawyer if so.

You grok. Been a while since I heard that. :)

BTW, what is that picture in your sig line? Jesus throwing stuff to dogs?

[Tyler Durden]

12. The picture is Diogenes.

It is written that Diogenes, greatest of the School of Cynic, traveled with a lamp a night looking for an honest man. It is said he ate mostly onions (at bottom left), and lived in a cracked wine barrel. This portrait depicts a story whereby Diogenes was found by a group of dogs, who showed their stoicism by standing guard over him. Diogenes, true to form, paid them little notice.

Yep. BECAUSE I broke my arm and couldn't drive, they limited my disability to one month (without telling me) and fired me for "...failure to come to work..." The Department of Labor got me my VACA pay, and six months worth of hospitalization which, although one month was already paid for, they back dated it to the beginning of the month.

[LanternWaste]

11. it sounds...

It sounds as though the layoff was handled in a most professional and courteous manner (as professional and courteous as these things can be). It probably doesn't make you feel any better by me saying that I believe (all other things being equal) that it sounded perfectly normal.

BUT-- you weren't fired. Not knowing the company or the industry, I will hazard this one suggestion (and don't hate me for it). Call your immediate supervisor in a week or so (whenever you feel you won't break down) and actually thank them for how they handled it. A week after that, send a Thank You card to your boss's boss saying approximately the same thing.

I was Fired from a job in 2000 for gross negligence. I felt the termination was uncalled for, but it happened. Yet, as I've never been one to burn my bridges, I did exactly as I'm suggesting you do. Eighteen months later, I was offered my position back, and six months after that, I received a promotion.

Please don't burn any bridges, Bertha (not that you've indicated you would, but still...). Allow yourself some time to emotionally adjust to this and then (and only then) begin making the serious decisions.

All my best thoughts, prayers and wishes are coming at you. :hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

15. I won't burn bridges. You give EXCELLENT advice, and I'm

going to follow it. And thank you for keeping me in your thoughts. :hug:

[BuelahWitch]

13. When I was laid off by Verizon Wireless

they called all of us in around the first part of Feb. to tell us the call center was closing the end of March. If we stayed and worked out the two months, we got a month severance. The shitty thing was, they tried to get people fired during that waiting period so they would not get the bonus (and succeeded with a few of them). I was called in and given a warning for hanging up on a "dead air" call. They didn't fire me, and I would just repeat a stupid speil "I cannot hear you, if you can hear me, please call..." whenever I got another one.
I would much rather they had walked me out the door in Feb. Those last two months were horrible.

[bertha katzenengel]

16. what a shitty thing to do!!

i don't know how you could stand it. :(

[Xithras]

14. The last time I was laid off...

...my boss, who I had been on good terms with, asked a few of us out to lunch. He broke it to us over enchiladas. We had no prior notice, and weren't allowed back in the building after lunch.

I don't think there's any "normal" way to handle a layoff. Some states have mandatory reporting requirements when the number is high enough, but even that just directs how they report it to the government. Unless you're in a job with an actual contract that specifies a layoff procedure, or are in some sort of government job that has legislated layoff notice requirements, you can be laid off however they want to do it.

During the dotcom boom I was once laid off with no notice at all. We got to work and found chains around the door handles. There was a note taped to the inside of the door glass notifying employees that the company had shut down, and giving us an 800 number to call for severance check information. Since the company had filed bankruptcy and some creditors had already begun attempting to seize assets, we had to get in line. We got no severance, no COBRA, and when I did finally receive my last paycheck over a year later, it was only $400 of the roughly $3000 I was owed...that was the court ordered "settlement".

We knew the company was having difficulties, but when we'd left work the previous Friday everything had seemed OK, and there were meetings and normal affairs scheduled for the following week. The owners had people come in over the weekend and clear the offices out, so it was just an empty shell when we came back on Monday. Now THAT is a crappy way to lay people off.

[bertha katzenengel]

17. Your tag line is interesting, especially in light of

what LanternWaste had to say. :)

Seriously. I have begun to wonder if there are any laws governing this procedure. I don't want to waste Congress's time - they're wasting enough of it as it is - but I really do wonder . . . .

[Xithras]

20. I think LaternWaste is spot on with not burning bridges with prior employers.

Not only because re-hiring is a possibility, but because reference letters can be enormously helpful. The same guy who took me out to lunch and laid me off over enchiladas wrote me another letter of reference two years later that practically gushed over my abilities. He stated quite bluntly in the letter that he would have re-hired me without question if the companies finances had permitted it. He didn't have to write that letter two years after the layoff, and would not have if I'd made a big deal of it. Burning bridges with employers almost invariably hurts you more than it does the employer.

My tag line is a reference to starting over in life, to cutting your ties with a failed history in order to start anew. Burning your bridges can be an effective way to keep from sliding back into a bad situation, and light your way down a new path. It's also a Don Henley quote :)

[China_cat]

27. That's one of the issues unions usually negotiate into the contract.

When you have a union, that is.

[asthmaticeog]

18. Actually, the hammer dropping just like that is pretty normal.

Which is not to say that "normal" isn't shitty, it totally is.. But that's typically how it's done, you're in the dark about it, then you get told and hustled out the door all in one shot.

But more importantly, I'm really sorry to hear you got laid off, Bertha. I hope you find something soon. :hug:

[bertha katzenengel]

21. thank you so much

everyone's help here is invaluable - and the support is unbelievable. :hug:

[graywarrior]

19. No.

I hate them. Even tho other companies have treated employees far worse, your company still sucks.

[bertha katzenengel]

22. I know that wasn't meant to invoke a laugh, but it did.

Nto because of what you said. I hate it so much. But because of your succint descriptin of your opinion. :thumbsup:

[graywarrior]

24. Ha! I hope they get hemorrhoids.

[rox63]

23. Your experience sounds pretty normal to me

I've been laid off a couple of times, and it went very much like yours. Except usually they would take a group of people into the conference room and tell all of them at the same time that they were being laid off.

:hug: to you, and good luck in your job search.

[China_cat]

25. That sounds more reasonable than my husband's last

'layoff'. The company was sold. The new owners came in on Friday afternoon and told everybody that they had nothing to worry about, that everybody still had jobs for at least 30 days and probably up to 90...until they could figure out how they wanted to handle things.

Monday morning they arrived to find the doors locked and a note saying they were all out of jobs. When they were finally allowed in to get personal items it was one at a time under guard.

[ThomCat]

26. At my client's office

Security sometimes shows up to escort you to HR and then out of the building. You are not allowed to go back to your desk for any reason. If there is something there that you desperately need you have to have Security or your supervise go through your stuff to find it and bring it to you.

Not all layoffs are handled that way, but enough that everyone gets nervous when the security guards come to your floor.
:(

[Longhorn]

28. I'm so sorry

and hope that you find another job quickly that is even better than this one! Good luck! :hug:

[Lady President]

29. They handled it pretty well

I've been laid off twice and was at a co. that laid off of bunch of people another time.

#1: Somewhat similar to your experience. The managers brought groups of a few people to various conference rooms to tell us. While we were culled from the herd, the remainder of the staff were kept in the cafeteria. We cleaned out our desks. Once everyone who was laid off was out of the building, the rest of the people could return to their desks.

#2: 100+ of us were told that there was a meeting in the warehouse. Once there we were told that we were laid off and given a little pep talk. When we left the warehouse, there were 5-6 police officers to walk us in small groups to our desks, take passes, and escort us to the parking lot. My name is in the middle of the alphabet, so I waited outside the building for hours before it was my turn to pack up. It was horrible!

#3: "The Extermination-Termination" I worked at a company that told us that they were doing a precautionary extermination over the weekend, and gave us all boxes to put bring home our personal items, so nothing would be ruined when they tented the place. On Monday half the company was missing. They received calls over the weekend that they lost their jobs.

Anyway, being laid off is awful. There isn't a good way to do it, but at least they treated you with some dignity. Best of luck finding something new and better.


:hug:

[Godhumor]

31. Yeah this was a standard layoff

With the exception that you weren't laid off on a Friday (The enw standar under the theory that disgruntled employees are far more likely to calm down if they are removed with a two-day period before anyone is in the building again. It is also why, no matte rhow much it sucks, a lot of mass lay-offs happen right before holidays.).

I would say they handled it pretty well, and the HR staff did about as good of a job under the circumstances.

As far as your other question about Congress getting involved; unless you have representation (unions) or a contract with stipulations, all jobs are "At will". You can leave for any reason at any time and the company can remove you for any reason at any time (Within reason, of course. People can attempt to prove that termination was for retaliatory reasons, etc.). Since lay-offs don't technically single out one or two people in most companies; there is really no recourse under law.

[bertha katzenengel]

32. They did show me a list of others (no names) and their ages, to "prove"

that it wasn't a case of age discrimination. I'm 45. Some were younger, some were older. Unfortunately they laid off a 62-year-old woman. :(

[Godhumor]

33. It stinks when "numbers" have to fight people n/t